ALLEGED MURDER

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume LXXXI, Issue 18784, 18 May 1923, Page 5

ALLEGED MURDER

THE COOPER CASE YESTERDAY’S EVIDENCE The hearing of the murder charge preferred against Daniel Cooper and his wife was continued at the Supreme Court, Wellington, yesterday. Considerable discussion followed an intimation by Mr Macassey that lie intended to introduce evidence regarding three other babies that had been handed over to Cooper. Tire Judge overruled objection to this course. The evidence taken concerned the Lupi-Lister child. It was to the effect that Cooper, the mother of tfhe child and another woman went by train to Johnsonville with the baby, which it was said would be taken by people waiting to adopt it. The mother did not see the child since, and had not been able to obtain information regarding its wlhci’cabouts.

(Per Press Association). WELLINGTON, May 17. The Cooper case was resumed in the bupreme Court this morning; concerning other babies. Mr. Macassey intimated that he. proposed to introduce evidence regarding three other babies which had been handed over to Cooper or Mrs. Cooper for purposes of adoption. To this procedure he said he understood Mr. Treadwell proposed to object. Mr. Treadwell said he must respectfully submit that any such evidence was inadmissable, because the, medical evidence went to show there was a strong probability that the body found was not the body of McLeod's baby. There was n« evidence to show that McLeod's baby was dead or murdered, and unless this; additional evidence was admitted there could be no evidence in that direction. There could be no conviction for murder, he submitted, (1) unless death had taken place, and the best proof of death was the find-< ing of the body; (2) unless t\e bodyfound was identical with the deceased person; (3) unless death was due to unlawful violence, criminal negligence, or some other cause not innocent. He quoted at great length legal authorities in support of this view. The evidence so far led wasnot such as a jury could convict on. He therefore claimed that the evidence the prosecution now proposed to ask the Court to consider could' not be submitted.

Mr. Wilford, on behalf of Mrs. Cooper formally objected to the evidence on the broad ground that it was not admissable, and asked his> Honour for a ruling in order to protect him in any appeal he might lodge. Mr. Macassey, in reply, quoted authorities in support of his contention that the was entitled to submit evidence to the Court which would prove> a system on the part of accused. He submitted that the conduct of accused disclosed systematic baby farming, that there was no real intention of the adoption of children, adoption was a mere sham and fraud, that tha death of McLeod’s baby was not natural, and that it was murdered by accused, and he was entitled to call evidence which would prove the system under which this was done.

His Honour said he had no doubt, it was his duty to admit the evidence, proposed to be submitted by the. Crown. Mr. Treadwell had asked him to say there was no evidence, which he could properly submit to a jury that McLeod’s child was dead or murdered, or was murdered by accused. He had no desire to go oven the whole of the evidence, but it was his duty to consider the issues raised by this evidence. All other cases of this class tried in their Courts were similar in principle to this one, and it came to be a common practice of Judges to admit evidence proving a, system. He would admit the evidence. Whether the point should be reserved could be considered later. THE LUPI-LISTER. CHILD. Mr. Macassey then called Lily Lister, who gave evidence as to the birth of the Lupi-Lister child on the 13th November, 1922. She waa taken by Cooper to a Mrs. King’s, place in Martin Street, where her child was born. Subsequently she, was sent by Cooper, in company with a Miss Adams, to Newlands. At the Johnsonville railway station she was. met by Cooper and Mrs. Cooper. There she left her baby with Mrs. Cooper and Miss Adams, and she was taken on to Newlands by Cooper. Her belief was that, in accordance with an arrangement with Cooper, someone was coming to meet the Coopers at Johnsonville station to adopt the child. She never saw either baby or the clothing it had on again. Cooper afterwards told her that the baby was all right. She would not have parted with the baby if she had known it was not going to be adopted. She saw no one at Johnsonville or Newlands on the night of her arrival who might have taken the child to adopt it. Cooper had since told her he expected to hear from the people who had adopted the child, but he never told her their name, it being one of the conditions of adoption that she should not know who they were. She never signed any adoption papers in connection with her child. She made a formal demand for her child from Cooper, but it had not been produced.

To Mr. Hanna: The suggestion about the adoption of the baby came first from her, not from Cooper. To Mr. Wilford: The last person she saw with her child was Miss Adams at the Johnsonville railway station. When Mrs. Cooper returned to her house she did not have the baby with her. She said the people who were to adopt the child had not arrived, but she did not wait. After she went to bed at Newlands Cooper left the house, and it might havo been half an hour before he returned. She then asked him if the baby was; all right, and he replied “Yes." She would not swear that the shawl produced was the one she had round her baby, but it was very like it. She saw a good deal of Mrs. Cooper while at Newlands. She could not say; Cooper had any “extraordinary” control over Mrs. Cooper, but she generally did as he desired, although; she might object.

To Mr. Macassey: On one occasic%\ Mrs. Cooper wanted to go to town, Cooper saying someone was coming out. She replied: “You make ma the dumping ground for everyone, I but Miss Lister will be the last.” Dr. Hector gave evidence as to thq condition of the second baby found at Newlands. To him it appeared to be a full-time child. It appeared to. have been buried about a year. He could not say if it had ever lived, nor the cause of death. To Mr. Treadwell: The body might have been in the ground eighteen, months. It was very difficult to estimate the exact time. Similar evidence was given regarding the third body found. It was more crushed than the second body, leading to the conclusion that it had been pressed down into the. grave. It had a binder round thq body, indicating that it was about; seven days’ old. It may have been in the ground about six months. Reasoning on the structure of the skeletons, he should say the second body was a male and the third a female.

To Mr. Treadwell: There were no| means by which the sex of the children could be determined definitely. OTHER WITNESSES. Hugo Lupi described the arrangements he made with Cooper for the adoption by people in Palmerston; North of the Lupi-Lister child. Cooper told him the people he had in, view were well-to-do. and it would; only cost him about £3O. AN INDIGNANT GREEK. After lunch, Mr. Macassey read to Lupi a statement made by Cooper to the police to the effect that Lupi arranged to take Miss Lister's child, away from Newlands, and a description of how those arrangements were carried out, on 2 3rd November.

Lupi’s reply was: “It is a lie, right through. It is a nightmare hq (Cooper) had while in the lock-up." Witness declared that he had never at any time seen his baby. He never paid Cooper any money, becausq Cooper was to get his money when, adoption was completed. On 23rd November, 1922, he was working on, the roof at Mrs. Christie's house, Reef St., Island Bay, and was not at; Newlands at all. When brought face to face with Cooper at the police, station, and Cooper’s statement was read over to him, he called Cooper “a dirty liar.” He was very- angry, lost his head, and called Cooper’s solicitor a liar too, because he backed Cooper up.

Salve Greco, a fisherman, produced a diary to show that he and Lupi were working together at Christie's on 23rd November, 1922. He had tea at Lupi’s house, and was with him till late in the evening. Vincent Barnao corroborated the evidence of the above witness. THE BABY’S BIRTH. Minnie King gave formal evidence of the birth of the Lupi-Lister child at her house. Cooper brought Miss Lister to the house and took her and the child away. It was a strong, healthy child. Cooper told her the child was going to be adopted by some people in Palmerston North, but subsequently said the people would not take it because she had notified its birth at the police station. Cooper said she had made arrangements for the adoption of Lister’s child. She retorted that Cooper had made the arrangements. He called her a liar. She replied that she was not a liar, and that he knew where the child was. Cooper guaranteed her payment of £B, but she could only get £4 or £5 from, him., MEDICAL EVIDENCE. Dr. Wright gave similar evidence to that given by Dr. Hector regarding the condition of the second and third | bodies found at Newlands. Dr. Hector, recalled, said the; wound found on the body of the; child said to be Miss McLeod’s child, would have been sufficient to have caused death. A TRIP TO JOHNSONVILLE. Effiie Adams deposed that Cooper asked her to go with him to MrsKing’s house. She there met Lily Lister, who had a baby. They came, back to Cooper’s office and left for Johnsonville by the 8.4 5 train. On, arrival at Johnsonville Miss Lister went to Newlands with Cooper. Mrs. Cooper and witness walked on as far as the bridge. Mrs. Cooper then, took the baby from witness, and witness returned to the station and left for Wellington by train. The ar rangement was that Cooper was to return from Newlands and meet Mrs. Cooper. Witness understood from Cooper that someone was to meet them at Johnsonville for the purpose of adopting Miss Lister’s child. That was the last she saw of the child.

FORMAL EVIDENCE. Ethel Tucker deposed that Cooper had told her Miss Lister’s child was in a good home. Sergeant Dinnie gave formal evidence as to photographs taken by him of the grounds, graves, etc., at Newlands. Dr. Smyth deposed to attending Miss Lister at her confinement. The Court at this stage adjourned until 10 o'clock to-morrow morning.