NATIVE PURCHASES

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume 77, Issue 158, 6 July 1934, Page 6

NATIVE PURCHASES

NOT MADE THROUGH BOARD MINISTER’S EVIDENCE MR. QUILLIAM’S QUESTIONS EXTRACTS FROM LETTERS. L Per Press Association. J WELLINGTON, July 5. Sir A. Ngata continued as a witness before the Native Affairs Commission to-day. A stir was caused when part of an ostensibly private letter by the Minuter was read out giving rise to a suggestion that Sir Apirana Ngata had “realised the audit’s curiosity wayback in 1931.’’ The method by which the letter had come before the Commission led counsel appearing for the native race to remark that “Russia has nothing on this inquiry.’ ’ Sir Apirana’s evidence is now completed and it is expected that such evidence as rtmains to come before the Commission will be heard to-morrow. Ho was questioned about purchases made by the Native Department, not through the Stores Control Board. He said that they bought their grass seed, or most of it, outside the board, also wire. Mr. Quilliam: And this was breaking the rules of the board. Sir A. Ngata: The letter. Mr. Quilliam: In 1932, of purchases amounting to £129,637, £58,459 was expended not through the board. Sir A. Ngata: I am hearing the figures for the first time. Mr. Quilliam: It appears that it was your deliberate policy in certain ius.tuuces to buy outside the board. Sir A. Ngata: If we could get as good stuff more cheaply. Mr. Quilliam: I take it that you considered the dangers of that policy. Sir A. Ngata: No, I did not. I was made aware of the dangers. I was on the mat before the Stores Control Board with regard to the grass seed purchases, and the dangers were pointed out and the spirit of the regulations in regard to the board as applicable to the service. AVe were satisfied that we were buying more cheaply than we could buy through the board. Mr. Quilliam remarked that the department was exempted as far as live stock purchases were concerned. Sir A. Ngata said that the trouble about the Native Department was that they did not know how to satisfy the Audit and other departments. They went like a bull at a gate and fell foul of the regulations though they had the best intentions in the world. In the course of his replies with regard to grass seed, Cr. A. Ngata said that his argument was that if one was assisting Maoris and the Maoris not in the gazetted schemes had cash or a reasonable prospect of paying for the seed they should benefit by the organisation of the Native Affairs Department, which had a general obligation Ho had never tried to find out if that was a legal position, he said to another question by Mr. Quilliam, and agreed that with some of the issues made, there should have been proper security. Referring to certain transactions with, which the Waiapu Farmers’ Company were connected, His Honour remarked that the Commission would like to have certain information, and Sir Apirana Ngata said he would like, in fairness to the company, to get some explanation from it. His Honour said the matter concerned certain fencing wire for which the company sent a cheque when the audit came into the matter.

Travelling Expenses. Mr. Quilliam stated that £785 was shown as expenditure in conection with travelling in regard to development schemes. Most of that expenditure was incurred by natives and Europeans on the East Coast. The Minister said there were 36 in the party, which was the largest that had been taken round. The visit took nearly a fortnight. The East Coast really meant the electorate represented by the Native Minister in Parliament. Mr. Quilliam: No, I was not thinking of that. The Minister: But the audit was. Reference was made by Mr. Quilliam to thistle-cutting by boys, and Sir Apirana Ngata said a party of 14 To Ante boys carried out the work of preparing the marae and approaches to a tribal meeting house for the Gover-nor-General’s visit. Mr. Quilliam: They were schoolboys on holiday? The Minister: T suppose some of them would he needy hoys. Mr. Quilliam: What I want. Sir A pi ran a . Mr. Findlay: I think the witness is i getting prettv tired out. Mr. Quilliam: Wo all are. (To witness): How do you justify the employment of schoolboys on holidav being paid with unemployment funds? The Minister said that when he left Wellington Messrs. Ansell and Smith gave a lead to something being done in the case of the boys. Mr. Quilliam: They were going to make a report? They were engaged the. whole of the summer on it. Do you attempt to justify the expenditure out of these moneys? The Minister: Not looking back on it now. Mr. Quilliam said the Maori Purposes Fund paid £lO7O for expenses incurred by a Maori football match in Wellington. The audit said that more than half of the natives who attended came from the East Coast. The Minister: They are quite wrong there. I think it was quite justified. The trouble with it is it was associated with football. Mr. Quilliam: What was the object of the visit to Rarotonga paid by the Maori Purposes Fund? AVas it to promote friendship between two peoples? The Minister: Yes. Sir Apirana added that he was going on a trip, but was prevented, but two of his children went. Mr. Quilliam said that at a meeting when the football and Rarotonga expenses were dealt with, those present included the Minister. Mr. Makitanara. and Dr. Buck. Dr. Buck was merely in New Zealand on holiday. “Was any notice convening that meeting sent out?’’ Mr. Quilliam asked. The Minister: No. Mr. Quilliam: It was decided at that meeting that the travelling expenses of Dr. and Mrs. Buck should be met by the fund. The Minister: Quite legitimate from the Maori point of view. Dr. Buck should be entitled to any amount of consideration from a fund like that. His Honour: The pakeha paint of view is that he was making a quorum on that occasion. How does the Maori view

Sir Apirana: They wouldn’t contest it. Mr. Johnston said the capital of the fund when it was established in 1924 was £90,000, and it was now down to £59,000. “Do you realise,’’ he asked, the Minister, “that if you go on like this your fund will have gone in another, say, fifteen years?” The Minister replied that it was contemplated when the fund was established that it would be reinforced from the same source by contributions from Maori Land Boards, and power was given under the Native Land Act, 1924, to the Native Minister to requisition up to £7500 a year. His Honour: The Maori Boards seem to be somewhat annoyed that as much as £90,000 was collected from them. Were they consulted? The Minister: I think there was correspondence, but none of them liked it. It was not' their money, it was the money of the Maori people, which, under Statute, they were obliged to give. If we left it alone the surest thing is that the Treasury would have got hold of it. I think the Native Trustee wants it now. Extracts From Letter Mr. Quilliam produced a letter dated May, 1031, from Sir Apirana to Mr. lai Mitchell, and read out the following excerpt; “A breathing space for the consolidation of work commenced will be required, or there will be no waste. Treasury, Lands and Agriculture are watching us closely and if you trip they will have something to say." “You seem to have realised the Audit’s curiosity way back in 1931?” Mr. Quilliam commented. Sir Apirana; You want to put a sinister meaning in that? It v\as just a precaution, 'ihe Treasury was bound to watch us and the Lands Department also would be taking an interest in us, and in how our schemes progressed. Mr. Finlay; The letter was found in Mr. Mitchell’s oSce in a drayer marked “private.’’ That was what Mr. Mitchell complained about previously. That drawer, as he expressed it, had been broken into and his private correspondence used by the Com mission.

Mr. Justice Smith: So far as we were concerned it was in the office lurniture, and we were entitled to examine it. Mr. Quilliam mentioned a letter from Sir Apirana to Tupere Kingi, another officer of the department, of which part of the context was in Maori. “Russia has nothing on this inquiry,” Mr. Finlay interjected at inis stage. “That is most unfair comment,’’replied Mr. Justice Smith. “1 should like to hear what you have to say in justification of that.” Mr. Finlay explained that he was protesting against letters being taken from private cabinets. “1 may say that the impression lefton the Commission’s minds as a result 01 Mr. Mitchell’s action in taking away other hies from the Rotorua office to his own house whfen the audit was investigating, was that the matter required lurtner inquiry,” Mr. Justice cuiith said in repry. “The Commission, therefore, asked for them to be sent down. Accordingly, files have been sent down, or some of them, and Horn an inspection which members of the Commisoion have made they refer entirely to public alfairs. It follows Irom mat mat Mr. Mitchell should not have removed those files as he din, and the impression left with us Is that they uiu& nave been concealed for some indirect purpose. To suggest it is wrong lor Mr. Quilliam or tue Commission to read these files of Mr. Mitchell's, 1 do not hesitate to say, has no loan da Lion, Mr. Finlay; 1 am rtferring to that correspondence which was taken from Mr, Mitchell’s desk in his oliice. These letters are part of that. Mr. Justice bmith (to Finlay): Your altitude at the opening of Luis Commission was that you had nothing to conceal. Now you are protesting uheu, obviously, public documents are produced to the Commission. Mr. Finlay; What 1 am complaining of is the use that is being made ox tUein. 1 suggest this inquiry should be made in Hie spirit of an inquiry and not with sinister suggestions maue in a left hand way. The correspondence dealt exclusively with departmental business and, in some respects, there is no record whatever on tiir Apirana’s files,” Mr, Justice {Smith continued. “These are among the Ittters Mr. Mitchell complained about, and their production shows that they are office letters. The explanation lie made, so far as I can see, is not correct.” Reverting to the matter of Waiapu Farmers’ Company, Mr. Quilliam asked if Sir Apirana agreed that the operations of Goldsmith had given a distinct advantage to the company over similar firms. Sir Apirana agreed in part, but said that ne was unaware that more than £lB,OOO of unemployment funds had passed through tae books of Waiapu Farmers. He had been chairman of the company from 1912 co October, 1932. He had resigned because of the inconsistency of his position as chairman and Minister at the same time. At the conclusion of the cross-exam-ination by Mr. Quilliam, Sir Apirana was questioned by Mr. Justice Smith on the broad aspects of development work.