DEPUTATION.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 3311, 16 November 1878, Page 3

DEPUTATION.

DEFENCES OF LYTTELTON.

The Mayor of Christchurch (Mr Thomson), the Major of Lyttelfron (Mr Allwright), the Major of Sjdcnham (Mr Booth), and Messrs Harman, Cunningham, J3.R. Bishop, E.G. J. Stevens, Stead, Coster' (Bank of New Zealand), Palfuor (Union Bank), W. White, and John Inglis, yesterday morning met by nppointment the Hon Colonel WJiitniGre, in the G'ity Council Chambers, for the purpose of learning from him the intentions of the Government in the matter of fortifying the harbonr of Lyttelton.

Mr E. C. J. Stevens, who introduced the deputation, stated that he had been intrusted with the task of placing before the Hon Defence Minister the objects which the deputation had in view. Before doing co, however, he might say that the deputation might be considered as fully representing the mercantile, financial, and shipping interests concerned. Those present: felt a very deep interest in the question of defences, nob merely because there happened at present to be some fear of complications in Europe, in which England might be involved, but' generally because for a long time it had been felt thab some provision should be made for the defence of the coast. The deputation was aware that a vote, had been taken for the purchase of heavy guns, and estimated that the guns must be already on their way. The object of the deputation was mainly to O3k the Defence Minister, if he saw fit, to inform them when it was expected that the guns would arrive. It would also afford satisfaction to the public if it could be made known when the works in connection with the proposed batteries in the Lyttelton Harbour would be put in hand, and under what superintendence the batteries would be placed when erected. The question of the number of guns to be allotted to Lyttelton would also be a matter of interest, and he thought it would be gratifying to know under what system they were to be worked. He hoped that if he had omitted any of the objects which the deputation had iv view, some gentleman present would supply the omission. Mr Harman would add an inquiry whether Government had received any advices aa to the guns having left England. ' Mr Thomson did not think that Mr Stevens had alluded to the point whether the position of the batteries had been already decided upon, and if it had, whether any consultation had previously been held with persons able to give advice upon it.

Mr Cunningham thought that Mr Stevens had omitted to ask whether Government intended to work with Volunteers, and in that case what assistance would be given by professional engineers.

The Hon. Colonel Whitmore quite recognised what Mr Stevens had said in his opening remarks as to the deputation representing the principal interests of all kinds in the Province. For that reason he was disposed to go a little further than he might otherwise do in explanation of the matters referred to. There was almost absolutely nothing in the action of Government that was nofcconfidential. The Government had been placed in a difficulty in consequence of the " secret and confidential " written on the despatches which had been received from Home. But as time had gone on the people of the Colony had naturally become anxious to know what had been done, and he (Colonel Whitmore) had determined now to go a little more into explanation than it liad hitherto been possible for Government to do. He would, however, not do so had not the despatch he referred to borne a strong similarity to the report sent by Sir William Jervoise to the Government of New Zealand. He would explain what was the intention of the Government. It was to protect the principal harbours of this Colony, of which of course Lytlelton was one, j by very powerful cannon— so powerful that j no vessel, however heavily armoured, couldi stand being struck from them two or threif times. As these guns will be fired from a steady platform, being placed on land bat| teries, it was extremely improbable that even an inexperienced person would fail to hull an attacking vessel. Although Sir William •Tervoise was a great authority, and he (Colonel Whitmore) considered himself a very humble authority, and so far removed/ from having any right to give an opinion; upon such a subject as opposed td such masters of the profession as Sir William Jervoise and Colonel Scratehley;, he regretted, however, to say that he was compelled to differ from them, not so much on professional grounds as because he felt that the Colony would not be able to bear the expense of carrying out their recommendations. As an instance he would take the Harbour of Wellington. This wns proposed to be defended in a way the Colony could not carry out, viz., from the Heads, which were at a considerable distance from the town. Should a cruiser succeed in running in past the Heads in the dark, or during the existence of a thick mist, she could not afterwards bo touched, but would be able to bombard the town with perfect safety to herself when once she had turned that point. The great objection, however, that he had to the scheme was that a permanent force would have to be kept there, and the money for that he certainly would despairof inducing Parliament to vote. What he hoped to see done was to keep a permanent stuff to care for the heavy giins, to keep off intruders, and to protect the guns and ammunition kept with them. He hoped to have a staff of professionals sufficient to teach volunteers to do this, but he did not apprehend that the Colony could, keep a permanent force for this duty. His idea was to trust to the volunteers, who, of course, would be :put on pay when called out for 6uch service. Such payment would not cause them to cease being volunteers, and the duty would differ in every respect from permanent service. Thinking this, he had represented <o the Cabinet his opinion, which might not be worth much. He did not wish people to suppose that because he had been professionally educated he could say what kind of batteries should be built, or what spots should be selected as sites for them. The Government had determined to consult the highest authority on the subject in the Colonies, and as coon as the guns arrived, or were known to be near, tho services of Colonel Scratchley would be, with the consent 6i Victoria and New South Wales, placed at the disposal of the New Zealand Government. He trusted that the explanation he had given would be satisfactory. He hoped he might say— though he was not actually in receipt of a communication on the subject from Sir Julius Vogel — that there were coming out to this Colony .' eleven 7-ton guns and eleven new 64-pounderl muzxle-loading rifled guns, also a complete] torpedo establishment for the working of] submarine mines in all the New Zealand! harbours. It was now found that the earliest invented apparatus were of no use, but would only prove to be a nuisance to our own com* meree. The system of exploding by electricity wlnt are called submarine mines was

fourid an excellent one/ and IforVthis complete machinery would be prdyided.CThe ; principal Jiarbours— Auckland, WeUujgton,' 'Lyttelton, Dttnedin, and JSTelson— were the only harbours _ynieh the Government proposed should be in a completie,,way., i After, this was done there would remain a certain number of heavy guha available for the defence of such harbours as Oamaru and Timavu. The guns would have been here before that time if things in Europe had not taken so favourable a turn. The Home Government had come, to the conclusion that/ as things were looking a little brighter, they would not send out Hie converted 64» pounders, but would send the new ' pattern 6-1-pounders. For these New Zealand had to, wait. Sir Julius Yogei had advised the Government that if they wished to hurry the* Home authorities they should telegraph. He (Colonel Whitmbre) the same afternoon that he received that communication telegraphed that the Government hpre hoped there would be no delay in sending the guns. With respect to the number of grins' for Lyttelton, the, question wa3. hardly of such importance that lie should disclose the intentions of the Government, the more so because the modifications in the circumstances of the Colony, which might take place, would of adurse affect the number of guns to be placed at each port. He^ might, however, say that at the five principal harbours he had just mentioned, the number of guns and the provision for submarine mines would be amply sufficient. There would be no: stint. The Commission in London was not likely to underdo the thing. They had ; been accustomed to have practically no limit, and their credit.would depend upon the manner in which they acted. 'He found that they had slightly increased the estimate j of Sir William Jervoise, — by 'two gtiris, he thought.; The Government had not abso-. lutely received advices as to the guns . leaving' England, and he did not think it likely that they would, as the peremptory telegram he had sent would ensure the utmost despatch. As to the position of the batteries at Lyttelton, there would be no question aboutthat. The same objections did not exist here as at Wellington. The volunteers could be sent to them immediately when they ' were required, and the small force in charge could nob therefore be cut off before assistance could, reach it. He thought he had now answered all the questions; if not, he hoped his attention would be called to any lie bad overlooked. He might mention that it was proposed by Government to throw the volunteer artillery of the whole Colony into one body, having the same uniform and going through the same drill, so that in case of misfortune they could be concentrated into the same battery and could work together on the same system and as one body. Such an organisation had a precedent in England, where the artillery formed one regiment and was tinder the same system all round. The naval volunteers would have the same advantages, and would also be encouraged to manage heavy guns. The Government did nob think it possible, that an organised naval attack could be made upon any point. There was no fear of an attack from an ironclad. No ironclad, as a matter of fact, carried sufficient coals for more than six days' steaming. As for privateers, they were too expensive ; no individual could afford to pay their cost, which was about three-quarters of a million apiece. But no vessel, other than an ironclad, could make its way against such heavy guns as the New Zealand ports would be provided with. Trading steamers altered for privateering purposes would be exposed to the greatest risk, on account of the impossibility of protecting their boilers. One shot from these heavy guns striking the boilers would completely destroy the vessel. It might be assumed that stress of weather or want of coal might drive a hostile vessel into one of our harbours, but he had never been one of those who thought that there would be much danger to be apprehended on that account, for lie could not conceive how a hundred men could do much harm to a town in which there were a thousand men. Captain Fairchild had said that ho could run the Hinemoa into any such vessel which would sustain the whole damage of the collision, as had been seen in the Jate running down of the Alice. He (Colonel Whitmore) thought there would be no difficulty in taking such a vessel with boats, as her great guns could nob be depressed sufficiently to be brought to bear upon small boats. The hostile vessels would be of- a class similar to the Alabama, which would live on the unarmed traders to be met with out at sea, and not run the risk of being telegraphed from the coast, and so meeting the British cruisers. Bombardment, to be effectual, must be from very heavy ordnance, which meant again large projectiles, and of these a vessel could not carry many. A round or two would not do much harm beyond frightening the women. Even 109 shells would not do more perhaps than set fire to a portion of a town, and he very much doubted that they could afford to spend co many. Bombardment meant a continuous heavy fire for several days ; and what could a wretched little vessel do in that way ? To prevent our being insulted, he thought the harbours should be provided with guns which would make an enemy keep from molesting our coasting craft, and annoying . vessels coming to us for safety. It must also bo borne in mind that privateering was now carried on by people who had ropes round their necks, and who, if they were caught, would certainly be hanged. *No man-of-war did such things. No captain of a man-of-war would come in and threaten to bombard a city. The time when this was done had gone by, and it was not recognised as legitimate in modern warfare. All that wasreally to be feared was the taking of prizes and the interruption of local trade. He believed he might say that the guns would be here before the close of the year. Until then Government would nob send for Colwnel Stratchlcy. The guns would be sent out in vessels coming to the ports for which they were intended. The moment Government had reason to know that the guns were near they would have Colonel Stratchley. The Victorian and Sydney Governments were entitled to his services, and therefore it was a favour for New Zea* land to have them.

Mr Harm an nsked if the Government intended to invite an organisation specially adapted for manning tbc batteries, the present artillery being only a iield artillery. As fnr cs he understood, a now organisation would be necessary, cither of the present men, or an entirely new organisation. Ho wished to ask whether the Governmont proposed to invite special offers of service for this duty ?

Colonel Whitmoro en id that the Artillery Volunteers were exactly fitted for the duties. The only difference would be one of drill. Garrison batteries at Home had been made into horse artillery, and ciec-rerxd. The education of tho present artillery was sufficient, and ho believed they would find no difficulty beyond learning the range, which would be (aught them by suitable persons. The books now published gave all the information necessary for gtms of erery kind and of every calibre.

Mr Stead understood Colonel Whitmore to say thnf.tho guns would bo discharged at the ports for which they \rero intended. Could lie say how many gnus would be allotted to Lyttellon ? Colonel Whitmorodid not think it desirable that ho should sity nioro than ho had done.

Mr Cunningham thought that Colonel Whitmore had given a very common-sense opinion as to tlie placing of the batteries at the Wellington Heads. Would not the same objections hold against batteries being placed at the Lyttellon Heads ?

Colonel Whitmoro did not think so. The Wellington 1 loads wero nine miles from the town, and the country in their neighbourhood was uninhabited, The Lyttelton Heada ■were much nearer the town, and communication very easy. Mr Cunninghnm had asked the question because formerly sfc had been proposed to place a battery half Way tip the harbour. \- Mr Harinan eaid that. Colonel Moulo, ho thought, had recommended that in his report. r Colonel Wbitntore did not think the report t of Colonel Moulo could bo made use of now.

Mr liar man callcdattention to thearrangemontr advised by Colonel Seratehley and Sir William Jervolso for fortifying Hobart Town and the Australian harbours. Coltnel WMfctnoffl pointed oat that in New South Walei, Victoria, &«., the towns of importance were, #o to apeak, focuaaed. In

New- Zealand it was nob'M r They could not carrjr outa {place; of importance. He^wpuldhfeer. *» point; this out jto; Colonel „ ( ;He JKCotoneL; fThitnioM) could give a professional opinion,modified by his Colonial experience. He did not think the Colony criuldstand the expense. . Mr Stevens thanked Colonel Whifcmore for his courtesy, and the deputation then withdrew. '.»'■■■•'■ " ; •■'.■.■-■•■••'' : "" : : '".••'■ :^v'i