LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume II, Issue 117, 25 November 1846, Page 4

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Wednesday, October 7, 1846,

The Council having resolved itself into Committee upon the Constabulary Force Bill, then proceeded Io discuss the several clauses of it.

Mr. Donnelly observed, on the title being read, that as there was no provision made in tbe bill for the payment of the proposed force, he would object to the word " maintenance '* remaining part of the title. Mr. Donnelly therefore moved, and Mr. Kennedy seconded, that the word " maintenance" be left out of the title.

Tbe Attorney-General said, that the word "maintenance " meant the keeping up the force. Mr. Domett considered that, after the explanation given by the Attorney-General of the meaning of the word, that it ehottld stand. If the Governor could not maintaia the Force, there was no use ia establishing ft.

The Colonial Secretary thought that if the word was expunged, the force might be rateed to-day, and broken up to-morrow. Mr. Doßnelly conceived the obvious meaning of the word would be understood to imply pavnunt. M e £° rd was left out of the title. Mr. Doraett observed, respecting that part of the 2nd clause which empowered the Governor to • displace or remove " the officers when he thought meet, that soma modification should be made so as officers giving offence should have the benefit of fciiaj by court martial, in tbe same manner as officere 6/ her Majesty's forces. He f Mr. Domett) believed that so Jong as the clause stood as it did at present, it would ije difficult to find men of respectable standing to Accept the offices in the force. The Governor ftbserved that pawer should be vested in ;the Crown to remove officers, and us, in the colonies, the Governor represented the Queen, the same power should be conferred ! and if such .'power was exercised unjustly, the officer should appeal to her Majesty. It would be necessary that the Governor shoul have power to remove officert, if it was found that there were more commiseioned than was necenary, or else this colony might be .taddjed with a heavy unnpcessary expence, which w by no .no;ans ,4esirahle. Ths bill gave no power to the Governor which was not vealed in' •the Queen.

Mr. Domett was satisfied as to that part of his Excellency's explanation, which rpgsrded economy in finance ; but he ftill thought the clause might be modified, and made less o' jectionr.ble. The Governor contended thatthig power belonged to .the Crown, and he instanced Ireland as an example to shew the necessity of the Queen possessing such power. In that .country ;it has happened tfbat officers of the armed com-tabulary who have been actuated by party feelinge, have refused to lead their men, for the protection of peace, against their own party, and it was found necessary to remove them. He (the Governor) could easily fancy that such might occur even in New Zealand. And it would be competent for the Governor to have that power and.conr rtrol over the .officers, that .woujd ensure the greatest .efficiency.

Mr. Domett .enquired, 1 on reading the sth clause, whether the police would >c under the .direction of

magistrates when required for the sertico of summouses i , . •,, i •> Mr. Donnelly on the sixth clause, caul that it srave too much power to the couaUbles where it provided that they " nhould apprehend all P>rso»» whom they found between suu-iet «nd eight in the forenoon, lying in any hi«hw>iy, &c. He* VγDonnelly) conceived, that if any of the natives, who frequently may be foiind lying in the streets, were taken into custody under.the authority of this act* the very worst results might ensue. Mr. Kennedy took the same view of the clause. The Gioverno'r considered that some mistake had arisen in framing this clause. The word " drunken should have been inserted, and the words by " day should also have been put in before " between suueet." The Attorney General eaid, this particular clause had been copied by him from an European aot without alteration. Tile Colodial Secretary agreed with Mr. Donnelly that much evil might arise from the large powers given to the constables. The Colonial Treasurer amongst other remarks, said, he was of opinion that the clause should itand, as it had been taken from an English act. The Governor took a different view from any of the honourable members who had spoken' on the clause. He thought that the section 9liould be altered so as to include day as well as night. Hβ (the Governor) did not apprehend any unhappy results from the powers which the bill might place in the hands of the constables; and he was sure that »uy European who might suffer unjust inconvenience at the hands of the constables, would take good cara to hnve redress; and with respect to the natives, be considered it necessary that loose or disorderly individual* of them should be prevented from giving annoyance throughout the night. While at Wellington, he was convinced of the necessity of such a law as the present, for diiring the night, most disgraceful annoyances took place by native women who had "rambled from their pahs, disturbing the whole neighbourhood. % lf thß police overreached their duty, they would be liable to punishment —but he considered that no proper person would suffer by the power proposed io be placed in tin constables hands. Ths 11th clause being read, Mr. Domett suggested that some words sh;uld be introduced to empower the Governor to grant any portion, or tbe whole of certain fines, to policemen who had dia* tinguished themselves for activity and efficiency. The Governor remarked upon the 11th clause, that he would wish to see it expunged. He would much rather apply to the Legislature for a pension by specific grant, than to have the power of granting himself. It would be better to leave the whole matter in the hands of the Legislature, who be had no doubt, would act generously whenever called upon; and to meet exigencies, temporary .relief could be given by the Governor. He, (the Governor) however agreed with Mr. Domett, that it would tend to encourage efficiency, by giving to individuals of the police a share in the fines. 11th clause expunged. Two new clauses were introduced by the Attorney General, and agreed to; the remainder of the clauses were read, and after a few remarks from Messrs. Domett and Donne ly, they were agreed to. Native Trust Amendment Bill. The Colonial Secretary, on moving the second reading of the Native Trust AraenJment Bill, siid, the object of this bill was to repeal that part of a former ordinance which established a central board, and also to give the Governor power to appoint district trustees. Mr. DonDelly said, that the efficacy of such a bill as the present, in promoting the objects contemplated by it must altogether depend upon the powers given to the trustees—that in that respect no alteration was made by the present bill in the. original ordinance—and that therefore tbe utility of this bill must be estimated altogether by the powers conferred upon the trustees by the original ordinance. These powers were simply to lease the native reserves for periods not exceeding ninety-nine years, and to exchange those for others of equal value. It was obvious that no moaey could be at any time raised by the latter power—and it was equally obvious that no amount of money adequate; in any degree however Blight, to provide for the objects for which the ordinance was framed, cotild for a long time be raised in a new colony by tbe mere powers of leasing lands. Something could indeed be realised by the sale of native reserves situated in favorable parts of the town, but the sams so raised would be as nothing compared with those required for the purpoiee of the enactment. The native reserves asd other property set apart for the benefit of the natkm, would of course be ultimately beneficial. Bat as no time should be lost in providing some fund for accomplishing the objecta of the ordinance, and others of a very pressing nature, the great question was. how is that fund to be -raised.? For it was manifest that it coulJ not be raised -andej this ordinance— this was a matter for the consideration of tbe Execotive Council in the first instance. But in the meantime, it was a painful tftrtbj that if the provision is loHfr delayed tbe natives will in all human probability, be out of the reach of its benefits when it was provided, by the working of those causes natural and social, which are at this moment in active operation.

Mr. Domett thought that the honorable member's observations mutt only have reference to Auckland, and to the norlhem districts. At Neleon tbere were in the hands of iln Trust, native propities and referves which were productive, upwards of £20 had been .raised by leasing these reserves, and at present the sum £\QO .belonging to the rmet lay in the Bank at Nehon. The central board, he believed was m-t well adapted for carrying out the obj cts of the Trust, its existence caused much evil. He should vote for the Bill.

Mr. Donnelly wag gotry that he had passed over the New Zealand Company's magnanimouj efforts to provide for the improvempnt of the nativej. Keally, the enormous sum of £200 eet apart for •the civilizition of 13,000 human beingg, is g0 very plausible, that it should not have been overlooked f he Company, as well as Government, had made great professions of regard for the welfare of the natives but hitherto not one single effort had been made by the local Government to do anything for their benefit; and.the Company, at one of their settlements, .had raised »he,enormoujs sum of £200 one hundred of which was looked up in the Bank at Ne eon I He, (Mr. Donnelly), trusted, that now the matter was in the hands of his Excellency, w.Uo had taken sjich jntercij jn the Aborigines of

other rountriei, , eoniPthlnß subatantlnl Would bo done to rodoem the numerous promises made by the British Government respecting the advancement of the nittiive race. The Governor observed that he hud become persuaded of the total Inefficiency of thu central board of trustees to carry out the object for .whlnli they were appointed. When he proceeded to Wellington he found great confusion existing respecting native reserves in the town. It appeared that the trustees' had caused great embarrassments in that district, for their agents had leased and sublet reserves, without taking care to provide for the natives occupntion. It was, while he, the Governori was at Fort Nicholson, where he observed the confusion arising from the workings of this Board, that he saw the Necessity of forming distinct Board*, and determined to place the power in the hands of a Government official on the spot, wild would be responsible for proper attention baing paid to the iutereets of the natives It was plain to him that a central board was injudicious, for it wae impossible that gentlemen in Auckland could possess the local knowledge most necessary to enable them to regelate the affairs of the trust in every district throughout the country. He therefore came before tlie Council with this bill to remedy the defect of the existing measure, and to enable him to appoint local Trustees, in order that injustice to the natives might be avoided. He, the Governor, quite agreed with the hon. member, Mr. Donnelly, that a fund shoul.l be set apart for the purpose of improving the natives, unci he would be glad if the Council would place such fund at the disposal of the Government for that laudable purpose.

After a few observations from the Attorney General, the farther consideration of the bill was postponed.

The Attorney-General gave notice of the eecdnd reading of the Supreme Court Amendment bill for Thursday.

The Governor laid on the table the Sheriff's Office Bill, and a Weights and Measure Bill. The Council adj lurned till 12 on Thursday. Thursday, October 8. Present—AH the memberi. The Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Supreme Court Amendment Bill which was proceeded with in committee.

The several clauses were discussed, and a few amendments and alterations were made.

Mr. Donnelly moved the second reading of the Sheriff's Office Bill, which was ordered to be read a second time on Friday.

The Naturalization Bill was read a third time, and passed.

The Council resumed in committee upon the Native Trust Amendment Bill.

The Governor said, that he had given the matter some consideration sin;e the comnlittee bad adjourned, and Jie conceived the simplest and best way to deal with the former Ordinance would be, to repeal it altogether. At present, he bad no power to sell native land, and be hid found that re»triction to be a great evil. While he was at Wdiitl? - ton he found some of the natives residing upon the lands of others, and some even upon what might be considered the bona fide property of Europeans. To remove them was difficult, and he had not the funds to purchase the landf. It was desirable he should have |hie power, in order to purchase such land a that might be necessary for the satisfactory adjustment of ihese matters. He wished to be extricated from the position he at present occupied It might be supposed that he wee in possession of funds which bad no eiistenee io reality, as it was imposn'ble to raife money by leasing the reserves ; but if he was invested power to sell, and if that power was exercised judiciously, It would answer all tbe ends of a system of exchanges, and be productive of much more satisfactory retults. The amount hitherto raided for the promotion of objects connected with the improvement and civilization of the natives was most contemptible—it was a drop of water when com. pared to the ocean. He had imagined that the native tru«t were in possesiion of funds, and bad even advanced money upon that supposition; bat he fouai that suich was not the case, arid be firmly believed that fUnds would never accrue until the trust was empowered to sell ss well as lease.

The Attorney-General explained why the former Ordinance had been framed bo ag to prevent the the trust from sellinj?. It was thought that if such powers had been conferred, the Home Government would have disallowed the measure. Mr. Donnelly, after reheaning the objects of the former bill, as set forth in the preamble, and dilating upon the small amount of good that had been effected by the Government on behalf of the natives, laid, that ho agreed with the Governor upon the propriety of repealing the exWtfftg Ordinance altogether, and substituting in it* plarre a measure that would confer the power of selling the native rese/ves. FniDAY, October 9. Preeent~All the Members. Mr. Donnelly moved the second readfair of the Sheriff's Bill. The Council went info committee upon the Bill, end khe several clauses were debated. A diem»ion arose upon the nsturp snrl extettf of thei>vi«U to be required of the SherifiN; B nd the further nonsideratinn of the bill w*« postponed until the Governor had conaiderfd the tabln of fee*.

Mr. K'nnedy movrd tha first reading of the Prisons Bill, which was rend, and ordered to be read a second time on Saturday.

_ The Contributory Force Bill wni ren<] a third time ; and in answer in a qupsli in from Mr. Domelt, respecting the nature of the office of Commissioners named in the Bill, (he Governor said, that 'lift Commissioner* would be. officers holding the chief powpr.in the force before whom lha men would be taken to n-ceive sentence of punishment They might be the senior officers of the force, but who the commissioners would be, he, the Governor, could not yet inform the Council. The BiH was then pasted. The Governor laid on the table a Bill for the Relief of Destitute Personej a Bill for Importing wine duty free, for naval and military officer! 5 n Cu&toms' Amendment Bill; and a Bill to regulate the duties of Coronere. '

Mr. Kennedy gave notice of the firet reading of the Destitute Pereone' Bill j and the AttorneyGeneral of the third reading of the Supreme Coort Amendment Bill, for Saturday. sJwda?* 0011 * d J 9ur^d untU # o'clock on