Voucher Incident

Waihi Daily Telegraph, Volume V, Issue 1425, 8 September 1905, Page 2

Voucher Incident

Mate lis tii@ In notion and Speech by the Premier fir Fisher's-Reply By Telegraph.—Press Asaooiation. Wellington, this day. In tho Honso yos'krday aftornoon tho first order ot tho day was consideration of tho Auditor-General upen tho alleged paymont to Captain Seddon. MOTION BY THE PREMIER , Tho Prbwior moved: " That tho report of the Controller and Auditor-General bo adopted, Also: (1), That this House is s:itisfiod that tho charge against Cspt tin Seddon of improperly receiving pa-, moot for reorganising the dofnnco stores, and against Messrs Collins, Groy ami Mcßeth of "iviog untrue corbiiicat ca relating tbevcto, Ims basil completely refute:-', and should never

have boon made, (2), 'flint in tho ease cf Captain Soddon this flouso rogrcts that the ■ chatgo against him should have been reitoratcd after it had boon shewn to 'bo unfounded, (3),! That it bs an instruction to tbo euporvisov of Hancard and thb Government Print or to insert in the bound copies of Hansard at the enJ of the speech made by tho member for Welling, ton, Mr F. M. B. Fisher, in which tbo charge was first ma-Jo, and at tbo end of ovory debate whercevov subsequent rcforonco was uiad 0 thoreto in Hansard, a copy of tho Comptroller's and Auditor-General's report, and that attention bo drawn to tho said report and to this resolution, and an intimation givou that tho said charges hayo been investigated and refuted,' Mr. Soddon wont on to say that members would agrco that tho Auditor-General's inquiry had boon of a searching character. ■There was nothing ambiguous or in* dofiuito in tho report ho had presented to Parliament. H'o was sorry that Mr, Fisher had ungraciously acoopted tho finding instead of taking tho right course of fully accepting thorn. Tho junior member for Wellington had stated publicly that ho would freely and fully accept the Auditor. Go jeral's report, and ho now asked him to ctttT.v'out tbo pledgo. Mr. Fisher had stated that ho (Mr. Soddon) had boon placed in an unfortunate position! but it wis Mr Fishor who now found himself in an unfortunate position, Ho (Mr Soddon) never bad any doubfc as to the ultimate result of tho inquiry, but tho incident had caused him worry and anxiety, and hia miud had been lakou off larger subjects. Unfortunately, the colony had suffered by what bad talton place, in tint tho tonoo'f Parliament and of public life had boon loworod. Tho Premier went on to say that after. finding out tho mistake bo bad miiln in tho original Sneddon voucher, Mr Fisher should havo made reparation/but instead of doing that he told tho country that thcro had been a strange coincidence, and reiterated the charge. He wanted Mr. Fisher to say who had refreshed his memory after ho had first (liven the number of tbo alleged voucher. He had from an officer of the colony Ilia number given to him, and that ollicor, after tbo vouchor was proved to bo for Mr, Sneddon, and not for Captain Soddon, still said ho was posilivo Ihoto was such a. voucher in oxistonc!, It would appear that tho inforaation was given to him before tho ranttor came before tho House at all. That was the evidenco of Mr Willi?, who was a lieutenant in tbo corps of which Mr Fisher was captain. Ho askc-d JVfr Fishor, m the inlorsstn of tho public service, to give the Houso tho source of his information. It was stated that tbo information had been given to Mr Fishoi by an anonymous letter, If so, it placed him in a still more unfortunato position, The Premier wont on to point out that Mr Fishor had said, that if ho failod in his charccs ho would 'go out of public life. That was a matter for Mr Fisher to dcoido. Ho thou proccoded to analyse tbo ovidonco of the witnesses nxamiuod by the AuditorGeneral, and laid strrs3 on tho point brought out that thcro were four complote checks on every payment, and that entries would still exist, ovon if a vouchor was lost or destroyed, and yot Mr, Fishor, in his letter to him (iho Premior) suggested Ultra might havo been forgery, although tbo evidence oven of some of Mr.- Fisher's own witnesses was against such n possibility. He again complained of tho manner in which tho original charges wero made, and said that if bo hod boon notified that they wero to bo mndc ho would havo takon steps to refute thorn at once. As it was, bo took tho liwt opportunity' of refuting them, Mr, Soddon then laid on tho table a communication from the Treasury Department, to tho effect that Captain Soddon invariably signod" B. J, Soddon," not '•IU.S. Soddon," and also tho second Sneddon voucher,

MB FiaiTßU'S REPLY Mi' l''mhor said llio pcoplo would not be Hntisli.nl until iv pubiiu inquiry wns h-jld inlu bin cliih'Roh, at which thopiw should bo admitloil and wiltioHsos on bolli sides iinl)jii(:ti)dlo oroHH-rxiiiniimlion. Tho Premier noiild not break down his (Mr b'lulior'ii) in'iilomii', hut ho could smash Urn I'mmier'n witnoiinps into ninepins, llin (Mr l , 'iiilier'it) witucsaos had petitioned the llonso for ut full inquiry. Thoy luui iiuiliiii|; lo fmo', and the I'rotnior had not cii'it iinliiiiliiwnf doiibli on their evidence. Mr L'Toombn was a limn of 2'2 yours' lioi'vieo, and was luicuiiliunnl to handliiif; vohhlmii". 11 rt took thin vouchor to Mr. Willi.', v.'iih whom ho iliiiousfiod it lit l«ii|;ilt| u'ld thoy iiki ineiitiniiud Ihti mutter lo lilr, W'njt, who looked at the vouchor anil j mini in the discussion. l)ii('iii|;lliii(!(iiiii(iiol' tint itn|iiiry ttvonty Sneddon viiiiohori oamii to lijjlit. The Biiediliui vouchor wai whitn ainl tliiU'-ieil-don voucher wuh ldiio. All the wilui'smw uworc lo thai, mid tho eiintimlii were hii iinliko that iliat they could not po.mibly bo mistaken. 11" hud adtuiltod in tho report of tho niulilor-Ueiioi'iil tlmt Giiptnin Hmldon did not id«ii tho voueher, but • white*' ho wanted to know was, who did sign it? Thoro was no possibility of those moil Imvinfi miido n miatiiltu. If tho Prouiior had nothing to (ear, why did ho ohjoot lo thoorder of ruforonco of Iho inquiry beiußiuiido uswido in posuiblo ? Howinld bo quite linppy to jjo before any ,iudeo and arjuio his enao, and ho would bo confident of tho result, ltolonin" to the staterant that Gapliiin taldon signed his •.lavjDO " It, ,), Hoddon " on vouchors, ho poimed out thai in tho document!! connected with this oa°o, in letters' to Mr Taylor, and in his orders to Liontenant Dillon on a cortaiu occasion in South Africa, ho lml always signed him self B." J. {j, Bcddou." This was a peculiar cireunutauce, and a public inquiry might throw somo light on it. Ho dealt with tho ovidonco givon boforo tho Auditor-General, and conlondoc! that some of it would not dtsnd Mm a Judgs of (t

Supremo Court. It was shown - that Messrs Larcombo, Willis and West wero men of unblomishod' character, and he urged that the Protnier should assist them in finding out who signed tho vonoher and whero it went to, The witness Lundon had come forward voluntarily and said he recollected seeing thesignaturo of "B. J. S, Seddon" (o a vouchor. Thcso tnon had, as invited, como out into the opan, and thoso who invited them to como into tho open wanted to ehoos thorn down. That was not fair fighting. Tin's was a question of common justice, ami ho askoil mombei'3 if they .woro preparod to deny theso men a fair and open inquiry If tho Premier had nothing to fear, there was no reason why ho should not grant it on ihoir behalf. Ho chsllongad tho Premier to grant an inquiry. Los him prosecuto them for perjury, or anything, to bring tho matter to tho light of day. k conclusion, Mr Fisher said he was 3atisfiod that if a pablic inquiry was granted there would bo an exceedingly startling disclosure.

AN AMENDMENT Mr. McNab urged that (hero was no Court—not oven a Bench of Jud^os—'hero was no tribunal, which could find the truth bettor than tho Auditor-Genera!, and iiis report was a comploto answer to the charge. Ho moved the following amendment as an addition to tho Premier's motion:

" That this Houso desires to place on record an oxprcsrion of its pleasure at the receipt oi (lie report of the Auditor and Controller-Ucneral, and congratulate the Right Honourable tho Premier, as Minister of Defencethat tho charge mado by Mr, Fisher has boon proved to ho unfounded in substance and in fact, and that it has been established that uo payment of the nature alleged was over made. That this Honso also recognises with extreme' gratification that the certificates given by the Secretary to the Treasury, tin Assistant* Secretary to tho Treasury, and tbe IJndtr-Secrclary of Defence, relating to tho alleged wrongful paymont to Captain Seddon,havo been proved to bo absolutely -correct. That this House desires te congratulato the ollieers named, and a'so Captain Seddon, of the Defence Department, upon having successfully vindicated their reputations as officials, a.id a'so tho reputation of their respoctive/Dtpartraerts, from tho attacks made neon them by Mr Fisher. That the Speaker bo rcqnosted to forward a copy of this resolution and a oopy of tho Auditor-General's report to the gentlemen against whom tho charges wero mado," ' SPEECH BY MR, TAYLOR Mr, Taylor said it would bo obvious to members that Mr, McNab's omendmont had been disposed of. Mr. Taylor went on to say that ho know nothing about tho matter until Mr, Fisher mentioned it in tho Honso, nor did ho know that ho was going to mention it. As to tho Sneddon aid Seddon vouchers, lie pointed out that thore could be no possibility of confusion,' Mr. Sneddon had merely signed as tho authorised agont (or Andersons, Limited, and tho clerks in the oftico woro thoroughly familiar with his signature. Ho was not propared to say that ho had every confidence in tho Audit-Department system of rocords, norliadtho P'fltnin' every eonfidonoo in tho Department in 1900, Willi?, ho wont on to say, was doniod access to certain Treasury books, and he. contended that ho was batldd in his search Ho (Mr, Taylor) would doliboratoly say that he had it on what ho considered most excellent authority that one of the officials in tho public service in Wellington during tho past woek had declarod that dospito the Auditor-General's report a record of tho oxistenco of such a voucher was in the office a few weeks ago, and must havo been destroyed by some mothod sines tho niombor for Wellington had mentioned this matter, Thcro was tho ohallengo, and his witnossos declared that that was their belief.

REMAKES BY SIR J. WARD Sir Josoph Ward asked Mr' Taylor whether it was in ovideuca that payment was mado by Treasury chequo ? Did Mr Taylor mean that tho cheque had boon destroyed? Replying to Mr Fisher, ho pointed out that his romarks woro inconsistent with tho tortus of tho loiter ho had written to tho Premier, when ho freely and frankly accepted the decision of the Auditor-General so far as the payment to Captain Seddon was concerned, Sir Josoph wont on to describo tho '"system of records, to show that if any such voucher as alleged had over existed there must still bo torn record ofhVnndlio wont on to say that some of tho officials at Cliristchurch had broken the regulation by disolosing information which they woro bound to keep soorot. If it was thought a criminal act was being committed tho officers should have reported it to their superior officer,by whom it would havo been reported to tho Minister, Their duty was clour, and thoy had botrayod thoir trust, and yet on tho ovideueo of such mon Mr Fisher wanted tho House to boliovo that Messrs Hcywood, Collins and Gray had perjured themselves. Mr Fisher: Nonsense. Sir ,1, Ward declared that that was tho inference to bo drawn from Mr Fisher's remarks. Uo went on to contond that a full opportunity had boon gi<'on the Ohristchurch officers to find tho vouchor if it existed, and if tho Auditor-Gouoral had any doubt on tho subject ho would havo said so. Ho beliovod Mr Fisher was first Misled by a Christchnrcli pott-oflieo official, and that tho same official ■ misled him about tho allegod improper payment for a wi'oiitli, With regard to tho dili'oront signatures ot Captain Soddon, Sir Josoph pointed out that it wasacommon thing lor a nmn to nso ono signature for cheques and another for lotas, etc. Tho doliato wcb interrupted by tho 5.80 adjournmoi t. Tho House rosiimod at 7,80. Tho voucher debate proceeded throughout tho ovening, Mr. Laurcnsen admitted that tho weight) of ovidonco waß overwhelmingly against any payinont whatever having been mado to Captain Seddon for reorganising the defence stores, It was suggested m the caurso of debate that tho wlmlo lliinttwns based on tho hallucinations ot llin Ghristchurcli postal officials, but Mr. Fisher ridiculed this sug. goiition. . i Mr. tieddon said that as (o tliono officials thoro would ha ut Depai'tmonlal iiftjairy, and it would be private or public, us tho Governor in Connoil dotormined, Mr. Mnasoy said ho was in complete accord with thu Auditor-General's report, but ho objoctod to the iVomior'tt proposal to inljrfi'rc with Hansard. He also thought Mr. McMab's amondmout was unnecessary. Eventually Mr McNab's amondmout was carried by 48 to 14. Mr Bedford then moved an omonduiont affirming tho necessity for n public inquiry into tho mattor of tho vouohor. To this Mr Hall-Jonee moved "the provious qtiostion," which wii3 agrood to on tho voices. Mr Koddou'a motion, as amended by the addition of Mr McNab'a amondmout, was carried by 47 to 5. Tho House rose at '2 a.u