THE "Wellington Independent." Saturday, October 11,1851.

Wellington Independent, Volume VII, Issue 626, 11 October 1851, Page 2

THE "Wellington Independent." Saturday, October 11,1851.

Having shown in our last number, that a great portion of the £000,000, expended by the New Zealand Company, was spent not in carrying on the work of colonization, but in waging its contest with the Colonial Office, and that Earl Grey, while admitting the liability of her Majesty's Government to compensate tho Company, had at the same time put upon record his opinion, that the colonists had be«u the chief sufferers from tie disputes and wranglings between the Company and the Colonial Office, and that they therefore were really the parties most entitled to compensation, we confess it is difficult to understand, how bis Lordship can possibly listen to any proposal to transfer the Company's claim of £268,000 from tho Laud Fund to the General Revenue of the Colony. After his admissions, that the failure of the Company, aud its wasteful and profitless expenditure of the large sums of money entrusted to it, and more especially, that the ruinous losses experienced by the settlers were fairly attributable to the mischievous policy of the Colonial Office, and " to the serious errors committed in the General Administration of the Colony," we cannot conceive upon what grounds the Company's debt could be fairly charged even upon the Land. We are told that we have been grievously sinned against—that we have been vie timised in all sorts of ways ; and yet the very authors of all our wrongs and. injuries, insistnotonly thntwe shall bear our own losses, but also that we shall protect them from the results of their own folly. We are declared innoceut, and yet aro made to suffer for the guilty. If tho Company have lost their capital, through the unfair opposition of the Colonial Office, then let her Majesty's Government repay it; if they have lost through their own mis-managoment then we cannot see, why the shareholders should not, like all other speculators, submit to their Io3s; but in neither case are they entitled to call upon the Colony to make it good. We do not object to the Company being repaid out of the Land Fund that portion of their capital which has 1 really been expended for the benefit of j the Colony ; but we are satisfied, that, whenever the Company's accounts are investigated by the Colonial Represent tatives, it 3 cluirns Jwill be reduced to (comparatively speaking) a very small amount. For instance, no one would for a moment contend, that tho largo sum paid by tho New Zealand Company ; to Lord Durham's Company of 1825 is fairly chargeable upon the Colony; » n " we could mention many other sums Which would never be allowed. But however easy it may be for the Company Mid the Colonial Office to agree that this £268,000, shall bo made a charge upon the Colonial Revenue, we suspect, that they will not find it so easy to execute such an iniquitous arrangement. They may bo ready and eager enough to plunder us, but the question is, can they do it without the consent of the Colonial Legislature ? Have thoy the power to chargo this debt upon the general revenue of tho colony, without first obtaining an ordinance from the Colonial Legislature ? We maintain that they havo no such power, for it is a very different thing to chargo the land, and to charge the rovonuo. Tho distinction between charging the land and charging the Revenue is this j her Majesty claims

'the land as the estate of the Crown, which the Crown may charge with certain liabilities, just in tha samo way as any private person may charge his own estate. But tho Crown cannot claim tho produce of the taxes as an estate, which the Crown may legally charge Nay even in regard to tho lands, as the Crown is merely a Trustee for the Colony, it may be doubted whether a charge can be imposed upon the land, unless the charge be a clear benefit to the Colony ; but with respect to such a charge as is contemplated upon tho revenue there can, wo apprehend, be no doubt but th at it could only bo made with the sanction of the Colonial Legislature. _ What chance is there then of the Colonial Legislature ever giving its assent to any such measure P We hope we shall not be accused of rocanting the opinions we have preyiously expressed of Nominee Councils, if wo avow our conviction, that base and servile as these Councils have invariably proved themselves to be, yet that there never has existed a Council'm New Zealand, (not even tho late General Council incomparably the worst of the whole lot) that would have entertained such a proposal as that said to have been made by the Directors of the Company to the Colonial Office. And we are equally certain that lio Council (even though it were composed entirely of Officials) will ever be found that would lend itself to the perpetration of such a gross act of robbery. We almost hope however, that the attempt will be made by the Colonial Office ; and for this reason ; if they imagine that the Colonial Legislature will assent to their request to transfer the £268,000 from the land Fund to the general revenue, they will probably free the laud at once from the present mortgage; and then if the Council should, (as it assuredly would) refuse to charge the debt upon the revenue, the land being released of the charge, there would remain no charge at all. This would afford a good illustration of the " biter bit."

There remains one other point, to which we are desirous of calling tho attention of our readers, as it is one of considerable importance. Assuming for the sake of argument, that some portion of the £268,000 is fairly chargeable upon the! land fund, it appears to us, that if the New Zealand Company had been aware of the nature of the Land Claimants Bill recently passed, they would have been in some measure justified, if not in requesting that their debt should be made a charge upon the general revenue of the Colony, at least in calling upon her Majesty's Government to provide for its payment from some other source than the land fund. For if the Land Claimants' Ordinance be legal, and if its provisions tire carried out, then it is perfectly clear, that there is not the remotest chance of the Company ever receiving from tho land Fund for many years to come, a. single farthing towards the liquidation of its claim.

We have explained in previous numbers, that the Purchasers from- the Company are, under this Ordinance? entitled to exchange their laud—land-orders, or compensation scrip for" Government Money Scrip " at the rate following, that is to say—one pound sterling in Government Scrip for every acre of land " to Which the claimant may be entitled ; and "" that this money scrip will be received as cash by the Colonial Treasurer," in or towards the purchase of demesne lands of the Crown in any part of the Province of New Munster, which may from time to time be offered for sale by, or on behalf of the Colonial Government: and also in or towards the purchase of demesne lands of the Crown in any part of the Province of New Ulster, (not being within the limits of any Hundred, or within the limits of tho Town site of New Plymouth;") and we have further explained, that uutil tlie whole of this money scrip, (which it lias been estimated, will amount to between £100,000 and £200,000,) be absorded, no actual cash will ever be received by Government from the sale of land. Assuming then that the late Council did not exceed its powers in passing this Ordinance, and that it will be acted lipon, wo should very much like to know, how the Company's debt is to be paid. For we repeat, until the whole of the Money Scrip is absorbed, there will be ho actual cash paid for the purchase of land; and consequently the Company can receive none; a state of things, which wo imagine will not prove very satisfactory to the shareholders, and one in which they can scarcely be expected patiently to acquiese. I

But our own belief is, that the Ordinance is null and void, and that it will be disallowed by her Majesty's Government, on the ground that it is a direct Violation of the Act of Parliament of 1847, entitled *' An Act to promote Colonisation in New Zealand, and to authorize a loan to the Now Zealand Company." By that Act, the Government ugroed, in the event of the Company surrendering its Charter, to remit the loans of £236,000, and to give tho Company a mortgage over all the lands in New Zealand for £268,000, '(this sum bearing interest at the rate of three and a half per cent,) it being stipulated that before tho Company received ttuv thing from tho proceeds of tho land sales, the expenses of surveys Were to bo defrayed, and 103. an aore Appropriated to emigration—but that the whole .of tho remaining surplus should go towards tho liquidation of the Company's claim ofi £268,000; and the Government further engaged to tako upon itself and i 'fulfil (in consideration of tho Company's giving up all its lands) all tho Company's liabilities and contracts. According to tb,o Act of Parliament,

theretore, the Company is entitled, (after deducting the expenses of surveys, ami the 10s. an acre set apart fur immigration purposes) to all the proceeds from tho sale of hind throughout the 0( >lonv Wo lt ! rbm " y oxce P lc 'o. ""til its debt of 1208,000 ho paid off; l )Ut according to tho Land Claimants , Ordinance, it cannot • possibly receive a single farthing mit ;i the whole of tho Government money serin bo absorbed. The Ordinance is in short repugnant to, and a direct violation 'of the Act of Parliament; and is therefore we apprehend, ipxo /ado, null and void,' —at all events its disallowance is tolerably certain. We arc aware that it may be contended, that tho Ordinance was passed for the express purpose of completing the contracts of the Company; and that until theso contracts are completed, the Company is not entitled to the proceeds of the Land Sales ; but a reference to the correspondence between the Directors and tho Colonial Minister on the terms of the arrangement of 1847, and to the Act itself, is sufficient to shew! that the, Government took upon itself all the liabilities of the Company, engaged to carry out and complete all its contracts, .and further agreed (without reference to any nnfulfilled contracts on the part of the Company,) that the Company should receive ail the proceeds from the .Sales of Land—minus the deductions already mentioned—until tho debt of £-268,000 was liquidated. If this view be correct, what will be the position of the holders of the Government Money Scrip ? They will simply find, that their Scrip is so much waste paper, for it will not be receivable at the Sales of Land, until the Company's debt has been paid off! They will find themselves in fact regularly done . If on the other hand, the Ordinance can override tho Act of Parliament, then the Company is done ! In either case a pretty settlement of the Land Claims' Question !!

The following portrait of tho "Modell Governor " —of the " able financier," drawn by the members of th& present Legislative Council of South Australia, however true and faithful it may be, is most assuredly not fluttering. We extract the debate from the Soulk AustraRegister of the 30th of August; and it will well repay the trouble of perusal. We have seen in the colonies many curious contrivances for "raising the wind;" but that adopted by Governor Groy, while administering the government oi Sonth Australia, beats any we have ever read of, not so much for its novelty as for its boldness and barefaced dishonesty. Tho fact of a Governor—of a " great public officer of England's mighty Empire," not only refusing to restore the goods when the bill which he had given iii payment for them, came back dishonored, but actually selling the goods ami pocketing the proceeds on behalf of Government is one to which we would not have given credepcc, had it not been statecl on such high authority as that of the members of the Legislative Council of South Australia, during one of their sitj tings. We believe that the Commissioners [ of Bankruptcy invariably refuse "the Certificate to those bankrupts:, who have been guilty of transactions similar to that of which his Excellency is accused ; and the members of the Legislative Council seem to have adopted the rule; for they one and all denounced his Excellency's conduct in the most unmeasured terms. The very officials not only refused to say a word in his defence, but joined in the general censure. His Excellency will yet find out that " honesty is the best policy."

6. Mr. Elder moved :—

" That an Address be presented to His Excellency the Lieiitenant-Govenior, praying tlmt provision may be made for compensating Mr. William Jacobs for expenses incurred by him in consequence of the dishonour of a Bill drawn in November, 1841, by His Excellency dipt. Grey, then Governor of the Province, on the Lords of Her Majesty's Treasury, and given to Mr. Jacobs in payment of the balance of an account settled with the Local Government for work performed by him in the survey of Land." The bon. member then detailed very fully and clearly all tho particulars of this well-known case, and dwelt at some longth on the hardships that Mr. Jacobs had been exposed to in consequence of tho conduct of Government.

Mr. Giles seconded the motion, and said ho could bear testimony to the hardships referred to by tho hou. member, from his own personal knowledge; and no doubt most of the members who wero old colonists, to whom the particulars were well known, could do the same. He would only say that, if it had not been for tho kind forbearance of Mr. Edward Stephens, the Manager of the Bank of South Australia, in allowing the bill to stnnd over, Mr. Jacobs would hnvo been obliged to sell his flocks, and have been a totally ruined man.

Mr. Gwynne thought the point at issue if he understood it aright, was, that this was a claim for the payment of a just debt. Now, he thought no argument could bo needed to prove that a just debt ought to be paid, and he thought that the character of that House would be rated very low in tho eyes of the world if any argument wore entered into on the subject-. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Watcrhoilsc was of opinion that, however just tho debt might have been us Against Governor Grey, by whom it was contracted, aud who hud given tho bill that had been dishonoured by the Home Government, the colonists should not be called upon to pay for debts contracted by an irresponsible Governor, particularly whon it was woll known that they, almost to a man, repudiated at tho time tko conduct; of that Governor iv,

contracting those debts, and publicly condemned his acts, which had nearl'v ruined the colony. They had commenced v new era, under a constitutional uud responsible Government, which dated i'roin the 20th August last, and he had no wish to rake up the; misdeeds of unjust and irresponsible Governments; he would siiy, with reference to them, "let hy-gones be by-goncs."

Tho Registrar-General bog-ged to explain, in reference t<> tliis matter, that, if the House enlerluined tliia claim, they must be prepared to entertain a crowd <jf other similar claims ; for Governor Crev had, during the course of the year 1>540, issued other bills to the amount, of £20,000 which had come back with charges upon them at 20 per cent., amounting to £'4,000. The House must therefore consider whether they would lie justified in taking so large a sum from the taxes of the people to pay off debts contracted by Governor Grey. But tlieso were not the only outstanding claims. There were claims on dishonoured bills issued during Col. Gawler's governorship amounting to £102,000, which were dishonoured, and expenses on them nt the same rate would be more than £20,000. There was also another class of debtors, namely, the original bondholders, whose claims constituted the bonded debt of the colony, which, however, he was happy to say, was nearly liquidated in consequence of an! arrangement made by the Home Government with the bondholders, by which' they consentjd to receive 3J per cent, instead of the 10 per cent, interest originally agreed on. All these parties were in the same position as Mr. Jacobs, and he thought that, if Mr. Jacobs, or any one else, thought proper to take bills from Governor Grey, after knowing, as they must have done at that time, that other bills had been dishonoured, they did it upon their own risk. He would, however remark wiih regard to Mr. Jacobs' claim being for the balance of an account. Now the facts of tho case were, that Mr. Jacobs had been paid tho amount of his work, with 5 per cent, thereon; and tho balance now claimed was the difference between the 5 per cent, and the 20 per cent, expenses on the returned bill.

Mr. Hare thought the elements of this case very simple. Their inquiry should be directed to ascertain—was the work done, and well done ? If it were, then the amount ought to be paid without further hesitation. It was not for persons who had contracted just debts to excuse themselves from paying them on the plea that they had no money (Hear, hear.) And if parties contracting debts gave bills in payment that were dishonoured and entailed expenses, they were bound to pay those expenses as well as the original debt. (Hear hear.) He should therefore, certainly give his support to the motion.

Mr. Baker could not but express bis surprise that there should be any opposition to so just a claim, anil more particularly was be surprised to hear the bon. member for East Torrens, a man acquainted with commercial affairs, exp;o;s himself as be had done on the subject. He (Mr. B ) had had some experience in business, but he had never heard the maxim of " let by- gones be bygones" applied to matters of Dr. and Cr., and the payment of just debts. (Hear hear.) No doubt it would be a very convenient maxim for some people, but one which he thought that House would not adopt in practice. An argument had been used by the Registrar-General, that they should not pay this claim, for if they did they would have to pay others. He (Mr Bakerj thoughtsuch an'r ;umeiit unworthy the consideration of that House. They should look to the principle, and were after claims equally just, let them not to the amount. If the work had been done, then the claim was just and ought to bo paid. (Hear.) They ought not to avail themselves of the misdeeds of former Governors to avoid just claims, since by so doing they would in a manner sanction those misdeeds. He knew that this was not the only instance of suffering and injustice caused by Governor Grey's conduct. lie knew parties who had received bills for goods they had supplied to the Government, and that the goods were still in the possession of the Government when the bills came back dishonoured. The parties holding these dishonoured bills applied to Governor Grey to let them have the goods at least back, but he positively refused, and eventually sold the goods and pocketed the proceeds. (Shame, shame )

Mr. Waterhonse rose to explain that he had not applied the expression " let by-gones be by-gonos" to the payment of debts, but to constitutional principle contrasted with irresponsible government. He did not agree with the RegistrarGeneral in oppoing the claim in the amount, since- with him (Mr. \V.) it was a question of principle.

Mr. Nealcs tboughttlie commercial law, that men should pay theirjust debts, was too well known to need any remarks from him. But ho was not at all surprised at Governors and Colonial Secretaries refusing to pay Government debts, for it was a principle with Government all over tho world to creep out of the payment of their debts —first they diminish tho interest, then they destroy it altogether; next they got rid of the amount of interest duo by making it a part of tho capital, then they reduce it to thirds; till at last tho fortunate holder of government scrip in too many instances found that he hud nothing left in his hands. Such had been his own case, and he believed that of many others who happened to be holders of Spanish or Portugueso Bonds. Ho could bear out tho statements of the horn

member for Mount Barker, as to the goods of persons holding the dishonored bills of Governor Limy having been sold for the Government 'after the billy bad been returned, /or he happened to be the auctioneer who sold them, and he confined that h<: fdt anything but comfortable in having to sell" what ho considered .stolen goods. Jh; could say the work had been doiie, for it was fur surveviii-r land. ■ ■ 6

Mr. Angas thought the Registrar-Ge-neral was wrong in supposing that the holders of dishonored bills under Colonel Gawler would put in any claim for expenses on re-e.\chungo, as he happened to know the parties who held them in England, who had applied to him for advice on the'subjeet. His advice to them was not to send the bills back, but to hold them; as he was sure the Government would never dare to refuse to pay them when the subject was brought before the House of Commons; and the. result proved that he was correct, (or when the subject was brought forward a sum was voted to return the bills. They, therefore did not conio back with expenses as in Mr. 'Jacobs' case.

Mr. Dutton admired the eloquence of the hon. member for Mount Barker as to handing down a good example to their children, but he should take care not to wrong those children by entailing unnecessary debts on them.' He thought this a case of that kind, sinco it appeared that the original amount had been paid, and the present claim was for expenses— the principal part of which arose from private arrangements made by Mr. Jacobs with the bank to hold the bill over. lie thought if such claims were to be entertained, they would have all those whose property had been depreciated in those calamitous times, by the return of these bills, coming to claim compensation. He like the mover of the amendment, would not resist a really just claim on account of the amount of other claims.

Mr. Hart thought the hon. member for East Adelaide was not aware of all the facts of the case, or he would not have expressed himself as he had done. Certainly, he was not awave of one very important fact, namely, that persons had no choice at that timel but were obliged to take bills in payment of their claims on Governor Grey, and consequently, the Government ought to be responsible for all the expenses entailed on the holder of the bill by its being dishonoured. (Hear.)

Mr. Peacock agreed with the hon. member for Victoria. This was a question of wages for labour; the land, fon the survey of which this debt had been! contracted, had been sold, and the Government received the proceeds of thai sale; and he certainly thought the plea , that the original amount had been paid could not stand, when the expenses of the return of the bill had not been paid. He thought thai if £1,000 were due for! wages, and £(500 for expenses were deducted from thot amount, it, could not bisnid that the original claim of £1,500 had been paid. He should recommend that the case should be referred to a Select Committee, and if they, after examining into the merits of the case, considered the claim to be a just one, then let it certainly bo paid. (Hear, hcr.r.) Mr. Kingston explained that lie had taken, like many others, a bill from Governor Grey, and had been induced to do so, although he knew Colonel Gawler's bills had been dishonored, by the solemn assurance of Governor Grey'that his bills would not. like those of Col. Gawler, be dishonored by the Home Government.

Captafn Bagot observed that if Mr. Jacobs had been asking a favour from the House, he (Captain Bagot) should, from the near relationship in which he stood to Mr. Jacobs, have felt some delicacy in addressing the house on that occasion ; but this was a claim in a matter of right, and he thought that ho might venture to make a few remarks on the subject, in consequence of his familiar acquaintance with the matter, and with the transactions relative to this bill. He confessed he was surprised that there was any opposition, and still more surprised at the Opposition of the hon. Registrar General, when he remembered how he had acted on a former occasion, if he were not out of order in referring to it. The Advocate-General thought he was. The Registrar-General thought the hon. gentleman, should not put himself out of order, knowing it as ho evidently did.

Capt Bagot would not further allude to the post conduct of the Registrar-Ge-neral. He then went on to.-pomt out that the justice of the claim had been admitted by Lord Stanley in 1844, and by Mr. Gladstone in 18-Ui, who recommended that the prayer of tho petition forwarded, by Mr. Jacobs should bo complied with.

The Advocate-General rose to support tho ameudmeut of the lion, member for Noarlunga, and felt sure that Mr. Jacobs' friends would feel that their case would be strengthened by being referred, to a Select Committee. Ho thought, as a general rule, that it would he inexpedient for the House to decide at once on such claims as that without referring them to a Committee for examination, or to decide on expending tho public money without mature consideration. He would suggest that the duties of the Committee should not bo confined to this case alone but shouid be made more general. The Registrar-General had no objection to a Committee.

Tho following amendment moved by Mr. Peacock, and seconded .by the Advo-cato-Gcnenil, was thon put and carried:— " Tlrnt a Select Committee of five members l)e ap-

I'Oiuted t.) investi»nt l; and report upon tlm claim of j Mr. Jacobs, niiil any oihcrcliiitu against the Ooverni mciit wliicli iimy be hroujjlit before the Council." j r Jhe following members were ohosen Jby hailot _t(j form the Select Committee in addditiou to tlie mover and seconder: —Messrs. i!all, Baker, Younghusband, ' I fart, and ['llder.

Nomineeisin seems at almost as great in South Australia, as it is in New Zeuluml. At least it Ins only been ufter an extensive canvass that Sir H. Young has found four men willing to accept the proffered honor. Tho following _ remarks of the South Australian lic./h/rr were made before the seats had been filled up; we quote them chiefly for the purpo.se of showing that Lieut.Govuruor Eyre's manly conduct during the late debute on the Provincial Counand his able exposition of the feelings and opinions of the settlers placedunderhis government arc as fully appreciated by the inhabitants of South Australia as by the colonists of Xew Zealand.—

"Tin: Nominkes.—Shadows, clouds, and darkness, still.sets upon tlie subject which _ just now monopolizes public curiosity. Jt has not transpired whether any other gentlemen besides Major Campbell ami Mr. CJrainger havo declined the blushing honour, though the names of several gentlemen were bruited about, but we believe entirely without foundation. The only general rumour in circulation yesterday on the matter was that Mr Fisher had" been positively nominated, but this wo believe to be untrue. Doubtless in this ease "the wish was father to the the desire to see that gentlemen in the Council being so universally expressed, that it is deemed almost next to impossible that His Excellency should hesitate to gratify the popular expectation. However, the suspense cannot last much longer. We can only hope that those gentlemen who may accept the oTice will not thereby relinijuish their claims to be considered independent representatives. A great battle has now to be fought between the prerogatives of power and the interests of the people. It will be to the honour of the colony in New Zealand under Lieut.Governor Eyre. That functionary, in writing lately to the Governor-in-Chief, Sir George Grey, declared that so odious was the nominee principle among the people whom he governed, that he doubted his ability to form a Council which should be based on that principle. At least, we trust, the example, of Major Campbell will he followed; and that those who accept office will do so unfettered.

The Governor in the exercise of his official functions, will doubtless endeavour to secure tliick-and-tliin supporters of the Government measures, but it is for the colonists, at all hnzards, to show that they arc determined to secure for themselves under the existing constitu--tion the utmost possible measure of selfg >veniment.

Fiat J unlit ia mat calum