THE BUDGET DEBATE

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume LXXXI, Issue 18823, 13 July 1923, Page 5

THE BUDGET DEBATE

STILL TALKING (Per Press Association). WELLINGTON, July 12. A LABOUR TIRADE. In the House of Representatives this afternoon the debate on the Budget was resumed by Mr Sullivan, who dealt with the raid upon wages, contending that whereas the cost of living was 56 per cent, more than in 1914, .some public servants were only receiving an increase in salary of 3G per cent. On this oasis the Government was taking food out of the mouths of children, and clothes off their backs, and the Government should hang their heads in shame at the effect ol their policy. No other Government had made such drastic inroads upoi the people’s standard of living, and they were therefore no longer worthy of the people’s confidence. The Budget proposed the introduction of ten thousand immigrants during the year, but until labour and housing conditions in the Dominion improved the Labour Party would strenuously oppose any such proceedings, ihe Government had given a remission of taxation to large land owners, the direct effect of which was to defeat the operation of the graduated land tax which was intended to burst up big estates. The Government had no progressive land policy, and outside what it had done for the soldiers they were doing nothing to pvt people on the land. What hope then would their ten thousand immigrants have of getting land. If the Government were not opening up land one might suppose they would do something to develop the secondary industries They had done nothing of th? kind, yet if we manufactured much of what we consume instead of importing these goods the Dominion would be carrying at least a* quarter of a million additional population

MR LYSNAR HITS BACK. Mr Lysnar .Gisborne) invited the Labour Party to show where the Reform Party’s ‘and policy was wrong. The only thing wrong with it was that there were too many restrictions. There was too much talk of aggregation and people should be encouraged to develop the virgin country of the Dominion. The Budget had been described by Labour members as a “fairy tale,” but it was a better “fairy talo” than the Labour Party’s policy, which provided for confiscation. Labour criticism of the Reform Partv’s policy had been too flippant, and there was nothing in it. Mr Lysnar said something should be done to prevent water escaping from Lake Waikaremoana in order that the hydro-electric scheme there might noj be impaired in any way. He had been informed that it would cost £IO,(XX) to stop the leakage,, but he considered the expenditure would be worth while if it cost three to four times that amount. The speaker was opposed to the Govcinment putting money into a shipping line, but something should be done to give producers better shipping facilities. With the present rates of freight a ship could pay its way loaded on one trip only. Loaded Loth ways a prelit of £14,000 or £15,000 could be made on a 10,000-ton vessel. The producers of this country should secure six suitable ships which would be procurable at under £lOO,OOO, and this would result in a vast improvement on the present methods even if these six ships were kept lying idle in Wellington Harbour while other companies lowered their charges, it would be a good premium to pay, and a good insurance. Mr R. McKeon (Wellington South) : “What about a State line?”

“I do not believe in State going in for these things,’’ replied Mr Lysnar, who added that he approved of "lie shipping scheme evolved by the conference of producers some time ago. However, he did not appiove of the Government contributing to the scheme as had been suggested by the conference. Farmers were asking for legislation ;n respect to shipping, and l\e Government should take it up. He did not think there would be much opposition to it in the House.

MR RANSOM’S VIEWS. Mr Ransom declared that in the matter of land settlements especially civil settlement, there was a disposition on the part of the Government to go s.ow so slow that no movement of any Kind could be observed The soldiers’ repatriation scheme had been a success only because it was largely taken out of the hands of Departmental officers, and put under the management of local committees. It was a pity the same policy had not been observed with regard fro soldiers’ settle men ts,. The Government ajjpeared to have no sympathy with the wag j workers, with the result that the Government’s policy and administration broke down so soon as it touched the workers. The Government should send a representative to America to study Henry Ford’s system of organisation, under which he produced more at a cheaper rate than any other manufacturer. Referring to Government bortrowing, he said the cheapest loan got was the 42 millions obtained from the savings of the people through the Post Office Savings Banks. He ridiculed the Government's confer tion that the present banks were better than a State bank, because they paid taxation. They did not pay taxes. It was the people who paid these taxes, and the banks had first to get the money out of their customers before they could pay the demands of the State. After paying taxation the hanks fetill made a large profit and strengthened their large reserves. Any taxes the banks paid wore passed on to the people, and so long as that was the case so long would the Liberals continue to advocate a State bank.

Mr Armstrong maintained that the profits of the wealthy classes were greater during the past few years than ?ver before the war, and they were better able to pav a higher rate of taxation than over before in the country’s history. There therefore should bo absolutely no reduction in taxation in the direction indicated by the Budget. Those who were getting the spoils under the present administration was shown by the profits made by the big insurance companies doing business in the Dominion. He quoted a document showing that the New Zealand Insurance Company had increased the share value held by its original shareholders by 64 per cent., the South British Co by 1500 per cent., the National Insurance So. by 600 per cent., and the Queensland Insurance Co. by 1600 p*r cent. The shareholders in one com pany were getting £79 per year on every £lOO investor. Those in another were getting £9O oi. every £lOO invested. He criticised the Government’s lending policy under the Advances Act, contending it was only window dressing and would not realise anticipations.

SIR JOHN LUKE APPLAUDS TUB' GOVERNM ENT. At 7.30 the debate was continued bj Sir John Luke, who said no more disagreeable task could have been faced by I any Government than that which, ecufronted the present Government last year in connection with retnuu I The Government had as i.meh consider- * inion lor the State cmp'iy.-s as tLa occupants of the Uppositio 1 Beuehe#,' tnd had not put the. thirl •‘cut” into operation. Il was not fair to say. as the member for Christchmcn had said, that the Government “gic* - *‘i" in what it had done. The sp <iker quote.! figures to show the decline m the cutpuS of New Zealand’s product -. in recent •years, in ord r to show how serious : the depression had Loon. But little op- ; position had been shown to ihe r« \isio.n of the tariff, w.'iich was indicative oi , the confidence oi the people m th • Gov* iernment. Unless then? was a reduo tion in taxation nn-’n plo;. ment would increase. Sir John then appealed l«l ; rhe Premier to reduce < i p.ii'.v taxifc* I tion as much as posMbie in order to Ipre a stimulus 1. > secondary Indus- : Dies. He hoped there would be no | further eml.-a: -Ration on State enterI prises, but that greater encouragement j would be given to piivatc « fl’orts to develop the resources ol the Dominion., ; It did not seem as if there was very, much enthusi.i ni about lac projxisal io advance 95 per cent towards the cost ol building homes. Ihis proposal gavefreehold security as ag;.iu l an agree-' i incut to purchase under the old £lO de-j 1 posit system. Il derrng to taxation, he| liegretted then? was i.o. a free break- 1 lasi table, hut urgeci that at all exists the country must preserve the policy' of sound finance. MR MASTER 4 TALKS STATE BANK Mr Masters defendei the proposal establish a Slate bank, in support of which he quoted th'; record of th© I Commonwealth Bank, which he claimed was doing infinite! y b< ttei sc rvice to Australia than th< B c o New Zealand was doing for New Zealand'. Justt now, while th?, agitetion re a State bunk was going on. ii.- Imai banks • wore handing out n.-onej fix elj. nut that was only temporary, and lie had no hesitation in declaring that the day would come when we would have a State hank in Now Zealand, because it was idle to argue that privatelyowned banks were working in the interests of the people, and not m the interc sts of share hold rs D< lii with the shipment of the Dominion’s primary products, ho dwelt on the disabilities under which shippers suffered, particularly in the matter of the irregularity of shipments. So serious had the position become that it was one of the first problems which should bo attacked by any (Government which happen© to be in office. If the Dair\- Produce Export Bill was such a g <od thing as •.he Government pretended, they could have nut it through last session. They had the majority to do it, so that if there was blame in tl.at connection the blame must rest with the Government, not with the Opposit’on. From 1920 to 1923 nothing had been done to secure a reduction on produce freights ter London. For this the Premier calmly Mamed the Oppo-’ition, which was simply absurd. The remedy was to bo found

in co-operative shipping, rather than ir State lines, but lie was sorry the Premier did not se?m to ieali.se the necessity of something being done. Tho farmers, however, saw the importance of it, because they wore being made tew realise it financially Six ships could b*' purchased for a million pounds, th© e ffect of which would be an immediate reduction in freights. They could not hope to break clewn the shipping ring[ except by competition ANOTHER LAB(RTR LANCE. Mr Parry contended that the position of workers to-day had not rela-j lively improved against the position of sixty ve.u-s ago. To day they had to fight for every increase they received just as strenuously as m former times. : ihe Budget was a t<nr statement of the' financial position oi the Dominion, but he questioned whether we could safely continue the Reform Party s borrowing pMiey. The financial ciifl’ic u’iies of th.country were conveniently brushed aside by Government supporters, who at election times, were ivady to talk about conditions in Russia rather that face the difli ultios of their owu country. Those difficultit-s, however, were not all the product of the Reform Goveminent. They were in a measure the result of th? Liberal administration. HON. NOSWORTHY. Hon. Nosworthy said complaint had been made that the Government had done nothing to secure reduction m dairy freights, but the fact was that the passing c-f the. Dairy Produce Export Bill was obstructed by Ales-: s Masters and Smith, oi lur.maki. Th© Meat Control Board had sec ured a reduction in meat freights, and the same thing would have happened with dairy freights if a similar comln iiaoii cf farmers could have been brought to hear on shipping companies. II proposed to go on with ihe Bill this sion, and it was for its oppoi.c ties to take up what attitude they hk M. The Premier had promised a reduction in lailway freights on dairy prodtiv? and when the Premier made a promise h<kept Lis word. Reductions had beer made in charges in London and elsewhere, the total oi which was the substantial sum of £1,250.000, which was a record of which any Government might he proud. Discussing shipping, lie declared that the CooH.ioiiwca th line had lost eight millions an.l failure had followed State lines in Can* la The Government of New Z u.inl had kept farmers out of trouble by not dabbling in shipping, and, un kc some other countries, we had not paid dc<x _ - Ij for our experience. He dof-unled thf purchasing of land for sol li. rs’ sctJ<

ment, which he c'aini-‘4 ha I nor jao aiything like so disastrous as some < the Liberal purchases for kplt’ic workers. They settled th? work is a right, and very nearly settled th" c oin tiy, too. Had the Liberal Pa'ty r< mained m pow er much longer, the i lai d purchases would 1 r-.c placed tl in bankruptcy. Th" tippos ticii attacked ’.he Government in coi nection with lan 1 policy, they alwn found Ministers able o giv< them bac all thev want.

MR PERRELLE. Mr Perrelle claimed that the Lacen Party had laid down a solid foundk tion of land settlement, which wa standing to the Domir ion to-day. The liberalised tenure, provided chea money, and nursed markets, and thei« by opened up a highway toti.c p>-ospv: ity of the country. He l’avoui<».l n duetion in expenditure on land defenc e but we should give generously to th Navy So vital was this to an isla: ccuniry like New Zealand, and to tli Empire as a whole, that he thougl] wo should give an even larger suhsi than he al present contempl ited Adjournment of the aehal.* was moi el b.v Mr Holland, and the House roi a; 11.50 till 2.30 to-morrow.