The Waka Maori. WELLINGTON, TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1874. THE PARLIAMENT.

Waka Maori, Volume 10, Issue 17, 25 August 1874, Page 208

The Waka Maori. WELLINGTON, TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1874. THE PARLIAMENT.

Wednesday, 29th July, 1874. Mr. W. Kelly moved, "That all reports upon the provisions and working of 'The Native Lands Act, 1873,' by the Native Lands Court Judges, be laid on the table, for the purpose of being referred to the Committee on Native Affairs." Mr. McLean said he had always been most willing to afford every information to .the House, and to supply papers in every instance in which he could do so, but he failed to see that any advantage would be derived from the production of the papers referred to in the motion of the honorable member. He felt confident that no result would flow from producing them, and therefore it would be unnecessary to give the Native Affairs Committee the trouble of looking into them. It was his intention to bring in a Bill, on Tuesday nest, to amend the Native Lands Act in

certain directions, and that being the case, he believed all the difficulties complained of with reference to portions of the Act would thus be disposed of. The main object of the Act of last session had been to remove in the first instance, by careful preliminary inquiry, all difficulties connected with disputed title before passing the land through the Court, as under the old Act it had been found that numerous complications arose after the land had passed the Court. The Government being about to bring in an- amendment Bill, upon which they would be glad to take the advice of the Native Affairs Committee, he hoped that the honorable member would not press his motion. Mr. Bttckland would suggest to the Native Minister whether it would not be well to consider the advisability of bringing down a measure to repeal altogether the Native Lands Act of last session. It contained provisions which, if adhered to, would prevent the sale of land being made by Natives either to the Government or to private individuals. He was sorry the Government had not acceded to the request of the Committee ; but if their object was attained by introducing a Bill which would remedy the grosser evils existing at the present time, perhaps the Committee would be satisfied. He could tell the Native Minister that there was a great deal of dissatisfaction existing among the Natives in the north of Auckland. Mr. Taiaeoa approved of the motion asking that those papers required by the Committee should be produced, because the Committee had power to call for persons and papers. He thought that if what the Government proposed were agreed to, their former agreement, when the Committee was appointed, would be upset. If the Government approved of doing away altogether with the Bill passed last session, he would be satisfied. Great evils were inflicted upon the Maoris by the passing of that Act, and he said so last year. Also, with regard to the Native Reserves Act. Those Acts weighed heavily upon the Maoris. The Maoris were treated like dogs by those Acts. They should be altogether done away with, and the Maoris should be brought under the same law as the Europeans. He thought that was the correct course to pursue now. He hoped the Government would agree that those documents should be produced, in order that the Native Lands Act might be done away with altogether. The Maori members of the Executive were on the Native Affairs Committee, and approved of the motion that those documents should be produced. Mr. Katene said he had nothing to do with the opinions of the Judges. The land did not belong to those Judges: the land belonged to the Natives. It was not for the Judges to make any statement in regard to the Native lands. It was nothing to him what law was being made about the Native Lands Court. If the Government saw that there would be great trouble in connection with this Act, the best thing would be that the Native Lands Court should be done away with altogether. The Government brought in Acts for the establishment of the Native Lands Court for the benefit of the Natives, but the Maoris were sending in petitions against the Court. "Whatever faults there might be in the Native Lands Court had not been seen by the Maori members of the House, but were seen by the.Maoris at a distance, who sent in petitions. He was not able to express an opinion at present as to whether they were right or whether they were wrong in what they said in their petitions. Mr. T. B. Gillies trusted the Native Minister would reconsider what he had said in regard to this motion. He thought it would be wise to produce the

information obtained from the Judges of the Lands Court. Debate adjourned. NATIVE AFFAIRS, MIDDLE ISLAND. The adjourned debate on Mr. Taiakoa's motion, that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into "unfulfilled promises to Natives in the Middle Island," was resumed. Mr. Vogel said that the G-overnment considered the resolution was one that should not be passed If , the Natives felt that they had any grievance, they had a way of approaching the House by petition The petition could be referred to the Public Petitions Committee, or to the Native Committee appointed at the commencement of the session; but the ordinary would be to refer it to the Public Petitions Committee. If honorable members had studied the resolution, they would see that it was so worded as to ask the House to express the opinion that there were unfulfilled promises. He did not wish to express any opinion on that matter at present, but he certainly thought the House was not in a position to come to the conclusion that there were unfulfilled promises They were asked to agree to the appointment of a Committee, on the ground that there existed unfulfilled promises, and so to commit themselves to the expression of an opinion before the matter was brought before them. Without in any way desiring to shut out those who might consider themselves a<£ grieved, from the opportunity of making their grievances known to the House, the Government did not consider that there was any ground for the appointment of the Committee as at first proposed, and therefore he would vote against the motion. Mr. Macandeew quite agreed with the remarks which had fallen from the Premier, and he hoped the House would take a similar view of the matter. By passing resolutions of this kind, they were only cherishing and nursing in the minds of the Natives claims which could not possibly be fulfilled, and which had no foundation whatever in fact. He understood that the object of the resolution was to cover a claim for two million acres of land in the Middle Island; and he held that that was a claim which should be referred, not to a Select Committee of this House but to a Court of Equity. Then with regard to the constitution of the Committee, it was very suggestive that the whole of the members proposed, with one exception, were representatives of theNorthernlsland. He could not conceive that that was not the result of design on the part of some one. He hoped the House would pause before expressing any opinion on the subject. He might state that the terms of the deed of cession relating to the Middle Island had been complied with to the letter, and it would be very unwise to open up that question again. It was understood that the claim put forth in respect of the Princes Street reserve was to be a final claim. If the Superintendent and Provincial Government (of Otago) had not understood that the money then paid was to be a full settlement of all demands, they would never have agreed to pay the £s,ooo—money to which, m his opinion, the Natives were not entitled, either in law or in equity ; but they agreed to pay the money and have done with all those so-called claims.

The honorable gentleman here read a memorandum on the subject from the Superintendent of Otago, which was submitted to the Select Committee appointed, by the House in 1572, showing that there was no desire whatever on the part of" the provincial authorities to withstand any well-founded claim which might be adduced on behalf of the Maoris, and that a number of the most valuable spots of land in the province had been set aside as reserves for the Natives. Mr. Kelly urged the honorable member for the Southern Maori district to withdraw his motion, and refer the matter to the Public Petitions Committee. Mr. J. L. Gillies hoped the honorable member would consent to the withdrawal of the motion, and would pursue the course pointed out by the Premier, by bringing the matter before the Public Petitions Committee. He (Mr. Gillies) could not agree with the terms of the motion, and thought also that somo objection might be taken to the nomination of the members of the proposed Committee, seeing that they were almost all selected from members of the North Island. At the same time, he could not agree with honorable members who seemed inclined to treat the subject matter of the motion in rather a cavalier manner. He could not forget that the question had been before the Assembly year after year, and if his memory served him right, the Native Minister had stated in his place in the House, that undoubtedly the Natives of the Middle Island had claims against the Government, although he did not agree to the full extent with the claims made. If members of the Maori race were supposed to sit in the House to see that their interests were fairly attended to, he did not think that it was at all a proper course to treat the claims of that race in a cavalier manner. The objections which had been taken time after time by different Governments to these claims, were, as he understood it, that they were of an exorbitant character, and not that no claims existed. Prom what little he knew of the circumstances brought before the Committee on this subject last year, he was of opinion that claims did exist, although he could not in any degree support them to the extent which the honorable gentleman seemed desirous to claim. Mr. SnEEUAN thought the course taken by the Government was not fair to the mover of this resolution. In 1572, a Committee was appointed, on a motion couched very much in the terms of the present resolution, which was supported by the Native Minister, who expressed the opinion that there were claims on the part of the Natives of the Middle Island which should be attended to. That Committee decided that the Government ought to appoint a Commission to inquire into the matter during the recess. The Native Minister would probably recollect that a deputation from the Committee waited upon him, and told him what the report of the Committee was, and he expressed his intention of carrying it out. No Commission was, however, appointed. In the following session another Committee was appointed, of which the Native Minister was one. "With the approval of the Native Minister, a Sub-Committee of that Committee waited upon the honorable member for the Southern Maori district, to ascertain from him what amount he thought would be sufficient to meet these claims. He (Mr. Sheehan) was bound to say that the reply of the honorable gentleman was such as to put it out of the power of any reasonable person to accede to his demands. There was no doubt, however, that if a Commission had been appointed, as was promised by the Native Minister, and had held an enquiry into the matter, any decision it had come to

would have been gladly accepted by the Natives themselves. It would not do to say that there were no claims, because it was absolutely proved by official documents that claims did exist. It was undoubtedly certain that the Natives had been promised schools and hospitals. These promises were made a quarter of a century ago, and it was only within the last few years that anything had been done in the matter. He did not say that any great injustice had been done by the delay, but great evil must arise from leaving these matters open from year to year. He trusted, if the matter came before the Committee on Native Affairs, and they_ recommended that a Commission should be appointed, that the Government would carry out the recommendation during the recess. Mr. Reynolds would point out that a hospital had been provided for these Natives in 1850 by Sir George Grey. It was true that that institution no longer existed, but there were provincial hospitals and schools, which were open to the Natives on the same terms as to Europeans. He objected to the Natives been treated in any wav differently from the Europeans. Mr. Taiaeoa, in reply, said that it was well known to honorable members that the Committee of last session reported to the House, and recommended that two arbitrators should be appointed to enquire into the matter; but the Government requested that that recommendation should be withdrawn, and promised that they would take action themselves during the recess. However, nothing whatever was done. He thought the claims made bv the Maoris of the Middle Island were quite justified. This land had never been properly purchased. In Colonel Wakefield's agreement it was arranged that one acre out of every ten should be returned to the Maoris. The honorable member here read an extract, from the official documents relative to Native affairs in the South Island, for the purpose of showing that such an engagement had been entered into. He would ask honorable members whether they considered these conditions had been fulfilled. There was also a deed of sale to Mr. Kemp, in which it was stated that the cultivations were to be kept for the benefit of the Natives and their children after them; and it also stated that the Government were to' reserve certain lands for the Natives. These cultivations belonging to the Natives had been taken away, and the conditions had not been fulfilled. It was not specified what particular cultivations were to be reserved whether old ones or new ones. It simply stated that the cultivations were to be reserved ; but he thought it referred to the old cultivations. All the Maoris had got was a very small portion: the greater portion had gone into the possession of the Governmant. After that came Mr. Mantell's purchase. The Maoris then asked a large price for their land. Mr. Mantell offered the Natives £2,000 for the land at Murihiku, and promised the schools and hospitals. He also stated that the Government would look after the Natives of the Middle Island. If these deeds where submitted to a proper legal tribunal he did not think they would be considered to be valid, because in some cases the names had not been signed by the parties themselves. Eor instance, in Kemp's deed the name of Topi was appended, whereas he was not present at all. The House, he believed, did not object strongly to the proposal. The Maoris had been for a long time urging the fulfilment of these promises, but the Government had not carried them out. He had been three years in the House, and had endeavoured to obtain a settlement of the matter, but without avail. He had asked for a large sum of money in the shape

of compensation for these lands, and the members of that House got frightened at that. It should consider what was really fair to the Natives of the Middle Island, and with that view he would be conte nt to refer the matter to the Committee on Native Affairs. If something were not done, he feared the matter would give rise to a great deal of trouble in the future. With the permission of the House he would withdraw the motion. Leave refused, and motion negatived.