HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, June 13th.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVI, Issue 1596, 2 July 1861, Page 4

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, June 13th.

STEAM COMMUNICATION. Mr. Fi„th moved " Thaja Select Committee he appointed to consider and report on the Steam Postal arrangements existing between fhe Australian Colonies and the several Provinces of New Zealand. Committee to consist of Mr. Russell, Mr. Wood, Dr. Featherston, Mr. Rhodes, Mr. Cookson, Mr. Crucroft Wilson, Mr. Kettle, and Mr. Dillon Bell, with power to call for persons and papers." He did 0"t intend to occupy fbe House long with the observations he had to make touching this mo , don. Steam communication was a subject on which most hon. members bad their > minds made up. But our steam communication was very imperfect ; many of the provisions in the original contract had never been executed. A survey had not been held on any o,f the Company's vessels, to ascertain whether, tbey were capable of running 8 knots an hour; and there were a great niany other things which required to be'looked into. It was desirable that the, House should see whether some improvement could be effected i and, if the Company did not carry out their contract they ought to be made do so. He bad another object in view in in-i troducing this subject. His opposition to the present system of steam communication was on account of the very unfair manner in which the Province of Auckland had . been used. In many instances the Aucklaud postul communication had been anticipated by sailing vessels. The steamer with the late mail left Sydney on the 13t1i,of May, and it was' fifteen days before the Intelligence reached Auckland by this com munication. A schooner left Sydney three days after the mail steamer, and arrived here before the mail. It was high time an end was put to this state of things. Mr. Firth shewed that, so far as Auckland was concerned, the Inter* provincial communication was equally usdefec tive, inasmuch as tbeother' ; Provinces had a fortnightly communication, while Auckland communication, generally speaking, was about orice a month. If 'they looked' for a moment „t the", real position 'of the Province of Auckland, and the amount it paid, they would agree with him that an alteration should be made as soon as posible./JT/^e . jncoine of the revenues of 1859, out of whichjthe postal service was . paid, was £178,000, and the proportion which Aucklaud iConttibuted .was". £61,000, so that Auckland contributed one-third portion of that Contributed by the whole Colony. The Post Office revenue in total was £8,900, towards which the Pro* vince of Auckland contributed £2,700, (he spoke in round numbers) or nearly one-third. The number of letters he found was 32,800 which passed through the office in 1859, out of which tlie number put down to Auckland was 11,300? which in this respect was also a third. When hon.,members considered what Auckland .conti ibuted,,tp the (/U.stoni« arid the. Post Office they'mußt conclude Chat she was entitled to her fair share of postal .communication.' He felt perfectly certain that no hon. member representing Auckland would ask for the slightest injustice-being done to the other ports of the Colony ; but at the same time they were justified in asking for a reasonable, amount' of fair play.' -If- he thought the remodelling ofthe present system would cause a single injustice 'to any Province, he would not ask for it. He had no wish to put any of them in the same position as Aucklaud had.been for the' last four, months. . iMotion .seconded. by Mr, O'Neill. .Mr. Stafford cqmplimented the bon. member for having taken up tbe/Bubject at that period of the session. The. fact was that no arrangement could be made which gavo. satisfaction for a given number of years. A report o.f the Postmaster-General was all but completed .which would deal with this question, arid stipply later returns tban [those quoted by jthe hou, member. The said report was complete except some returns from distant offices, which; were expected daily. He begged to :Snggeßt .that. the names of Mr, Ormorid and Mr. Domett.be, added to the CommiU'ee. : Hawkes Bay was unrepresented. ; Nelson had nqifepresentative member as he (Mr. Stafford was supposed to represent the government. Mr. R. Graham said that Taranaki had no member on the Committee. Was that ' Pro,---i, vju.ee to be.blotled out altogether? All thai) ' Auckland' wished for was fair play; ' Mr. o'RbEKE, ! saw no member for the West Coas,t on the Committee, and. begged to support We i n6iniriation of a member for Taranaki. » '■'■ Mr. Wood: if hon. members went on in that way,' they Wood soon include the whole House. He ( Mr.' W.) supported the position taken -by Mr. 1 Firth in regard to Auckland paying her third, and receiving 1 but little' benefit. * There was a Committee to .which they could refer private grievances '.in existence, this, was & Committee required to investigate a public grievap.ee. Mr., Firth said he had been guided in his Ve'lectori by ; the amount ecah province paid to the revenue." The Standing Orders would .not allow him to place: more that members on' thV l ,Con*m^^ he (Mr: W.) 'had no objection to a member for Hawke's Bay being added. If they put two members op .foY Nel son lie should ask for six- for Auckland The case was so, clear as regarded Auckland that ihalf.a.dozen men, of business cpulcf ..soon ,set,tle it satisfactorily. ■,-.-,.. „ :.:. „ ■ .7 Mri Dotoferx thought it was only doubtful justice for Auckland, because the large Conimissariat expenditure enabled her to contribute v larger share to the revenue; Wellington | Nelson, Wanganui and Taranaki were equal! 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„ that the name of Mr. Curtis be added to thi j Committee., Mr. Stafford did uot know from what sourc< the hon. member for Parnell had derived his '» information. He was not aware that Auckland f- was paying one penny for the transmission ol letters from New Zealand to the Australian J Colonies. The Home Goverument paid _ £14;000 for the inter-colonial service. The 0 Colony contributed £10,000 a year for the ' inter-provincial mail service. This Colony was paying nothing towards tire service between 3 Auckland and Australia. He "thought bon. * members should be careful lest tbe Colony should be called upon to pay one-half, or 1 £7,000 towards the Australian branch. New j Zealand was originally omitted from the steam . service to Great Britain, until Mr. Sewell pre. : vailed upon the Home Government to supple ment the contract, not one penny of which was * paid by the Colony. In considering this ' question there were other places, such as Marlborough, Napier, and Southland, which ought j to be considered. Mr. D. Bell did not know bow tbey had [ been placed by the bead of the Government. When tbe Home Government entered iuto 1 arrangements in the year 1856, in accordance ' with the terms of minute of 1855, New Zealand ' was charged witb a pert'mn of tbe cost of Con- ' veyance of mails between England and the • Colony. By some means New Zealand bad i- been omitted from the original contract with the Oriental Company— the Government entered into a subsequent contract, which he considered binding. He protested against the Committee being constructed to represent particular iuterests or particular districts. He was satisfied with the Committee — he thought it was a fair one, and considered they ought to avoid everything like partizauship on this general question. Mr. Dick was in favor of a full investigation, as it. was important to the whole Colony. The hon.members for Auckland complained much, but they they should do as tbey had done at Otago, if they studied theii own interests, namely, throw the Coleman Company overboard. They found that it was no service whatever to j them at Otago. He deprecated the idea of sailing vessels for postal communication at this j day— that was gone by. . Mr. Williamson observed, that Auckland ! had shewn that she appreciated the advantages of steam .-communication. The Provincial Council had last session voted a sum of £3,500, I in order to co-operate with the other Provinces in the improvement of the service. One of the duties of tbe Committee would be to see if they could make such arrangements as would do away the Coloman Company. At present, it was no advantage to Otago, nor to Auckland, nor yet to arty other province, except Nelson, ifor whose especial advantage it was established and* existed. It was fouod last sessiou a very difficult matter to get from under the Ooleman Company; but it what the hon. member stated in bringing tbe question before the House was true, in reference to the non-fulfilment of the conditions of the contract, there was an end to that difficulty. He (Mr. VY.) corroborated the arguments of Mr. Fifth, relative to Auckland paying a third of the inter-provincial sum, and getting the least benefit. He agreed with Mr. 'Bell,' that the arrangements were binding on ibe Imperial authorities. Mr. Firth in reply' stated, bis plan would be to have a duplicate line, oue vessel to be at. Melbourne, in readiness for the mail, and to sail to Otago, Nelson, Wellington, Napier and Auckland. Under these arrangements, Napier aud Wellington would become central ports ; then via Nelson and Otago, conveying the mails to Melbourne. He would place the Airedale at the service of Taranaki, Marlborough and Wanganui for the inter-provincial conveyance, so as to give equal advantages to all. Motion put and^carried. Mr. Domett gave notice to move, tbat tbe hou. the Speaker, Mr. Ormond, aud Mr. Curtis, be added to the Committee. . On ..this notice being brought forward the names of the Speaker and Mr. Curtis' were omitted and Mr. Ormond aud Mr. Domett added distribution of arms and ammunition. Mr. Carter moved—" For a Return of tbe quanlity ahfl J description bf all arms and ammunition issued by the General Government fort-he use of any Militia or Volunteer Corps* in the Colony, specifying the places to whicb they have been sent, and the date of such issue; also, a Return ofall arms and ammunition now in store, and available fur such purposes; also, the same amount paid by the Government or for which it is liable, in respect of any arms and ammunition purchased or ordered on account of the colony." Mr. Stafford said the motion, was a proper one, but tbe information required would, if published, cat two ways, and would giveinformation to those whom it might not be desirable should know what arms there were at any particular place. The hon. member could not say into whose, hands any paper laid ou the table of this House might get. Mr. O'Neill objected to tbe motion. In the present state of affairs 'it.' was desirable such information should be kept as secret as possible. Hon. members should go to the Government office and collect such Information as .they thought proper. ■. " \ Mr. Carter said it wasbetterias far as publicity was -concerned, that the Natives should know tbe settlers to be armed, thai) suppose that they bad no arms at all. He desired' this information, becau«e he belonged to a Native district, containing 1500 Europeans, to which, not a single rifle bad yet been sent. He wished : to know whether, they would be supplied in ca^e of an outbreak. ' FRIDAY, JUNE 14. courts of bankruptcy. ! : - " ' Mr. 'Stafford on rising to move — " For leave to bring in a Bill to establish' Courts of I Bankruptcy in the Colony of New Zealaud;" said, this Bill had been prepared inconsequence of the wish of many hon. menders, expressed -. flu the two previous'; sessions, jhjU such a measure should be submitted to this House forcon- ; sideratibn.7 Petitions had been received at different times from Chambers of Commerce, &c, in different parts of the colony, in favour ' of such a measure, and one had been received > agaiHst'it. As far as Ministers could ascertain, ■ pubiico^jbiOn^Was very much divided on" : this; subjeiit.' '" 'The Bankiii'g Interests especially '• were yery promeutly opposed, to it inthe \pre- ! sent- .circumstances of the, colony."- iJut s the i Government baying promised to (bring such a i Bill in, bad, after consulting the best authorities, • and anulagoHS measures, prepared this Bill as i in -its; opinion, the most suitable measure, if the ;•■ 'House considered' one necessary ; but the Government did not give a decided opinion that >■■■ at" present it ; Was absolutely/ necessary.; The t Ho Use might wish- to delay oousideiing this j subject at ;presen t, because there is rioiy ; sitting in mother Country a Commission to iriqiiife I into andjeport on this subject, whds'e' Report, if made, had hot yet reached this country: IJe !.. ,npw. moved,for ; leave tb brjng in a Bill to estabblish Courts of Bankruptcy in the Colo'uy bf New.Zealapdj, 7 : " .! r ./.. y v> ...».,: -y :

c Mr.. Richmond seconded the motion Agreed to. c Bill brought in and read a first time. s Mr. Stafford moved that it be ordered tt 1 be printed, and to be read a second time oi f Tuesday next. i Mr. Russell said, the Colonial Secretarj I had given sufficient reason why they shouk > postpone the consideration of a measure of sucli t importance at present. The subject had rei ceived much attention at home, and was being i considered in the House of Commodfe. As the result of that would have oue complete measure, I embodying every provision requisite for dealing with the subject. In thi." colony, and in Auckland in particular, there was no need for Bankruptcy laws. A desire had been expressed by the Southern parts of the colony for such a measure, but at present all the requirements of the coloHy might be met bj a much simpler measure. In Auckland there had not been a single case of oppression under the existing law. He thought they had Couits enough already without establishing another. There was the Resident Magistrates' Courts, District Courts, a Supreme Court, and they were to have a Court of Appeal. A simple measure, like that proposed last session, with some modifications, would be sufficient for the present wants of the colony without the expensive machinery here proposed. Mr. Fox said, the request of the Southern Provinces was Based on this fact. An Act was proposed last session, though not brought before the House, simply proposing certain pnh visions by which debtors might whitewash, themselves -but affording no machinery by wlif6ff creditors could obtain for distribution- the property of debtors, which should be the most important ingredient of a Bankruptcy Law. The people of Wellington were not desirous of having an extended and cosily system as that at home, but wished to have some simple machinery by which creditors as well as debtors might deiive advantage, vii, by the distribution of the property of the latter. .7 Mr. Richmond said, the hon. member for the City of Auckland (Mr. Russell) had fallen into a mistake in speaking of the erection of a New , Court. The duties were rather proposed to be "added to the other functions of existing Judges. But it would be for the House to decide on this point, hy the provisions for it whicb they voted in the Estimates. Government had not intended to add to our enormous mass of judicial apparatus...-- ■'.';.,'.• Ms. Brandon trusted this Bill would not be pressed beyond the second reading; but would introduce some such measure as that proposed last session, requiring debtors and creditors to make arrangements amongst themselves for the relief of honest debtors. There was, also, an Act required for an other matter. When the Relief of Debtors' Ordinance was passed, tbe Supreme Court had jurisdiction above £20, which up to £100 was afterward given to the District. Courts, and no provision, was made for debtors takeri in execution under their prbvi I sions to obtain relief, because he was disabled . from : petitioning the Judge of the Supreme Court. He trusted, therefore, that a Bill would be introduced; similar to that proposed last session ; and, also, one by whicb debtors taken in execution uuder a District Court might obtain relief by petitioning the Judge of the Supreme Court in the same manner as formerly. Bill ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time on Tuesday next. THURSDAY, 20th JUNE. \ ROYVL PREROGATIVE OF MERCY. , Mr. Curtis asked the hon. the Colonial Secretary, if the Government have received any information of the Superintendent of Wellington having on a late occasion, exercised the Royal Prerogative of mercy. — The bon. member gwas stating that {he had received information, froth various quarters that on a 'late, occasion— Mr.. Fox objected on a point of order to the "introduction of any debateable. observations in asking -question: The question" as it appeared ou tbe paper was intelligible enough for the Government to understand it,' and therefore needed no further explanation. Mr. Curtis was not wishing to make it a matter of debate, he had intended to move for the papers, whjch were probably those which the lion, member for Welliugton (Mr. Featherston) .had given notice to move for. He would jusi state, that he wished to have explained — as to whether Government had any information of decision having been reversed by the Superintendent ef Wellington, without any consultation of the magistrates. Mr. ReNajll: It was all a hoax! : ;Th,e hon. Mr. C. W. Richmond replied to the question by stating that papers had been received, which seemed to shew tbat the Superintendent of Wellington had exercised the Prerogative of Mercy. FRIDAY, 21 st JUNE. •PBOTECTION AND COMPENSATION OF SETTLERS. i'Mr; Williamson said tbat tbe question he was about to put arose out ofthe resolutions recently passed' by the House; he did not wish it to be understood by the first part of his enquiry,' that he referred in any way to military operations. He thought it was desirable that the settlers .(especially those most likely to be affected should Government make up their minds t)iat ( negotiations hare failed, and tbat it. is necessary to resort to extreme means), should be assured as to what measures had been taken for their refuge in any places to which they might be suddenly called in. They could not tell when the. Government might bring their minds to the point, that negotiations bad •failed:, it might be a day,— a week,-ror three months,— but ibe settlers would feel more secure if they knew that, on such an alternative arising preparations had, been made for their reception, so' that in removing themselves from one farm of death they might uot be placed in circumstances which would lead to it in another form. Tbey recollected the hardships enduied by the settlers of Taranaki when . they were called in ; by ' the troops on their sudden „a rrival;.i ierei and' by the auimals tobe used by the troops, because of no provision having been made for their shelter prior to their arrival. , To this, question therefore, he, hoped tbe Govern'ment"v«>uld turn their attention if they had not already done so. ' With referei.ee to the second part of the question, this was the season of the year. wiien the farmers were em.plpyed in preparing for next season's crops, but owing to tbe resolutions bf the other night their minds would be in a-state of disquiet and'iflde' cigi.qn, as to whether , they should or should not "proceed in their further operations,; while tbe .question of peace or war was pendiug. If, however, they, beliaved, , tbaf, tbe Government contemplated making compensation for their losses, they yvouldfeejmore assured iv going on, and leaving the-taa'tter to its results. Then ■ -he thought it : was desirable that every representative in this 1 House of the Middle ai will 1 as *ofthe-Nortberu Island, should know 'from whence that compensation was^to come, from the Colonial or froiri the Imperial Government, These were'bis reasons' for putting this question so soon after tbe passiug .of the Resolutions lie therefore: begged to ask the ' Colonial Secri- , .tyry,,'- 1 Tbat in the event of its being considered;

- necessary to resort to force for the assertion ol Her Majesty's Sovereignity, what provision does His Excellency's Government propose tc 0 make for tbe protection ofthe lives and pro' si perties of Settlers in the Northern Islaand, Also, if property belonging to such Settlers f should be destroyed, whether it has been cou--1 sidered as to the source— lmperial or Colonial i — from which compensation for such losses • should be provided." f j Mr. Stafford said the wording of the quesj tion had misled the Government as to the in- , tention of the mover, for it appeared at first ■ sight to point to military operations. The hon. member having disclaimed that intention, the subjects contained in the question were very fitting' ones for auy hon. member to call the attentiou of the House to. Should circumstances arise requiring families to receive pro. tection apart from their homes, a similar ' protection would be furnished to that given to the Taranaki refugees at Nelsbn. If the hon. member thought that a sufficient amount of protection could not be afforded by the military power of the colony, it was perfectly open for any hon. member to bring that as a motion before the House, and any attempt to do so would receive no opposition from the Government. As to the sources of compensation, when compensation coald be fairly claimed, he had not the least hope that the Imperial Government would recognise any claim on ihem for that. The Government would not oppose the claim being made, but he did not believe it could be made with any success. The question had been raised last sessiou by the late hon.. member for Christchurch, and precedents had been examined without finding anything on which a claim on the Imperial funds could be based. But there was one precedent which had escaped observation last session. A very analogous case to that, of New Plymouth, or of any other place that might hereafter be so circumstanced, had occurred at the Cape, where, on individual claims for compensation being pointed out, the Home Government recognized the waste lands as a meaus of compensation, aud wastelands were accordingly granted, but not a fpenny from the Imperial funds, .and applications from New Zealand were no more likely tq meet with success than from the Cape or any other place. USURPATION OF THE BOYAL PREROGATIVE OF MEROY. ,- In. the absence of Dr. Featherston, Mr. Fitz» Herbert moved for copy of correspondence between the General Government and the Acting Resident Magistrate at Wellington, relative to the remission by the Superintendent of Wellington, of a line inflicted upon the Inspector of Police, together with a copy of the depositions in the case of Newey v. Aitcheson. Mr. G. Graham seconded the motion. Mr. Curtis said it had been his intention to move for these papers himself, as thoy would show that the Superintendent of Wellington had assumed most extraordinary power; had reversed the decision ofthe Bench , of Magistrates, without the slightest consultation, with them, or intimation of what he was about to, do till be wrote to demand the return of the .sum which he had previously directed. the Provincial Treasurer to pay. In that letter he stated that he had seen the depositions: but the Bench of Magistrates stated that he could not have done so unless surreptitiously. Mr. Fitzherbert said he would not follow the example ofthe hon. getlemen in prejudging the case, and in insinuations of a most serious kind of a person high in local authority stealing papers, a charge for which there was no founda-' tion whatever. The hon. member would better have consulted the dignity of the House by refraining from making any such remarks till the House had informed itself by examining these papers, and then,. if they were found to establish so grave an accusation, be would give the hon. member liberty to make what comments he pleased. The charge, however, was altogether a fioax.- Motion agreed to.