Nelson Provincial Council
MONDAY, May 9. AH the members were present except Messrs. Jlacraahon and Tarrant. The Committee on the Wangapeka. Mr. Reid moved, "That the select committee appointed to consider paragraphs numbered 4 in his Honor the Superintendent s speech be discharged." He imagined there was little necessity for him to give iny elaborate explanations as to the reasons for bringing on this motion. It was right, however, in deference to the feelings of the gentlemen who had been appointed on the committee, to state why he' asked for their discharge from the fulfilment of duties which they as yet had had no opportunity of performing. It was due also to the. sense of the Council to show that he did not introduce that which seemed to play battledore and shuttlecock with the notice paper, and with the time and patience of members, without having good reasons for so doing. These he would briefly state. When Mr. Luckie introduced his motion for a committee to enquire into the Wangapeka question, it was felt by several members of the Council that the motion was not sufficient to fulfil the object desired to be arrived at. It was feared that such a committee would be merely doing things bv halves, and not giving that attention to the Government management of affairs, or meting out that full measure of justice which he, for one, believed that management merited. In fact, it was something like great oirlce sailing—it was taking a circuitous and elaborate method of arriving at a conclusion which might be more easily and directly reached. It was better, he thought, to steam straight up to what he might be permitted to term the enemy, and test the thickness of his iron plates by a direct broadside. What he meant by this metaphor was that the Council was quite as prepared now, as it would be after any report from a committee, to arrive at a conclusion which he believed would be found to prevail in the minds of a majority of the Council. He would not say what that conclusion would be, but he would be mistaken if it did not prove to be unfavorable to the Government, and on that one matter alone a reflection on the proceedings of the Government. This was one and a sufficient reason for the discharge of the committee; but there were others. The' address in reply to the Superintendent's speech was utterly without meaning if it did not anticipate that the subjects raised in that speech were to be dealt with generally at the most convenient opportunity. One of the subjects referred to in his Honor's speech was that of the appointment of a Commissioner, who was also Warden, Resident Magistrate, and a member of the Executive in the person of Mr. Kynnersley. He thought that proposed appointment suggested many things, and •specially whether the Government had not directly xmtributed to the necessity for such au appointment, if it were necessary, by the direct neglect of the duty which they should have themselves discharged. Jffhere was a feeling that this necessity arose from f ihe oriental lassitude which some might call the Ijjnlimited laziness acquired by the chief officer of this , province under the ■ influence of what outsiders ?jatirically styled the somniferous concavity of Nelson. {{These were only two of the reasons which justified Ihii action. There were other matters which lie need j'not fully refer to, but which rendered it necessary fopenly to discuss the conduct of the Government. Ho t'did not propose this motion merely as one of an opposition, which one of the journals had preferred to as already existing in the Council. Neither [did he, in thus opening the way for a motion on the (general question, consider that he was impeding by ;" petty squables" "the real work of the session." [That was the most ordinary of ordinary newspaper | clap-trap,— (hear, hear, and laughter,)—and he | thought his slight professional experienco enabled i him to recognise that article when he saw it. He ; thought that by this motion, and the motion to | which it was preliminary, they were taking the true | course to promote the work of the session, and |to discharge their duty to their constituents and ' the Province. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Gibbs seconded the motion. I Mr. Luckie shortly explained his reasons for [agreeing to the discharge of the committee, which [wbb proposed out of a desire to take the Government |oa what was deemed their own ground, that of dis- ' cussing the subjects in the speech in detail. But •that was considered to limit too much the action and iacope of the Council, and prevent full expression of opinion, and hence the alteration. I The motion was then put and passed.
TUESDAY, Mat 10. t An the members were present, and a very large I audience occupied the space set apart for the public: f DEBATE ON THE NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION. Mr. Luckik moved "That the Government of this t as at present constituted, does not possess I the confidence of this Council." Ho begun by stating that he earnestly desired that an older I member had undertaken the task which had been I laid upon him; and he repudiated with the eonI Kempt which he said men of generous open mind I must feel respecting the charges which had been I repeatedly made both to members of the Council E and out of doors, that the present action was t .undertaken by him from motives of personal ||ianimoßity to his Honor the Superintendent. He up the subject on purely public grounds, and as ■ representing the feelings of a large number of the When a question of public duty, and the g just representation of the opinions of the public at m. large were concerned, no independent man, desiring p- nothing for himself, could fail to feel other than I jcontempt for such charges ; and had they not been |: sedulously circulated, he should not have referred to I -them here. But the circulation of such accusations §■ "Was a part of an arranged policy, intended to shake I the faith of members and the public in the righteous* | hess and truth of the motion, and to draw r them away from the real question at issue, the |b conduct and management of the Government, |. and to try to narrow it to a mere quesgj;tion of contemptible personality. Giving this K./,charge the fullest contradiction he could give, ipand leaving it to any unprejudiced mind to judge if; whether there were any grounds for it, he proceeded speak to the motion. For some time past they had frequent complaints as to the unfortunate f.. position of the finances of this Province. Numerous | works, frequently proposed and provided for, it had | been found necessary to withhold or abandon. But { he could not forget that three years ago, when the | present Chief took office, there was to the credit of the Province a sum of £12,000, which had been impropriated for a dock, and that sum had now * disappeared, and where was the dock? He would admit that a certain falling on" in the revenue necessarily reduced the money which was available, but, at the same time, here they had the I _ Chief of the Province entering upon his duties with a balance at command, yet the result had been jtliat, after a brief term, repeated miscalculations as to the condition of the Province had year after year been made until an immense deficit was shown. In the first year of the prosent Government the revenue was •stimated at £115,000, while the actual revenue was £136,000 leaving an surplus of £21,000, yet the expenditure exceeded the actual revenue by £BSOO, which |j was the sum owing to the Bank at the end of that year. In the second year, the ostimated revenue was £144,000. The actual revenue was under £OO,OOO, showing a deficit of £45,000; and this was tho year of the great financial blunder of which they never had had any satisfactory explanation. Instead of being warned by the experience of these years, and calculating that the revenue would be somewhat less, seeing that in the third year also there was a deficit of £IB,OOO, yet in this present year the estimates were brought down, showing an expected revenue of £90,000. It was difficult to see on what grounds such an expectation was based. They certainly hod very brilliant reports from the Wardens on the goldfields, who all seemed to look through highly colored spectacles, and were always asserting or implying that a grand future was before their particular district*.. These promises, however, had not bten rwliNd, «ul it seemed to him. to. b« wmevrhat
a mistake Id repeat year after year such large and unjustified estimates. The simple result was that many of the most important works which the Council were desirous of having accomplished were left undone, leaving the Council without a single voice in the ultimate allocation of the money. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the speech of his Honor, he could not but observe with some regret that the same statement as to reductions in the departmental expenditure which had been made last year—statements to which he and others took exception—were again repeated. (Hear, hear.) And here he must observe a remarkable fact, very suggestive of the condition of the Goldfields, and how slightly figures could be relied on. It was a remarkable fact, as stated in the speech, that " the amount received for duty on gold exported from the Province showed a considerable decline," the miscellaneous Goldfields' revenue from miners' rights and business licenses had, on the contrary, materially increased. This was entirely unexplained, and, coming from a Government, and in a speech like this, there should be ample explanation of such a discrepancy, and something should have been said of the means to remedy this. (Hear, hear.) There must be some cause for this, and he hoped it could be satisfactorily explained. On the face of it, it certainly showed a peculiar state of things on the West Coast, and while they had thus an increase in business licenses, &0., and a decrease in the gold duty, on what grounds could they rely upon the high-flown promises contained in the manifold Wardens' reports ? Eeferring to the departmental expenditure, he said that for the fifth or sixth time credit was taken for a reduction of £12,000, which nobody could understand, and for a balance also of £ISOO, voted for departmental purposes, remaining unexpended. For this latter saving no credit could be fairly taken, for it was associated chiefly with contingent expenses, and it was certainly no credit that, in such a case as Supreme Court witnesses' expense, £66 only should be expended out of a vote of £2OO. No thanks were due to the Superintendent for saving £ISOO in such items, of which the chief part of this was composed. Coming then to the Estimates as they now stood, in the message which his Honor had sent down enclosing the Estimates, reference was made to another large reduction of £3423. He had gone over the Estimates, and in every instance he found that the reductions referred to were in contingencies, not in actual expenses, and repeated credit was also taken for reductions which were previously made by , his Honor or the Council. He read the items in ' detail, and he condemned this retrospective treatment of items as only misleading and effecting a merely nominal saving, for it would have been expenditure which it would be absolutely sinful to make ; these items amounting to £3937, which was rather more than is taken credit for by his Honor in his speech. He could only compare it to the manager of a business which was falling off claiming credit for not employing a large staff for whom there was no work. Relative to this subject of finance, and in connection with the Waterworks, he referred to a remarkable circumstance which had only a few days previously come to his knowledge. It appeared that during the currency of each month, the Collector deposited his collections in thebankin his own name, and periodically or,at hisown discretionvpaid the money by cheque to the Superintendent on Provincial account. Such an arrangement, he could not help thinking, was a most extraordinary one, and anything but creditable to a Government professing proficiency in the matter of financial management. (Hear, hear.) Credit, it would be noticed, was also taken for a reduction of the Provincial balance due to the Bank, but the credit of this was due simply to the starvation of works which were greatly demanded, and this showed that the votes which had been passed last year had been to a great extent unexpended. (Hear, hear.) Reference had been made by the Superintendent to the goldfields staff, and towards the close of his speech he bespoke the consent of the Council to the reinstatement of Mr. Kynnersley as Commissioner. Going back to his Honor's speech, in 1869, what was found ? This assertion: —
" The Commissionership of the South-weist Goldfields having become vacant by the resignation of Mr. Kynnersley, I have not thought it necessary to appoint a successor to that office, when ordinary duties can, now that a line of telegraph has been established throughout the district as well as at head quarters, be efficiently performed by the Beveral Wardens, while the more settled character of the goldfields renders the services of a resident officer with large powers, positively* unnecessary." If this were true then, on what possible grounds could it be shown to be untrue now, with a reduced population, a diminished revenue, and not greatly better prospects than existed last year ? (Hear, hear.) Last year it was stated that such an officer was " positively unnecessary," and yet they were told, twelve months after, and when the Province was showing a backward tendency, that such a necessity existed. If such a multiplicity of offices were to be created, well might the public say that far too much was expended on offices and salaries. (Hear, hear.) In saying this, he believed he expressed the feeling of all the people of the Province. (Hear, hear.) So unsatisfactory and so completely contradictory was this proposal that somo good roason would require to bo given for it. While speaking of this appointment, he could not but call the attention of the Council to the closing paragraph of Mr. Kynnersley's letter to bis Honor. It seemed to him to be such a large piece of presumption on the part of an official in the position of Mr. Kynnersley, that he failed altogether to understand how the Superintendent and Executive could suggest such an appointment. It seemed, however, that they had approved of his proposals, lor he found that the estimates given ' by Mr. Kynnersley were, figure for figure, included in the Estimates table by the Government. If they were to be told, as they were told, by an officer who had been richly rewarded for his services, that his estimates must be passed with little or no change, or that he would not undertake the duties which himself proposed, they might as well close th,e Council, and say, "Messieurs, the Superintendent and Exeoutive Council, do exactly as you please, and we shall be your humble and obedient servants." (Hear, hear, and laughter.) They had not come to that yet, and would submit to nothing of the kind. The paragraph was one calculated to raise the ire of the Council, and that the Superintendent concurred with Mr. Kynnersley was self-evident. The Province was suifering from depression, lessened, perhaps, compared with last year, and although they might hope for aqme-r thing like a change, it was not likely to be so lessened as to warrant this appointment and all that it involved. Referring to the matters of the railway and the dock, the money which was to be spent on the dock had (ho said) been frittered away, and it was impossible to discover any one of the reproductive works which were to be undertaken by the new regime. But these and other points occupied only a secondary place compared with the Wangapeka land sales. (Hear, hear.) He had listened to his Honor's references to this subject with regret, and recognised it as a repetition of the error originally made, and a throwing down of the gauntlet to those who strove, quite as much as his Honor, to do their duty to the Province. Making but brief reference to circumstances which were generally known, and upon which there was an unmistakable public decision, he referred to the fact of its being known nine years ago by Dr. Hochstetter that Wangapeka was auriferous—so well known that Dr. HQchitetter. in his book, quoted, as a common nursery rhymo, the lines:— " Gold! gold! fine rich gold, Wangapeka! Tuapeka! Gold, gold, gold I" (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Jf this wns a part of the familiar ballad literature of New JJealand, in 1861, the real character of Wangapeka ought to be well known. On the subject of the so-called " forcible resistance " of the miners to the survey of land they legally possessed, he maintained that according to Judge Richmond's own law, the miners did no more
* On Wednesday night the Superintendent sent down a message, stating that there was a misprint in the Blue Book containing the speech from which the above quotation is made. That it should have read " comparatively unnecessary," as it appeared in thesis, and, the Gazette,
than they were perfectly entitled to do to prevent encroachment or trespass. He referred to the petition received from Alfred Culliford, and asked if the Council was prepared to grant compensation to Culliford, what compensation could be given to miners j who were prevented from working, and spent every penny they possessed by living in enforced idleness through the enormous blunder whioh the Government had committed ? (Hear, hear.) The Government, whose duty it was to hold the balance of justice even between the claimants, and to give just effect to the administration of the law, had taken steps respecting the land sales which were altogether in favor of the purchasers, instead of on behalf of what were now found to be the legal occupiers of the ground. [Hear, hear, and " No, no," from the Provincial Solicitoh.] He would undertake to produce documentary evidence in reply to that •' no." It was notorious the land was auriferous, and not rural land; he denied the accuracy of the Superintendent's term of " free selection," and also showed the fallacy of the argument regarding the power to stop the sale. The Superintendent said: — " The Secretary for Crown Lands (Mr. Domett) expressed an opinion that such a power must be taken to be implied, but as he immediately afterwards quoted a decision of the late Justice Stephen, f excluding suoh an inference in the case of laud withheld by myself (Mr. Domett), you will probably consider the decision of the Supreme Court upon a question of law to bo of greater authority than the opinion of Mr. Domett." He wished to draw particular attention to this, because it was only a half quotation, which kept out the facts of the case. The facts were not only not identical, but widely different, as had been repeatedly shown ; the lands in the latter case had been offered for sale, were put on the board in the Land Office, and were liable to be purchased by anyone, which was not the case with the Wangapeka land. (Hoar, hear.) The statement make by Mr. Domett which was noticed in the speech was really this : " I am aware that the late Mr. Justice Stephen gave a decision excluding such an inference in a case of land withheld from sale by myself; but the case was not fully argued before the Judge, and his own decision involves statements either at variance with the facts of the case which he had not been informed of, or are really altogether beside the question actually at issue. My opinion on this point i 8 certainly that the power ought to be held to be in the Commissioner of Crown Lands, constructively or by inference."
Had the Government acted with ordinary judgment and wisdom, the Wangapeka difficulty would never have occurred. He then went over a few of the points of law, as set forth in the Waste Lands Act, and asserted the fallacy of the interpretations which had been put on these, stating that after seeing so many utter misconceptions of the law On the part of the Government, he should most certainly prefer the unbiassed opinion of the high legal authority of the Attorney-General, to that of the Superintendent. He also compared the statement of the Superintendent with regard to the disturbances at Addison's Flat, with the action of the Government against the legal occupants of the mining claims at Wangapeka. In the former case, his Honor, in his speech of 1868, expressed confident hope that, if necessary, the Council would " support him in maintaining peace and good order, and in protecting every man in the exercise of his lawful occupation." That was at Addison's Flat. How did he protect the Wangapeka miners while they were in pursuit of their " lawful occupation ?" He quoted the letter of the Provincial Secretary instructing Mr. Warden Broad to carry on the survey, and arrest men who should oppose encroachments on their legal rights. This was an assumption of the powers of a Judge such as he had never before witnessed. (Hear, hear.) It was simply the issue of an order to a magistrate to complete a foregone conclusion, and to arrest a man for an alleged offence, which the Superintendent, through the Provincial Secretary, wa9 endeavoring to create. (Hear, hear.) Had this order been executed, the whole Colony would have rung with the re-echoing of the results of such a sample of " Justice's justice." The Superintendent further laid the loss his action had created on the miners. That loss rested entirely on the shoulders of the Superintendent and his advisers, for to their mismanagement, to their misunderstanding of the law they were supposed to administer, to their disregard of facts, and to their too tender regard for the socalled purchasers, was entirely due the unfortunate loss and great discouragement which the Province had sustained. (Hear, hear.) He would not tire the Council by repeating old arguments, which, though perfectly sound, had been more than once advanced, to the full conviction of the mass of the people of this Province, and the Colony where it was known. He said it was always a bad sign when a weak apologist came forward to condone a palpable wrong. He found it stated in one of the prints, that whatever might be the opinion of the public, there was no doubt his Honor had aoted from " most conscientious motives," and had followed the course he had adopted from a " serious conviction that he was right." This reminded him very much of an old Scotch lady who, in the time the broad Doric was still spoken, even in the higher families of the country gentry and when the language was less careful and ceremonious than at present. This old lady was having recommended to her a female domestic as " a verv decent woman." " Dawm her decency," said the old dame, " can she cook a collop ?" (Laughter.) So with the Superintendent's conscientious motives and settled convictions. Wc took them as a matter of course, they belonged to gentlemen. But we want more than these, we want competency, ability to see and do what was right, to cook the political collop, and rightly administer the affairs of the Province. Mr. Luckie concluded by saying he had no fears of the result of the present motion, but thqugh he had he should have none the less faith in it and its ultimate success, for if even defeated now, the public feeling that produced it would only gather more and more power in an early future, and finally assert the strength of the public principle which lies at the basis of Representative Government and good administration. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Baigent seconded the motion. Although, he said, it was a painful position in which this motion sought to place the gentlemen of the Government, yet, when the country saw and felt the mismanagement of the last few mqnths, it was necessary to do something to remedy the evil, His opinion was that the Government, and especially the Superintendent, did not possess the confidence of the Council or the Province. The Superintendent did not go about sufficiently, and did not know the country well enough, or what it wanted. He should not sit at home in an office, but should see and learn for himself, and thereby might pravent mistakes. No doubt the Provincial Secretary was a hard-worked officer; but that was not enough. Mr. Luckie had stated quite enough on the finance part of the subject, and although he had referred to Wangapeka, the treatment many of the settlors, as well the diggers too, had received from the hands of the Government in this matter, through the obstinacy and carelessness on the part of the Superintendent, was very great indeed. They seemed to carp little for the real interests of the Province, bi}t only for those of the land purchasers.. Nine months back he read a statement that a number of Nehon merchants and others wished to get up parties to go out prospecting for gold in different parts of tlie country, and that very Waugapoka district wqs one of these places spoken of. The Government undertook to pay a certain sum if a payable goldfield was discovered within a certain time, Well, not much came of that j but after Culliford made his discovery, and the land had been sold, his Honor and the rest of the Government tried all the ways and means they could to excuse themselves. About six or eight weeks before the sale of this reef, he (Mr. Baigent) had received specimens found in Blue Creek, given him by Mr. Chandler, who told him that the people were much aggrieved by the manner in which land was being leased in that quarter. He (Mr. Baigent) showed specimens to the Provincial Secretary, and he had wished to sea the Superintendent, but, as usual, he did not find him in his office. He told the Provincial Secretary that he should be very careful in the disposal of this land and remedy the evil complained of. He afterwards > met him and asked him if nnvthing hod been done
in. the. matter, and told him he believed tbitt about £IOOO per month in gold was brought in from that district, where there were costly flumes and races. Well, after the sale and ttie difficulty that arose, the people of the Waimea determined to help the miners, and a meeting was got up, which the Superintendent and Mr. Daniell, the Land Commissioner, attended ; and there Mr. Daniell took all the blame, and said that he alone was the responsible officer ot the General Government. (Hear, hear, from the Provincial Secretary.) A petition signed by 832 persons was sent to the General Government as we saw we had no chance of redress from the Provincial Government. It appeared afterwards that the General Government, by the diligence of the Superintendent when in Wellington, were led to believe that the purchase was right, and so the General Government was telegraphed to to withhold their deoision until the petition was considered by the Government, which resulted to the satisfaction of the public. Mr. Baigent then took up the subject of the clause in the land law, and argued how absurd it was to call quartz reefs rural land. The man came and reported that he had found a gold-bearing quartz reef, and the Government sold that reef as rural land. The object of that clause regarding rural land was to prevent monopoly, to prevent private speculators buying up land that might destroy an ordinary settlor's allotment. But the Government, instead of preventing such a monopoly, sold the gold-bearing land at £2 per acre to private speculators, who strove to keep out the settlers and the miners out of it unjustly. Well, Mr. Warden Broad was sent up, and it was discovered that he could do nothing ; except only to provoke the men. Aud everything was done to provoke tbem, for even the Judge referred 'to them as banditti, a charge whioh had no foundation whatever; for a better conducted set of men were never seen on any goldfield. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Baigent concluded by expressing a hope that the motion would be carried.
The Provincial Secretary congratulated the hon. mover of the resolution on his change of operations. He first made a false move in proposing a committee on the Wangapeka question; and then, on diseovering this, he got that withdrawn, and moved the direct question of " no confidence," because he felt he could not be able to censure the conduct of the Superintendent on the first motion. (Oh.) He made another false'move in objecting to place on the Wangapeka committee the name of the Speaker, and a member of the Government, which he said was done, as regarded the Speaker, out of motives of delicacy, as that gentleman was a member of the Waste Lands Board. [Hear, hear, from Mr. Luckie.] He should like to ask if it was delicacy that induced him to buttonhole the member for Charleston, who formerly had caused him to be removed outside the bar of the Council some two years ago. (Laughter, and oh, oh.l He also congratulated him on the wording of his motion, which was formed for the purpose of catching the votes of the wavering members—(hear, hear) ; —because some had strong objections to the Superintendent and others to the individual members of the G-overnment. (Cries of no.) But he hoped no member would vote for the resolution as it stood. The hon. mover had referred to the accusation of animosity. He would not go into that question, but it was well known that that gentleman and the Superintendent were not on the most friendly terras. Alluding to the £12,000 of alleged savings, he (the Provincial Secretary) said that these savings were shown—(No, no) ; —and it was not necessary again to do so. A-s for the fault found in the estimated revenue, and the expenditure, it should be remembered that the votes of the Council had for years been in excess of the estimated revenue. Regarding the falling off in the gold duty, while the miners' rights and other goldfields revenue had increased in the Grey Valley, it was well known that Nelson did not get its full share of the gold duty. (" Why not ?") Ho opposed the arguments of Mr. Luckie regarding the departmental expenditure, on which there had been savings ; and said that of course had the money been required it would have been spent. As for the waterworks collections being in a separate account in the name of the collector, that, now had no existence, and the account was rectified. He then referred to the allusion made to Mr. Kynnersley's appointment, and said tjiat the presumed contradiction between his Honor's speeches and the subject of such an appointment, were explained by the altered circumstances of the Province. It was also very necessary that a warden should be appointed for Wangapeka and the Upper Buller. It was further desirable to obtain the services of Mr. Kynnersley during the dispute at Wangapeka, and, it was thought that the revival of the office of Commissioner would meet the views both of the Counoil and the inhabitants of the South-west Goldfields. He differed from the mover when he said that Mr. Kynnersley's letter was a piece of presumption. There was no one better acquainted with the working of the goldfields than Mr. Kynnersley, and he was perfectly justified in stating distinctly the terms upon which he would accept the office. The hon. gentleman then went into the Wangapeka question. He maintained that the Superintendent and Executive were not in any way to blame. The district, no doubt, was known to be auriferous nine years ago. Mr. Saunders and Mr. Robinson knew it, but never proclaimed it a goldfield ; and land was sold from time to time. The sole mistake, if it was a mistake, he said it wa9 not, was that of the Commissioner of Crown Lands. He oertainly asked the advice of the Superintendent, but he was not bound by that advice, and he was himself the only responsible person. It was not a mistake, it was a question of law. No time was lost in taking steps for withdrawing the land, and thero was no reason to suppose there would bo any rush for land. Other reef's had been found at Collingwood and the Grey, and why should there bo so in this particular reef ? The mining interest were protected, and not disregarded as Mr. Luckie had said. When Culliford applied for a lease, he would have had to give way to speculators under the leasin" clause of the Waste Lands Act, which clause was a mere farce. Culliford was told the land was oucside the goldfield, as it was shown by the map, for the accuracy of which the Superintendent was not responsible. It was furnished from the Survey office, and he was not supposed to test the accuracy of every map, and he took it for granted that it was right. There was no question raised regarding boundaries until some days after, and that was admitted by the mover. ("No," from Mr. Luckie.) He would read a parngraph from his paper, the Colonist, of Nov. 23rd, in which it wa3 stated that " the sales were made by the representative of the Crown, the landsolddefinitelyandabsolutely," which,it wasaddcd, the General Government never attempted to deny ; and it was further said that the General Government had resiled from their claim to the gold, and, added the Colonist, " the purchasers and re-purohasers of the laud are declared to be entitled to mine for gold thereon. There is a distinct expression of opinion that minero' rights, do not entitle their holders to enter such, lands, and that such entry would be altogether illegal. Doubtless, many of the miners will be dissatisfied w„ith this decision, but there it is. The miners lately expressed their desire to appeal to the General Government for their decision, and it is now very distinctly given, and the Provincial Government is left to maintain the rights of the purchasers." That was Mr. Luckie's opinion at that date, but after that statement it was the time of the election for Superintendent. Mr. Luckie seemed to consider this subject first-rate capital to be worked upon, and to direot violent attaoks against the Government. (Mr. Wastney : " Question.") The argument that the Government had atteivpted to dispossess the holders was not correct. When the surveyors were sent up they wished some one to go up and talk to the miners. Mr. Broad was sent up as agent for the Government, and they were told all the Government wanted was to survey the block, as serious difficulties would have arisen had the goldfield been proclaimed before that was done. They were distinctly told the Government could not interfere, and that it would be left to a court of law to decide. It had been said that there was no armed resistance, but there was no doubt there was ; and at all eveuts arms were ra'sed in a threatening manner. [Mr. Luckie : " No."] They fired at the j Superintendent's effigy. (Great laughter.) He also quoted a paragraph from a letter in the Colonist in ■whJQb, it was stated, taftt there, maa few it f«uW
end in powder and shot. There Were One or two very bad characters there, and the mover would admit that lie hud spoken to the sergeant in I charge at Wangapeka when the Government had ' ordered the removal of the police, that he ought to , remain on the spot beeauso of that circumstance. He had a, good deal of experience among riiiners, and had twice been down on the West Coast, and he believed they were peaceable people as a body, Although a few roughs might create a disturbance. The hon. mover had spoken strongly about the injury to the interests of the Province ; but who was it that had been the real obstructive P The hon. mover was himself the head and front of these. He had done all in his power to upset the Culliford Company, and had acted in exactly a similar way with the Perseverance Conioany. Mr. LrrcKiß rose to a point of order, —(hear, hear) —and the Speaker ruled that the Provincial Secretary was not in order in speaking as he did. The Provincial Secretary : He merely wished to show how Mr. Luckie had acted in this matter, both with regard to the land and to these companies. [To the Speaker.] Should I be out of order if I were to refer to the great opposition which the mover has always shown to the railway scheme ? The Speaker : Not in order." Mr. Luckie : I have not the least objection, go on. (Laughter.) The Provincial Secretary then a9ked the members of Council to pause before they would allow mere party feeling to have a serious eifect upon the negociations now pending regarding that important scheme; and members ought seriously to think of that before they attempted to vote. A great deal too much of party feeling had been displayed, and it would be far better if they would work together for the good of the Province, instead of fighting over trumpery questions. Statements had been made as to the wish of the Government to starve out the diggers at Wangapeka. It was not true; no such statements had been made by the Government. He defended the cause of the Government with respect to Mr. Broad, and concluded by requesting the Council to vote against the motion. Mr. Gibbs, after replying to some points in the speech of the Provincial Secretary on the subject of the Wangapeka land sales, and pointing out the many mistakesarising therefrom, touched on the expenditure, and added a few explanations to those of the mover of the motion, and showed that instead of the departmental expenditure being within the vote, there was actually an increase in that for the West Coast, on the items of police, and land, and otherwise to the amount of £836 10s. 2d. His Honor's speech on such points had many mis-statements, and there were great grounds of complaint for neglect of the wants of the Province, both on the We9t Coast and other districts, aud the mere appointment of Mr. Kynnersley would not allay the dissatisfaction which had been created by that neglect. He could have no confidence in sueh a Superintendent, nor iu his advisers. The Treasurer's statement showed that £28,602 had been spent for departmental expenditure during the past year, while only £25,107 had been spent on public works, out of a revenue of £82,000! Was that a fair proportion for such works? He quoted the proof of the long standing knowledge of the auriferous nature of Wangapeka, showing that that had been stated as "proved" on the report of the Land Commissioner to the General Government. He also showed that the two cases of Wangapeka and the land purcha3e in Collingwood were altogether different, and not identical. The latter was an old section well-known, and purely agricultural with no pretence of its being gold-bearing, and he pointed out and censured the contradictions which were contained in the arguments on the Wangapeka question, and referred to one remark of the Provincial Secretary to the effect that neither Mr. Saunders nor Mr, Robinson, when Superintendent, had proclaimed the Wangapeka a goldfield. He (Mr. Gibbs) would simply say that at that time auriferous quartz reefs were not in the habit of being sold as rural land. On the subject of the railway question, Mr. Gibbs said : A few quotations to show that the hopes that had been all along held out by the Superintendent to the public, of capitalists in England undertaking this work, had really no foundation in fact, as the correspondence of those persons with Mr. Morrison showed. He would first refer to a letter from Sir Charles Fox and sons to Mr. Fitzgibbon; in the second paragraph they stated : " The grant of land spoken of, even toere it all suitable for agrUultural purposes (which it evidently is not) would not be any inducement to capitalist to come forward especially as it would exclude the coal-mines referred to ; ' but even were these ceded, the prospect of return is too remote to encourage parties here to invest money in the stock.'" Then, in a letter from Mr. Fitzgibbons to Mr. Morrison, it was said : "My experience is that no such scheme, where the capital invested is not guaranteed a reasonable amount, of interest, say five or six per cent., by the General Government, will be entertained here or embarked in." He also said :
" Moreover, persons here interested in the condition and prosperity of the Province of Nelson are not ignorant of the present Superintendent of the Province having, when addressing a public meeting in Nelson towards the close of the year, in reference to the probable revenue of the Province, stated regarding the land revenue that much was not to be looked for from that source, because ' all the available agricultural land in the Province had already be sold, and the money spent.'" This was written in March, 1869., Again, in a letter from Colonel Maude to Mr. Morrison, we read: — " Two of the leading solicitors of this metropolis, Messrs. Baxter, Hose, and Norton, and Messrs. Kimber and Ellis, of Lombard-street, after making enquiries with care and caution among those whose opinions they value, have reluctantly come to the conclusion that so large a sum as would be required, viz., £1,500,000, could not at present be obtained in London, unless a guarantee were given bg the Government, either of New Zealand or of Nelson, for the ■payment of interest at the rate of five or six per cent, upon the money, to date from the 'commencement of the enterprise? " Showing, that without guarantee of interest, there had never been any hopes of this railway being commenced. Again, m the Superintendent's letter to the hon. Mr. G-isborne, on the subject of Commissioners to England lending their aid, he said : " There can be little doubt but that the necessary capital would be forthcoming upon the Colonial guarantee, but that he vould not be prepared to recommend the Provincial Council to become responsible for so large an annual sum as JC75,000." He (Mr. Gibbs) would think not, indeed ! and he considered that, however the present negociations might terminate, the Superintendent had been hitherto, as these quotations from the correspondence showed, wilfully misleading the people, for there evidently never had heen any hopes of this railway being constructed, except by the Government guaranteeing the interest on the cost, and that, as one firm said, not from the completion but from the commencement of the work, —an interest of five or six percent, and, therefore, he felt sure that this Council would ugrce with him that the Government was not deserving of their confidence. The hon. member concluded by drawing the attention to the unconstitutional action of the Superintendent in disregarding the wishes of the Council in regard to Mr. Trent's salary. (Hear hear.) Mr. O'Coxok said : The motion of the hon. member for the City is one of grave importance. It is one which he least perhaps of any member would feol inclined to underrate, and he recognised in it a necessary consequence, which sooner or later must result from the weakness, the ignorance, and the mismanagement displayed by the present administration. It was not long since that with one voice the gold Gelds had joined in declaring their want of confidence ; he rejoiced at hut to find the sound re-echo-ing here, and he hailed it as a harbinger of unity between the goldfields and the home district of Nelson. The first step which it is necessary to take in order to secure that reunion is to condemn what is wrong and unjust, and that brings us to the consideration , pf the. ExeoiuiYe aj) at; present gQn.stku.ted, Hqw
could he describe.lt but as a family party, consisting of three members for the City, and two offloiiila under the coiitrcil bf his ITonor. His Honor says that the hon. member Mr. Collins, in a particular or peculiar way, Enjoys the confidence of the miners in the Golden Bay district. He congratulated the bun. member, but at the same time would tako the liberty of advancing that he knew us little of i he miners on. the South-west Goldfields as they knew about him, where not even his name was ever heard. As to Mr. Kynnersley's appointment, he had only to gay that if he were popular on the goldfields, it was as a warden, and as a warden only he was wanted. He really was an active warden, not dragging the miners after him as the present la?y law court and feather-bed wardens do, but stepping into the field and settling cases at their earliest stages, saving to the country the labor of miners, which, under the practice of hi's successors, has been too often lost. To the miners the losses are untold, the vexations uncounted. Thus it is by comparisons that they appreciate Mr. Kynnersley, but he is not wanted as pro-consul—as a deputy, or vice-deputy superintendent. We already pay one salary for the office ; the recipient should do his duty or resign. As taken. Mr. Kynnersley's appointment partakes of the nature of a i on'lomerate, the constituent parts being that of assistant supernumerary, school-master, and go-between ; not a very flattering appointment, and not calculated to give satisfaction to either parly concerned. But the main ground of complaint is not so much personal as practical. Was it not true that; we really had no Executive but the Superintendent ? With all respect to the hon. member, Mr. Greenfield, what was he but the Superintendent's clerk, what the Provincial Solicitor but the family attorney, what the Treasurer but a mere purse-bearer; as he had said before, they are bound together by closest family ties. The hon. member wished to be understood that. he was there to charge the Executive with neglect of duty. Ignorance, mismanagement, and neglect, lie would prove to exist by occurrences inhis own district, then ask hon. members to record their votes accordingly ; and under the anomalous heading appearing in the Estimates, as Justice, South-west Goldfields, he would prove favoritism and injustice. Eecalling the time when Mr. J. R. Dutton resigned the appointment of Warden and Eesident Magistrate at the Grey, the appointment that followed will be remembered. It was that of a young gentleman who, however influential and respectable, was nevertheless incompetent. Brought up as an engineer, in that profession, he no doubt had a respectable standing, but it was not unknown to the Government that he was entirely inexperienced, and ignorant of the duties of that office to which they promoted him. This young man, so thoroughly incompetent, was appointed to the Warden's chair, where his jurisdiction was practically unlimited. They made him Eesident, Magistrate, who knew nothing of law, of whom, indeed, it can be said that he knew not even how to administer an oath. The gentleman's good sense, it is to be hoped, has influenced him to return to the; theodolite. He resigned, and then, if possible, a worso appointment was made. About fifteon months before his resignation, another youth, from Van Diemen's Land, receives an appointment as Warden's Clerk at, Westport, a place where the duties are light; but amends were made to this favored individual by ;> good salary, and several other addenda. Unfortunately for this gentleman, his imported mannerism proved a great ground of complaint against him; his over-bearing manner and unpleasant behavior made visits to his office anything but pleasant. Publicly and privately his conduct was commented upon ; the press was loud in its condemnations. But he was a favorite : a useful public building was pulled down, removed to a fashionable quarter, and added to for him. This does not figure on the returns. He receives two months leave of absence, no doubt on full pay ; he revisits Van Diemen's Land, he is supposed to refresh his manners in that congenial atmosphere, and returns to be made Eesident Magistrate and Warden at the Grey, one of the most important, positions in the Province, over the head of one who a few months before initiated him in his new found office when made Warden's Clerk, to the detriment of several others whose long and zealous discharge of their duties qualified them for and entitled them to the appointment. Then followed another blunder in the appointment to the clerkship rendered vacant at. Westport, another instance of the gross favoritism j he was sorry to say these instances were too numerous. Without fear of contradiction he could declare that he knew not of one appointment to an office with a good salary, for the last three years, made upon the only true ground—that of merit; for merit should bo the sole criterion to test such appointments. Were not this favoritism and injustice a direct injury to the efficiency of the service ? Would it not disgust and render careless our best men ? —it had done so already; men in office under this Government are disgusted with a rule where worth, zeal, and integrityare not appreciated—where ignorance and incapacityfind ready promotion, where ths last addition to thestaff is, upon secret influence, promoted to position over the head of his senior. Human nature cannot stand such treatment; our best men must leave; noman knowing his own worth would stop to be thus insulted and unjustly treated. Another result was that lately his Honor had to apply to the General Government for temporary assistance of a warden, although we have four half-idle in the Province. It was unpleasant to have to deal with this part of the question, through its almost personal character, but it could not be avoided. He then passed to the heading of public works. This brought him face toface with his Honor's statement that Westport was made by public money. It was made in this manner. Two years ago £4OOO was expended in nib attempt to erect jetties, and protective works. Examination has shown that it was commenced at the wrong end, and consequently never finished—(hear, hear, and laughter) ;—that the structure was never faithfully orectod, never firmly fixed ; a fresh camp and the whole affair disappeared; and he believed hon. members found last session that more money was paid to the contractor than he was entitled to, even according to his apparent progress in this worthless and wanton mockery. After this, theinhabitants memorialised for river protection. The reply given was that it would take a larger sum tc do it than the Province could afford—£ls,ooo wng. named. Since then valuable property, both publicand private, has been sacrificed. To all demands the reply was still the same. In consequence of thewasting of the bank, the entrance to the river wasbecoming wider and shallower, thus impairing the usefulness of the main artery of the Province. Lately he had the honor to be the bearer of a memorial to the Superintendent, asking for the construction of a specific class of work, and showing that, such work would be efficient and cheap. His. Honor at first seemed to say want of money, and the* great cost of protective works at the Buller, put the matter out of the question. He personally offered to undertake the work for £ISOO, and finally obtained a promise that if the District Engineer reported favorably the work would be undertaken. Ho returned to Westpor! md soon after received a letter in which the affair wus treated in the old style, and the work was again put off in the same way. A public meeting was convened, and the inhabitant* had all but determined to do the work by subscription, when down came the Provincial Secretary, accompanied by the Provincial Engineer. A deputation waited upon him. At first the 15,000 pounder was tried, but finally the work was undertaker., for £I2OO, a small sum compared to that often named., but so sure is the Provincial Engineer of the efficiency of the work, that he rejects all suggestions to make it still more secure, relying upon the stone groin itsolf to do what is required. In Westport it is believed that had this groin been erected three years ago all the jetties would have stood ; the banks would not, have been wasted away } the entrance would still be as it was ; and tho river, still depositing its shingle upon the beaoh, would have maintained it intact. But as it is. now, all has gone ; the school-house has been washed away, and through puro ignoranco and neglect, this Province has lost, in cash, over £7OOO. That was the manner in which Westport was made by public money. (Hear, hear.) If ruining means making, then it was made, but not >, otherwise. The streets were principally made by public subscriptions. Beyond the ordinary Government offices, they had no buildings, Bxcept the villas of the officials, i wid bud the public, consulted ft ia d.Qubtfu\
■whether so much money would have been wanted on them. Bonds, they had uone, except tho sea beach ; of tracks, there are two, that to Addison's, on the opposite side of the river, that to the Caledonian, a miserable tract, lending to the only bridge on the roast, where u, capitation toll was still levied on the ( mining community. Thee*-, ars the benefits by j which bis *ffonor has made Westport with I public money. Westport thanks him, hut f desirts a change. Such favor* are truly crushing. ! These illustrations were enough to show what was lost through favoritism, ignortftice, and mismanagement. He could adduce many more, but had merely presented these as occurring under his cte observavation in Westport alone ; extending the observation Would be further illustrating the prevailing characteristics. How blind indeed must he be who could not •ee the danger that all this foreshadowed to the Province. Even now a petition was being forwarded to tho Governor to withdraw the delegated powers from the Superintendent. They asked that no putfcou shall lie appointed as wardens who are inconv petent. More than u prayer otan he Been there ; 'tis a loud complaint, .'tis H just one; these miners ask for nothing but what, is their right ; but their right and their wants are ignored, and they are insulted by the present administration. Ever since he had been in attendance upon this Council he had heard a great about the mineral wealth of the Province. It was a standing phrase, bnt he imagined it was used more for self-laudation than from a thorough understanding of what that mineral wealth entails upon us ; mineral wealth is everything here ; it is our great, he might say, our only resource. Has the action of the Government been such as to assist those wlioge sole occupation is mining ? In what way have they done this ? Have they spent the large sums at their disposal in opening new fields, in assisting prospectors in bringing our hidden treasure to light ? They prefer to spend the money in salaries and departmental expense. The greater bulk of what remains is wasted under the heading of contingencies and miscellaneous expenditure, items put upon the Estimates not intended to he understood. Their accounts remind one of the dealings of a distant steward rendering his account to an easy and careless master all in the lump. As well might a nigger be called upon to unlock the chest and let them help themselves, as for this Council to allow the kind of management at present in force to continue. Hon. members must feel that this Council is really a perfect farce, an expensive mockery. The principal subjects for discussion here seem to bo country roads, sericulture, assisted emigration, and the Scab Act. These are not and should not be objects of primary consideration. Some persons seem inclined to run down our institutions as those of a parish vestry. Bather an extensive parish this, with un estimated revenue of £00,000! We have nothing small butourmauagement. But whetherlarge or small, whether our administration is to take the shape of a town board or of the higher form, taking as a copy —the home model—lot us at least have something that will command the confidence of the country, an administration truthful, earnest, capable, and active. (Hear, hoar.) If we can obtain siich, Nelson will soon rise to her proper place foremost amongst the Provinces .of New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) Not as at present, proverbially sleepy and inactive. The hon. member expressed his conviction that he had said enough to show that lie had good grounds for his want of confidence, and he knew that in expressing himself as he did, he was acting strictly according to the wishes of his constituents. It was well known that his Honor treated them with the greatest neglect. He had never visited tho goldfields for the last two yeai'Sjand yot he was called a Superintendent of the Province. The meaning of the word must be changed to make it describe his Honor's position. Perhaps by-and-by the Province may come to a size that will suit a Superintendent of his calibre. Some time ago, ho, the hon. member, took a part in tie separation movement, but it should be understood separation was forced upon them. What was required was n juat administration. He would rather support the unity and integrity of the Province, if that coidd bo maintained upon a just basis ; it can never exist upon any other, it is but a question of time. At present, the weakness of division is to bo feared as much as the delusions of the railway scheme, which, -while holding out a promise never to be realised, was depriving the Province of a, real mine of inexhaustible wealth—the Mount. Bochfort coalmine, a mine which would be wrought even now were it not handed over to the contemplated promoters of the railway. He, as much as anyone, would like to seethe railway an accomplished* fuot. Hut could we suppose that English capitalists would expend large sums here.without enquiry? If they enquired what would be the result. That we ourselves had no confidence in it, for is there one member of this Council that would invest, his money in such a scheme or advise a friend to do so ? If not, why presume that the first financiers of the day are greater fools than we ; besides there is an" implied • lislionesly in the affair, which he wa3 afraid would pnd in loss and confusion. In conclusion, he expressed a hop* that as he had, with others, shown a clear ease of neglect, mismanagement, and incompetence against the present Government. ' hon. members would see that it was the bad administration which was the real cause of the retrogression of Die goldfields. He had heard it. said by miners, that it look a rich claim to meet all calls, that the Government gave them no assistance, but, on the contrary, helped to drive them away from places where they could, with justice shown them' remain. These are the emigrants we want, and we need not send for fhem ; they will come to us if we treat them as we ought—as Otago is now doing. He would support the motion made by the hon. member for the City, Mr. Luekie : tho past made it imperative to do so, and it was the duty of hon. members to assist in this, a pure and clear step for the happiness, t he prosper!! v, even the respectability of tho Province. Mr. F. Eblliko said hon. members seemed to be rather backward in desiring to express their opinions, but he should not not like to give a siient vote on this question, as it was one of very great importance, and more particularly as his reasons for voting for tiie motion were in some respects different from the opinions expressed by the hon. members who had spoken in favor of it. Most of these members had to find fault with the Government for not having acted rightly ia many respects, and he agreed with them in so far that the administration of affairs was by no means satisfactory. On the oilier hand, he could not help saying that, it was very easy to find fault with a Government, lie had never known a Government whose acts could not be pulled rb pieces by its opponents ; and he believed there never would be one where this could not be done. lie blamed tho present Government for the sale of the land in the Wangapeka district. There was no doubt it was a great mistake, n great blunder. The Provincial Secretary had said there were no grounds to fear that a rush to the Lund Office would take place. [Hear, hear, from the Provincial Secretary.] The Provincial Secretary said hear, hear, but ho (Air. Kelling) eould prove that in the mind of the, Superintendent this fbar did exist ; at least he must have apprehended that something of what took place the next morning might happen, because he proposed to the Commissioner of Crown Lands to hold a Waste Lands Board, meeting on the very same afternoon that Culliford had made his application, in order to withdraw all the rest fro_in sale. (Hear, hear.) But the Superintendent was of opinion that the proceedings of this meeftng, without, summoning the Speaker of this Council, would be illegal. In this lie contended the Superintendent was wrong. Clause 5 of the Waste Lands Act read thus : " There shall be established a Board, to be called the Waste Lands Board, to consist of the Superintendent, the Commissioner, and the Speaker of the Provincial Council, any two of whom shall be a quorum. Provided always that in the event of tho dissolution of tho Council, the Speaker then in office shall continue to be a member of the Board until a new Speaker bo elected ; nnd provided further that in the event of tho death, absence, or incapacity to act of the Speaker, thn Board shall be held duly constituted without his presence." Now, if the lfit proviso of t) is clause meant anything at oil, it meant that if tho Speaker could not be present nt the meeting of the Board, then the two other members shall constitute a legal Board. And this is a very wise proviso, for the Speaker may live miles away from tho place where the Board meets, I
and in such a oase could not possibly be always present, when an unexpected event made a meeting neeessary. (Hear, hear.) But after the mistake of the land sale was made, the Superintendent had another opportunity of getting out of I the difficulty into which hb lio-tf thereby int volved himself and the Province. A doubt had arisen | whether thb sold land was or «»>■ not in Uie Southf west Goldtield. Had the Superintendent, at once set I to work, as he should hare done, irad ascertained impartially what was the true position of Mount Owen, and that the plan in his office was wrong, much valuable time would have been saved, and the angry party feelings which have ever since existed would not have arisen. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Westport, Mr. O'Conor, had complained about the manner in which the Government spent the money. Whilst the hon member ridicules the idea of managing the affairs of the country by local boards, he grumbles at the same time against the departmental expenditure. He agreed with the hon. member that goldfields could not be managed by losal boards • but. that gontleraan seemed to forget that we had, besides a Provincial Government, a General Government, which might conduct that business. So long as we had the present system of Government it, would always be an expensive one. We must, have officials, and we must pay them ; for they will not work for the public for nothing. However, his principal reason for voting for the motion was the manner in which the Executive is constituted. (Hear, hear.) He did not think that wo should have an Executive which would in the strict meaning of the word be " responsible," viz : that its members should resign their seats if they met with an adverse vote on a single important question. The community is too small and the members of this Council too few to constitute such Government; but that the Council has a right to expect an Executive, the members of which he thought would act with something like independence, and could not conceive this possible under the present system. The Superintendent appoints the other members of the Executive. If they agree with him, well and good; but if not, he presumed he will tell them— Gentlemen, yon must resign. And with this resignation their salaries would cease. But he was quite ' in the dark as to what was the real position of tho members of the Executive towards the Superintendent. He should like to know whether they opposed the Superintendent if he purposed doing any illegal and unconstitutional acts. For instance, when the often alluded to £SO, paid to Mr. Dent, against the repeated votes of this Council, were discussed in Council, did the members of the Executive oppose the Superintendent, or were they perhaps never asked their opinion ? (Hear, hear.) He was sure he did not know how the business was conducted, and he believed no one else outside of the Executive Council did. (Hear, hear.) He did not know whether the Provincial Solicitor remembered it; but it was ten years ago or more that he (Mr. Kelling) asked the Government to repeal the Executive Ordinance. He was then of opinion, and thought so now, that at that time we did not require an Executive at all. The business of the Government was then very simple indeed, not so complicated as those of a large mercantile firm. It was different now, and, as he had said, no doubt officials were necessary; but where there was a legislative body, the members of the Government ought to be really responsible to that body. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Donne said he did not intend at first to take part in the debate on this motion, as to the propriety of which he was thoroughly decided, but, as there was a manifest hesitancy on the part of other hon. members, he could not allow the matter to come to a division without an expression of his opinion. Before addressing himself to tho main question, he desired to refer to some remarks made by the Provincial Secretary, or, rather, by the hon. member for Nelson city, for really that was the true mode of addressing" that member of the Government in the Council. No one, save Mr. P. Kelling, had faced the question at issue. What was the cause of the mal-administration in this Province, and what was the proposed remedy ? Were we moving too fast, or were wo going in a wrong diroction ? Was the Government represented in this Council as a Government ? Did those gentlemen who sat on his left sit there merely as representatives of the City, or as representatives of the Provincial Government ? It was, he maintained, a question whether, under the Executive Ordinance now in force, these gentlemen did represent the Government as integral parts of it. From courtesy he hod reeognisod the Provincial Secretary and the Provincial Solicitor, but ho had been told in the Council more than ouce, when he sought information upon any subject that may have peculiarly thrust hard against them, that they sat there as members for particular districts. It was just ns easy for the Superintendent to appoint, the messenger of the Council as a member of this Executive, and he had always thought this state of things to be anomalous. Ho could imagine a state of things happening wherein no member of the Executive would have a seat in this Council. Therefore, they must regard it. as a mere accident, that certain members of the Executive had seats there, and he denied that they sat. there as an Executive. The motion said " That the Government of this Province, as at, present constituted, does not possess the confidence of this Council." Did this refer to members of the Executive inside or outside this Council ? This very doubt showed that there was something radically wrong in the present state of things. Ifc knew there was an indisposition to look the question fully in the face, and by some it was more than hinted that the members for the West Coast wished not for the benefit of the whole Province, but for its division and destruction as a Province. This he denied, although it was true that they required good to be done to the West Const, in ways other than those proposed by the Executive. The Government really knew nothing or would know nothing of West Coast requirements, for even their Wardens' reports did not supply them with the necessary information. Their style of information was apt to mislead the Council, as it did indeed the Government, because they tool; these official reports in their integrity, and, by reading them, any one could for himself see how each had dressed up in the nicest possible style to suit its own district. He did not. say that these reports were wilfully so written that they might mislead the people, hut he wished to point out how naturally the official mind ran in one groove. Ho would ask the Council, " Are you prepared to receive and act upon the Warden's reports in preference to statements made by the members of Council representing these districts, and whose duty it is to go above, beyond, the narrow view of an official mind ?" This view of the question had been' pretty well brought before them by the West Coast Boanerges (Mr. O'Conor), although that honorable member did not inform them that a petition was now going round for signature, and for presentation to his Excellency the Governor, praying him to withdraw from the Superintendent the powers delegated to him, and also praying that Mining Boards might be established. The Wardens reported against the necessity of these Boards, and why ? Because, once establish them, and much of the Warden's prestige were gone. The Provincial Secretary, at tho outset of his speech, treated them to some platitudes about false moves, but the result could alone show if the present motion were a false move. Tho Provincial Seeretaiy charged the mover with having button-holed the member for Charleston (himself) ; but he was not to be button-holed by the mover of this resolution, or the Executive. His position should be, as it had hitherto been, that of an independent, member; and there was no one who could contradict that by any act of his. The Provincial Solicitor also referred to another question, to a circumstance which occurred in the Council, wherein he felt it to be his duty to interfere with the attitude then assumed by the mover of this resolution, but who had not then a seat in this Council. That hon. gentloman then sat there in another capacity, and he had occasion to refer to his objectionable conduct, upon which certain results followed, which results he surely need not enter upon in order to refute that charge of having been button-holed. Mr. Donne then referred to the reduction in tho gold revenue, while there had been an iucrease in the number of miners' rights nnd business licenses on the West Const. Of the Wangapeka dispute, he said he could assure tho Council that at one time it required but a spark in order to have
the whole of the goldfields in a blaze of opposition to 1 the Wangapeka land sales, and the results attempted to be drawn from them by the Government. The diggers kept themselves quite quiet, but they were steadily watohing, and. but for the happy settlement of the dispute, he knew not what result might have happened. He thought the Government, bad been censurable from the beginning, pveu to the end of their dispute, and he hoped the Conncii would hold the Government responsible for their aciioa ia regard to it. The mover of the resolution was, he thought, entitled to tho thanks of the whole Province for his action in the Wangapeka dispute. It was perfectly true, as one member of the Executive stated tho other evening, that his Honor the Superintendent was recently elected by a large majority; but those members who differed from him had also been elected by similarly lnrge majorities. The mover of this resolution, for instance, had been placed at the head of the poll. He thought he need not discuss tlie reason for this latter circumstance. He was much amused at the manner in which the Provincial Secretary deprecated the open rebellion of the miners at Wangapeka, and spoke of their daring to shoot at an plllgy of the Superintendent, and to see how easily he let down the miners as a body. The Provincial Secretary having visited the West Coast twice—twice, be it understood—says that he found the diggers to be an orderly set of fellows. Reference had been made to Mr. Kynnersley's appointment. Now he had no objection to that, gentleman's appointment, provided the old state of things be not revived on tho Coast. Ho objected to one man holding the entire control of so large and important a district, and being responsible to no one. The Government seemed to think that by making this appointment they woidd thereby secure the West Coast votes; but he objected to Mr. Kvnnerslpy having a seat in the Executive, being also Resident Magistrate, and possessing such large powers over the expenditure of money. He remembered being asked to move in the matter of seeking to get Mr. Kynuersley appointed as member of the Executive for tha West, Const, and he answered, No ; but if Mr. Kynnarsley would seek for a seat in the Provincial Council, and act, say, as Secretary for the Goldfields, with responsibility, he should not object. But now we found Mr. Kynnersley proposed to be put back in his old position—a position that must of necessity make the West Coast representatives mere nonentities. He would warn the Government and the Council, that if they revived the old state of affairs, they would uot have one single representative from the West Coast sitting in this Council. If the old system of patronage is to be placed in the hands of an irresponsible Commissioner, the Council may as well hand itself over entirely to the Executive. He would now refer to the money given to Mr. Dent, which money, it appeared, had been taken from a particular vote, never intended to be applied in such a manner, and taken, too, in open defiance of the Council. He did hope, therefore, that the Estimates now before tbo Council would be narrowly watched. He hoped the Council would insist on exercising its lawful check and control, and also that it would say, and that distinctly, whether or not it has confidence intheExecutive; then let the Executive go out of their seats or not, as the vote might go. This was the only effectual remedy for the mischief that had been so long perpetuated. He intended to record his vote against the Executive. (Hear, hear ; and applause outside the bar, which the Speaker at once suppressed.) Mr. Franklyn said he had paid particular attention to the remarks of Mr. Luckie, but ho failed to discover anything in what ho said, except that he wished members of Council to close their eyes and shut their ears to reason and argument, and to blindly follow one who had persistently attacked the Superintendent. (" Oh, oh," and laughter.) His opinion wus that they had been sent there to assist, not to annoy the elected head of the Government. If the people on the West Coast had a feeling against the Superintendent, they would have a double feeling of animosity to those of their representatives whose only object was to obtain the " loaves and fishes" for themselves. (" Oh, oh.") Let him tell the Council that so long as the name of Mr. Kynnersley figured on the muster-roll of the Executive thoy might depend upon the firm support of the miners of the West Coast. (Laughter.) A good deal had been said that evening on that, most unfortunate affair, the Wangapeka difficulty. Might he r.sk who was the origin of the difficulty ? Who was it who endeavored to heap complication upon complication in connection with this subject ? Who was it who placed the matter in such a light, with mendacious audacity, but the hon. mover Tlie Speaker : The language yon have used is highly disorderly. You must endeavor to restrain your language. Mr. Franklyn : I can only plead my inexperience, Sir, if] have said anything out of order. The Speaker: You cannot plead inexperience, Sir. You must, know that your language is highly disorderly, and I have twice told you so. Mr. O'Conor. moved that Mr. Franklyn's words should he taken down in writing. Mr. Franklyn said that if any apology were neccossary he would be most happy to make'reparation. He remembered having been in Nelson immediately after the Wangapeka difficulty arose, and he felt convinced then I hat. had it not been for the interference of the General Government, the whole matter would have been settled to the satisfaction of everyone, except the proposer of this motion. (Laughter.) Had there, during this debate, been heard a single argument founded ou reason or justice? Could not. all their opposition—all their speeches—everything that, had been said—be summed up in one word—wilfully blind opposition. He fell, convinced in his own mind that the cry was not "My country's good," hut "We wish to get that country for ourselves." Mr. Shkphabd complained of the utterly intolerable language used by Mr. Franklyn. It was disgraceful. The Speaker: The hon. member is highly disorderly. It is disgraceful—discreditable to himself and to tho Council. Mr. Gibbs asked what course the Council or the Speaker wus empowered to take under such circumstances. The Speaker : The hon. member's words are taken down. Any member who wilfully disturbs the order of the Council is liable to a penalty, and, in the event, of tlie penalty not, being paid, he is liable to imprisonment. Mr. Gibbs : I should not like to go to that extremity, and I trust the hon. member will not persist in incurring it. The Speaker trusted the Council would support him in maintaining order and their self-respect. Mr. Franklyn continued by saying that ho sincerely trusted that the Council would not adopt the motion. It was evident, to everyone that if they did adopt it the Superintendent, according to the powers he possessed, would take no notice of it. What, would be the result ? Would not the Opposition be simply closing the public purso? (Cries of " No.") Could the Province stand that infliction? Ho hoped members would do aa he iutended to do—vote against the motion, and put down this factious Opposition. Ho then referred to Mr. Lnckie's remarks on the Wardens' reports, and on Mr. Kynnersloy's. The Province had to thank Mr. Kynnersley that the West Coast belonged to it, and Mr. Lnckie's eioquenee was only inspired by animus against the Executive. He "defended Mr. Whitefoord against what ho said were unjust, untrue, and ungenerous statements by Mr. O'Conor. The Miners' League, which had been roferrod to by Mr. Donne, was simply a factious minority on tho Coast. He did not hesitate to tell that hon. member that he (Mr. Franklyn) was fulfilling the wishes of his constituents by voting against the motion. Mr. Macmaiion moved the " Previous Question." He thought the discussion had been sufficient to attain the object dosired, and would afford the Superintendent an opportunity of knowing the sontiments of the Council, and it would be better, therefore, to allow the motion to lapse. Mr. Rutherford seconded the motion. Through n misunderstanding which led many members to suppose that discussion was stopped by the moving of the " Previous Q.uestion," no further lebate took place, and on a division on tho question that the motion be now put, the result waa as follows:
Ayes, 9: Messrs. Luokie, F. Kelling, Donne, Shephard, Reid, Maokley, O'Oonor, Gibbs, and Baigent. Noes, 9 : The Provincial Solicitor, the Provincial Secretary, 0. Kelling, Franklyn, Rutherford, Tarrant, Macmahon, and Wastney. The Speaker gave, hi? casting vote with the "Noe*, tlie result of which wm» that the motion was not put, and u division on the No-ooulidenpa motion *■*?■ thus avoided. The Council then adjourned till next day. During the whole of the debate the Council Chamber was crowded by a largj audience, more numerous, we are told, than any which had over before assembled there during any debate of the Council. WEDNESDAY, May 11. The Speaker took the chair at five o'clock. All the members were present. Election of College Qovernors. Mr. Wastney moved, "That a deputation be appointed by this Council to confer with the College Qovernors, on the desirability of making some alteration in the planner by which the Governors of that institution are for the future to be elected. Such deputation to consist of Mr. Shephard, Mr. Luckie, and the mover." Mr. Rutiierford seconded the motion, which was adopted. DEFEAT OF THE GOYERNMENT ON THE UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE. On the adjourned debate on the motion of the Provincial Secretary, " That an address from this Council, signed by the Speaker, be transmitted to his Honor, the Superintendent, request ingliim to send to this Council a recommendation to grant a sum of money out of the Provincial Revenue to meet the unauthorised expenditure during the year ended 81st March, 1870, amonnting to the sum of £2435 12s. 5d." Mr. Gibbs moved as an amendment, " that the figures be struck out, and the figures £2373 2s. sd. be substituted." The reduction he proposed was the sum of £62 10s., which had been paid to Dent, the overseer of Roads, and which from the return placed on the table last night was shown to be part, of the unauthorised expenditure ou the Brunner Coalmine, which Dent was connected with last year, when the Council twice refused to grant the salary the Government had asked for last session. The Superintendent after the Council closed, had declared would he set at naught the decision of the Council on this subject, and would pay the man the money. It was a matter in which the dignity, the rights, and the usefulness of the Council was concerned, and seeing the total disregard of its repeated vote, it was necessary for the welfare of the Province that a full expression if its opinion should be given by the refusal to vote the sum thus expended (Cries of Hear, hear). Mr. Rutherford seconded the motion. He said from what he had learned of this matter, he felt the necessity of this amendment, and after what passed lust night, he trusted the members of tins Council would show this evening that they could bite as well as bark. (Hear, hear.) The Provincial Secretary said, hon. members did not appear to be particularly well acquainted with the facts. He did not go the length of saying that the Superintendent was right in making the threat, which he did make, but he did go the length of thinking that his payment of the salary to Mr. Dent was right, for the sake of the works of the Brunner Coalmine. Accidents had happened, and the knowledge of Mr. Dent, who was a very competent man, had been most useful in the mine. He had been formerly engaged as Overseer of Roads, but he was removed altogether from that, and put solely ou the mine. Although the Superintendent hud made a threat at a political meeting, yet there was no grounds to complain of the payment, because of its necessity. It was not an additional £SO, a3 part of the salary was for extra duties. Mr. Franklyn hoped the Council would pas 3 the vote as it stood. He referred to the " tirade of abuse" of the Superintendent which had been made by the hon. member for the City (Mr. Luckie), and others last night, and he called the attention of the Council to the fact that the money paid to Dent, who was a first-rate man, was paid out of the £SOOO voted in a lump sum for the Brunner Coalmine, and, therefore, if the Superintendent had chosen to give £IOOO a-ycar to a.u overseer of the mine, he could have done so, and the Council would not have had the power to say one word against it. (Repeated cries of " Nj, no.") Mr. Donne hoped the Council would pass the amendment by a large majority. (Hear, hear.) There was a great principle involved, which it was the duty of the Council to guard, and if it were not guarded, then every one of the members might as well leave the Council, and there would bo an end to representative Government. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Reid, after a brief reference to the acquaintance with the literature of Billingsgate displayed by Mr. Franklyn, said he knew nothing of Dent, but he knw about the principle involved in this subject, and he hoped he knew his duty to his constituents. The matter was not. new to him, for it was well known on the Coast. When the two late members for the Buller, Mr. R. C. Reid and Mr. M'Dowell, returned last year, they told their constituents this, which they ielt to he an extreme grievance, stating that not only had they to undertake the sometimes thankless duty falling to a member of Council, but they had also to undergo a deliberate i nsidt from the Superintendent fordoing that duly. (Cries of Hear, hear.) Whatever the Government might say now, it was impossible to dissociate (he threat of the Superintendent to disregard the votos of the Council, by making a larger payment to Dent, from the fact. that, that payment had been made. It was the threat persistently carried into cHert. (Hear, hear.) Mi-. Luckie also supported the amendment. He had never ceased to feel the gravity of this question, from the time that it arose until now, and he had repeatedly referred to it. There was no such instance of a breach of the Constitution that he hail ever heard of, of an attempt to take from a constitutional legislative body the power which it held on behalf of the people which it represented, the power of the purse strings. Mr. SIiEPIIART) said it was with some regret that he felt he could not support, the motion for passing this unauthorised expenditure. Had he been in the Council last year it was very likoly he would have voted the larger salary for Mr. Dent; but the Council had noted otherwise, and that vote twice given should have been binding on the Executive. (LTear, hear.) Mr. Dent might be the best Engineer in the southern seas, and worth £IOOO a-yeur. That was as nothing to the vital point of the principle of the Council's rights. Had no vote been passed, the Executive might have been warranted in paying this money out of the lump sum voted ; but. the vote being so distinct, and twice given, there was no excuse for the total disregard of the will of the Council. (Hear, hear.) The money was paid in the face of direct votes of the Council. (Hear, hear.) The .power of the Council over the public purse should never be allowed to slip through their fingers, and it mattered nothing although it was only Is. that had been paid, it was totally unconstitutional to pay it after such clear and repeated expression of the Council's will. (Hear hear.) Tho remarks mado oy Mr. Franklyn that the money was voted in a lump sum for the Brunner Coalmine, and that, therefore, it was in the power of the Executive to pay any sum they choose, were pregnant with meaning. (Hear, hear.) They showed at once the danger of giving such lump sums in one vote, and the necessity of the Council going into tho details of every vole, the Brunner Coalmine, the votes for Contingencies, Miscellaneous, and every vote. (Hear, hear.) The argument of the Provincial Secretary that this payment was made out of the £SOOO, was no doubt ingenious, but it was not very sound. Had the sum of £6O odd not been paid as it was, there would have been so much less of unauthorised expenditure for the Council to vote now. (Hear, hear.) Mr. F. Kelling also supported tho amendment, reminding the Council that after the voto wus refused first, a motion for a gratuity was made at tho instance of the Government, aad he objected to gratuities to Government, servants for simply doing their duty. (Hoar, hear.) Mr. C. Kelling supported tho motion. He did not deny that it was very wrong in the Superintendent to make the threat he did, but he called atten*
tion to the statement of tho Provinoial Secretary, that it was an additional office Dent was placed in [Mr. Luckie : He held both last year.] (Hear, hoar.) He was prepared to vote the whole sum. Mr. Collins said that a% it appeared to be only on the question 'of principle, that objection wai taken, mid us Iliac principle had been well vindicated, he thought, it, wa-. not worth while for such a small suui to waste the time; and retard the p iblio business of our constituents. (Oh, oh, and laughter.) The Provincial Secretary did really admit that the Superintendent was very wrong in making the statement he did, and that, he thought, should now be held as sufficient. Mr. Tarrant supported Mr. Gibbs's amendment, and expressed an opinion favorable to a full support of the Council's Constitutional rights. Mr. Wastney was quite sure every member of the Council felt very acutely the insult given them in the threat of the Superintendent. But his Honor had done a great deal more than threaten ; he had set the whole Council at defiance, and said lie would please himself. And not only so, but in some places in the country since then he had stated that he would do the same thing again in the same ciroumstauces. (Hoar, hear.) No member of Council could possibly forego the rights they hold on behalf of tho public. Each one had sustained an insult, both to his person and to the principle he represented. (Hear, hear.) On a division on the question that the figures in the motion stand part of the question, the following was the resnlt: Ayes: s.—Messrs. Franklyn, C. Selling, Collins, the Provincial Secretary, and the Provincial Solicitor. Noes: 13. —Messrs. Wastney, Baigent, Macmahon, Tarrant, Gibbs, O'Conor, Rutherford, Mackley, Reid, Shephord, Donne, F. Selling, and Luckie. Majority against the Government, 8. The figures were struck out, and those in the amondment inserted ; and the motion thus amended was passed. Boundaries of Road Board Districts. Mr. F. Kelling moved, " That a select committee be appointed to take into consideration, and report upon the boundaries of the Road Board Districts, with the view to recommend an alteration of the same ; such committee to consist of the Speaker, Mr. Macmahon, Mr. Shephard, Mr. Tarrant, Mr. Gibbs, and the mover, with power to call for persons and papers." The motion was agreed to. Miscellaneous and Contingent Expenditure. Mr. Gibbs moved, " That a select committee, consisting of Mr. Macmahon, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Shephard, Mr. Donne, Mr. F. Kelling, the Speaker, and the mover, be appointed, with power to call for persons and papers, to inquire into the expenditure of the items under the heads of ' Miscellaneous' and ' Contingencies,' general and departmental, during the past year." Mr. F. Kelling seconded the motion, which was agreed to. Petition of Alfred CuUiford. Mr. Donne moved, " That a select committee be appointed, with power to call for persons and papers, to consider the petition of Alfred Culliford. The said committee to consist of Mr. Collins. Mr. Shephard, Mr. Reid, Mr. F. Kelling, Mr.' Gibbs, Mr. Baigent, Mr. Wastney, and tho mover." The motion was seconded and agreed to. Representation of the Province in the Assemlly. Mr. Donne moved a motion for the transmission to the Houses of Assembly, of a resolution the same as was passed in hist Council, for additional representation of the South-west Goldfields, in Westland North, in the House of Representatives. Agreed to. Orawaiti Bridge. Mr. Reid moved, "That an address from the Council, signed by the Speaker, be transmitted to his Honor the Superintendent, authorising the immediate purchase of the Orawaiti bridge, with a view to the same being thrown open to the public free of toll." The motion was agreed to. Reservation of Mines and Minerals. Mr. SHKPnARD moved," That the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the effect of the Crown Lands Leasing Act, be instructed to enquire into and report on the expediency of in future reserving for the benefit of the Province, all mines and minerals in sales of the waste lands of the Crown." He said tho minerals of the Province formed its real wealth. To prevent the total alienation of that wealth from tho public of tho Province by the unconditional sale of waste lands would be to render a lasting service not perhaps to the present generations, but most, certainly to those to come after us. Such a course would not, of course, affect lands already sold ; neither would it in tho least degree interfere with the objects of the purchasers of land bought for agricultural or pastoral purposes, for which the great mass of land had been bought. There was in fact but very little of that kind of land left ; and most of what was not disposed of consisted of comparatively hilly country, and we were approaching the time when we must, look to the minerals of the hills for future wealth. The hills were tlie true treasury of the Province. (Hear, hear.) Persons already having freeholds would not in any way be affeoted, it would only be for the future, and when lands were put up to auction, the reservation of minerals did not affect, the question of their sale, as they would be sold for agricultural purposes, for tillage, and pasture. It would be necessary to provide that full compensation should bo given to persons on whose land it was necessary to enter. The principle of the motion was one of prudent provision for the welfare of the future. (Hear, lieur.) Mr. Maojiaiion seconded the motion which was passed. Cattle Trespass Art. Mr. C. KkTiLTXG moved " That a select committee be appointed, to consist of the Provincial Solicitor, Mr. Baigent, Mr. Macmahon, Mr. Gibbs, Mr. Collins, and the mover, to consider and report on the memorial of owners and leaseholders, nhout the working of the Cattle Trespass Act, 1865." The motion was adjourned, on the suggestion of tho Provincial Secretary who showed that, the Superintendent had power to omit certain districts from the operation of the act, and that it. would be better to do so than to alter the act. IMPORTANT CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION'. THE RESIGNATION OF MB. FRANKLYN. Mr. Donne moved, " That his Honor thi Superintendent be requested that all papers, telegrams, or other correspondence connected with the resignation tendered by Mr. William Norris Franklyn, of his seat, as member for the Grey District in this Council, be laid upon the table." It was openly alleged some time ago that Mr. Franklyn had sent his resignation to his Honor the Superintendent, and that allegation hud lately grown in importance and circumstantiality. It was necessary therefore to have a full disclosure of the whole facts, (Hear, hear.) Mi\ Mackley seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary said, in explanation, that while ho was down at Wcstport a deputation waited on him about certain matters connocted with that place, and he had stated to the deputation that Mr. Kynnersley had been appointed a member of the Executive. He (the Provincial Secretary) at the same time hinted that if Mr. Kynnersley could be induced to tako a scat in the Provincial Council, the interests of the goldfields would be far better attended to by him than by any other person. Acting on this suggestion Mr. Franklyn wroto to tho Superintend dent resigning his seat. At the samo time ho wrote to Mr. Kynnersley giving his reasons for his resignation. Mr. Kynnersley received this letter, and showed it to the Superintendent, who had already seen the resignation. It was found that Mr. Kynnersley, being a Resident, Magistrate and Warden, could not hold a seat in the Council; and therefore it wns considered that as Mr. Franklyn had sent his resignation under a wrong impression, no action was taken on it. Mr. Franklyn was therefore tolcgraphed to and tho circumstances were explained, and the samo day he telegraphed, asking to withdraw his resignation. The Superintendent allowed him to withdraw his resignation, and it was withdrawn accordingly. Tho resignation and the telegram were received on the same day, and the letter of resignation being withdrawn, the only document he could lay on tho table was the telegram now produced. [The following is a copy of the telegram laid on the table 5
" Wostport, March 18, 1870. " To his Honor the Superintendent, Nelson, — " If not too late, I beg to withdraw ray resignation, datad 12th instant. Fbanxlto."] Mr. Luckie said a good deal had been said aa to th* necessity of*, stricr, ob«M'vjnc« of law in all matters or" adminUfcratioji. Be va>. perfectly astonished by the i6relations, —the confession which had ju?*; been ru&rlb by the Government. The fact of the Chief of thei Province receiving a clear, distinct, and complete resignation of a member's seat in the Council, and after* wards allowing that resignation to be withdrawn, wai perfectly new in the annals of Constitutional Government. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Luckie) had heard something of this matter weeks ago, but it seemed so incredible that he had treated it lightly, and could not believe it possible, and he thought the tabling of the motion was a mistake because of the unlikelihood of the accusation it implied. He wa» only compelled to believe it now, after the statement of the Provincial Secretary. There is no doubt whatever that when once a resignation reaches the Superintendent, there is no alternative but that of issuing u writ for a new election. The fact was that according to the confession, there was present in the Council, sitting at these tables, a person who had no right to be there, aud it was a significant result of that fact that a vote of Want of Confidence in the Government of the Province had been literally shelved by the vote of that person. (Cries of Hear, hear.) Mr. Franklyn said : The narrative of the matter as given by the Provincial Secretary is substantially correct. I sent it on the condition that Mr. Kynnersley would take a seat in the Council. Although my resignation was perfectly well known to many members of the Council (no, no), it was never mooted until my action on the previous night. Mr. Reid replied to some expressions of Mr. Franklyn, but said that ho dared not trust himself in the then keen state of his feelings to give an opinion of the unwholesome aspect of the entire proceedings. Messrs. Wastney, F. Kelling, and Gibb3 referred to the proceedings as being mo9t extraordinary. Mr. Shephard : The letter of resignation ought to be laid on the table. The Provincial Secretary said he could not lay it on the table ; the letter was destroyed while he was down on the West Coast. Mr. Shephakd : Destroyed ? A public document; held in trust for the public ! It is monstrous! (Hear, hear.) Mr. Donne, in reply, said he felt surprised, humiliated, nay, disgraced by the disclosures which had been made by the Provincial Secretary. (Hear, hear.) It never really transpired till yesterday that there was anything substantial in the report. These disclosures might he taken as an explanation of what occurred in this Chamber the previous evening. The Government had been tampering with the representative institutions of the Province, and poisoning the. fountain of popular power at its source. According' to the Constitution Act, the law was plain, there was no qualification in the language of the act, and in mining parlance Mr. Franklyn had literally " j imped" a seat in this Council. Mr. Donne then read the following clause from the Constitution Act, which he said unquestionably settled the point.— 9. " It shall be lawful for any member of any Provincial Council, by writing under his hand, addressed to the Superintendent of the Province, to resign his seat in the said Council ; and upon the receipt by the Superintendent of such resignation the seat of such member shall become vacant." That was the law, but the end of this matter had not yet come, and further action would be taken. (Hear, hear.) The Council adjourned till Thursday. THURSDAY, Mat 12. The first proceeding after the Speaker took the chair, was the calling the attention of the Speaker bjf Mi\ Wastney to the fact, that there were strangers in the Council, and he specially alluded to William Norrir Franklyn, who ho said, after the statements made by the Provincial Secretary, and by Mr. Franklyn himself the previous night, had no right to a seat in tint Council. When strangers had withdrawn outside the bar, Mr. Franklyn retained his scat, whereupon Mr. Reid drew attention to the rule or usage under which when anything personal to a member was being discussed, such member should withdraw during such discussion. The Speaker said that was the rule, and Mr.. Franklyn was requested to withdraw, which he did, remarking that he should come back again. Mr. Luckie asked for a telegram sent by Mr; Kynnersley to Mr. Franklyn, to which that produced last night as the withdrawal of the resignation was a reply. This the Provincial Secretary obtained and produced. It will bo found in the report of the Committee below. Mr. Mac.va.hon requested the opinion of the Provincial Solicitor on this subject, and that gentleman expressed a desire to avoid giving an opinion, as a ease detailing the facts had been submitted to the AttorneyGeneral by the Government by telegraph, an answer to which was expected to-morrow. This telegram to the Attorney-General was produced and read, when Mr. Luckie pointed out that it did not give the facta of the case, that a most; important telegram, that of Mr. Kynnersley, a j member of the Executive, to Mr. Franklyn," had been omitted, so that instead of no action being taken on tho re ignation, as wa9 stated, action was really taken, and that action was not set forth in the case sent, to the Attorney-General, which was an exceedingly bald and meagre one. Messrs. Reid, Shephakd, and Donne took the same view ; and ultimately, on the motiou of Mr. Donne, the Speaker, the Provincial Solicitor, Messrs. Shephurd, Held, and Luckie, were appointed a committee to prepare a ea«e to be submitted to the Attorney-General on behalf of the Council; The Council then adjourned till nine o'clock On reassembling, Mr. Luckie brought up the following report, which he siid had been read to the Provincial Secretary, who had testified to it 9 perfect accuracy as to facts : " The Select Committee appointed to prepare 8 telegram to he sent to the Colonial Secretary, beg to recommend the following—- " A member of Provincial Council sent in his resignation by post lo the Superintendent, bearing date at Westport, 12th March ; Superintendent received it 18' h March. A member of the Executive received same flay, a letter from resigning member, stilting that resignation was made in order that Kxemilive member might take seat so resigned. A reply from the member of Executive was Bent bj telegraoh in these words : • Maroh 18. ' I shall not become candidate. Do you now with to withdraw application ? If so telegraph direct to Superintendent.' " The resigning member then sent the {following telegram to the Superintendent, who received it lame day : ' March 18. ' His Honor the Superintendent,—lf not too late, I beg to withdraw my resignation dated 12th instant.' " About I hive hours elapsed between the receipt of letter of resignation, and the last copied telegram. " The Superintendent permitted the withdrawal) and the member has taken his seat. " The opinion of the Attorney-General is requested; " 1. Did the seat of the resigning member becomi vacant when the Superintendent received letter of resignation ? (See Clause 9, Constitution Act.) " 2. Had Superintendent power to permit withdrawal of resignation ? "3. Does Clause 11 empower Superintendent to refer case to Provincial Council, the member having taken his seat ? " D. M. Luckie, Chairman. " Provincial Council Chamber, "Nelson, 12th May, 1870." This report was adopted, and the Speaker wai requested to trausmit it to the Colonial Secretary. The Council then adjourned till Friday evening.
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Westport Times, Volume IV, Issue 652, 30 April 1870, Page 1 (Supplement)
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17,648Nelson Provincial Council Westport Times, Volume IV, Issue 652, 30 April 1870, Page 1 (Supplement)
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