USE OF LORRIES

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume 79, Issue 212, 10 September 1935, Page 5

USE OF LORRIES

WAITOTARA COUNTY ‘BREEZE’ NO PRIVILEGES ABUSED PRESENT CONDITIONS 'I’O CONTINUE After a discussion lasting just, on an hour and a-half, the Waitolara County Council came to a decision yesterday that no county employee was abusing privileges granted in respect to the use of lorries, and that privileges enjoyed by employees in the past would be con tinned, subject entirely to the consent and approval of the engineer. The meeting commenced half an hour earlier than usual to permit this matter to be ventilated. It had been raised at last month’s meeting by Ur. A. A. Winwood, and adjourned to allow the matter to be looked into. There was a full attendance of the council —Mr. AV. Morrison (in the chair) and Councillors A. R. Richardson, R. Laird, F. Handley, A. A. Winwood, L. T. Jones, R. Farley, T. Alexander, and J. Cameron. Following confirmation of the min utes, Cr. Winwood said that he was not against anybody. The minutes were wrong. Cr. Jones: That is not the point. The minutes have been confirmed. Cr. Winwood replied that he had made no charges. He was asking a question, that was all. Mr. Morrison: Why didn’t you say so before 1 put the confirmation of the minutes? Cr. Farley: I didn't hear the minutes being put. Cr. Morrison: The minutes are con firmed. Cr. Cameron: The county engineer has granted privileges to employees. The council permitted him to do it, and what he granted was a privilege. If the engineer is not fit to grant those privileges then he is not fit to be en gineer. That is what the position

amounts to. Granted by the Council. Cr. Farley: I object to the way Cr. Cameron has put the, matter. It wasn’t the engineer who granted the privi leges, it was the council. It is unfair to Mr. Dix to say he did it. It was this council. Cr. Cameron: At Mr. Dix’s discretion. Cr. Jones: F think we ace going the wrong way about it. The Chairman: 1 think the correct way is to deal with these charges sop arately. Cr. Winwood will have to bring evidence to substantiate them? Cr. Winwood: 1 do not. 1 have not made any charges. The Chairman: Mr. Dix is here to speak for the men. If Cr. AVinwood will bring evidence to support the charges, or will say what he has to say, Mr. Dix will reply. Mr. Dix: I have two of the men here. They ought to be in the room to hear what is said against them? Cr. Winwood object to the two employees being called in until the matter had been discussed. They could stop’ outside, he said, until the council was ready. He was not against them, but was out. for fair play. They would find that, out in the end. Mr. Morrison: I take it that. Mr. Dix has a perfect right to call upon any of the council employees for evidence to refute anything that may be said against them. Mr. Dix: In a court of justice a man is present when there is a charge made against him. Mr. AVinwood: But 1 have made no charges. Cr. .Jones: The charge is that. has exceeded his duty. Cr. Richardson agreed with Cr. Jones. Certain charges had been made and it was a fair thing to bring the, men in and let them hear them. Cr. Jones: I move that be al lowed in here. Cr. Farley: 1 take it th it this is purely a county matter? The Chairman: Of course it is. Cr. Farley: 1 am afraid that if you are going to let this sort of .squabbling go on T will have to resign, but I will be eligible for re-election just to show you that T have the ratepayers behind me. Cr. Farley added that the conned had gone along peacefully for 19 yeais. At last meeting it had sat in judgment on a family dispute, and that was :ili bound up with the problem I efore the meeting, in that it made the coun.al look ridiculous. “This is a disgrace,” he said.

The Chairman: I agree with that. Cr. Farley: Wait till I’ve finished and you may nut, agree with it. Cr. Winwood (to the chairman): I am satisfied you arc not here to see fair play. Cr. Jones: I ’vc been here too long to agree with that. Cr. Farley wanted to know whether he had leave to continue, speaking. He had started to say something. The chairman ruled that, there was no motion before the meeting and Cr. Farley could sit flown. Cr. Earley: Very well. (And he sat (Jr. Junes: I think it is disgraceful of councillors to act this way and accuse the chairman of being unfair. Cr. Win wood: I want, to say this: I have always been a straight. m;m t an honest man. When I was working on the AVaitotara County I have saved it hundreds of pounds through being lion Cr. Jones appealed to the chair for a ruling as to whether the discussion should go on. Cr. Winwood: You shut up! We hear too much of your voice as it is. A New Man. Cr. Morrison (to Cr. Winwood i: You are a new man here. Cr. Winwood: /And a pood man, too. although I say it myself! Cr. Farley (to the chairman): If you had allowed me to say what I was go ing to say this trouble would not havr arisen. We have sat hero for 19 years and have not had anything of this sort Cr. Win wood never made any charges against, any employees. He was ask ing a question, that was all. “ Did Mr. Dix know that this was going on?’’ That, was what ho wanted to ask. I think it can all be settled without these little squabbles. I don’t remember any charge being made. The chairman read a charge from a typewritten slip alleging that lime had been carted by n council employee for another person. Cr. Win wood: That is wrong. I never said that. Somebody told me (Jr. Handley: The only fly in the ointment is asking the men in. The chairman re read the charge.

“Is that right?” he asked Cr. WinUr. Winwood: I was told by several ratepayers, and I asked you if von knew what was going on, and you said ‘No, but I know what you are referring to—the day when a num was caught, drunk at the Aramoho Hotel Cr. Morrison: I didn’t say he was drunk. Cr. Winwood: “Drinking,’’ then. You said he was drinking. Cr. Morrison: Yes, I was told the lorry had been outside and he was in the hotel drinking. Are you standing by this charge? Cr. AVinwood said that he wanted to be fair to all. “Are you going to hear me?” he asked. The Chairman: T haven’t refused to hear you. AA’e have been listening to you all morning. Cr. AVinwood: If Cr. Cameron, or Cr. Alexander, councillors you know very well, came along and said that somebody told them something was being done, you would listen to them, wouldn’t you? The Chairman: Yes, and we have not objected to listening to you. I asked yon whether you made this charge? Cr. Win wood: No. Councillor Asks For Writing. Cr. Handley: Then I move that Cr. Winwood put in writing the charges he wants to make, and we will get on with the other business while he doing it. Cr. Richardson: Cr. Win wood has heard that, this man carted lime, and now he finds that those who told him won’t back him up because they might get into trouble for saying it. Cr. Win wood: You should give fair play. The Chairman: You should not accuse Chis council of not giving you fair play. There has always been fair play at this table, and councillors will always get it. Voices: Hear, hear. Cr. Win wood then asked what, a council lorry was doing carting soil in the morning on August .17. The chairman, after ruling that that was a separate matter, directed attention to the second charge on the typewritten list, which related to carting of goods from the railway station with a countv lorry.

Cr. Winwood had been told that that was so. He did not know. He said also that he had been told that lime had been carted. Those who had told him said that they had not climbed in the lorry and opened the bags, but the bags were all the same. Cr. -lories: In a court of justice, not one iota of notice would be taken of hearsay evidence. Many Congratulations. <‘r. Winwood: Let me tell you that after the last meeting my ’phone went nearly all day, congratulating me on the stand 1 had taken. And just t(> show you I’ve got the support of the ratepayers, 1 have 17 letters here. Mr. Morrison: Have you made a de nial of the charge about the lime? Cr. Win wood: I have made a state merit, that is all. I did not make charges. I asked if what I had been told was true. The Chairman: You haven’t any thing but hearsay evidence. Supposing that someone told yon that the lorries were carting stuff up to AVaverley, would yon believe it? (,'r. Winwood: I would expect the council to go info it and find out. Mr. Dix said that without looking up the records he could not toll what the lorry carting soil on the 17th was working for. The chairman said that that was a separate matter and could be looked into afterwards. Cr. Winwood: 1 see. Aon want to get this cleared up and out of the way first, so that you can say: “All right, boys. Off you go. You can do as you like.” Let. me tell you that I am here now. and I’ll be here for three years, unless I die between times, and I 'll fight you all the time. I’ll keep on fighting you. The Chairman: There is no need for fight! Cr. Richardson: Why can’t we have the position straight from the men con cei'ned? They will know, surely, if what is said is true or not. Lot us have them in. Cr. AVinwood: T have made no charges against anyone. Cr. Jones: Then who has? It was disclosed at this stage that

the charges, typewritten ami before < the meeting, were framed after the ; county (deck and Mr. Winwood had < conferred after the last meeting. C'r. Richardson: They are things Mr. | Winwood has heard and we should i clear them up now we’ve got the chance. Men Called in. The men were called iu singly and denied using the lorries except with the permission of the foreman. The foreman said he always had permission ' of Air. Dix. Mr. Dix stated that the | council gave him discretion in the mat- i ( some Lime ago. The men were allowed to cart their own firewood and ! so on. One man said he carted lime for his own use, not for his father. Air. Dix (to one of the men): Do you keep the grader at your house?—Yes. And the reason for carting of the' metal (referred to in the charge) was j because of the grader getting through ( your gate?—Yes, the grader was stuck ( thero once. (Jr. Jones: Is the grader at your place now?--Yes. The discussion then veered to the possibility that a county lorry had been decked out with seats and used ( to convey people to a dance at Alax- 1 well. Cr. Winwood stated that he had 5 been driving with his son. They had ' seen the county lorry drawn up, facing towards Alaxwell. “I said I wondered ’ why a county lorry with seats on it 1 should be there,” Cr. Winwood went ' on, “and my son said: ‘There is a dance at Nukumaru. ’ That is all there is about it. '

Cr. Alexander said that he had made a few enquiries and had found that there had only been one county employee at the Nukumaru dance. It was the engineer. Cr. Jones: I didn’t know that we had a gay. dancing engineer. Air. Dix: I went there with the ranger. We, were looking for straying stock, but we never found the stock, so we went to the dance. (Laughter). Cr. Winwood: This is the spirit I would like to see the whole thing taken in. The chairman then read the third charge, which related to a count employee carting firewood at Birch Park. Cr. Winwood: It was one of the ratepayers who went there to play golf, who told me. Mr. AForrison: But if he went to play golf he couldn’t see Birch Park. Cr. Winwood: He was playing golf, or something or other. AFr. AForrison: It wasn’t Birch Park nt all. It was on native land. The .man had got permission to take a dead ■ tree. It was disclosed that the soil carted Jon August 17 was for Air. Dix. He had had that privilege for years.

In answer to Air. Winwood, the foreman stated that he was not aware of any employee selling wood. He had asked them and they had replied in the negative. A Motion Moved. Cr. Jones then moved:— “That this council is agreed that no breaches of privileges enjoyed by its employees in the* use of county tracks has been proved, and that the privilege enjoyed by the council employees iy the past shall be continued in the future, subject en tirely to the consent and approval of the, county engineer. ’’ “During the past few months we have had a few mares’ nests brought to the notice of the council,” said the mover. “We had the old-age pensioner. who was penniless, who had a bit of metal carted for him by Air. Dix because he couldn't afford to pay for it.” Cr. Winwood: That is wrong. Cr. Jones, proceeding, detailed two other matters which had been brought to the notice of the council, and after investigtion it was found that there was nothing in them. “And 1 believe there is to be a third mare’s nest to come.” he added, “in connection with the question of rate rebates.” Cr. Farley: Is Cr. -Jones in order? The Chairman: Yes. He is moving a motion. “Cr. Winwood, when the finance committee met, said that, he had never yet met a man who had proved his opinion wrong,” Cr. .Jones proceeded. “ Cr. Winwood has got to learn that there are men at this table with opinions equally as good and as strong as his. This is a policy matter, and the council has a perfect right to decide it. I am referring to carting by the

county employees. In the old days we subsidised the men who had horses and Cr. Winwoo<l: Never in my time. Cr. Jones: We are still doing it. He added that private firms loaned their lorries to their employees. Cr. Winwood: That is a different matter altogether. Cr. Jones: There isn’t, any difference. We are in the position of an employer. We can surely let our employees have the lorries within the discretion of the engineer. I hope the day is never coming when our executive officers have no freedom. AVe don’t want a robot for an engineer. Cr. Winwood: You didn’t allow me much freedom when I was working for the council! Cr. Jones: Yon weren’t an executive officer. Cr. Alexander, seconding the motion, said that the AVaitotara County had been made to look ridiculous in the eyes of other counties. It was time this sort of thing was stopped? Voices: Hear, hear. Good Set of Men Employed. Cr. Winwood had fought his election on these matters and now found it hard to substantiate them. “We have a particularly good set of men at our beck and call, night or day,” said Air. Alexander. The lorry drivers have charge of the lorries and look after them. They are entitled to little per quisites. All the other councils do it.” Cr. Winwood: None of them do it. Cr. Alexander: A good many of them do it. I think \7aitotara has been made to look ridiculous in the eyes of New Zealand. The chairman said that the AVanga nui County permitted the privilege referred to. The men were at the beck and call of the council, night and day. Cr. Winwood: Then pay them. The Chairman: I think it would be very wrong to dispense with these privileges. I hope this is going to finish the matter. We are making our selves look ridiculous. Cr. Winwood: I hope that I always look ridiculous if this is what looking ridiculous is. The Chairman: Tf the rap fits you will have to wear it, but I don’t want anyone else blamed for bringing such trivial matters before the council.

Cr. Laird did not agree that all councils gave the privileges to employees that AVaitotara did. He knew of one that did not. The Power Board, too, had stopped that sort of thing. Cr. Farley: I agree with Cr Alexander to a great extent. At the last meeting we discussed a domestic trouble and now we have this, and there has been a big blowfly made. I think Cr. Winwood’s idea was to mention the thing at the table here, and not talk about it outside. That was his idea. I may have spoken a little hastily at the start, but I do think this council has become a password in the street after what happened at the last meeting. It is now a question whether we continue with these privileges. The council gave the privileges. It was not Mr. Dix. If I reinmember rightly, I was the one who moved that they be given. I may have been wrong. The ratepayers say now that we were wrong in using their money in this way. Cr. AForrison: Some of them! “No Feeling in the Matter.” Cr. Farley: There is no feeling in the matter. I have an opinion of my own, and I know how I am going to vote, and I take it that every councillor at the table knows what he is going to do. Cr. Winwood said that it was quite all right for a private person to do what he liked with his own money. Cr. Jones: This is our money. We are trustees for the ratepayers. The Chairman: And whatever we say stands! Cr. Jones was then rising to reply to the motion. Cr. Laird: I hope Cr. Jones will modify his speech a bit. We are always listening to him. The chairman replied that Cr. Jones had a perfect right to reply. When he had finished the matter would end. Replying to the motion, Cr. Jones said that it had to be remembered that it was not only lorry drivers who got privileges. The relief workers in the Tokomaru Riding were taken periodicals by AFr. Dix. They were provided with transport to their work. But for that they would not be able to go. Mr. Dix also took goods out for settlers in the back country. The conn-

Hl should remember also that a great deal of the work of carting for their own purposes had arisen from the request for county employes to give their snare time tn carting firewood for the unemployed in Wanganui. The council had given the lorjies and the men had criven their time, and tb«t went or for two seasons or more. The matter before council prob"blv arose from that. The snooker thought it was quite a reasonable Privilege, | Cr. Winwood: Tt. is not. Tt is costinn tb n conntv hundreds of pounds. Cr. Farl«v: Couldn’t the men be limited —allowed to cart on*e a year, «jay? Cavin" for benzine is a mere bagatelle so far as the cost of the lorries are concerned. Insurance on the Lorries. Cr. Winwood raised the question of insurance while the lorries were so used. The Chairman: You can take- it from me that the council is well covered. (The man himself is responsible if he is using the lorry for himself. Cr. Jones’ motion was then put and carried, those supporting it being Crs. Morrison, Richardson, Handley, Alexander, Jones and Cameron. Crs. WiaIwood, Laird and Farley opposed it. Cr. Win wood: I think it is a shameful state of affairs. Mr. Morrison: You sit down, Cr. Winwood. I won’t listen to you. Cr. Win wood (sitting down): Then I’ll say what 1 want to sitting down. I’ll resign my seat on the council if you’ll do the same, and stand for Brunswick-Westmere, and I’ll bet you I beat you by two to one. I’ll pay for the election if I lose. The Chairman: You have a very wise head if you know what the electors will do. Cr. Handlev: I take it that we can go on with the meeting now, and take business arising from the minutes?

Cr. AVinwood: It is a shameful disgraceful state of affairs.