A Descriptive Report.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5647, 17 June 1886, Page 3

A Descriptive Report.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. W_»vxti>AY, June 16. REPRESENTATION. Mr Dargaville's question only drew from, the Premier a request to wait till Tuesday, when Government would make a statement. It will, as I have already reported, be to the effect that a Bill will be introduced " providing for the appointment of a Board to adjust representation after every census. PUBLIC WORKB STATEMENT. We are to have this next week, according to the Premier, but whether early or late it was quite impossible for him to say. * EDUCATIONAL STATEMENT. The Premier is to make his annual statement on Friday evening, at half-past seven. KAIMANAWA BILL. A discussion ensued, on the motion for the Committee, which surprised some of us a little, for wo had regarded the appointment of the Committee aB a foregone conclusion. So it proved, eventually, but the opportunity was good tor ventilating several points of the subject, and was employed with due diligence. The Opposition leaders formally entered their protest against the precedent established by the. Premier's memo. "It was a bad pre-"" cedent," Major Atkinson Baid, "that of publishing statements against individuals without investigation." The Premier and Mr Ballance replied that tho Premier's memorandum was drawn up,. not to attack the reputation of individuals, but to bring out the conclusion that a rehearing was required. It waa unfortunate if the facts pressed heavily upon anyone, but the facts had been impartially stated, with a definite object. It Ib noteworthy that in this discussion the Opposition leaders were careful to explain that they did not impute error to the memo ; it was only the precedent of publication that they objected to. It was pointed out, during the discussion, that others were reflected upon by the memo besides Mr Fenton — for instance, Dr Buller ; and some members went so far as to say that Dr Buller'ocase should be investigated by the Committee ; some provision being made for that gentleman to be heard in person— or so at least thought his friends. But how this can be done with Dr Buller doing his duty as a Commissioner at the Exhibition, was not made to appear, Sir George Grey thought that Mr Fenton's case ought to be kept ee pa rate, but did not press the point. The Treasurer took theopportunity to speak to tho general question of the title given by tbe Native LandCourt — a question raised during the debate upon a Bill of his colleague's, which. was before the House the other day. Ont this point Sir J. Vogel has fears and doubt3 which he was not afraid to indicate. He warned the House to sanction nothing which would tempt people to re-open bargains. Justice, he knew and cheerfully admitted,ought to bo done, but, in his opinion, justice ought to be tempered with discretion. " Because some per<-o*-H have suffered wrongs, don't let us put it into the power of other persons to do immeasureably greater wrongs." Theae were the concluding words of hia short speech. Before coming to them, ho had described a dismal scene ho had once witnessed as a youth— a dark, dilapidated, ruined mansion he had struck iii one of hi> rambles .abroad. It seemed tho wreck of some great fire, black and uninviting. Ou asking the cause of such disaster, a few j words were enough to explain everything — "the propaity got into Chancery!" That dreadful example of decay and misery waa j the type of what the House would prepare |if heedlessly allowed titles to pe dis*>

I tor bed by tempting people to re-open their ! bargains. The Native Minister re-assured j the House on the particular question ; before it, by informing it that it was not i anybody's intention to disturb a title so much as to declare who were the proper owners. These episodes over, the motion for the appointment of the Committee passed on tiie voices. PROCEDUBH. Mr Macandrew, the "Father of the ' House," waa th_* centre and cause of a ] rather protracted struggle over the Order i Paper. Owing to his absence on a former occasion, when private member- - ' Wednesdays were absorbed into the '* Maelstrom of Colonial business,"a Bill of Mr Macandrew's •was tumbled from top to bottom of the Order Paper. Instead of No. 1, the Bill stood to-day at No. 25. The member for Port Chalmers appealed to the justice of the j House, and asked to be given a better j position on Thursday next. The Honse gave him the necessary unanimous permission to make a motion postponing the twenty-four Standing Orders before the Bill. It waa, by the way, the Public Advances On Land Bill, which Mr Ivess was recommended the other night to prefer to the measures he had in charge, on behalf of Mr Newlyn and otherß. There is, I may remark in passing, little hope that this Bill of Mr Ivess* will ever be heard of more. To return to the Father of the House and his troubles. Having got the order postponed, Mr Macandrew moved that his Bill be made a first Order of the Day for Thursday week. Sir G. Grey, who occupied the first position on that occasion with his "Law Practitioners Bill," fought for his position. "It was there on the Paper a fortnight ago," he cried. "And I was there three weeks ago ! " said Mr Macandrew. "If my memory Berves me, I was in a good position even before." "I was beforo you," retorted the undisturbed xeteran — "since the beginning of the session." A discussion ensued. One or two lawyers saw no objection to the Bill going before Sir G. Grey's measure. Mr _ryco reprimanded the member for Port Chalmers, because, having got the Rouse's permission to move for an Order of the Day on another day, he had asked now for a first Order of the Day, and warned him that he would not get any such consideration extended to him in future. Mr Macandrew disclaimed all notion of tenderness or consideration in bringing his case hefore the House. He had only claimed his due, which was justice not kindness. Mr Dargaville came forward to help both his old friendß, by proposing an amendment to pue the Bill down a week later, when nothing would interfere with the member for Port Chalmers. Mr Macandrew agreed at once, whereupon Sir George Grey most handsomely came forward and said that his old friend had shown his readiness to do all he could to serve him and he wonld at once give way, and he asked Mr Dargaville to abandon his amendment. ibis brought from Mr Holmes a magnificent enlogium on the chivalrous character of the Knight of Kawau, which even Mr Froude could have heard with great appreciation. But somehow Sir G. Grey began to feel uncomfortable. The lawyers were very keen for Mr Dargaville to abandon his amendment — too keen, in fact. At last light dawned on the veteran. " Sir," he said, " I beg to be allowed to withdraw the request I have iust made to my colleague, the member for City West. Having discovered that my lon friend the member for Port Chalmers and I are both being played upon, no other course is cpen to me." Sir George had discovered at laat that the lawyers wanted nothing better than to pet No. 25 into position before his Legal Practitioners -Bill, because they knew quite well that they could have talked away at No. 25 until the end of the private members' day. From this dilemma the House allowed him to escape, so No. 26 was postponed till July 8, and the House went on with the business : hefore it. PABCELS POST. This Bill was read a second time, after a "brief explanation of the chief points, in a very thin Honse. LOCAL BODIES LOAN. This Bill was introduced this afternoon by the Treasurer, in rather a thin House. He explained that it had been carefully considered. Ifc did not propose to repeal any of the existing measures, but if it proved a success that course may have to be followed. He explained the principle of the Bill a3 '* combining the greatest facility for giving security w,-h the least amount of burden to borrow -." A separate account, he explained, **-■■ a necessary means for expending mom.*;. n the purposes for which they are bor. o .ved. It was an ear-marking process in fact. Payment of the first year's interest out of loan being a convenience, is offered, but only on the consent of the ratepayers being given. Another new provision is that rates are to be raised before charges are due — an encouragement to punctuality of payments. After explaining the Bill in further detail, Sir Jnliu3 Vogel sat down. Captain Sutter said, " If you want the localities to provide their own school buildingß, why don't you manfully bring down a Bill to do it ?** He declared his belief that placing this burden on the local bodies would check a deal of the extravagant struggling for fine buildings, which now goes on. Mr Mo3s was Tery fierce and uncompromising, on both Government and Opposition. " The general Government relieve themselves of expenditure," said the critical member for Parnell, " without diminishing the general taxation, and they give for the purpose a borrowing Bill to local bodies, which, as a borrowing Bill, is absolutely perfect. In that respect I quite agree with the leader of the Opposition. Why even the check on the first year's interest ia taken away. The Bill i3 the very thing for a popularityhunting Mayor." Thus Mr Moss objected to ifc on principle, and declared at the same time that he did not care a straw for details. Mr Cowan followed in the track trodden by Mr Ormond and Captain Sutter on the education question, with approval. He had always thought the time was not far off when the General Government would find the cost of education too great. That time had come, and local bodies mnst now take up their share of the national burden of education. Mr Rolleston was quite of the other way of thinking. To him it seems that in the storm of "retrenchment" now flowing, the first thinga to suffer will be our social institutions — asylums, industrial schools, orphanages, school buildings. To this he objected ; at all events, he thought that j the unfair expenditure of the past ought to be taken into consideration. Great towns. had all the schools they wanted, atthe general expense, and we ought not to throw the whole cost of the schools now on the country districts. Thia wonld, he warned the House, bring disastrous friction into the educational system. Captain Russell's experience was exactly contrary to Mr Rolleston's. Moneys had not been forthcoming in the required directions. He rather liked the Bill, but would like to see provision made for every Education Board to provide adequate school i buildings. The Bill did not seem ! to him a truly colonising Bill. Borrow- I ing by local bodies was necessary, and ! unavoidable, but the outlying districts ] would have nothing to borrow on, ! and they required other provision for j their wants. The Treasurer, in reply, begged hon members not to regard the Bill i aa intended to go to the fundamental principles of local government, but simply as j enabling local bodies, which already have ' the power of borrowing, to borrow on ; better terms. The Bill (the Hou?e still being desperately thin) passed, and the House adjourned for dinner. PRIVILEGE. Opinions differ as to the wisdom of the Treasurer in bringing this matter before the Housej but no one has failed to be ! struck by the fact that while the leader of j the Opposition ha3 altered his views since ; 1877, the leader of tho Government still ' holds the views he gavo expression to at ; that time. This was one of the main features of yesterday's discussion. MR VAILE. This gentleman's evidence has proved so interesting to the Committee appointed to j examine his system of railway management, . that il has determined to keep him every i day from 10 to 11.30 till it has mastered hia

VMHtEBiBttUHPUBMMB&?R*'MA.tHitI.iT.Wi "/^ | ll*^i_lu_l*f4;»m*fg_fy*rP j idea*. Mr Vaile attends daily, with great . satisfaction, and n large array of maps, i plans and his chart, so famous on so .many lecture platforms. OTAQO CENTRAL. The Otago membera are not satisfied with the provision made for their work, but . they do not see how the Government can do anything more for them. The more energetic of their membera, at their head : Mr Pyke, regard the Dunstan as the first '; ; natural terminus of this line, tho terminus j which will open up the mo3t country, and ! produce the most revenue ; thence to the ; West Coast, by the Haast Pass, (only seven '■ ; hundred feet they say impressively) will ; } be the next step, in the first instalment of ! • the Dunstan. They think a Company ! j should be formed on the basis of land grants. \ I In this direction, Mr Pyke is to take i action. THE TARAWERA DIBA6TERB. Mr Scobie Mackenzie brought forward this matter in a very practical spirit, at the afternoon sitting. He Baid, (in asking his question as to whether the Government had considered the propriety of offering facilities to a seismologist to come out and report on the recent volcanic disturbances), that his question implied no want of respect to the very able scientists in the Colony. The fact was that the phenomena of earthquakes formed a science by itself, and what was wanted was a specialist. It v:as impossible to exaggerate the importance of the subject. It was certain the disturbance would be followed by great changes, including changes of climate and temperature, and permanent alteration of levels. The eruption had broken out in a mountain that had been quiescent for possibly one thousand years. Mr Guinness here rose to a point of order, and, with evident seriousness, said Mr Mackenzie wa3 introducing debateable matter, in saying the volcano had been quiet for 1000 yeara. (Laughter.) The Speaker did not think the hon member was out of order. Mr Guinness then said : I claim the right of producing arguments on the other side. (Laughter.) Mr Mackenzie thought the subject would not be much affected by the hon gentleman's arguments. (Renewed laughter.) Since he had tabled his question he had heard that Professor Hufcton might be regarded as a seismologist, and he trusted that gentleman would be at once des?atched to the scene of the disturbance. Pithin recent years, a Seismologieal Society had been established in Japan, a country also liable to volcanic disturbances, and the result had been a valuable addition to our knowledge of this important subject. He thought New Zealand offered a remarkable field for a Bimiiar Society, The Minister replied that tho Government would consider the matter when Dr Hector returned. If his report recommended such a course they would make arrangements for a seismologist, fhear in one or two places, questions about Canterbury College, " Why does the College not send up Professor Hutton ?" Such ia the question, — which it is no part of my business to answer. NEW HEBRIDES. The adjourned debate was further adjourned till Friday, on the motion of the Premier, for a State reason, a plea quite satisfactory to Major Atkinson, but not to Sir G. Grey, who wanted to know what the State reason was. The House, however, being less curious, the debate was adjourned. GOVERNMENT LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES. The House is still paying the Policy Bills the compliment of full benches. The Treasurer introduced the above Bill, and explained its provisions. Major Atkinson received the Bill almost in the same fashion as he had received tho previous loan measure, complimenting Government on being on the right track— in fact, as having surpassed the Roads and. Bridges Act. It had surpassed it so much that when ifc became law those who had borrowed under the older Act would be so heavily handicapped with their harder terms as to be entitled to some measure of relief. Mr Moss made a speech hostile and almost identical with what he said during the afternoon, on the loan measure, bewailing the dreadful borrowing tendencies of the age. A good deal of criticism followed, in more or less vigorous fashion, of the neglect of the out districts; and there was a good deal of acceptance of the Bill in the spirit of the man who said it was the best Bill he had ever seen. Mr Rolleston said the keynote of the Bill was that it would bring the people face to face with, the consequences of borrowing in a way they had never been brought before. Iu that respect he liked the Bill. He regarded the option of borrowing for education purposes as a mandate — a thing he thought the people would not like when they realised it. He saw no provision for the making of roads in out districts, a thing which he remembered wa3 not omitted from the Roads and Bridges Act. lt was, in fact, the only good thing not appropriated fro*n the Roads and Bridges Act. Mr Montgomery thought the proposal for establishing a Sinking Fund in 1886 inconsistent with the abolition of the Sinking Fund in 1884. Major Atkinson interjected, "We are wiser than we were iu 1884." Mr Montgomery quite saw that, but he saw, also, that what had happened in 1884 might happen again ; therefore, the provisions tor the Sinking Fund were illusory in his opinion. While agreeing that settled districts should tax themselves for the maintenance of their school buildings, he strongly objected to the principle of making the outlying population tax themselves for their new schools. In twenty-five years, five millions would be borrowed, and he thought not much of the amount would be paid off. Still, as he saw no other way of guarding the local works, he would support the Bill. After further discussion, during which a hope was expressed that the Government would, on a future occasion, bring down a measure to encourage the development of the outlying districts, and many civil things have been said of the Bill, the Treasurer replied, after a light play of chaff with the Opposition leader on account of his taunts. He informed him that the whole of the principles of the Roadß and Bridges Act are omitted in the Sinking Fund. He thought the present advantages were great enough to require the re - payment of the loans. If future Treasurers thought otherwise, that was their affair. The member for Akaroa was not only a Junius for the present time, but he professed to be a Junius for all time to come ; but the Sinking Fund policy was right for all that. The ease of those who were handicapped by the Roads and Bridges Act he promised to consider, to see if the pressnre could be made lighter by variation. After justifying the education proposals, he addressed himself to Major Atkinson's renewal of tho arguments which he had employed against the Financial Statement. During this, the Major contradicting him once or twice, Sir Julius complained that the Opposition leader always took advantage of his | unfortunate infirmity, to which the Major retorted that that was tho hon gentleman's ; best stock-in-trade. After the laughter j caused by this little incident had subsided, the Treasurer pursued his point to the bitter end, and hoped they had heard the last of ! that criticism, whereat the member for | Egmont laughed, and said " by no means." Referring to the hardship implied in the criticism that the Bill gives to those who have, and is empty-handed for those who want, the Treasurer said that was the hardship incidental to the varying position 1 of the settler, but the poor districts had the ' provision of the Crown and Native Lands District Act. Besides, borrowing must be a matter of degree. Moreover, the Ministry did not propose to abandon main roads, and for theso reasons they could not be considered unmindful of the poorer districts. Tho member for Geraldine ! having objected that the gravity of hon j members* faces was an objection to the ', Bill, the Treasurer observed that "to ' please the member for Geraldine, we ; must have a Bill that would be laughed out |of the House." For his own part, knowing that the member for Geraldino had at an early age grown ashamed of his sense of humour, he would never attempt to construct a Bill which ; would bring an expression of pleasure to ; hia countenance. Were ho to try that, he feared that he would try a most impossible

w»T.m , «*ff - *A« , 'w*^^ task." There was, as may be imagined, considerable laughterat Mr Rolleston'B expense, after which the Treasurer promised tc give notice of certain amendments he , would bring down in Committee, and brought his speech to a close. After an explanation by Mr Montgomery, the Bill waa read a second time. On the whole, no Policy Bills have had such a favourable ! reception as the Bills of thia year experi- '-. enced to-day. At eleven, the Houso went to supper. After 6upper a financial discussion > stopped the way, Major Atkinson defending his criticism of the Financial State- . me::t, Mr Mosi, proposing an amendment, j and the Treasurer replying. In brief, this lis the discussion : — Major Atkinson said i (when the Treasurer said there was a sum | of .£BOO,OOO to the credit of the Public Works Fund to vote as the Houso pleased) that he misled the House by not taking count of the liabilities, which the Major proceeded to detail at length. The Treasurer replied that he did not mean tho i House could spend the money on violins and [ pianos, or any other luxuries, bub uponceri tain works which were mentioned in the sentence of the Financial Statement, of which Major Atkinson had only quoted half, and which he (the Treasurer) now I quoted entire. The meaning in this sentence of the Financial Statement was the ordinary meaning in which sueh expressions were used in all Finan- * tuai Statements, and was so understood by ]„e House. The motion for committing ■ the Bill on Friday then passed. JU6TICES OF THE PEACH. Sir George Grey, when the Bill got into Committee, moved the first seotion of his new clause, doing* away -with the power of nomination. A very instructive debate ensued, during which Sir G. Grey made a magnificent fight for his proposal, and Mr Bruce, Colonel Trimble, Messrs Duncan and Samuel distinguished themselves, but in spite of the efforts of Sir G. Grey — whose readiness, quickness, and original reply at all points, made a most brilliant display — the House refused by a substantial majority to abolish the nominative principle. After some business on the Counties Bill, the House adjourned.