THE OCEAN MAILS.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 7231, 18 October 1901, Page 1

THE OCEAN MAILS.

. ~» THE GOVERNMENT -PROPOSALS. DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE. [Pei* Pkess Association-.] In the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon Sir Joseph Ward moved that the House should go into Committee of lbs Whole to consider the mail resolution. He deprecated very strongly the cry of north v. south. Anything more unfair or more calculated to prejudice th-e interests of the San Francisco service could not be imaginsd than the conduct of the Auckland Press and certain gentlemen who bad the cause of the San Francisco service at heart. He denounced a<? untrue certain statements made in an article in the Auckland " Herald "on this question. He denied that there was any understanding between the Government and others on this question, and he announced that if the resolutions in reference to 'the San Francisco service. were carried he would propose a further resolution fixing «. minimum poundage of £15,000. •Ttoe -demand of Mr Spreckels. for £26,000 from New Zealand, wag altogether too bigh, an view of the fact that, with the Australian colonies in, .the amount was only £30,000,' but the guarantee of £15,000, at a. 7s 6d rate was a fair one, and he attached no importance, to the prediction that the service would go to Queensland. He believed' that Mr Sprockets was too gwd a, business ( man to lose sigh't of the 1 advantages of itrade with this colony; r Mr Bollard : Make it £20,000. Sir Joseph Ward: -"We have never had > a single- indication that, they would accept £20,000. All our proposals have been met with ' refusal. ' Mr Massey : You have proposed £20,000 for the Vancouver service. Sir Joseph Ward said 1 that he would com* to this by and bye, but he might here inform the honourable members ttiat the change of feeling in regard, to the Vancouver service Avas due to the- excluisioa of British owned steamers from the San Francisco trade. Alternative proposals had been submil'ted for the reason that .th» mailservices should cot bs left on a loose footing. Supposing that Mr Spreckels -declined the Government proposals, which' was very improbable, did honourable members mean ; to tell Mm that they could not give effect to proposals which, would secure an •equally good, ,df not better service? Even if th* Vancouver .were established Auckland must be the port' of call, because it. was neoessary to have the fastest and shortest route, which/would be by the port of Auckland, and in the event of Mr Spreckels declining - the Government proposals Auckland would, therefore, be the terminal port for the Vancouver service. It was monstrous to suggest that the House must be' driven 1o accept the terms of Mr Spreckels, a nd to faill down and worship the San Francisco service. . Last year this - service had cost £10>803. after credit had been givem for all. postages, but under the present proposals' tlie net cost, after credit had been given for all postages, would* be £16j304, and this would «how tbat the Government was no!> practising a skimping payment for these service?. New South Wales at the same time was getting tiie- benefit of ..thte^yeWice. ..as ja. port for £2000, "because' ifc l*ad «ot"coriws into the contract, and it. received the benefit of postal union rates. Yet when tbe Now Zealand Governmeiiit asked that it . should be supported' ; in fixing 1 a good commercial : contract it - was charged with ulterior motives.- Speaking of the Vancouver service the Postmaster-General agreed that there ought to be such a service, and- that there ought to be an opportunity of developing trade, with Canada. Mails would take only oneiday longer to reach London -cr to reach Auckland on the- return voyage. The Federal service, that carried on. by fhe Peninsular and Oriental, and .Orient boats would, cost the colony £19,417. The Vancouver .service (three weekly) would cost £21,333, and the San Francisco service £16.304. The San Francisco service wan the fastest and cheapest, and it was clear to his mind that they should agree to carry it on. It was not a question for Auckland alone, but for the whole colony. It was their duty to a?k Mr Spreckels to «se Avhatever political pressure he ihaitl to secure the employment of a British-owned Heainer in this trade.' No one could take exception to, any laws the American Government might pass 'lo govern their own operations, but the exclusion of a Briin-h---owned -steamer had without doubt acted detrimentally against this service. They could net get a better passenger line between England and New Zealand. . Mr Hcrnsby : Why not ihe'diiwcb service? Sir Joseph* Ward 'replied that it was impossible to get a direct service which the passengers would use as against the San i Francisco line. In concluding, he urged vhat ibis service would maintain our connection with a great nation, an<l Uiat a splendid feeling existed between England and America. Eastern troubles might arise, and with a federated Australia close to us we could not tell what troubles might air-ise with tfoa Japanese and other ruces, ( arA wben fcbe. colony ha.& nn opportunity of J establishing at a moderate cost a service of this kind' it ought not 'to cub off its nose to spite- its face. Mr Millar said that he held that the Government had not adequately carried out tire: instructions of the Houss last yeaa- to negotiate for a Vancouver service. He contrasted the speech of the PostmasterGeneral jusifc delivered with his remarks in 1888, when he opposed the San Francisco service. A return furnished to the House this session showed how little value 'the service was to tine colony. There would never be a large passenger traffic by either the San Francisco or the Vancouver services, for the reason that the seasons did not fit in. He had heard a good deal I abou'fc patriotism, bub here the Government I was asking the country to subsidise a line j of- steamers belonging to a nation that was j the bitterest' commercial opponent of Great Britain. The House .had oeen told that j the San Francisco service was of enormous ! value to the commerce of this colony, and yet every Chamber of Commerce in New Zealand, except that ab Auckland, had passed resolutions in opposition to it. j From tbe tourist point of view the San Francisco service was of no use. From the mails poinit of view it was of little use, and from the trade point of view it was of absolutely no use. Mi- Fisher said that he was in favour of the abolition of the San Francisco service, not because he was a Wellington member, but because the service was nob advantageous to 'the people- of the colony. It was, in fact, absolutely of no benefit to the colony. He said that he saw no necessity for keeping up a fast and costly service when we had the cable facilities at present available, in fact it would be better to devote the £15*000 to the payment of a subsidy to secure a reduction of cable rates, than to pay this money to a foreign company. He was a Britisher right through and he resented the exclusion of British boats fronr the San Francisco service Mr Massey asked whether New Zealand \vas» going to increase by one week the time between the colony and the large centres of fhe world with which we did business, simply because we disapproved of the American shipping laws. He hoped that the House would do nothing of the sort. He adversely criticised the proposed Federal service, and said that instead, of it costing us £19,000 it would cost more like something between £25,000 and £30,000. jLooked at from any point u f view, the \

Sari Francisco sen-ice was by a long way the most .efficient aud fastest New Zealand could- have, and he had never heard anyone txpiees dissatisfaction at what- it cost the colony. We were getting a- better service irJin Mr Spreckels, yet we now proposed to pay less for' it. The Government proposals in regard to poundage rates were not business-like, and he urged that the subsidy of £20,000 should bs offered without any stipulation as to the employment cf a, British-owned steamer. iiv Witheford urged that this question should.be viewed on broader lines and from a more nationalistic point of view. Australia had creaited an anti-New Zealand taiiff, and this might induce New Zealand to seek .'reciprocity "with America. W'hen he appealed! to. the British, Government some time ago to subsidise an All-red Pacific mail line, he was told 1 that next to subsidising the -British flag it. was wished that the colony would subsidise the American flag, "because some day we will work together." He pointed out the many advantages attaching to the San Francisco service. Mr G' W. Russell blamed t-he Government for not (having made full enquiries concerning the Vancouver and Federal services in case the House refused to subsidise ths San Francisco line and foe considered that it meant tliat the Government had made up its mind to continue the .San Francisco &fvfce7 pfusi {sprgckels;"' ln view of' the proposal now mads to subsidise a service tliat excluded. British- vessels, he asked how much of the patriotism that certain leading politicians 'had "Mown" about during the last two years was really sincere, when it came to bedrock. He advocated the establishment of a direct mail sea-vice by way of the Cape, whereby we might develop the South African .murkefc. He admitted the speed! of the San Francisco line, bub as a representative of a farming community he objected to any subsidy being paid to a company belonging to a nation that had raised a protective barrier against us. Mr Buddo said that he was strongly opposed to any further payment being made to the San Francisco service. Our reciprocity with America must be confined to after dinner speeches. He saw no possibility of adapting the Vancouver service, to our needs. Faster steamers were required, and the question of the contract with i'he Queensland! Government must also bs con- ' sidsered 1 . If :we assisted anj r company we should assist, the company which travelled round our shores. Mr Napier said that he disapproved of tha aspersions east upon Sir Joseph • Ward by a section of the Auckland Press, and he assured/ the House that Aucklanders did not, wish to -do anything which would prove detrimental 'to Uie rest of the colony. The Auckland people supported the San Francisco service '. because it was the best and fastest. He would, be prepared to vote for a much larger subsidy if a Britk'h ship or even two Britifh ships could be ens-aged in the San Fra.neisco service. He believed that if the Government of this colony had shown sufficient energy three years ago the amending law; preventing boats which are not American from trading between Honolulu »"d San Francisco would not have been passed. V Captain Russell -said that we wanted a regular system of mails delivered in 'lie colony, and there was no doubt that :;i the absence of a Nicaratgua or P'ti'mi route the San Francisco route was quickest. A direct service via Caps K ••. . to England was practically nut of ilie qiu.;tion. .Moreover, a service by way of San Francisco would give us communication with a. greater number of people with whom we could do business than would either of the other lines. He did not agree with those who argued that we were subsidising a foreign . flag by maintaining this service. The fact was than the American people were subsidising a line of steamers to cany our mails. He said that bj- abolishing the Shu Francisco service we should deprive ourselves of an important mail service without gaining another, since whatever oor-ur-ed we would still have the Federal service •by way of .Australia, whether we subsidised it or not. We had been separated by fiscal folly from Australia, and he asked whether we were prepared to shut off our communication with America. There would be, he urged, practically no trade between New Zealand and Canada for the reason that Canada produced what we ourselves exported. Mr J-. Hutcheson. in opposing (lie San Francisco service, said that, it enabled the people on the Pacific coast of America to send to New Zealand gaol-manufactured goods, and also to send other goods at less cost than they could be produced in America, so as 1o regulate the local markets. Mr Napier interjected that tins class of goods did not come by mail s-te-miers. Mr Hutcheson, continuing, said that, if the United States would exhibit u, true spirit of reciprocity towards this colony he would not object to a much larger subsidy being paid to the San Francisco ?ervice. He urged that what was wanted was regular and frequent mails and a. reduction in cable rates. The former, he suggested, could be s obtained by arranging with the Union Company for connection with the Federal service. The Hon J. M'Gowan, in the course of a brief speech, said that he considered that the San Fraocisco service was the best the colony had ever had, as it was the cheap, est, shortest and fastest. The only argument to 'his mind «,giunst that service wus the fact that British •iwn.U were barred, bub he would not be surprised to find that

come of those who made that objection Arere standing in Ammca.n shoes. Mr Collins' said that, the indiscreet Avritings. utterances and telegrams that liad emanattd from Auckland Avere responsible for some of the opposition th-a* was being manifested toAvards the San Francisco service. There Avas a. strong feeling of resentment against the way in which the •Auckland people Avere trying to dictate to members of the House. Beyond tlie fact that Ave received r.nr letters, a. few hours or days earlier, the colonv derived no -advantage from the San Francisco- service. All the advantage was on the side of America. He favoured a subsidised service by tlip wriA^ of South Africa. Mr T. Mackenzie admitted that the San Franci?co service avh« the fastest, but denied that this AA-as s"'?h a desideratum Avhen Ave had the cabK He supported those who advocated a. reduction in the cable, rates. A fortnightly service on reliable dites Avas sufficient for otir purposes 1 . Until the United States jr.-ive us some trade cencesfions avc should find another route for our mails. Mr FoavWs strougly defended the ban Francisco service, claiming that it ■ stood superior t-> any mail ananeement thecolony hail ever had' or was likely to lave.;. ; Mr Atkinson opposed the San trancisco service, and said that the reason Avhy there Aras such a strori? feelirg against it AA-as that it implied the exclusion, of our own pecple. H"> favoured a regular direct servic?. and failing that, the Federal service. Mr Symes moved the adjournment ot the debate, which AA-as agreed, to.. The House rose at 1.35 a.m. • •_ Aceordihff to Mr Barclay, who is whonrtiii* against the San Francisco proposal, the^ddvision -will be very close. He makes the m-wnbens: ---For the .Government .33, agai-nst 31. On adjourning at 1.35 va.m., Sir Joseph Ward Avanted' to meet aeraui a't 10 but objections -were raised; amd^so it was decided not to meet till the usual hour. ■