HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume 10, Issue 628, 18 July 1866, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, July 12. The Housemet at noon.. Prayers were read,’ and the minutes of last meeting read and confirmed. ; '' ' DISTILLATION. . j Major Richardson, byleave of the-HoUse, asked if the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government could give him an answer to - the question put by him on a previous day on-this subject., " ‘ *' Mr. Stafford said that he tvould bb prepared to' gfarefan, answer r qn‘ : .Tt|'esday.-. J • DEBTORS’ AND CRKOI'TORSV A'dfl 1 : Mr Hargraves was sorry that the House was likely, to be- disappointed' with:regard' to having'a new Act on this important .subject, after hearing the observations of the head* of the Government the other day, ‘ . Under these circumstances he thought that he Whs entitled'to -'ask fop- the -documents »m6n* tioifed-in the' motion put on the^pupersby him; andvespeeiaUy. for the,repop|s ; ,giveh , 'by thu : Chambers of ..Qqminerce throiighout.the Colony. . For his own part he thought it would., be to recur to the old system'than to continue the presentAct which held autrind icements to debtors to go through the Court-, and held-it in terrore)n over the heads of creditors;.,that they would do so".- '-It'was well- known that in very few: cases were' dividends paid, and he might say that the very first case, brought before the Ctmrt in Christchurch was still in abeyance. • He would therefore move,— ‘ • For copies of Reports from Inspectors, and other sources, relative .to the Working of tliU-U ebtqrs and Creditors Acts .of 1862 arid 1865, now in operation.?’ • - Mr. W.Wv Taylor had the greatest pleasure in seconding the motion, as he thought the present law was most disgraceful: ' He would even recommend that the -question should be-referred to a- well-chosen Select Oonftnittee. Mr: D. Bell hoped that such a course as that would not be pursued, as a similar one .was tried in 1862, . and the result was that the report was torn to pieces by every lawyer in the House... Mr. Stafford said that .the Government would have no objection to, giving the papers,' but he would remind the hon. gentleman who moved the motion that a number .of them were already printed/ He might say that .. neither the < late Government nor the.. present were responsible for the existing law. The late Government had followed in the course, pursuedby their predecessors, and had taken the opinions of the best authorities throughout the Colony, but had not introduced a Bill, and ; the House had appointed a Select Committee who drafted the Bill which was now-law. Indeed, he believed .that the Act of-last session in the appointment of Inspectors had acted as a very wholesome check, and had accelerated the realizing of- estates very materially. . The only question of delay was in the collection of fees, and .. this arose ; only in regard to estates sequestrated under law in force previous to last session. The papers moved for, however, showed all this, and the Government would riot, if the House chose, oppose the appointment of a Select Committee. Mr. Fitzgerald would bear testimony to the great inconvenience of the, .working of the present Act. He would not speak at length upon the matter at present, as it would, no doubt, be fully discussed before the end of the session, but he . might say that he could not see how the Inspectors Were paid out of the estates, as creditors never got anything. (Laughter.) Mr. Reynolds bore testimony to the great discontent felt m Dunedin with the-present law, which gave everythirig to the legal profession and nothing to creditors. . Mr. Hall asked if the hon. mover would object to adding the words “ and. any correspondence explaining tbe amounts of salary paid to Inspectors in bankruptcy, ” , Mat) or Richardson seconded the amend*, -mont. Mr. Clark expressed the great dissatisfaction felt in Auckland, and' gave an . instance in which a debtor - had refused to give any mfoririation to his creditors with respect to his estate, and,'shaking the Debtors and Creditors over" their heads,, threatened to go’through the Court, if they would not accept 10s. in the pound, which -they were glad‘to do.: He hoped'the motion would be pressed, and that some- further steps might be taken in the matter. • ; Mr. Hargreaves having shortly replied;, and assented to the amendment by thchon. member for ’, Heatlicoate • (Mr. Hall),; the ; question was. ; put, and the -vitiation,: as; amended, agreed to. v ‘ • . .. vMANAWATU.^BLOCK. .. . Mr. t Fitz Gerald, said that, the question ’ referred to in his motion was one which he did not intend to bring before the House tins session ; but,' as some of the letters he had received" ~ respecting the Manawatu block had not been published, /he would like to have them all laid before'the House. He would »therefore move,— ‘ £ That a copy of a letterrfrorii Mr. Fitgerald, dated the 11th day of. July,- 1866, to the Native Minister with its several enclosures, and with : authorized’ translations : of- such enclosures', - be - laid on the table of. this House. -Colonel-Haultain > said- that: the Government would have no' objection : to giving these papers.' - Mri JyO’NeiU did./not know wliat the contents, of these documents were ; but if they were analogous to other letters by the hon, member for Christchurch, it would be -; betted that they should lie' for ever on the Government shelves. Letters such as these had caused great, difficulty in the North’, and not lorigago a pamplet had been sent by a gentleman of the Middle Island to’the natives in the North, recommending them to mark off boundaries of their own between themselves and the pakeha, arid this had been acted on in one instance, and white men were prevented from crossing that line. It would be better if the hon. gentleman would devote his attention more to the prevention of crime in his own Province than to instilling such' ideas into the native mind. Mr. Atkinson said that such lines ‘ had

been drawn by natives in the part of the country from which he came long before the pamphlet referred tp had been published. The question was then put, and the motion agreed to. . MAUNGATAPU ‘MURDERS. . Mr, A. Richmond, :by-/permission of the House,- j askedvthe hon!. member at the head "of the Government whether.it-was the intention of the Government to cause a special sitting of the Supreme Court to be held at •Nelson for. the trial of the four men at present in .custody there on a charge of murder. -

Mr. Stafford said that the Government without having actually come to any-final determination.-were strongly of opinion that;it was desirable that those persons should- be brought to Wellington to be tried. This conclusion they had arrived at for several reasons, In .the first place it was deemed that the trial could take placeat'-an earlier date here than at .Nelson, and this was to be ; secured if possible in order not to interfere with Courts to be held elsewhere. -There were besides this other reasons .which would .no doubt suggest themselves, to lion, members 'why this should bedone, and .pne, of. these yas that it would tend, to alhiy. tbe qs:clteiqept. into 'Which i the -people of Nelson have fallen,' in consequence of the mystery which h'ad hitherto .•existed, with regard to these ■minder#/ and*- /which, waft,-day. by day changing into tho/ ktiqwledg)e rt a /series of crimes of -.the mpsfe dfebqpcaf. ,ssracter hadbepn-commitfed, ~. jCjfxthe second place .iti.w.ould.be.well :to ?. remote. these men to •Wellington 'for safe custody ,’ r The’gaol at -Nelson wa? not ,pf sufficient strehgtft to secure tb.em.there- without putting the Pro'vincial Governmentto. .a/:.great expense, .which would-be .scarcely .fair, .as-they had already expended a . good deal upon the -matter. The General ..Government had also thought that fepjhe. . proper administration of .justice th e venue . ought, to . be/.changed. These considerations had almrist’ induced the Government to take steps to enable them to carry out such measures, but the -final- decision- was not yet arrived at. He might-say that the Government had not done anything without consulting the Judge of the Supreme Court before whom the trial would take place. _ •■■/

Mr. C. Wilson wished to know if the hon. gentleman would object to say how many men would have to. be brought over as witnesses* as he was aware that a .great many had brought themselves into the position of witnesses . through the - very ' noble and praiseworthy action they had taken in this matter. .*.'.. ' ‘‘ /

Mr. Stafford said jthat it would be impossible to, state how many would have to be hrought .over,, but a great -number of them would have to come from the West Coast, and it would be just as easy to bring them'.over to Wellington as ‘to Nelson. This question also involved the difficulty of the different judicial districts, which at present existed, and. which had induced the Government to introduce the Hill which he had moved on a previous evening. There was a doubt even whether the jury of one Province could try men for crimes committed in another, and in this instance the ; crimes had been committed in no less than three Provinces. This was a matter of the greatest doubt, -and it had been thought that some such Bill as this should be introduced before any action was taken, otherwise the men might have to be tried in three different places. " '

Mr. Carleton put the question as to how this-would operate should the men have been committed. Mr. Stafford said there would. be no committal of the men until' after the. decision of the Legislature wasknown. They would be merely remanded from time to time. Tho House then adjourned. Friday, .July' 33. ;'

- Mr. Dillon Bell wished to invite attention to the cost incurred by the Country in theso sittings., • The House- had hitherto - done business of no importance ; parties appeared in fact like two combatants, neither desirous of - striking the first blow/ ; He believed if it whs known how mtich these sittings cost “ there * would riot be so much delay. Hc bfefgged to move, “ For a return showing the 'estimated daily cost of the sittings of both Houses of Assetribly; distinguishing the estimated amount of the honorarium as beretofor allowed /to members, cost' of lighting, firing, - and salaries of clerks-or other officers temporarily employed during the Session'

Mr. Cracroft Wilson seconded the motion.

The Hon. Mr Stafford thought the return would do a great deal of good. Tho -Government could not be expected to precipitate discussions on large propositions to which it was opposed. Thti'Government had dohe its best to forward th A business of the ‘country—-and had introduced 17 Bills in' one or other branch-of the Legislature,, being more . than*- c haiti “ been introduced in any previous Session iri’the same period. The Government had, indeed, to be thankful to the members generally that all thirigs had worked smoothly so far. Tli® defence of the country was also a large /question; arid being connected with finance, would be considered 'after it. - If there had riot been long sittings hitherto, it was not because the Government had not furnished the House with sufficient' pabulum,- but because r tbe House had- worked with such har/trioriy hitherto/ ! . ‘ He. hoped those members who. nad debatable questions to bring forward .such as separation to which he was opposed they would do so quickly.^—Adjourned'.