PARLIAMENT.

Wanganui Herald, Volume LIII, Issue 160722, 7 August 1920, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES (Per United Press Association.) WELLINGTON, August 6. The House met iat 2.30. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. .Replying to Mr Wilford, Mr Massey said temporary clerks in the Public Service would participate in the bonus to be granted, on the same scale as permanent officials. The Premier, in reply to Mr Wright, said it- was also intended that members of the New Zealand Ordnance Corps should participate in the bonus. Replying to Mr Horn, the Hon. Lee said he would look into the advisability of introducing the weka (Maori hen) into Samoa as a means of destroying the rhinoccrons beetle. Replying to Mr Witty, Mr Massey said when motor car legislation comes before the House, members will have an opportunity of considering the advisability of making it compulsory for every driver of a motor car to qualify for a license of efficiency, and also making it compulsory for every sale of a motor car to be registered. Replying to Mr Fraser, Air Massey said it would be possible to pay out the increased wages to other Branches oi the Railway Service without waiting ior the result oi the engine-driver s’ hj allot. He thought the Treasury would be able to commence payment on Monday week. Replying to Mr Witty, Mr Massey said he would advise him if he thinks the step advisable, when the municipal corporations amendment is before the House, to move an amendment permitting the honorarium of the Mayors of the four cities to be increased. Replying to Mr Smith (Taranaki), Hon. Lee said the Government would not refund to defendants CouAb costs in cases brought against individuals by the Board of Trade for profiteering and where the cases had been dismissed. NEW ZEALAND’S POPULATION. Mr Massey, in the course of a statement, said that in consequence of something which had been said in the House that there were some 20,000 more women in the Dominion than men, he desired to correct that misstatement, and he had asked the Statistician to give him the figures, which were as follows: On 31st December, 1919, males 588,888, females 575,517, a surplus of 137,371 males over females. That was over the whole population, but the numbers of males and females over 15 years were as follows: Males 406,680, females 390,224, or a surplus of males over females of 16,656. Mr Holland, by way of explanation, said he had taken his figures fom tho last Year Book. Mr Massey reminded Mr Holland that he had forgotten that the Year Book figures were compiled while soldiers were out of the country. THE ESTIMATES. The House then went into committee to consider the Estimates, Treasury Department, .£80,872, being the first to come under review. In reply to questions, Mr Massey said the amount of loan money raised at 4-1 per cent, free of income tax was .£50,107,383. On the question of increasing the superannuation of retired Civil Servants, he said the Government had desired to do something last year, but the financial position had not permitted. He was sure the financial position had much improved in the meantime, but he would consider the matter again, and if anything could be done it would be done by fixing the minimum rate of superannuation. ,Mr Holland said' the contract made between the Government and Civil Servants should be honoured. The only way to do this was to bring superannuation up to the value of the £1 sterling at the time the contract was made. He moved to reduce the first item in tho vote by £1 as an indication to the Government that this should be done. Mr Massey, in the course of discussion, said the Government was as sympathetic as anyone else with superannuated servants. At present they were doing their best to keep down the cost of living, and were spending £400,000 annually in keeping down the price of butter and bread. He would certainly go into the matter again, and perhaps in two months’ time be able to do something. On a division the amendment was lost by 35 to 19. Replying to Air Sidey, Mr Alassey said he had made temporary arrangements with the Union Company for the carriage of Southern members to and from their homes free of charge. He, however, thought this charge should be defrayed out of the Consolidated Fund, and the House would be given an opportunity of dealing with the matter prqbably next week. The vote was then passed. National Provident and Friendly Society Department, £36,340; Land and Income Tax Department, £50,578; Pensions Department, £65,958; were passed without discussion. NAVAL DEFENCE. Naval Defence, £260,075, was tho next vote taken. Mr Wilford moved to reduce the vote by £1 as an indication to the Government that the policy of bringing out H.M.S. Chatham without first consulting Parliament, and committing the country to an expenditure of £270,075, was not correct. He also protested against the fact that the Government £ad not given the House an opportunity of discussing Lord Jellicoe’s report, and so preventing members assisting to develop the naval policy of the Dominion. Mr Massey said the position had been put most unfairly. Lord Jellicoe’s report could not be discussed last session because there was no time if the elections were to be held before Christmas. An opportunity would be given to discuss the report, but ho was not sure whether that should be done before Lord Jellicoe arrived here and was able to give the Government the benefit of bis advice. As to the Chatham, Lord Jellicoe had told him she would fit in exactly with his plans, and she would he extremely useful in protecting our trade routes and policing the South Pacific. VVe did not know when war would break out again. Last time we were not prepared. We should not be caught napping again. As to the Chatham becoming obsolete, the same could be said of any ship, but when she did become obsolete, then we could get a better one. The discussion, was proceeding when the House adjourned at 5.30. The House resumed at 7 30. Discussion on the Estimates was continued by Dr. Newman, who believed a flotilla of submarines and some aeroplanes would be more useful than a cruiser and would cost no more. The cruiser of tne class provided for could not fight an enemy battleship, and was not fast enough to run away. Air Massey pointed out that cruisers were absolutely necessary, and the cruiser Chatham was only the first of several that would form a unit of New Zealand’s naval defence scheme. Submarines had no chance against cruisers and destroyers.

Mr Mitchell thought it necessary to have cruisers as well as submarines, even though the amount of the upkeep of the Chatham was more than Now Zealand was at present paying, but even that was not really New Zealand's full share of the cost of naval defence and keeping the seas free. Mr Kellett thought the question was above the capacity of laymen such an members. He suggested the matter bo held over till Lord Jellicoe’s arrival. The Hon. C. J. Parr pointed out that New Zealand must contribute a unit to the Pacific Fleet. It was* for the beginning of that policy that the Estimates provided. In the event of "war the New Zealand unit would combine with tho Australian, Canadian, and English units of the China station to meet any enemy likely to threaten a British country in the Pacific. New Zealand’s proportion of this scheme would bo 5 per cent., and this vote provided for tho beginning of the scheme which Lord Jellicoo suggested should he completed within six years. Mr Lysnar objected to the establish ment of an independent New Zealand navy like that of Australia, because .this Dominion's population was too small. Ho believed it would he better to increase the monetary contribution to the Imperial Navy to the same proportionate cost per head as the people of England paid—about £2. Ho supported the proposal, however, as a proper step in the schema of naval deteuce. Mr Statham considered New Zealand had got on. lightly in the past in the matter of the cost of naval defence. Tho Horae could not do other than accept and act on tho advice of the Empire’s leading experts. It might he said that tho late war taught people the tremendous value of sea power. New Zealand’s great need in the war would he cruisers such as the Chatham, capable of dealing with enemy raiders. Mr Holland opposed anything that would lead to militarism. This vote was for the beginning of a naval defence scheme. W hat was it going to lead to? Mr Holland disagreed with those who thought they saw a menace in the Japanese people to the welfare of the Pacific countries. The Japanese did not thrive under colonisation schemes. Mr Wilford considered that, in the event of war, an enemy would strike, at the grlat arterial sea routes, not at small countries like New Zealand. Tho only proper contribution of the Dominion to the Empire naval defence scheme was a financial contribution. New Zealand would thus gain more than by having a second-class cruiser here. Mr Glenn supported the vote, recalling tho work of the warships used in convoying troops over the soa during tho wax. Mr Atmorc opposed anything in the nature of a local navy, against which they had voted in years gone past. We must have defence, but we must bo protected against militarism. That defence must be of a most effective sort, which he believed was to be found in a direct payment to the Imperial Navy, not in tinkering with a local navy. The Prime Minister said it was not an attempt to establish a local navy. We must have defence, and lie believed this proposal was the best means of securing that end. Mr Massey said ho could not understand the opposition to his acceptance of this cruiser. Ho had consulted the acting-leader of the Government at tlic time. He had mentioned ths matter in the House last session, and no one raised any objection. Sir Heaton Rhodes said that for many years he had thought the best plan was for Now Zealand to pay a contribution to Britain. He had changed his ideas, and thought the only thing to be done now was to start with the scheme propounded by Lord Jellicoe. Mr Parry complained that this and other Governments had failed to redeem tho promises to the people that the late war would end war. He would oppose the vote. Mr Stewart said the great value of tho proposal lay in the fact that it would incorporate the principle of local personal service. A cash payment was well enough in its time, but now wo had a Government strong enough wo must take a greater share, in naval defence. It was not enough to throw our money on the counter and say, “Here’s our money. Now you’ve got to protect us.” If that was our attitude, if we were not going to take a greater personal interest, then wo might just as well hire foreign mercenaries to fight for us. • Mr Stewart could not understand Labour’s attitude, as if any party was more concerned than another in the matter of defence it was Labour. Ho could not agree with Labour’s suggested civilian army, paid at trade union rates. One very serious effect would ho to create another professional military caste. Mr Smith (Taranaki), as a true rep rcsentative of the workers, believed tho great body of the people were proud of tho British Navy, and would not grudge expenditure on naval insurance, but before voting’ for the proposal he would like to see all the cards of the Government’s naval proposal on the tabic. Messrs Horn and Luke supported the proposal. Mr Seddon opposed the vote. At 10.£S the vote was passed without a division. INDUSTRIES AND COMMERCE. Department of Industries and Commerce, ,£554,642. Mr Wilford asked the Government to keep an eye on the American shipping laws, also to appoint a live agent at ’Frisco and pay him a proper salary. 'The present agent was in receipt of .£IOO a vear, and could not be expected to devote much time to tho affairs of the Dominion. Mr Massey promised that tho matters would receive attention. Mr Fraser wanted to know whether the Government was going to give the Prices Tribunal more power, or whether they were going to continue ’ the present farce. Mr Wilford quoted some heavy fines imposed m America on profiteers, and said he was of opinion wo should not only fine 1 hem here, but the lash should he added. He said! the Government was considering the introduction of a Bill dealing with profiteering. Mr Witty declared that butter and cheese should not fao allowed to soar in price in New Zealand until our own people were fed. He would not go so far as to apply the lash to profiteers, hut he would imprison them. Fines would never stop it. Mr Jennings could not understand how we could step the bookmaker by law when we could not stop the profiteer. The Hon. Lee defended the prices tribunals’ dealing with small things. These Boards were doing excellent work, and it did not help if members sought to belittle their efforts. Mr Bitchener defended wheat growers against charges of ‘'going slow,” They had loyally risen to tho call of patriotism made to them by tho Premier. Mr Parry quoted a resolution passed by tho Canterbury wheat growers, who declared that unless the price they