Evidence As To Qualification Of Driver Heard By Inquiry Into Seddon Railway Disaster

Wanganui Chronicle, 2 April 1948, Page 6

Evidence As To Qualification Of Driver Heard By Inquiry Into Seddon Railway Disaster

(Press Association) WELLINGTON, April 1 Lengthy evidence by officials of the Railways Department marked the continuation of the Board of Inquiry into the Seddon railway disaster this afternoon.

Included in the evidence was information as to the qualifications of the driver of the train and departmental procedure as to the promotion of cleaners, firemen and drivers. The accident happened on February 25, at approximately 11.32 a.m. Six persons were killed and 59 injured, though some of the latter received only slight cuts or shock. Mr. W. F. Stilwell. S.M.. is chairman of the board. Other members are Mr. John Wood and Mr. G. E. Breezy. Mr. W. H. Cunningham, Crown Solicitor, with him Mr. F. W. Aickin, chief legal adviser to the Railways Department, is representing the department. Mr. H. R. C. Wild represents the New Zealand Locomotive Enginedrivers,’ Firemen's, and Cleaners’ Association and the driver of the train, Mr. Joseph William Gurr, and the fireman. Mr. Edward Donald Blackbum. With Mr. Wild is Mr. T. H. Stephenson, the general secretary of the Association. Several other counsel represent injured passengers or relatives of deceased passengers. SAW NO OBSTRUCTION. Thomas David Garth, of Kaikoura, an inspector of the permanent way, said that he saw nothing in the nature of any obstruction that might have caused the derailment, and the track was in good order. Witness detailed the various inspections he had made during the past 15 months of the curve where the derailment occurred and said that the curve was in good order on his last visit before the smash On the day of the disaster he was at Seddon and went immediately to the scene in a railway bus. After doing what he could for the injured, he inspected the track for some distance back. Witness was then asked by Mr. Cunningham, for the Railway Department, whether he saw anything in the nature of an obstruction that might have caused the derailment or anything that could in any way have been a contributing cause. Witness said that he never received any complaint from a driver about the area where the smash occurred. SPEED ROUND THE CURVE. Garth said that since the disaster, .during the re-laying of the track, he had imposed a speed restriction of six miles an hour round the curve. The track had been restored almost in the normal manne : and to the normal cant. The speed round the curve was normally 30 miles an hour. To Mr. Wild (representing the New Zealand Locomotive Enginedrivers’, Firemen's, and Cleaners' Association and the driver and fireman of the train), witness said that any variations in the cant or slack on a curve sufficient to set up oscillations that would derail a locomotive would clearly be apparent to anyone riding over the track in a trolley. Oliver Joseph Doidge, district civil engineer, of Christchurch, said that he was at Seddon with the previous witness on the day of the crash and reached the scene at approximately 1 p.m. MASS OF PLANS. Witness proceeded to unfold plans and diagrams of such a size that the chairman eventually remarked: "The difficulty will soon be to see where the members of the board are.” (Laughter). The plans were moved to the floor, the clerk’s table and the bar table and handed up one at a time. Instructions were given for another long table to be brought to the room. Doidge said that the rails in the track were the original 551 b. ones laid at the time of the opening of the line in 1911. There was little side or top wear, Generally, the sleepers were in good order. The curve was in a cutting of papa clay with a good formation which gave no trouble. There were no soft spots and the drainage was good. Witness said that on reaching the scene of the smash he found that the first distinct mark obviously connected with the derailment was on a sleeper at 180 miles, 69 chains and 82 links. This mark was on the outside of the higher rail and 14 inches from the running edge of the rail. The mark was a fairly light one but similar marks which appeared on the next sleeper and the following ones became heavier until the point was reached where the sleepers were badly smashed. There were no corresponding marks on the ballast or on the sleepers on the low- leg side of the curve. "I could not determine the definite point of the derailment,” said witness, "and it therefore was necessary for me to decide upon a point which I could use as a basis for the measurements about to be taken. I decided to take the first mark on the sleeper as zero point.” Witness said that the fact that there were no marks on the lower rail indicated, in his opinion, that there had been an overturn and not a derailment. Witness said that the engines and trains were now heavier than in 1911 when the rails were laid but 701 b. rails would have made no difference. POSSIBILITY OF AN OBSTRUCTION. Mr. Wild: You cannot altogether rule out the possibility of some obstruction on the line. Witness: It may be a possibility but I aaw nothing. Witness said that he would not expect a very small metal object, such as -a fanbolt or a fishplate, to derail •• engine wholly. Any such obstruction would have had to be a considerable distance in among the wreckage to escape notice. Mr. Wild: A piece used by any malicious person could have been removed immediately after the accident.—No, it would have been right under the wreckage itself. Alexander Hudson Guthrie, of Timaru, who retired on March 8 after being senior driver at Kaikoura, said he had the responsibility of allotting firemen and rrivers. On February 6 Driver Gurr, who had been sent from the Linwood depot as a relief, arrived. Gun eaid he knew the route

south of Kaikoura and from Blenheim to Wharanui, and that he had been stationed at Ward for a considerable time and knew quite a lot about the locality. | DRIVER 3AID HE KNEW ROUTE. After Gurr had done various runs from Kaikoura witness asked him it he knew the route before going on to the shift which included No. 104 train. Gurr replied “yes” unhesitatingly, and said he was “right back on his old stamping ground” now that he had been over the ground once. Witness continued that he was quite satisfied, as Gurr led him to believe he could do the job without any effort. Gurr had all that went towards making him appear a good man. The engine of No. 104 was in perfect order. Gurr had his second grade driver’s ticket, witness added. It was not customary for a second grade driver to be on an express, but the staff shortage had to be taken into account. The department preferred to put first grade men on expresses, but No. 104 was not looked on as an express, but as a fast k passenger train. Gurr was 29* years of age. That was not young for an express driver. Gurr had never been to Blenheim as a passenger train driver. To Mr. A. R. Tarr, general secretary of the Railway Officers’ Institute, witness said it was not unusual for acting drivers to run No. 104. Use of second-grade certificate drivers was dictated by the staff position. NO SPEEDOMETERS. Examined by Mr. Wild for the Railways Department, witness said A.B. engines had no speedometers or speed indicators. Representations had been made by drivers from time to time for speedometers. The department had acknowledged that they would be desirable, if obtainable. Mr. Wild: If you were still a driver would you like a speed indicator? Witness: It would be a big assistance. And if of big assistance to you, it would be much more so to a younger and less experienced man?—That is so. Even more so to a man strange on the run?—Yes. Five curves and five different gradings over a distance of 2i miles would present difficulties to a strange driver?—l did not think he was a strange driver. He had worked on tfie route for 188 days when at Ward. Assuming he was then?—No. The line was well marked with curve warning and curve radius Have you ever overrun a station yourself?—Yes. It can be done if one is running the first time into a particular station. It might happen to any driver?— Yes. Witness continued that when Gurr was sent up from Linwood no written record of his experience was provided. He thought it was more recently than nine years since Gurr had been at Ward, and he thought Gurr had been there as a driver. CLEANER, ACTING FIREMAN. Gurr had not said what he was employed as there, and it was only now he knew Gur£ had been a cleaner, acting fireman. Mr. Wild: If you had known that when he came would it have made any difference ? —Probably. Witness continued that Gurr had informed him he knew the route and on the impression then given he would not have thought it necessary to give him a run over the route as a third man on the engine. Gurr had impressed him as keen and conscientious Mr. Wild: Did you know he had . never driven a fast express train before? —No. I knew he had had a lot of experience of goods trains. Did you know he had not previously been north of Blenheim except as a passenger?—No. DROVE OVER SPRINGFIELDARTHUR’S PASS. Cecil Charles J. Buckley, locomotive foreman, Christchurch, said that yvhen a temporary vacancy occurred at Kaikoura six men were approached to fill it, and five declined. Gurr was the best man available in the circumstances and he had experience in driving over the Springfield-Arthur’s Pass route, which was one of the toughest in New Zealand. Witness had no complaints of Gurr’s work. He knew of the instruction to drivers to inform their superiors when required to operate over a route strange to them. Under examination by Mr. Wild, witness said he had driven for 26 years. He judged the speed by movement going over the rail joints on a 701 b. track. It was more difficult to judge speed on a down grade. A speed indicator would help a new driver, but witness preferred the rails system. It was usual for a new man to be given a run over a route with a senior driver, and had witness been at Kaikoura he would have done so with Gurr, had it been possible. However, the circumstances at Kaikoura prevented this. To Mr. Tarr witness said he had never had any complaints about Gurr’s “enginemanship.” Mr. Tarr: Would you put an acting engine driver on the Christ-church-Invercargill express? Not unless I was absolutely jammed. Have you done it? —No. SENIOR MEN WOULD NOT GO. But you sent Gurr to the PictonChristchurch Express . Why the distinction?—Senior men would not go because of domestic problems. Gum held the same qualifications as some of the drivers at the Kaikoura subdepot. Gurr had signed a form that he knew the route up to Kaikoura but not north of there, continued witness. With Gurr’s previous experience witness considered him capable of driving any train on the Kaikoura run. It was true he believed that in an endeavour to comply with departmental policy acting drivers were taken off the Christchurch-Kaikoura expresses last year, but this was relaxed because of staff shortages. DRIVER'S HOURS ON DUTY. James Binslead, district mechanical engineer, Christchurch, said that up

to the time No. 104 left Seddon, Gurr had been 9 hours, 14 minutes on duty, of which time he had been driving 6 hours, 12 minutes. The average speed from Taumarina to Seddon was 25 miles an hour. Gurr actually possessed a record of considerable driving experience. Witness detailed the system of training examination and the promfition of cleaners, firemen, and engine drivers and said that if appointments as engine drivers were made too freely there would be insufficient driving work tor all difficulties and disputes would arise when it became necessary to roster engine drivers as firemen. A fireman and an acting engine driver such as Gurr did not require any further qualification in oder to be designated an engine driver. In fact, when Gurr was sent to Kaikoura he was better qualified in driving experience than were some. On their appointments as engine drivers in April, 1947, the term “acting” was not meant to imply ar. “inferior” driver in choosing between ■an acting engine driver and an appointed engine driver, as both must possess second-class certificates. The determining factor would be experience and capacity. Where knowledge of operating rules and mechanics were concerned, a man with a second-grade certificate—whether an acting engine driver or an engine driver —had the necessary knowledge to enable him to nin any train with safety. The general practice of utilising first grade engine drivers for express running could not always be followed, particularly with sub-depots of which Picton and Kaikoura were example:, witness said. Witness added that Gurr had performed 148 days of what was termed “advanced capacity” work as an engine driver before his transfer ta Kaikoura, and 163 days up to the day before the accident- He had driven seven goods trains north of Kaikoura after his transfer there, three of which haa passed during daylight hours over the curve where the accident occurred. ALL-ROUND GROUNDING The records showed that Gurr had had an all-round grounding in trait, operating, and had driven trains of heavy tonnage with the most powerful engine, a “KB,” over one of the most severe testing grounds, Springfield to Arthur’s Pass. Such trains were much heavier and more difficult to control than a passenger express train like No. 104. In his opinion, said witness, a satisfactory performance with such trains over that difficult section, with its steep grades, sharp curves and various speed restriction areas, indicated that Gurr did not lack capacity as an. engine

driver. The class of train he had handled 56 times on that section would make heavier demands on his ability and knowledge than would be the case in running trains like No. 104. While stationed at Ward, from April, 1938, to June, 1939, Gurr worked as a fireman for 188 days, during which time his running was over the section which included that where the accident occurred. In this period he would have obtained an Intimate knowledge of the track. "It may be said that Gurr seems young for an engine driver, but so far as using age as a criterion is concerned, if an engine man has not full possession of all normal faculties, with balanced judgment and sense of train running responsibility at 29, I do not think he will ever have them,” said Binstead.

There was a final responsibility on the driver to observe the rule that he must report the matter if he is required to drive over an unfamiliar route, and he could not be forced to run a train over a section he did not know- Gurr’s 1946 certificate indicated that he was aware of his duty in that respect-

Mr. Wicks: There is nothing in your evidence to show that the department ascertained that Gurr knew the route?—l should say that the responsibility was discharged. Mr. Guthrie, the senior locomotive driver, was satisfied. Mr. Tarr: In your oninion was Buckley justified in sending Gurr to Kaikoura,—He made the best decision he could under the circumstances, and, taking those into account, he was justified. Would he have been influenced by the staff positionT—Yes-

The hearing is to continue tomorrow.