PARLIAMENT

Wanganui Chronicle, Issue 12856, 23 October 1912, Page 8

PARLIAMENT

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Per Press Association.) WELLINGTON, October 22

Tho Legislative Council met at 2-30. Tho Public Service Bill was^ re-eom--mitted for tho purposo of making _ a number of amendments, all of whicii ■were of a, technical character, save that in clause 12 it was thought desirable lo provide- that the Government should inspect Departments before the Commissioner entered upon his duties. The original clause provided that tho Commissioner himself should inspect. Clause 37, requiring a separate examination to be held for the professional and clerical tlivisions ; was deleted, and tho Bill was reported a1; amended. Tho Hon. Mr. Bell moved the second reading of the Defence Bill, passed by tho House. Ho said an effort had been made to meet the difficulties of the reJiigouf; objector as far as possible, and he hoped members would recognise that these objectors could bo accommodated with r.mbulanco duty.

After a. brief discussion tho second reading was carried on tho voices.

The Widow.';' Pension* Bill ancl +ho ~ Taieri Lond Drainage Bill were read a second time.

v TLo Council rose

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Tiio House met .at 2-30. THE IRON AND STEEL INDUSTRY

The Premier moved to set up a Selocfc Committee to consider a petition from P. W. Haybittlo and five, others regarding the iron and steel industry in the' Dominion, the Committee to consist. ef Messrs. Craigie. Fraser, Lee, Malcolm, Nosworfchy, McKenzie, .Sidey, Veiteh. G. M. Thompson, Wilkinson, Davey, and the mover, and to have power to call for persons and papers, the Committeo to report to tho House within seven days. Tho Government had no intention of introducing legislation on tho matter this session, he said, but ho understood that some important evidence was available, and would be put before the Committee. The motion was carried. \

THK HINE-WABD INCIDENT

Mr. Hine presented the report of tho Public Accounts Committee, statin,'; thta Sir Joseph Ward had refused to withdraw tho words complained of at the Committee's meeting on Friday evenim;.

Sir Joseph Ward detailed what had ■occurred that morning at the Committee meeting. Ho stated that the official record war, incomplete. At Mr. Allen's instance the report was altered. Every member of tho Committee who liad attempted to speak on the resolution of tho Houso liad been ruled out of order with a rod of iron, and rendered absolutely dumb. Tho minutes of tlie Committee should have been absolute in their exactitude. He desired to say he had nj personal grievance against the Chairman of the Committee. He was sorry for what had occurred, but he could nob withdraw his words. He contended the Chairman's attitude was hostile throughout the proceedings, and •was-contrary to conciliation. He asked tlr> Speaker's ruling whether . the 'Chairman had power to rule that the House's resolution could not be discussed.

The Speaker ruled that the Chairman's word was final.

The Hon. Mr. Allen said the only consideration before tho Committee was whether Sir Joseph Ward would withdraw hi 3 words.

Sir Joseph Ward, continuing, said the resolution of the House had never been ix?foro tho Committee. The • extract of the evidence put before the House last night was incomplete, and had been amplified at tho instance of the Minister-in-Chargo of tho Committee. If party prejudice was to be carried so far as to causo a false basis on which to proceed against a •mrblic man then there was a poor lock-ont for a public man in Now Zealand. Fortunately there was • public opinion beyond the House which would see that fair .play-.;was dealt out to nil.

Mr. Hanaiv said th.c gag had been anplied tr» Messrs. Craigie, Myers, himself,. and others. . Tho pro,cee4.iag<> of tfce'j Committee had been carried out on tho Star Chamber system. t > •■■■=. The Hon. Mr. Allen said'if it sas nl- j leged tho Chairman was undjily strict^ there was no doubt feeling .was; ;manifestod because of liis actions^ in Parlia-i incnt. - "' '■■' ." ''■'""

Sir Joseph Ward: ..Thai, 'isinojisense

The Hon. Mr. Allen:. "It is all very Tvell to say that, but I" know it is so ' Tif> contended that the right thing to do vns t-o withdraw. Noho/ty could uphold Sir Josonh Ward's attitude for ono moment. If he withdrew ho could then challenge tho Chairman's ruling Hy 'resolution.- Ho thought the Chair-

man had behaved himself well right through the hearing;, If Sir Joseph Ward would withdraw he was .sure Mr. Hine would meet -him in a generous manner. Right or wrong the Ohairman had to bo upheld. Messrs. Colvin, Hindmarsh, and Russell continued the debate till the dinner adjournment. . . The House resumed at 7.30 p.m.

Mr Witty continued the debate on the Public Accounts Committee report. He thought it was a pyty the chairman of the committee had not met Sir Joseph Ward half way. The House had not had an opportunity of considering what had led up to the retort of Sir Joseph Ward. They had- no right t-r pass a resolution condemning Sir Joseph Ward for what he had done, considering the way in which matters had been conducted.

Mr Ell said the chairman's question was one that really ought not to have been taken exception to.

Mr Hanan : It showed what he had '"? his mind.

Mr Lee: Sir Joseph Ward could not take offence at words passing in the chairman's mind. The question they had to consider.-was wlkther they wer'o to close the door to order -and open it to chaos. There was no doubt but th."the words should bo withdrawn.

Mr Tsit.t said Mr L-ee wanted his pound of flesh. The remark made by the chairman of the committee meant cither that Sir Joseph Ward had suggested a falsehood, or suppressed the truth. He thought that" if the chairman of the committee would rise up and state that he had pone too far, he was sure that the member for Awaraa would then act accordingly. t 7)r Newman considered the whole thing was sordid and squalid. Messrs Myers, Forbes, Pearce, Ell and MeCallum continued the debate, the last-named stating that Sir Joseph Ward would be- justified in going to prison rather than withdrawing^his statement.

Mr Fisher, defended the action of Mr Hi no.

Mr Hi no said ho had ruled in committee that before any reconsideration or tho report of the committee took place, the remarks made by Sir Joseph Ward must be withdrawn. He himself had shown no heat, and. he added, "when the volcano burst I was thunderstruck. There was nothing in mv manner to imply irritation or offensiveness." No challenge of his conduct had been made. He went on to say "If Sir Joseph Ward does the honourable thing, he will not find me lacking in doing my share." Sir Joseph Ward: "What does he mean by that ? If he does not think he was offensive, then he does not know lWiat offensivenossis." Continuing, Sir Joseph Ward said he could not see his way to withdraw his words. He looked upon the chairman's request .as a personal insult and, as a result, used the words complained of. He would rather he censured by the House than withdraw them. The chairman of the committee went out of his way to be offensive to him. He now submitted himselt to any judgment the House mi«*ht pronounce. °

£i r 'l? se Ph Ward then retired. Mi- Massey regretted having to move a resolution in connection with the inc.aent, though he would do the same tfnng if it affected a member of his mvn party. He moved that this House expresses regret that the right hoi 7 member for Awarua has not thoueht proper to withdraw the words taken do,™ and reported to the House by the Public Accounts Committee m™t" Sn!T;? SOw morod asan amendment that the House, while recognising that it is the duty of a member to withdraw any expression ruled to be unparliamentary, considers that in this case the circumstances were such as to warrant tho House in proceeding no further in the matter. Mr Veitqh, in seconding the motion, sara, to use a colloquialism, Sir Joseph fair to put their feet on his neck. The amendment was not intended as a reflection on the chairman of the committee but had been put forward by the .Independent.. Party in the House on its own volition, the object beino- to settle the matter amicably. ° Mr McKcnzie expressed surprise regret and dissatisfaction- with" the'attitude of the Government. He did' not thing a half-hearted:' amendment would t»e. acceptable to Sir Joseph Ward. He believed the incident would redound to,J.ne credit of.Sir Joseph Ward, i m i^^'tson's amendment was lost by 38 to 33.

After midnight, the Premier's motion was put, and carried by 39 to 32. The Speaker requested the Sergeant-st-Arms to request the attendance of tho member, for Awarua. When Sir Joseph Ward entered, ho was greeted with applause from the Opposition. The Speaker read the resolution to him.

Sir Joseph Ward said had he not felt deeply that an insult had been levelled nt him, he would never have taken the V, rn\ and .consistent stand he had taken. Had Mr Hinc stated that he had not intended to be offensive,. he would have withdrawn. He accepted tho censure lrom the standpoint of making a strong protest against:the partial conduct of the chairman. He thanked those who luiti spoken on his behalf. He accepted the decision with equanimity BIRTHS ANI) DEATHS REGISTRAThe Births and Deaths Registration JJiIJ was passed, and the House, rose ut v2.M a.m.