GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume 4, Issue 208, 13 September 1860, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

prepare as fast as tbeir opponents. . The amendment would omit just that part of the resolution that was of most importance. Mr.Carletou’s amendment was then put and negatived by 19 to 4. Mr. Carleton then moved that the resolution should be divided, and lost by 16 to 2. The original motion was then put, and passed 'iii'the affirmative. " '

Friday, August 17,

Mr. Fox moved that the original purchase deed of the r disputed block of land at Taranaki, and also a copy and translation thereof, be laid before the.house. Motion agreed to. Mr. Fox moved,that a respectful address be presented to his Excellency, requesting him to furnish this house with the particulars of, or any documents containing,’ a proposal ‘ to coerce a minority .of the Native proprietors who might be disinclined to sell land,’ referred to in the letter of the private Secretary to Mr. Carrington of Taranaki, dated 22nd March, 1859 ; and also a copy of his Excellency’s report to l or A/ajesty’s government on Native aftairs at Taranaki, and on such proposal to coerce the Natives, referred to, in the same letter.” Motion agreed to.

2 he hon. Mr. Weld was added to the select committee on the Lyttelton and 'Christchurch -.Railway bill, in room of Mr. Stafford.

The house then went info committee on the Resolutions on rVativc policy moved by the Native minister.

Resolution I.—“ That it is just and expedient to extend to the aborigines of New Zealand the advantages of civil government with the least possible delay.” Agreed to without discussion. 11. —“ 7'hat institutions for the Native people ought to be based upon their free assent, and be committed to their guardianship- The institutions ought also to be in harmony with the other institutions of the Colony, and adapted ultimately to merge therein.” Mr. Sewell suggested the omission of the .clause between “ based” and “guardianship,” but the amendment was negatived. 111. —“ That this House approves of the course taken by his Excellency the Governor, in summoning a general meeting of Native chiefs to confer with his Excellency, and to deliberate upon subjects affecting the interests of the aborigines. This house also assents to Lis Excellency’s proposal to. convene another such meeting in 1801, in order that it may he determined, amongst other things, whether similar assemblies ought to be periodically held.”

Mr. Sewell objected to. such a conference determining “ whether similar assemblies ought to be periodically held.” There should be some means of bringing the Native. Conference intjo formal communication with the Assembly. A long discussion ensued. The, Native minister promised that the ra,oney vote for the expences of the Conference should be the subject of a separate bill, aud that then th.e whole subject would be open for consideration. ISThe alteration proposed by Mr. Sewell was agreed to.

IV.—-/‘ That the Native districts Regulation act, 1858, is a measure framed in practical accordance with the principles above laid down, and that no further legislation is required to supply the present wants of the Native, people in the way of local legislation.” The Native minister proposed to omit this resolution, but Mr. Sewell moved, as an amendment,—That in. order to give practical operation to the Native districts Regulation act, 1858, it is expedient that, the Natives should be convened in public meetings in districts to he brought under the operation of such act, in such manner as the Governor may see fit; and that such meetings, should be constituted in such manner -as the Governor may third? fit, and should have the power of recoup mending to the Governor sugh regulations foy the management of. the Native affairs of the district as to them may seem fit; and the house will be ready by act to vest in the (?overnor the requisite powers of convening and constituting such'meetings.”

After a long and animated discussion, Mr. Sewell’s amendment was carried by 14 to 11. . V.—“ That the .house approve of. the division of the purely iVative territory into districts under the before mentioned- act; and of the appointment of one or more chiefs in each district as representatives' and agents of the government.”

This resolution was. agreed to, with some verbal alterations, and with the substitution of the words “as organs for communication with the government,” for the words. “as representatives,” #c.

Vl.—This resolution was withdrawn at the request of the Native minister.

- VII.-r-“ That the. gradual extinguishment or commutation of the Native territorial rights of the Maories, consistent with thejecognized obligations of the Crown, and on principles adapted to secure the permanent well being of the Natives, is essential to the peace and .prosperity of the. colony, and to the further, pro-, gress of, the Native.race itself,” Mr. Sewell moved the omission of this resolution with a view to insert, the following, ‘‘•That the,house recognizes in. the fullest.extent the territorial rights of. the. Natives, whether chiefs, or people, as guaranteed; by the treaty of Waitangi. This amendment \vas adopted. * , . . . The. committee was. proceeding with tlje Bth resolution, when the chairman reported progress, and. the house adjourned to STues- '

House of Representatives.

After the debate on the first reading of the Native Offenders bill was concluded on the 7th August, and some notices of motion had been made—, Mr. Carleton moved for a committee of inquiry into the circumstances which led to the Taranaki war, and said, that the debate on the Native Offenders bill had already caused a discussion of this question. He thought Dr. 'Featherston’s arguments had not ' been answered; but that gentleman had rather shown the strength of his own case than the weakness of the government’s, : probably because so much ground could not be gone over in one speech. The lion, member then proceeded to comment on the government statement contained in the printed papers laid on the table of the’ house, showing that some of the statements were erroneous. With reference to the declaration of the Governor, that “ he will not allow land to be bought the title to which is disputed,” he said the discussion of the question in that house showed that there was reason for expecting that the purchase of the Waitara land would be disputed. The government had selected their own case ; and while he admitted that interference was absolutely necessary to put a stop to feuds among the natives themselves, which government had hitherto shamefully allowed to go‘ on, he thought it unfortunate that the first case they took in hand was a question as to land, respect ing which the Natives were particularly sensitive. The points lie' desired inquiry into were the following—what investigation of the claim had been made ; what reply had been given to W. Kingi’s letter to the Governor claiming a tribal right; whether it was true that King had asked permission from Taraati Aaru to build a pa on the south side of the river; whether Patukakariki spoke at' the meeting of 12th March,' and what -he said; whether the boundaries set forth in the document read by 1 Mr. Parris’ to the natives on the 4th Dec. 1859; corresponded with the lines of the sur* vey ;. whke; and how the suiwey was interrupted; how far. King is connected with the Waikato land league ; what rank King : held in lus tiibe ;" whether various- translations 1 from Maori into -Ebglish ~ arid English * into -Maori were accurate. He thought there-was reason for inquiry ;’ and if the; Government hacVacted unjustly-let ‘tile bone- of'ddntcntioii- be'giveir

up, although Ivingi’s -forcible subject ion as a rebel might, be proceeded with. ‘Mr. Fox seconded (be motion pro jorma.

Mr. Sewell (Ohrislchurch) had no objection to a committee of inquiry, but not now, not. till IGng had laid down his arms. Mr. Forsaith • (Auckland city) doubted, the capability of wisdom of men who recommended violent measures, and considered the motion in its present form impracticable. Mr. Fitzherbert (Hutt) thought inquiry was necessary, and 'had hoped the government would appoint' a commissiom • H was the opinion of some of the most loyal natives that the government had a bad case. Apart from the justice of the case, it was inexpedient to incur the great expence of war. unless all other means failed. He called on the government for a statement of its policy. Mr. Williamson (Pensioner Settlements) said, that if the inquiry of the committee would satisfy the minds of the natives he would not object to it; but he did not think it would satisfy them. The government had gone: too hastily into a war,; but he believed they had used every precaution in satisfying themselves that their case was good. Great praise was due to Mr. McLean for his care in investigating, every case, and for his explanations at the Waikato meeting, which had determined many of the natives against going to Taranaki.

Mr. Fox (Wanganui) said, that if he voted for the-motion it was on the distinct understanding that he neither presumed on the right of King nor Teira. He should not form his opinion on the ipse dixit of the Governor. If they had the committee they would be able to investigate the matter thoroughly. Mr. J. C. Richmond (Omata district) would be glad of the appointment of a committee of investigation, but he feared the house would never find out the latent cause of the quarrel. Mr. Heale (Auckland suburbs) objected to the inquiry, as something might turn up in it to strengthen the enemy’s hands. Mr. Dillon .Bell (Wallace county) differed from Mr. Richmond in the opinion that a contest must have come sooner or later. He would vote for the motion.

On the motion of 2V/r. Fitzgerald the debate was adjourned.

Wednesday, August 8.

the question as to the expences of the war, and the explanation with Mr. Sewell as to his evidence regarding the £500,000 loan, both mentioned in our last,

Mr. Richmond rose to make a short statement to the house, respecting certain propositions on the subject of the civil government of the natives, to be submitted to the house by the government. He referred to Mr. McLean’s opinion that, “in the present state of the colony the natives can only be governed through themselves.” The ministry had always recognized this principle ; but various modifications of detail in the policy of 1858 were necessary, and the present crisis made it necessary that these changes he immediate. The holding of the iVative conference was t herefore resolved on, and also the repetition of this meeting next year, when it will have to consider and determine if such periodical meetings shall be held regularly, and to answer several important propositions made by the Governor to the present meeting; sucli as those- respecting the ascertainment of tribal title; the ultimate individualization of native title; and the constitution of tribunals for the settlement of disputes between the natives themselves on the subject of their territorial rights. The ministry proposed to divide the whole colony into districts, under the Native districts Regulation act, and to appoint in each one chief- as the medium of communication with the government, who shall receive a good salary, and' do the work of the present assessors ; ultimately, a magistrate may be appointed in each district. To obviate the complaint of -the natives that they are not represented in the government, the ministry suggest, that when any legislation affecting the natives is before the house, native witnesses should give evidence. The practice would be a-preparation for Maories taking their place in the assembly. As the natives desire union, these measures would, to a certain extent, secure a real union ; and they are strictly in accordance with those views the government has always expressed, and with the necessity of the case, which requires a simple machinery. Then, with regard to the extinction of Native title, the great difficulty in purchasing land has arisen from a distrust of the Pakeba and of his intentions. This will be removed by sucli measures. But in the meantime no legislation could be proposed on the subject, as it was under the consideration of the Imperial authorities, who seemed to find it a hard nut to crack. 7’he lion, member then moved, that the subject of the extinguishment of Native title be referred to a select committee, or if the house preferred it, to a committee of the whole house. « On the debate on Mr. Carleton’s motion being resumed — Mr. Fitzgerald moved as an amendment, “ That it appears expedient to institute some inquiry into the circumstances which led to the Taranaki war, especially by taking evidence at the bar of the house of some gentlemen how in Auckland, -whose opinions it may be l desirable to record; It should be conducted by a committee of the whole bouse, -who shall take such evidence as: they shall think fit, with power to examine-papers and records. • - ‘ ! ,

r Mr. ’ Fox 1 Seconded tire amendment pro forma. • v • l -- :: - 11 ; ; Dr. -Monro thought, : ■ if: any one. was .to blame, it was: Sir. George Grey, who should have fixed the boundaries of Provinces in such a way that property could be -deliucd. The

present Governor was not to Maine for not fixing - boundaries to Native districts. lie deprecated further inquiry, because, after hnv-. ing waded through every document connected with the case, he had come to the conclusion that the purchase of the Governor was a per-, fectly jvist and good one. lie believed the parsimony of the Imperial government at the commencement of the colony hath depreciated it in the eyes, of the Natives, and -thereby i brought on this rebellion, which must- now be put down by the strong hand. Believing that the Governor had done what he considered his duty, he would give him his support. Mr. Brown (Christchurch) believed the motion would elicit truth, and such an investigation was wished .for by the colony, at large. ' Mr. Sewelf (Christchurch),' would vote against further inquiry, because,, the proper time for inquiry was after the subjugation of the rebels. The inquiry could not now- be prosecuted successfully in the absence and present position of VV. King. 2/he sinews of war would no doubt be supplied by the Home Government.

Mr. Stafford—not exactly. Mr. Sewell—hoped so; proceeded- to comment on W. King’s letters ; and concluded by stating that Archdeacon ITadfield would appear cheerfully at the bar of the house, and lie would rejoice to hear him exculpated. . Mr. liichmond was convinced no committee would prevent the war. He was quite prepared to vindicate his constituency against the charges made against them by the lion, member for Wanganui based on the memorial from the Provincial. Council of. Taranaki. That memorial was penned when armed Natives were marching through the town in defiance of the Governor’s authority. -Why should the inhabitants of Taranaki not be allowed to occupy some of the waste lands of the Province?

Mr. Daldy (Auckland city) believed that all the present evils . would have been avoided if the Governor had consulted that house before proclaiming martial law. He had chosen the most unfavourable season of the year for carrying on hostilities. He had begun the war without sufficient preparation What were the duties of the pensioners settled here for seven years ? The Governor had not used means to become acquainted with the Maori. At first lie sought for reliable information; and lie (Mr. Daldy) suggested to lnm-a strict inquiry into Native affairs. What had lie done ? There was a want of confidence everywhere between Native and European. He trusted that a full inquiry would be granted into the causes of the war.

. The Colonial Treasurer said, that his Excellency’s researches, publicly and privately, were known to every one. As a Native minister he himself had purposely abstained from interfering in the present arrangement. .Mr. Dillon Bell (Wallace county) said, that lion, members had a right to criticize the Governor’s proceedings in native affairs, liis Excellency had always acted most fairly with the Assembly both in respect to Native and general colonial affairs. The present outcry against the Governor in respect to the Taranaki war arose entirely from the past opera tions not.being successful. It was,the way of the world.

Mr. Dahly sai<l, that his opinions were tLc result of years of experience. ; Mr. Brandon (/Wellington) was in'favour of an inquiry, and would like to see it go further than proposed—into the cause of the dissatisfaction existing among the Natives generally. Without further information they could neither vote money nor give advice.

Mr. Gillies (Dunedin) thought no good would result from the inquiry, and would vote against it..

Colonel Haul tain (Auckland) thought the inquiry should be granted. He believed war between the two races inevitable.. He defended Colonel Gold from Mr. .Richmond’s charges, and referred to the special instructions sent as to the conduct ,of the war.

Mr. Stafford said, the only instructions forwarded with the concurrence of ministers was, that no offensive operations should be undertaken against Wi Kingi whilst he continued on his own land.

Mr. Sewell moved, as an amendment on the one before the house, that Archdeacon //adfield and Mr. McLean should be examined before the bar of the house.

After about two hours’ desultory debating—

Mr. Carleton rose to reply, and said, that he could not go over all the ground which had been traversed by speakers on the opposite side. It had been shown, in the course of the debate, that the war had arisen by an alteration in the old land purchase system; that the question of King’s or Taylor’s title was immaterial, as there were many other owners of the land whose sanction to its sale had not been obtained ; that King had asserted a claim to the land ; that the Government investigations had been confined to Mr. Parris’s inquiry; that the minister for Native affairs had admitted himself out of court, that Patukakariki, Taylor’s own hapu, who was in arms against us, might have laud within the surveyed block; that the two reasons assigned, by Government for making, war—-die interruption of the survey, and the danger in refusing to buy the laud—were untenable ; for the act of. survey was, according to Maori ideas, a format taking possession, and the Government had not tried to show that there would have ..been danger, ip declining the .purchase. The various amendments and the motion were then put to the house, and Mr. Sewell’s amend,nient was carried.; . , ; -

I’niDAYj August 10. . Present, the .Speaker and 35 members. . After a vote of thanks had been passed to

the Government of Victoria for the prom pt and valuable aid afforded by their despatching' the Victoria to New. Zealand, and a vote of ■ilffilOO, towards the expences. of next year’s Native' Conference, Mr. Richmond moved,That, this house is of opinion that all bills' relating to JEcclesiustical trusts should be considered and dealt with as public bills, and trusts that the Legislative Council may concur in that opinion.” The motion was negatived with the,: consent of ministers.

My. Sewell (Christchurch) rose to move the following resolutions :

“ 2 T hat whilst this house concurs heartily in his Excellency’s declared {intention to repress by arms the present Native insurrection, till the complete * re-establishment - of the Queen’s authority, it is necessary to devise measures for the better ! management of, Na~. tive affairs, and .that,,,with, tins view-the house do resolve itself into Committee: to consider, the following.resolutions :

“-I..That the present system of manager ment of Native affairs..is unsatisfactory, “ 2..That it is expedient’ by act of'theAssembly (to be reserved for : the, .Queen’s, assent) ,to constitute a Board of Council, to bo a Council of Advice to the Governor in management of Native affairs; such Board of* Council to be nominated by the Crown, but one member thereof to be a Responsible minister ; and any member thereof to be removable iipon address of both houses of the Legisla-. ture.

“ 8. 7’hat it is the. imperative, duty of the Legislature, with the - Queen’s assent, to pro-., vide without delay a system of : Government ; for the Natives, in Native districts, applicableto their circumstances—such system to be ■ subordinate to the authority of the. Crown and . the General Assembly—as nearly, as maybe in harmony witn the ordinary institutions, of the colony, and framed with a view to thefusion of both races under an uniform system , of Government.

“ •4. That an act should he passed (to he - reserved for the Queen’s assent) to enable the Governor to summon in such manner and ac such periods as he shall think.(U, such persons of the Native race as he may'think; fit,.not exceeding in number, to constitute, under the'guidance of properly qualified persons, a "General- Native Councilsuch General Native Council to have a legislative character, and to have the power of originating measures relating to the Native, race; . such measures to be submitted to and perfected ' by acts of the General Assembly. “5. That power be given to the Governor to constitute in such manner as lie shall think fit such subordinate Councils and Assembles., of persons of the Native race in Native districts for the purpose of managing:;' affairs Affecting, the Natives in such districts; such Councils to be invested—under the guidance of properly qualified persons—with such limited powers of government, legislative and executive, in such Districts over persons of the Native race, as may be defined by acts off, the Assembly. " ‘ “ (5. That the present unsettled state of tho colony in great measure arises from the undefined nature of the' territorial' rights' of the Natives, and that it is expedient .without de-lay-for the Government to take measures, in cJ-jperatiou with the Natives themselves, forsettling and defining, as far as possible, their territorial rights, inter se; and that an adequate sum ought to be placed on the estimates for defraying the expenses connected therewith. . : ■

“ 7. That the present mode of acquiring Zands from the Natives, for the purpose of colonization, is unsatisfactory. “8. That this House recognizes in the fullest extent the territorial rights of the Natives, whether chiefs or people, as guaranteed by the treaty of Waitangi. ; ' * “ 9. That-the proper object of the Government, in reference to lauds held by the Natives, ought to be to reconcile the progress of colonization with such just rights of the Na-

tives., fe - : • ' “ 10. 7’hat all active operations for the purpose of acquiring Land on the part of'the Land Purchase Department ought to be suspended. ' “ 11. That measures ought to'be framed for the consideration of this house for effecting, with the assent of the Natives themselves, the following objects:— ! . “ (a.) The individualization of Native title,, and the issue of Crown Grants, to Native Proprietors in districts over which British law is in operation, or to which it may be extended ; such Crown Grants to be to a limited but adequate extent, and under such conditions, for the benefit of the , Native Proprieto: s as may be defined by act of the Assembly,. so as practically to confer on them . the rights of absolute ownership; and that provision should be made in such measures for regulating tlio devolution,,, descent, and transmission of lands so granted. “ (b) As to the surplus of their lands,-—To, provide a proper system, in concert with the. iVatives themselves, Lor the sale and manage-., nient thereof, in such manner as. shall best promote the objects of colonization, consistently - with the ' interests aiid advancement of the. Native race. The proceeds of all Laild Fund 'thence..accruing, after reimbursement of all charges andexpences, and a proportionate contribution to any general charges of Government; to be administered by the Governor, in concert with the Natives themselves, for tho improvement of the districts wherein arising, and for the social advancement of the Native. race therein. , ... „ . “12. That .the Governor shall be authorized by act of the Assembly to raise by loan a ami ii'ji. exceeding , to be. ’applied tiR.

wards the. furtherance of such last mentioned objects.” Mr. Sewell addressed the house for four hours in support of the motion. Mr. C. if. Brown (Christchurch) seconded it; and the house adjourned till

Tuesday, August 14.

Two messages from his Excellency were received ; the first expressed his Excellency's gratification that the house had acceded to his request, “ that there should be a future annual conference of the Natives, the next to he held before the expiration of the year 1861, with suitable provision for itthe second forwarded to the house correspondence relative to the present war, in compliance with the motion of Dr. Monro of last /f'eduesduy.

This message with its enclosures was, on the motion of the Colonial Secretary, ordered to be printed. Messrs. Fox, Daldy, and Sewell presented petitions from private individuals, which were received.

The house went into committee on the second reading of the Private Bills Evidence bill, which passed without amendment. Ihe Colonial Secretary moved, “ That the house do resolve itself into committee for the examination of the Venerable Archdeacon Hadfield and Mr. McLean, which was thereupon proceeded with. Pending the publication of the examination by the government, the Auckland newspapers have not thought proper to make it. public. The following precis of Mr. McLean’s exam'iution is taken from a report of it given by the New Zealander. There is a want of particularity about the dates of some of the occurrences which makes the report less valuable than it would otherwise be.

Mr. McLean first went into a history of the position of the land prior to and at the establishment of the New Plymouth settlement, showing that the right to the land was then vested by conquest in the Waikato tribe, who allowed the Ngutiawa, as they were from time to time released from slavery, to occupy the land, and latterly gave them a right to it. jffte r the purchase of Taranaki, claims were put ip from all parts of the island, many of them of a very frivolous nature, and Sir Geo. Grey in 1847 made certain propositions to the natives for the settlement of these claims, although what action was taken on these pro* positions Mr. McLean seems not to have stated. The purchase of the disputed 600 acres was proceeded with in the same way as previous purchases had been made at Taranaki, namely, acquiring the land from the different clans or subdivisions of clans which came in from time to time to offer it. No haste was used, but ample time was given to all parties to put in their claims. The sale of any land soon becomes known from one end of the country to the other ; but in tlii3 case notice was given at the time of the purchase to such absentee claimants as were known to have a right to the soil. In March 1859 Mr. McLean invited the natives at Taranaki, to state their claims, and then went over to Queen Charlotte’s Sound, where he gave the same invitation, and got the consent of the principally interested parties there to the sale. Thence he went to Wellington, and notified his intention to purchase to the natives there, who also gave their consent. It had been recently said, that numerous additional claimants had started up in the south ; but his conviction was, that those claims had been manufactured, and could not be established. Certainly, one man had told him that his grandfather had lived a short time on the land, and therefore he expected compensation. Another had told, him that he had been wounded in one of the fights there, und therefore ought to have some consideration. This would be found to be the nature of these claims if they were inquired into, and *it was clearly the duty of the Governor to resist them. , One native indeed at Waitara (Patukakariki) might have a claim to a small portion of the block, but he had never asserted it. He had been a long time investigating before he could make up his mind that the purchase was quite satisfactory. But he believed that most of this difficulty had arisen with the Anti-land-selling league, of which he had heard first at Otaki, and which was formally inaugurated at a general meeting held at Manawapo, in the Ngatiruanui country, seven years ago; and since then the settlement at Taranaki had been in a very perilous position. 3n his absence Mr. Parris had conducted the negociation, and in him he had implicit reliance. He regretted to hear so excellent an officer stigmatised as Mr. Parris had been.

Wednesday, August 15

Mr. Bell presented a petition from W. A. D. Hamilton, for a patent fpr improvements made by him in the manufacture of draining pipes, &c. The petition was received and referred to a joint committee of both houses. Mr. Bell moved that the bill to enable the Governor to grant a patent to G. A. Purchas and J. Kinnis for thejpreparationofPhormium Tenant be referred to a select committee. The motion seconded by Mr. Fox was carried. Mr. Bell moved that the resolution of the House as to Mr. Sewell passed oh the Bth instant, be transmitted to His Excellecny the Governor, with a request that His Excellency will be pleased to forward it to H.M. Secretary of State for the Colonies. The motion was carried.

Mr, Fox moved that the petition of Messrs. Yates and Davis of Kawhia, relative to their being fined for selling firearms to the natives be printed. Agreed to, Mr. Fox moved for a return of all arms, ammunition, and military stores or accoutrements, which had been exported or sent away from New Zealand since tho Ist of January,

1859, specifying the description of . the same, the date when exported, and where to. He said that statements had been circulated by and through the papers to the effect that large quantities of arms had beeii supplied to the natives, also that a large number of arms had been exported: such reports lmd bpen sent to the Home Government: while large bodies of the militia remained unarmed. Where the lion, member lived they were for two or three months ignorant of the breaking out of the war, and they might have been massacred in their beds, for what they knew at the time, and for any defence they could have offered, except in cases where they had piivate firearms. In his district King’s relations lmd lived for a long period. At last 200 of the old regulation muskets were supplied to them, by the White Swan, —only 200 stand of arms, available for that district! If such exportation existed, in the face of the native disaffection, a very serious responsibility rested on that person or those persons, whoever he or they might he, who permitted it. Mr. Stafford explained that the fireuams were sent home without his knowledge or that of His Excellency. He entirely agreed with Mr. Fox on the necessity of an ample supply of arms. He thought that if the war spread it would reach Wanganui first, and had on his own responsibly sent all the muskets in the depot, except 60 to Wanganui and Wellington. They had lately received 400 rifles from Sydney, of which 100 had been sent to Wellington and 100 to Wanganui. In July 1859, orders had been sent for 1000, ami more recently 3000, but none had been sent. He seconded the motion which was agreed to.

Mr. Daldy moved -that the petition of John Ilardy be referred to the Committee on Private Grievances. Agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Jollie (Cheviot County) the Lyttleton and Christchurch Railway Bill was referred to a select committee, consisting of the Hon. Mr. Stafford, Mr. Henderson, Mr. Fox, Dr. Campbell, and Mr. Gillies.

Messrs, Ward, Daldy and King (the last chairman) were appointed by balLt the Audit Committee. The Piivate Bill Grievance Bill was read a third time and reported to the Legislatve Council as passed without amendment.

The del ate on Mr. Sewell’s motion was then resumed. The Hon. Mr. .Richmond rose to move an amendment. He characterized Mr. Sewell’s resolutions as altogether theoi edeal—a glorious cloud, ca tie, wilderness of projects, engendered by a love of novelty, not creditable to the mover, and not suitable to the present c tndition of the maories, who were altogether unable to carry out any measures which they themselves might originate or wliioh might be suggested to them by others. He desired social orga. ization however, and this might be secured to them by the operation of the Native Districts Regulation 1858. The ministry proposed to divide the country iuto districts and appoint one chief in each district in accordance with that act. The hon member (Mr. Sewell) had said that ministerial measures were a failure, but during the last two years there had been no fair opportunity for carrying them out. He had also found fault with the manner in which government had dealt with the land question. As to the native title it appeared that, play high or low, the ministers could not please him: then as to the registry of tribal titles, and the issue of certificates their entry on the government books would enable the natives to obtain copies of these certificates more easily. What they wanted most was to inspire confidence, and they were already beginning to reap the fruits of the Kohimarama conference. The natives of the Bay of Plenty now believed that they were viewed as parties with the Pakeha ; and a large block of 30,000 acres had been purchased that very day, while a much larger tract was under offer to them by the natives on the Thames. He concluded by moving as an amendment the series of resolutions which will be found in another column when the discussion on them is reported. Mr. Brown (Christchurch) was not pleased with the tone of the debate. The original motion contained all that could be desired.

Mr. Z>aldy (Auckland City) would reserve his opinions till the discussion in committee came on.

Mr. Jleale (Auckland suburbs) proposed the addition to the amendment of the following four resolutions which he thought necessary to the clear understanding of the measure, and which might form a preamble to it.

The resolutions were then read, as follows:

lstly. That by the express stipulations of the 7'reaty of Waitangi the British Government became bound “ To secure to the natives of New Zealand the enjoyment of peace and good order,” and to establish a settled form of Civil Government, with a view to avert the evil consequences which must result from the absence of necessary laws and institutions I alike to the native population, and to her Majesty’s subjects.” 2ndly That the failure or neglect of the British Government to carry out the duties which it then undertook has left the native population of these islands in a condition of anarchy under which deeds of violence and bloodshed have been perpetrated—-tending fatally to lower the estimation of the British Government in the minds of the natives.

Srdly. That as the only means of escape from this intolerable anarchy, the natives have been driven to attempt to organise themselves independently of the British Government under a Native King—and have in many parts of the island taken up a position iiulcpcndeut of aud consequently hostile to the

Colonial Government—which has led to the disastrous war at Taranaki and to a condition of estrangement throughout the greater part of .the north island which seriously threatens the safety of the colony, and still more the ultimate interests of the Maori race.

4thly. That the British Government is bound by every principle of justice and humanity to afford all necessary aid to carry out its own express engagements to govern and protect the native race and to relieve the colony from the suffering and distress into which it lias been plunged by this solemn duty having been deferred. The lion. Mr. We Id (Wairau) thought that if some of Mr. Sewell’s propositions were clearer and more definite they might not be objectionable; but he wished to express his dissent from the scheme. Especially lie saw grave objections to the system of native boards. Mi. Sewell wished the natives to go torward ami not to recede. It might be years before boards came into operation; but the native race should be able to take part in the deliberations of the country. The hon. C. W. /Richmond jjpoke at some length in objection to native boards. The House should not give up any of the power they now held. Mr. D.„Z?ell (Wallace county) said that if the House went info committee he hoped a decision would he arrived at. They now knew what the native policy of the government was.

Mr. Gillies (Dunedin) thought there was no great difference between the two series of resolutions, though lie considered the government series to be on the whole the best. There was only one material difference. In the eleventh clause c«f Mr. A'ewell’s series, individualization of title, the issue of Crown Giants to native proprietors, and a proper system for the sale and management of land were in the Bth clause of the government series, legislation on the subject of native tit’e was postponed till an answer came from the home Government. He preferred immediate action, but he thought with the government that the natives were not ready for extended legislation. ’The last clause of the Sewell resolutions was just as objectionable, as the last clause of the ministerial resolutions was- admirable. But lie believed that no measure would benefit the natives, until the government were in a position to enforce obedience.

After the hon. Mr. Stafford had asked some questions as to the meaning of some of Mri SewclTs resolutions and Mr. Graham (Auckland Southern Divison) had expressed his approval of them. Mr.. Sewell asked leave to withdraw his resolutions which he had been induced to lay before the House by the delay of ministers in bringing forward a statement of their policy, 'The House not consenting to the withdrawal of the resolutions they were put and negativedUpon which the House adjourned.

Thursday, Jug. 16.

Mr. Stafford rose to move the following resolution-**-" That in the opinion of this house the interference of Wiremu Kingi at Waitara, and his resort to force to prevent the survey there, rendered the measures adopted by His Excellency the Governor, indispensable for the maintenance of Her Majesty’s sovereignty, and that the welfare of both races of Her Majesty’s subjects peremptorily requires a vigorous prosecution of tire' war to a successful termination/’ He said the resolution merely re-affirmed the opinions expressed iu the address io reply to Ji is Excellency’s speech in opening the session, und it was brought for* ward to give the House au opportunity of un* mistakably expressing their opinions on this important subject, as they had unfortunately been prevented from doing so by the sudden and unexpected conclusion of the debate 1 on the address. Audi an expression of opinion was the more desirable on the eve of a general election.

Mr. Brandon (Wellington) agreed with the latter part of the resolution. Great responsibility rested on His Excellency and his ministers for doing nothing to check the King movement; for not affording the natives protection to life and property by the proclamation of native districts and for the selection of the issue on which to assert the sovereignty of the Queen. He would not vote for the former part of the resolution. Air. Carleton (Bay of Islands) did riot wish to oppose but to support the government, but he could not vote for the first part of this resolution which was considerably different from that originally tabled by Mr. Stafford. This alteration had been made after the government had felt their way, and with the view of getting as much out of the house as possible. Wi Kingi was a rebel, and therefore he could have no objection to the latter part of the resolution ; but he wonld say, he did not feel at all certain as to the war being successfully terminated. He had all confidence, in the gallantry of our troops; but could 50,000 men catch a swarm of hornets in the bush ? The bon. member moved as an amendment —“ that the following words be omitted, —interference of /Firerim Kingi at fFaitara, and his resort to force to prevent the survey of land there rendered the measures adopted by His Excellency the Governor indispensable for the true maintenance of Her Majesty’s authority.” Mr. J. C. Richmond (Omata; District) still believed that though the war might have been deferred, it could. riot have’ been avoided. He cordially agreed with the motion.

Mr. D. Bell would vote for the resolution as it stood. The war was the result of & determined refusal of W. King to submit to the

proposition of the Governor made in March,, 1859 ; bnt the opponents of this resolution neither considered the policy nor the justness of this question. The Governor was quite right to ask that house for an expression of opinion on his policy. Dr. Featherston said he had no hesitation in publicly declaring, that no doubt existed in his mind as to the gross injustice which had been committed by the partiality with which enquiry had been carried on ; his conviction was that His Excellency had been more sinned against than sinning ; great blame rested on those who advised him. He believed no member of the house entertained any other opinion than that the Queen’s supremacy must be maintained. But the responsibility of this war lay with His Excellency. Th e colony had not been permitted to have a voice in it and the House mu9t take care that they did not make the colony responsible either for the expences or the consequences. Members are beginning to have a perception of the true character of the struggle ; a great change is coming over the public mind in regard to it. What prospect was there of successful termination to the war ? In every encounter we had had with the nativessince the colonization of the island we had been' worsted. In former wars the natives reeogcognized the justice of our claims; but at present the sympathies of the majority were with W. King, and every day he was receiving fresh accessions to his forces from the whole island. With 3000 men in arms at Taranaki the whole province has been desolated ; and it is doubtful if Taranaki will be much longer tenable. Any military man will tell you that 10,000 men would not protect the towns of Auckland, Wellington, Wanganui, and Napier—that 20,000, aye, or 30,000 men would not enable you to prevent the utter destruction of ail the property in the island, //is .Excellency, after having first talked of a blockhouse at JPaitara with 20 men, has asked for 2000, then 3000, lastly 5000 men. Could even these do more than bold a few military posts ? But there is no likelihood of the request being complied with. When her Majesty’s government learn the facts of the present case—when they learn that the war originated in a grudge entertained by Teira against his chief—that because a native girl jilted Teira’s brother and married W. Kingi’s son, Teira swore that he would have his revenge-—that, knowing that W. King had given a solemn pledge to his father not to sell Waitara, but to keep it for an inheritance for the Ngatiawas, Teira resolved to grariy his revenge by selling W, aitara to the government —when they know that of the 600 acres offered by Teira and purchased by the government only a small portion really belonged to Teira—that the greatest portion is owned by natives who have either protested against the sale or have never been consulted in the matter—that no investigation worthy of the name had ever been instituted into «their claims—when the Home government learn these facts, their answer will no doubt be, that those who have been guilty, while acting under her Majesty’s name, of so great a wrong —who have plunged the country into such a war—are no longer worthy of her Majesty’s confidence, and instead of reinforcements her Majesty’s government will send out peremptory instructions to bring the war to a close, and prevent auy further shedding of blood in so unjust a cause. Such being his belief, he could not assent to the resolution. Oh the contrary, he held it to be the duty of the house—a duty it owed to the Imperial government, to his Excellency (who had been grossly deceived), and especially to the whole body, of colonists—to express its regret that his Excellency has felt it incumbent on him to have recoursse to arms, and at the same time its. earnest hope that his Excellency may soon be enabled to bring the war to a termination.

The Native minister (Mr, Richmond) still held his conviction that a collision between the two races was inevitable, and approved of the choice of Taranaki as the place where the issue should be tried, inasmuch as that district exhibited the spirit of insubordination which gave part of its force to the king, movement, and was yet so isolated, from the centre of that movement, as to make it likely that the prestige of the British iiame : might be maintained, or rather established there, without any other part of the island being involved in the contest. He defended himself against the charge of having exerted a sinister influence on his Excellency in bringing on this war. Mr. Fox seriously hoped that the Native minister would be able to, prove that the war was not owing” to him aiid his constituents. Such a report was generally believed. The nature of the case was suspicious. For no action had been taken in the case of acts of aggression on the part of the natives, respecting the injustice of whiph there, could be no dispute—such for instance as several that have lately occurred at Wairarapa; but when a doubtful case of the same kind occurred at Taranaki it was at once taken up. It had been said that King had declined: to meet his Excellency; but it must be remembered that was after the proclamation of martial law. Astonishment had . been expressed at any one who considered the war unjust voting for its continuance; but the war was a fact, and there was no prospect of safety but in King being compelled to lay down, his arms, Mr. Weld (Wairau) said, that it had struck him as remarkable,; that while a large meeting of native chiefs had, with only the dissent of three near relatives, of King, expressed its' approval of the Governor’s monduct at Taranaki, that house should have so much difficulty in coming to a conclusion on the subject. ' It is said there arc outstanding unsatisfied claims;

if so, let them be put in and proved, and justice would be done. It was remarkable that the sufferers at 7'aranaki should approve of the prosecution of the war, and it was only intelligible on the recollection that they lmd been living in perpetual uncertainty and insecurity. Mr. Fitzhcrbert (Hutt district) considered the resolution a trap. That house and the people of the country had had nothing to do with the war, and he would not endorse it. They had no estimates laid before them, either of what had been already spent, or of what might be required. The government should have brought forward these. It would not be forgotten that the Minister for Native affairg was a representative of Taranaki. 7’he hon. member then went into the cases of aggression to "which Mr. Fox had referred, and concluded by saying, that the ministry would never be able to justify themselves to the public (whether British or colonial) for having first armed the Maori by removing the restrictions on the purchase of arms, then disarmed the settlers by permitting the exportation of arms, and then surprising the settlers one fine morning in February by a proclamation of martial law. Mr. Jollie (Cheviot county) not being well acquainted with the subject had reserved his opiniop till he had heard both sides, and now hfc-wbuld conscientiously vote for the resolution.

Mr. Gillies (Dunedin) belonged to a part of the colony that might have to pay a large portion of the cost of the war, but he would endorse the statement in the resolution with perfect confidence that his constituents would approve of his vote. But lie did not thereby agree to the colony paying the expence. It was an Imperial war, and must be paid for by the Imperial government. He felt that it was a duty to vindicate the Governor, as he was the best the colon) had as yet had, having, taken a position to maintain' the authority of the British Crown and to stand by the colonists.

Dr. Monro (JFaimea district) would be against carrying on the war if he thought it unjust; but- a 3 he was perfectly satisfied that the ground was just, and that the result would leave the two races in a better state than before, lie would vote for its prosecution. Mr. Ward (Lyttelton) said, that the resolution was the verdict of the hosue on the evidence before them, and it was time that such a verdict was given. Inquiry had been granted on the ground that Kingi had asserted a claim. That claim must either be a part ownership in the land, or a right as a chief to forbid the sale, v/rchdeacon Hadfield had hot attempted to prove the former, but he had made a remarkable admission regarding it, in saying, that he had believed Kingi’s rights overlooked in the purchase, until lie found that whatever laud King! had a claim to was specially reserved in the deed of cession. And as to the other point, lie gathered from the Archdeacon’s evidence that Kingi had no status by birth as a chief of the hapu from whom the block had been purchased, and that he was stretching his mana unwarrantably in forbidding the sale. The governor had acted in furtherance of the true interests of both races, and he should vote for the resolution.

Mr. Daldy (Auckland city) objected to the word “ indispensable.” He was sure neither the governor nor government had had any idea of going to war, or -why not have made provision for it ? No doubt they believed they had just grounds for the war, but they had rushed into it unnecessarily, and without due preparation.

Mr. Carter (Wairarapa) gave some statistical details as to the progress of population and wealth in the colony during the last ten years, to show how much more important this war was than the last. In the Wellington Council he had voted for a vigorous prosecution of the war, on the supposition that Wi Kingi had no right to interfere—-but he had now his doubts on that point; that the government were prepai edfor war—-but such it now appeared was not the case; and that the war would be prosecuted with energy and judgment—but it had been completely mismanaged. The militia expences, &c. must have already cost ,£20,000; was the colony to pay for this? The house ought to know if the government intended to put down the king movementexecute the Omata murderers—and make the rebel natives pay the expences of the war in land. That was desirable, but* the ministry must show the feasibility of their scheme-if they intended doing so. He defended Sir George Grey, and complained of government’s neglect of the Wairarapa district in respect to the administration of the law.

Mr. Stafford defended his colleague, Mr. Richmond, who, When the petition'from the Provincial Council of Taranaki, referred to by Mr. Fox, came up, objected to its prayer. In the course taken by the government at Taranaki they were solely actuated by a desire to stop the native internecine feuds. The proclamation of martial law only referred to, Europeans. The government had not prepared for war by arming and drilling the population, for that would haye made war certain, and they knew that if war did come they could