NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

Westport Times, Volume IV, Issue 686, 19 July 1870, Page 2

NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

THE DEBATE ON THE BUDGET. Wellington, Tuesday. Mr. Rich resumed the debate this afternoon. He spoke in favour of the Ministerial scheme. Mr. Ludlam followed, and wished to discuss the measure free from partyconsideration. He attached no importance to hasty expression of public opinion of it, and trusted no decision would be arrived at until people had an opportunity of reading the opinions expressed by members of the House during the prsent debate. Mr. Tancred thought it the maddest of all schemes. He saw the colony could not go on without borrowing, 0 ".d."-™ En ' r ' c "'" r ' '* , '"? at to swallow ton millions at once and not go on nibbling at smaller sums. He would vote for the entire Government proposal, He concluded amidst laughter. Mr. Stafford was not in the House this afternoon It is said he speaks to night. Extradordinary interest continues to be felt regarding him by the House and country generally. Mr. Kynnersley took his seat to-day. The House resumed at seven o'clock There was an immense audience on the stairs and outside. Mr. Stafford rose amidst general cheering. He said he never beforeattemptedto speak under a sense of greater responsibility than when considering the Treasurer's Financial Statement, whether as regarded the mngniatude of the proposals, their effect on the country, or the mode of carrying them out. From the close of the last session down to the present moment, the subject of Immigration and Public Works had engaged public attention. It was generally said the responsibility of measures of this nature, and their extent, rested upon the Government; but he held that questions of such vast importance, affecting the future weal or woe of the country, rested equally on all members of the House. It might be said the Government exhibited good generalship in mixing up a colonization scheme with their budget. However, it was exceedingly inconvenient, as it -vas impossible in one speech to devote that time to elucidating both propositions. The Government could not justly claim the paternity of this scheme. His friend Mr. Fitzherbert first enunciated the idea in his well-known correspondence with Lord Granville ; and himself also, on the second reading of the Otago Land Bill, intimated his disinclination to perpetuate continual small Provincial borrowinf»s,'which interfered with any great scheme which ought to be undertaken by the colony. Mr. Kolleston had also recently drawn public attention to the same matter. He was agreeably surprised, however, to find Mr. Fox hadcomplelely altered his views. Without goinu: back to the time when the Premier hoped the colony would not be able to borrow sixpence, he referred to his recent speeches. He rejoiced that the Colonial Treasurer had converted him, and he trusted ha would remain stedfast to his new convictions, and for ever discard his old views regarding Provincialism. He hoped the House would carefully consider and modify the proposed measures so that they might be made workable and permanently successful. He also hoped Mr Vogel would convert Mr Fox to his views on education, and prevent people from retrogading from civilization to savagery and barbarism. He regarded the statement of the Commissioners in London as most unfortunate, that the colony did not intend borrowing any more. They were not only Commissioners, but members of the Ministry, and as much responsible as other ministers in binding the colony I

to their statement. He trusted no bad result would ensue from the unfortunate occurrence. He considered it also unfortunate to the proposed borrowing of six millions—in reality thirteen millions—at the time the Imperial Government promised to recommend Parliament to guarantee one million. He dreaded discussion in the House of Commons and the statements certain to be made that New Zealand would not be justified, under existing circumstances, in borrowing even one million. This would create a difficulty in the money mar ket for the proposed six or ten million scheme. He complained of the Financial Statement being sent home before it was adopted or modified by the House. The scheme as delivered he thought would defeat its own object. No new idea was contained in it ; its principal ones being as old as many members sitting round him. He promised to give his best assistance in inproying details of the scheme, and making it acceptable to the world. tie thought the Immigration portion of the plan painfully crude, and as it were thrown down on the floor of the House. He made important suggestions of improvement respecting young married couples, and unmarried women, and young couples with children, selected from the south and west of England, the Lothians of Scotland, and parts of Ireland. Great improvements were needed also in providing means of employment on the arrival of immigrants ; giving permission to portions to leave public works and assist in harvest operations, returning to public employment on producing certificates of good conduct. He considered it necessary to override all Provincial land regulations. There were large parts of the Middle Poland where it was impossible working men could obtain a foot of land to call their own. He would establish villages, apportioning sufficient land to feed a few cows for each family, compensating land owners, and compelling them to relinquish land when necessary. Immigrants would be equally well cared for after arrival as on the passage out. He quoted Mr Vogel's speech, delivered in 1863, when he charged Government with intending to get money into their hands, and chancing results. If this were the case when borrowing three millions, it seemed worse when borrowing thirteen millions. He strongly objected to several rival Immigration Agents in England being appointed. He related how the London agents from Auckland and Canterbury tried to injure the provinces they were not acting for. He hoped to see the General Agent authorized to act on a national scale. He promised to discuss all duUiilo, ' modification©, and improvements in no carping spirit or hostile criticism. He was convinced, however, that with regard to railways the House should be asked every year to indicate where lines should be proceeded with. He urged that one of the first railways should be to open the fertile country round Mount Egmont to Wanganui. He objected to one from Taupo down to "Wanganui as simply a war measure, and if so, Government should not attempt to borrow money under the plea of colonization and reproductive works. He was not disposed to agree to a vote for £200,000; nevertheless, he thought that the House was not yet thrown off" its balance. He was of opinion that Government should not bo land jobbers. He considered that the Treasurer should have reduced taxation on certain articles, substituting others. He declined criticizing details; this was not the time to do so. He contented himself with expressing his approval of the principle, but assured the honorable gentlemen he was actuated by an honest desire to assist the Government, but desired that their scheme should be placed in such a state that it should meet with success. He concluded with an effective allusion to himself for the part he had taken in connection with the Government of the colony, and as his children and family were all settled here, he trusted he might be permitted iu improving the measure before the House so as to benefit the country. Mr Stafford sat down amidst loud cheers. Mr Macandrew followed. He thought the colony could borrow twenty millions. Mr M'Gillvray spoke in favor of the scheme. Mr Gilles disapproved of the scheme, and was opposed to his natural allies, the Government. All parties in the House are thoroughly disorganized, and it is expected the result will he that the scheme will be remitted for the decision of the country.

Wellington, Thursday Night. The political position is curious at present. Every member is expected to speak on the Financial resolutions. Mr Reader Wood last night moved the adjournment of the debate, and at the same time gave notice of an amendment, to the effect " that the committee, while approving of the general principle of the schemes of Colonisation and Immigration, prefer submitting the whole to the consideration of a new Parliament." Mr Collins resumed the debate yesterday. He said it was not without a severe mental struggle that he had determined to oppose the whole Q-overnment scheme by every means in his power. It was a scheme which would be supported by every publican, and by hundreds of storekeepers, who were now tottering on the verge of iusolvency. The hon. Mr Pox followed. He

was very warmly received, and promised that he would try to divest himself of every particle of party spirit. The Government did not claim the exclusive paternity of the scheme. It was not meant for a hustings cry, but had been under the consideration of the Cabinet since October last. The scheme would extend over more than one general election. He ably reviewed the arguments of all the previous speakers, creating great amusement by hi.s criticism of some of the speeches. He highly eulogised Mr Stafford for the impartial and truly patriotic manner in which he had dealt with the subject on the previous night. He (Mr Fox) confessed that his views had greatly changed, that he was a progressive mn.n, and regarded a large loan as a matter of expediency. He characterised Mr Gilles's speech as a lawyer's special pleading. He trusted that he (Mr Fox) mi ht live to give his feeble cheers to th policy though he were denied the pleasure of carrying it out; and concluded a most eloquent address, amidst prolonged cheering. Mr John Hall bitterly opposed the Colonial Taeasurer's plans, suggesting that the bills should be left to be dealt with by a new Parliament. M r Kynnersley thought that as soon as the public works were stopped, there would be 150,000 peopleclamoring at an empty Treasury. He approved of a portion of the scheme, the £200,000 for goldfielda water supply ; but protested on behalf of the 10,000 miners he represented against the pro tective tariff.