PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XV, Issue 1381, 18 November 1859, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

TuiisnAv, Btii November, 1859.

Present—All the members except Messrs Carter, Campbell, Fox, Handlev, Liidlam, Schullze, Watt, Wileock and Woodward. The Spcakci took the chair at 0 o'clock. The minutes of last meeting were read and confirmed. " ASS WII.SCX " ConUESPONDEXCE. The Pko. Secretary laid on the table certain correspondence, relative to the above vessel. bei>ly to lirs honor's messaoe- (No. 5.) Mr. WAKErrELD in moving pursuant to notice that the Message No. 5 from his Honor be tnken into consideration, made a long speech in which the lion, gentleman recapitulated all the arguments he had so frequently used in C'luneil -relative to the Superintendent being returned by only a few votes, not by an overwhelming majority the undue influence and unfair conduct that had been exercised at the election—to the public meetings held in this 'tow.n'.iwhich. so pointedly approved of what the Radical members had done—to the pledge so repeatedly given by the majority to resign when called upon by their constituents —to the hawk ing about of petitions by Messrs Quin and Edwards, and their gifts of left off wearing appare', and promises of abatement in rent to obtain signatures to such petitions—to the conduct of Marcus Collisson, who when examined before that House suffered suddenly from the loss of memory and knew nothing but had been put forward as a stalking horse, by the Government; for mil of the number whose want and destitution had been so forcibly urged upon them, and whoso cause Mr. Collisson was to advocate he ouly could speak With certainty us to six of his co-petitioners being in the state described, and one of them received from tbe Clerk of the Council the sum of eighteen shillings a week and his food. And Collisson himself had been offered employment which he had refused. That the resolution said to be passed at the meeting of the working classes was not carried, but, on the other bund met by ridicule. With regard to the Boomerang contract. Mr. Wakeficld contended that tbe Superintendent before entering into any sneb negociations, should have consulted that house and if he had uoue so, the Council would have iniormed him

t l iat the arrangernsnt he was almnt entering 1 in'o was one that could not be depended upon, aid fiat the conduct of Messrs. Evans and Chapman in this matter had led to the overthrow of the O'Sbannasv Ministry. In conclusion Mr. W. pointed out that the course (' c house should pursue with regard to the p. st expenditure was not to take simply what wera called the Estimates and Hassan Appropriation Act but to go into the whole of the past illegi.l expenditure and after a careful consideration of the various items, the Government for 80 much as they could conscientiously approre of. No doubt they would be met with the oft repeated but groundless accusation of stoping the progress of the province, but this was no more than could be expected. The following replj to His Honor's message was then moved "by Mr. Wakeficld. 'J be Council, having only considered the Superintendent's Blcssa-fc. No. 5, declining to cumply with the reqiesl of Council, to change his lixeciitive for one possessing the Council's confidence, feels that it would be in vain to waste their own time and t>iat of the puhlic any further in discussing a question of political principles with a Superinftident who does not hesitate to disavow all those principles which, he formerly professed, in order to maintain their of practical power fur.'the party to which be happens to belong. The Council has often, during the conflict of opinion between the Superintendent and itself recorded its views of many of the arguments and pretences for thwarting it, nojv advanced by his Honor. 'Jo one or two dtfeT points only, need it n.'iv direct its atta-iiion, -.

The members, win mm-'frifm the majority of this Council are pledged to resign their seats if called upon'to do. so by a majority of their constituents, after a full explanation'of the reasons for the request, and au opportunity of publicly defending themselves ; : birf<tbcy conceive that they are in no way bound to do so, eitherat the dictation of the minority of the Council, or at the suggestion of any Superintendent.—since they can only acknowledge that officer as one representative of the people, subject to the control of ihe others in Council assembled with 'regard to the public expenditure, and with regard to all other matters requiring fresh legislation at their hands.

Recent public meetings held in this Town at the icquest of its twelve members, and former public meetings held in the« Country Districts, have shown that the petion secretly" concocted and said to have teen signed by '1,593 inhabitants of the Province, anfl as secretly concurred iv, and forwarded to the Governor ty the Superintendent, does not in any way represent the sentiments of a majority oF the electors, by whom a majority of the Council adverse to the present Executive has been chosen to promote various popular reforms of existing grie>varices. On the'contrary, the public -meetings hare expressed continued confidence in their representatives, and, moreover, the Cotineil feels convinced that an investigation of the list of alleged signatures will 'resnlt in an exposure of the utter fictiousness of that appeal to the Governor, equally dUgiaceful to the active procurers 'of signatures, and tn the Superintendent who has lowered the dignity of his'office by assuming, for mere party ends, that the petition is a. truthful expression of the wishes 'of the community. So with regard to the exclusive meetings of the working classes described by the Superintendent; their only resfjlt has been one petition to. this Council, signed by fifty persons in the Wairarapa: and on a very full examination of the " one of their own body"'alluded tf>, —one Marcus Collisson, —his evidence, which has been printed, shews that the allegations of the petition are almost entirely wfthniit foundation in truth The meeting in Wellington, alluded to by the Superintendent, resulted in the plete rejection of the propositions, condemnatory of the Council, eirlanatiug : from the Warrarapa meetings. As to the Wanganui meeting the Council has been in no way informed, as none of the mem'iers for that district have attended its sittings since the recent adiuurntnent; and • whatever private information the Superintendent miv have received from thence has not been forwar led to the Council. The Council is, however, fully aware that the Superintendent and his party have kept up an expenditure of public m in'ey in that District, far exceeding the ainou it due to it in proportion to its population and c intributions. It is, therefore, very probable that person's deeply interested in the continnmce of such unfair expenditure, may have expressed opinions adverse to a Council, the iYiaj uity of which desires to secure a more just distribution by means of increased local powers for each distinct locality* The truest test of the people's confidence in the opinions of the majority, would have been the vacating of thei , seats and offering them* selves for re-elcctioi by the leaders of fiat majority, which mu<t h.ire followed on their acceptance ■of office, had the Superintendent pursued the only constitutional course byehoo-s ing new advisers from that majority. His avoidance of that si'npie test plainly proves that he and bis party shrink from the defeit which so straightforward a course would probably have brought on the n, and that both lie and they therefore use th ! ullice of Superintendent in order to retain their salaries and power Without the confidence of the peoples representatives-. The Council has, then, but one alternative left it: namely—to issettits legitimate powet as representing the p 'ople, I>y only indemnify* ing the present holders of office for so much o? their long continu.'d illegal 'expenditure as shall appear ou inveuigalion to be siich as the Council would have approved,- ff'not prevented ffom doing so by n 1 mg and arbitrary pioiogation ; and by also refusing fa' Ifiass any such new laws propose Ili it, as vofild place more power in the Uandvof piiblic 'ofllcersi whom it deliberately declared .unfit to'exercise the power already enjoyed by t'lem. On the General Government will then devolve the duty of vindicating the lawj by recovering for the" Provincial Treasury public money shall have been spent wjthoiit the sanction of the Legislature; and on the Superintendent will remain the responsibility of arresting the progress of the Province, by his detcrintiMtion to follow no other practice than tbedevising of successive pretences for keeping his owi* partizans and supporters in .ojjice, and for thwarting the adve/se opinions of a majority of the Council.

The Council will proceed to this unwelcome task, with a reluctance amine from the knowledge that an impartial exercise of his powers, and a consisieiu prtctice of hisformer priciples on the part of the Superintendent, and would hare rendered the task needless, and would have enabled more vigorous and successful measures to he eiiaoted for the progress of the Province, and the prosperity of the working" as well as other classes. But U cannot shrink from its clear duty to its constituents und the public. It must now endeavour, .by the only means left to it, to enforce the necessity of. those much wished for Reforms,— especially

greater economy, impartiality, and publicity in execution of public woiks, aiid in the disposal of the public lands which the majority of its members were sent into this Council by the people in order to urge upon the Superintendent. '"Mr. Carpenter' seconded the motion. The Pro. Sboiie.ta.uv,—Thought the whole proceedings of the gentlemen opposite, went to shew that so long as they could not get into power they would pass no estimates, and consider no measures whatever. .As to fuur or five members of the house going back to their constituencies beinp; regarded as a true test of confidence, he thought the superlative degree much ihore appropriate, and the house would remember that ho had moved not that simply four or -five should go back, but that the whole of them .should appeal to the electors. It was wrong to ftiy that the Superintendent shrunk from any fiUch test, when, his Eexoulive offered a so much larger one; for twenty-eight members seoking their constituencies was. a much larger and) better test, than simply four or five of their number doing so. Politicians at home did not consider it a proper lime to oppose a candidate, on his going to his constituency on accepting office, and in that opinion he coincided, and did not regard it as any true test. When he had oflcred himself for the Hutt he had expressly intimated. that in case he should be defeated he should immediately resign office, why was not he opposed, when with • all the J .boasted strength and popularity of the party opposite, it was an excellent opportunity to have gjot rid of one of His Honor's obnoxious Executive? The hop. gentleman (Mr. W.) had made it appear that it was through an act of kindness, that lie (Mr. Fitzherberi) bad been allowed to come into the House!—when it was a well known fact that for weeks the Hutt had been perambulated for a candidate to contest that election with him, hut one could not be found. Again, his election to the General Assembly by a large majority was a second vote of confidence by the constituency he represented, and in the principles of thalpolicy he upheld. He therefore protested most strongly that the community should be. left to suppose that he had been admitted through churity, to be fed in the poli Ucal soup kituhen of the lion, gentlemen opposite. He begged to remind him that he (MrF.) was self supporting— in need of no political character, and always an independent member of that House. Never could any one have been more flatteringly returned than he was, and he argued theicfrom it was a most unmisiakeable endorsement by the electors of their approval of •his principles, and confidence in himself; and although the Hutt returned five members he believed that he alone represented that constituency. The gentlemen opposite, since they could not get a share in the Government, had ■declared their intention of having recourse to ,the "painful alternative" of looking into the past expenditure and calling upon the General {Jovernment to prosecute. Under these circuinftances it would be useless to say more, and he should therefore content himself with throwing back upon the opposition the charge they had attempted to fix upon the Executive—that of retarding the progress of the Province. It being time to proceed to the Orders ot the Day the debate on the motion of Mr. Wakefield was postponed until after the same had been considered. UNION BANK LOAN. The Pro. Secretary, in the absence , of the Pro. Treasurer moved the second reading of the Bill " To confirm an arrangement made with the Union Bank of Australia for the additional loan of £05,000, authorised to bo negotiated by an Act of Session V., No. 9." The Pro. Solicitor seconded the motion. Mr. Wakefield, acting on the determination come to by the Council, moved'as an amendment—" That the Bill be reud a second time that day sis months"; and besides which this measure should of right be reserved for Her Majesty's consent. If the loan could be raised to-morrow, it would, he felt satisfied, be expended, not in advancing the interests of the Province, but in strengthening the position of the Executive. It would also entail the payment by the Province of an additional £2000 for interest, and this debt would be contracted to bring ' niisserios of voters," under the escort of engineers and paymasters of roads to poll in favour of the Executive, and then have it trumpeted forth that they possessed the confidence of the public; The General Assembly must, too, he thought, legislate on this matter, before the Provincial Council could complete any such arrangements. Mr. Vabsham seconded the amendment. He thought it a great act of injustice for the Exetive to ask the Council to sanction making loans when it had been declared that they did not possess the confidence of the House. He agreed in the opinion that the proposed loan, if granted, would be spent to serve rarty purposes. If it could have been satisfactorily demonstrated that such loan would have been expended for the good of the Province, he would have supported the measure; but not thinking- this he should support the amendment. . The Pro. Secretary thought the course pursued by gentlemen opposite an intelligible one, and dealing with the Bill as they had done was far preferable to shelving' it, as repeated adjournments were a useless and wearying waste of time. He. would not detain the House by any lengthened remarks as to the probable expenditure of the money in securing votes, suffice it to say he gave the lion, members credit fpr disbelieving their own words. Mr. Bowler, in supporting- the amendment, Vndemncd the system of immigration and the reckless expenditure connected therewith, and dwelt at some length on the case of the Ann Wjilson. On the Amendment being put the House divided, when there appeared, Aye 3 (12), Messrs. Allen, Barry, Bowler, Carpenter, Hunter, King, McLag-gun, Phillips, Wukcfield, Wallace, und Warhurton. Noes (3), The Provincial Secretary, the Provincial Solifiitpr, npd Captain Smith. The Amendment was therefore carried and the original motion lost. THE ESTIMATES. :Mr. Allen moved that the consideration of -the Estimates be postponed until Thursday next, which was agreed to. TOLL GATE AT KAI-WAItRA. Mr. Bowler moved the Bill for establishing a Toll Gate at Kni-warra, be read a second time that day six months. Mr. Allen seconded the motion. The Pb.ov. Secketary merely wished the principle of the Bill to be assented to.. Ho had no wish fo press that particular bill in its present shape, all he contended for was the principle it enunciated namely that of directt axation. Mr. Wakefield while agreeing in the principles of the Bill, still could not sanction «yen the introduction of a good law by an ■Executive in whom they bad no'confidence. Mr. Allen supported to motion, which was •greed to. DEEF WATER YrilAEl'. Mr. Aljjjn moved that the Bill be read a

second time that day six months, urging among j other reasons that it was a matter that would he more appropriately dealt with by a Municipal Corporation. Mr. Wakefield seconded the motion. A long debate ensued, in which Messrs. Hunter, Carpenter and Bowler supported the motion. The Provincial Secretary and Solicitor being opposed to it. The motion was however carried. PETITION OF THE HUT! INHABITANTS RELATIVE TO THE OAI'TURE OF AN ESCAPED MUSOi'EIt. Mr. Phillips brought up the report of the Select Committee ou the above, which on the motion of the hon. member, was read and received. ■ LICENSINO AMENDJIKNT ORDINANCE. The Prov. Solicitor moved the house into Committee on the Bill, when after having been amended, it was reported and adopted and the third reading fixed for to-morroiv-lLMlllOUlt RRS'iIIVES BILL. On the motion of Mr. Allen after a. slight discussion, the sreond reading of this Bill was fixed for that day six months. APPROPRIATION ACT. The Appropriation Bill was on the motion of Mr. Allen postponed to Thursday. RKI'LY TO Hia HONtUt's ADDRESS Mr. WAKF.ribXD moved " that a respectful address be presented to his Honor, covering a copy'of the resolution they had that evening adopted." Mr. Allen seconded the motion, which was) agreed to. * J resumption ov toe debate on mr. wakefield's motion. Mr. Hunter resumed the debate. He began by alluding to the paragraph in the Hddresa which stated " that the fruits of Sir Geo. Grey's wise and benefieient policy have been entirely thrown away." This was a tardy acknowledgement of the services of one of the best if not the very best Governor New Zealand ever had, still it was an acknowledgment, and he was glad that it had been made. He himself had been one of that Governor's nominees, and it was strange that be should be standing on the floor of that house, instead of being carefully deposited and preserved in a glass ease in the Museum—a fate with which nominees had been repeatedly threatened, but he was glad to say that the threat had not been realised, and he was found among the representatives of the people taking exception to an uncontrolled expenditure of public money, and he must here :emark that such conduct formed the substance of the charge against the nominees, but he had seen the error of his ways and was in tlie right path now, but what excuse could be oflered for those who knew better and were now acting in defiance of all previous professions, and iv antagonism to every principle of responsible government. Mr. Hunter then proooeeded to comment very strongly on the matter of the Ann Wilson, and thought the Council would not sanction the payment of any amount even if the arbitrators should decide against the province, which would comprimise our credit, and place us in a false position. The blame would however, rest with the Superintendent for appointing any one to arbitrate in the matter without first consulting the Couucil. He supported the motion before the house. The Prov. Solicitor drew attention to the fact that the wise and beneficial policy of Sir George Grey was his policy with the Native population. As to the threats of prosecution which had been dwelt on with such force by members opposite, all he could say they (the Government) were quite willing , to answer any charge in any Judicial Court, and would find a justification for every act. There was not the slightest objection on his side of the house to go into accounts with an open Committee, and with as large an audience as the house could accommodate. The motion of Mr. Wakefield was then put and carried. ADJOt'ENMENT. On the motion of Mr. Allen, the house adjourned at 5 minutes to eleven o'clock, to Wednesday, 9th November.