SOLID NIGHT’S DEBATE ON LICENSING BILL

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume LXXXIII, Issue 20012, 1 December 1927, Page 7

SOLID NIGHT’S DEBATE ON LICENSING BILL

MR COATES’ PROPOSAL TO REGISTER BARMEN MEETS WITH HOSTILE CRITICISM SEVERAL FRESH AMENDMENTS MADE ON RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE STAGE [ Per Press Association. ]

WELLINGTON, Nov. 30. When the House of Representatives went into committee to-day on the Licensing Amendment Bill, discussing clause 5, which deals with national restoration, Mr H. E. Holland (Leader of the Opposition) said he still could not believe that there was any serious intention to put the Bill upon the Statute Book. Mr Holland said he had tried over and over again to get from the Prime Minister a direct statement as to whether he did or did not intend to pass the Bill into law, but so far he had failed to get a direct reply. All the answers had been in the opposite direction. Looking at the matter from that point of view ho could not help thinking that the whole thing was a huge waste of time and that they were only fooling with the question. If the Prime Minister would give the House an assurance that the Bill would pass into law, that would alter the whole situation. They had a right to know that the question was whether the Bill was going on to the Statute Book or whether they were just going to fool away hours of time and get nowhere. The Bare Majority The Primo Minister (the Rt. Hon- J. G. Coates) that so far as the amendments made in the Bill ■were concerned, ho was in favour of them, except tho bare majority. He would not support the Bill so long as it contained that provision and he would not even move the third reading. If the Bill passed the House and was sent to the Legislative Council that body could overhaul it as they liked,* and then the House would have the opportunity of of reviewing it again. He asked the House to give the Bill fair consideration. The majority of members wanted the Bill brought back to where it was. Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne): It would have been better to have left it there.

The Prime Minister: That is my opinion tooSir Joseph Ward (Invercargill) asked the Prime Minister whether, if the Bill passed both Houses with the bare majority in it, would he sign the requisition to the Governor-General to assent to it. The Prime Minister said he had no desire to be disrespectful to the member who ha»d spoken but ho must ask him to wait and see. Mr Coates then moved as an amendment a sub-clause providing for a poll for the restoration of licenses, such poll to be carried if more than one half of the voteers vote in favour of restoration. This was agreed to on voices. Important Amendments Mr Lysnar protested against these important amendments being brought down without notice had said it was quite impossible for members to grasp them and deal with them fairly and intelligently. The Prime Minister then moved an amendod* sub-clause which would enable licencing centres to restore licenses on a maxiu-um of one to every 500 electors of a district and a minimum of one to every 1500 electors. Mr Lysnar protested that this was a weak giving-in to the prohibition party in the event of restoration being voted,. Every existing license, when prohibition was carried, should be restored without any reference to the population basis. This was underhand business —it was the sort of thing prohibition was teaching the people to do. The amendments proposed by the Prime Minister were agreed to and tho Prime Minister then rnovefti tho following addition on to sub-clause (e): — Notwithstanding anything to tho contrary in the last prec.odi.ng paragraph, if the proposal in favour of national restoration is arrived at. the first poll taken after the poll at which the proposal in favour of national prohibition is carried, the following provisions shall apply, namely: (1) No licenses shall be gran rod in a former no-license district unless the determination of the electors of that district at the poll taken in accordance with tho next succeeding section is in favour of restoration of licenses therein, and (2) the number of publicans’ licenses to be granted in any other licensing district or in any borough situated within such licensing district shall not exceed the number of such licenses in force in such district or in such borough, as the case may be, immediately prior to the coming into force of the determination in favour of national prohibition. A technical alteration was made, he said, in the definition of k/ privrfte bar” in clause 9. The Prime Minister proposed to strike out clauses 16, 17, ami IS, dealing with the standard of accommodation provided, by licensed premises. Members Protest Messrs T- W. Rhodes (Thames) and G. W. Forbes (Hurunui) protested against the deletion of these clauses, which they regarded as most important to the public Mr V- H. Potter (Roskill) said these were the very clauses the public were /Demanding. Mr Coates said he had put these clauses in as compensation to the public for the extended tenure given in the original Bill, but as the tenure had not been extended and the majority had been cut down he thought they must be fair and give the licensee something. He therefore preferred, to have the law stand as at present. Mr H. Atmore (Nelson) said he could not understand the Prime Minister denying the general public the ordinary sanitary condition of a bathroom.

Mr A. Harris (Waitemata) thought the present law gave licensing committees ample room to deal with accommodation for the public-

Mr Forbes maintained that the m«*n who were keeping god houses would not object to clauses 17, 17, and 18. The Prime Minister’s proposal to strike them out was all in favour of those houses, which would not supply decent accommodation. Either the trade or the prohibitionists seemed to dominate the positions and the general public had no say. Because the Prime Minister’s party had turned hrm down, he, ih a fit of pique had turned round and said he would do nothing. The Number of Booms Mr H. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East) thought the 20 rooms insisted on by the Prime Minister’s clause were too many. Mr Forbes said they could reduce the number of rooms if necessary, but in view of the fact that the hotels hud a monopoly of the sale of liquor, he considered they should supply reasonable accommodation. Mr Atmore asked the Prime Minister if he would retain the clauses with a reduced number of rooms. If he did not do so, he was helping prohibition, because the public would resent bad accommodation. The Prime Minister said he appreciated that point, but he would adhere to liis decision to withdraw the clauses. Air E. P- Lee (Oamaru) said the clauses proposed to be struck out referred only tv new liecntes, and licensing committees had ample power to deal with the position. After further discussion the clauses were withdrawn, the Prime Minister piomising to reconsider them. At clause 24, Mr ,R. W. Smith (Wai ma. no) moved an amendment ’otendnn to g.ve the Press in the King Country the right to publish liquor ad/ertiselueuta The Attorney-General (the Hon. F. J. Rolleston) who was temporarily in charge of the Bill, said he agreed vvit.n the principle of the amendment, but could not accept it as drafted. He suggested the postponement of th.- 9 clause tc give time fox further consideration and the clause was postponed. At clause 28 Mr P. Fraser (Wellington central) asked, and the Minister promisee* to take into consideration the proposal, for legislation to prohibit the employment in breweries and bottling stores of persons under 21 years of ageAir Lee asked that clause 32 be so amended that the law relating to the taking of liquor into proclaimed areas and into no-license districts be made uniform and* the Alinis-te-r promised to look ivto me discrepancy pointed out. Air Potter objected to clause 33, granting an extension for tho sale of liquor at social functions on police recommendation. I Air T. AL Wilford (Hutt), Air W. A. |Veitch (Wanganui) Mr F. N. Bartram (Grey Lynn), and the Hon. D. (Kaiapoi) favoured the extension of this favour to chartered clubs. The Prime Alinister said this could not be done without a new clause. Mr Lysnar urged that the concession should aiso extend to restaurants. A member: What about pie carts! Air J. A. Lee (Auckland East) argued that so long as they had Continuance, there should be less restriction on the use of liquor at banquets. If people had to drink six or eight (toasts in water, they would suffer from i rheumatism. i Mr Fprbes urged that tho extended hour should be to 10.20 p.m. The Prime Alinister said ho could not accept that proposal, but he was prepared to include chartered clubs if they had dining rooms on their premises. On the motion of Afr Wilford an amendment was inserted to give effect to this. A Matter of Control. At clause 34, providing that tho registration of barmaids be transferrod !from the Labour Department to the :Police Department, Mr H. E. Holland :said although he was certain that the (Bill was not going on the Statute Book J and that the whole discussion was faricieal, he would object to any section of wage workcis being taken out of :thc control of the Labour Department iand being placed under the Police Dei partment. He wante 1 to know why ;such a clause had been placed in the [Bill and who asked for it. It could ido no good and would only irritate those most conccrend. The Hotel Workers’ Union should be consulted before such a step was taken. Mr Coates said the Labour Department was anxious to be relieved of the duty of the registration of barmaids. The police administered the law and were in a better position to watch the observances of the law. It was many years now since barmaids were compelled to register, yet many of them were just as young and good looking as ever, and the suggestion had been made that a certain amount of trafficking in certificates was going on. Mr Armstrong said the proposal in the clause was an insult to barmaids, who were just as respectable as any other section of workers. The Hon. C. J. Anderson said barmaids were nominally registered by the Labour Department, but the work was actually done by the police. The clause was struck out on the voices. “Bowsers for Boozers? * Mr Fraser objected to the new clause proposed by the Prime Minister proposing to register barmen by police. He urged that this placed these men on a plane with criminals. The clause

had not been asked for and he suggested that it be held over till tho men concerned had been consulted. The Prime Alinister said he took full responsibility for tho clause. It was necessary to have reliable men retailing liquor, and this provision would in course of time get responsible men behind the bars and so elevato the tone of the trade. Air Potter: It is raising the status of a profession. He will be able to put B.AI. after his name. The Prime Minister: I am not joking. I am serious. It might create a close corporation, but if that will im- i prove the character of the trade I will vote for a close corporation every time. On resuming after supper the Hdn. F. J. Rolleston, who was in charge of the Bill, said the Prime Alinister was quite prepared to meet representatives of the barmen and to reconsider tho clauses in the fight of their representations. Mr J. A. Lee (Auckland East) said if this registration was insisted on every barman would be expected to estimate at a glance the cubic capacity of each customer. In these circumstances barmen should have some measure of protection, and to that end every customer should hive his plimsol mark plainly exhibited. If this was not done they would require sonic mechanical means of supply, and R would not be long before they had bowsers for boozers as part of the country’s social equipment. The Clause Carried Discussion on the clause providing for the registration of barmen was continued till after midnight when a division was taken, the clause being agreed to by 51 votes to 21. A new clause was also passed thai futu-fc restoration polls in districts which voted licenses out shall be carried on a majority of 55 per cent. Air C. J. Rolleston (Waitomo) moved a new clause giving the right to resikijents in the King Country to take a poll as to whether there should or should not be licenses in that district. He suggested that if licenses were carded they should be for only beer and light wines. The rijebate was proceeding when the telegraph office closed.