PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 2233, 13 May 1875, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, May 12. Tho Spoakor took tho ohair at 5 p.m. papers.

Tho Hon J. T. Peacock laid sovoral papors on tho tablo.

teachers' salaries.

Dr Rayner askod if it was tho intention of tho Govornmont nofc to pay toaohers' salarios monthly, but quarterly. Tho hon mombor stated, in asking tho quostion standing in his namo, that it would if carried out as to quartorly payments, bo a groat injustice to toaohors of schools. Suroly honourable mombors who woro mombors of sohool committees, or who had been know vory woll tho long dolay in tho paymonfc of fchoso gontlomen's salarios by tho Board of Education, and tho serious inconvonionoo resulting thorofrom in thoir domostio arrangements. Ifc was bufc a short timo since tho Board altorcd thoir quarterly to monthly paymonts, and now tho Govornmont had expressed thoir intontion of reverting to the quartorly payments. Tho reason of suoh alteration induocd him to ask tho question now boforo tho Houso. Ho trusted that tho answer of tho Govornmont would bo satisfactory, and that thoy, tho Govornmont, would insist; fchafc toaohors of sohools roooivo thoir salarios without ony dolay aftor the usual quartor-days. Mr Maskell said ho understood that tho praotioo at prcsonfc obtaining, was to pay ovor tho amounts to tho Board of Education quartorly in advanoo, and tho monoy duo up to Juno 80 had boon paid ovor to tho Board of Eduoation. As to delays, ho was not awaro that thoso ocourrod. Tho whole mattor of oduoation would, ho hoped, soon bo more undor tho oontrol of tho Government, whon oaro would bo takon to obviato tho ovil complained of by tho hon mombor. HOARD OF EDUCATION. Mr R. Turnbull, without notico, asked whothor tho Govornmont had roooived any Estimatos from tho BoardJ of Education for sums roquirod this yoar. Tho Hou J. T. Peacock replied that tho Estimatos had boon sont up by tho Board, and woro now on tho tablo of tho Houso. RAILWAY TO ASnLEY GORGE. Mr HiaaiNS askod if tho wholo of tho corrospondonoo relating to tho proposed railway to Ashley Gorgo, bo now on tho tablo. Tho Hon J. T. Peacock replied, that so far as tho Govornmont woro awaro, tho wholo of fcho oorrospondonco was on tho tablo.

TUBLIO HEALTH AOT.

Mr Walker said ho understood that tho Provincial Soorotary was not proparod to answor his question that day. Ho boggod, thoroforo, to movo that tho quostion standing in his namo bo placed on to-morrow's Ordor Papor, namoly— "lf Govornmont intond to tako aotion towards tho Amendment of tho Publio Hoalth Act, in tho noxt sossion of tho Gonoral Assombly, ombodying amondments forwardod by local Boards of Health."

SPECIAL grant and endowment to CHRIST-

cnußOi ..

Dr Turnbull asked tho Provincial Soorotary if it is tho intontion of tho Govornmont to plaoo on fcho Supplementary Estimates a

speoial grant of monoy for Christchurch, or to propose that an endowment iv land be mode for tho city.

Mr Maskeii,: With regard to tho firat portion of this question, I may stato that a grant to tho city of Chriatchurch will, of course, bo inoluded in the sums placed on the Estitnatos for grant* to Municipalities and Road Boards. With regard to the aecond portion of tho question, I may aay that it ia a a question which has been beforo the Government for some time, and is still under the consideration of tho Government, namely, the subject of an ondowment in land. It ia not at present settled. DRAINAGE OF LAKE ELLESMERE. Tho following question lapsed in the absence of Mr Bluett :— Whether it ia the intention of tho Government to proceed with the drainage of Lako Ellesmere, and if so, whether it is their intention to throw tho land reclaimed open for salo : and in any case, whether it is their intontion to take off tho reserve on lands adjoining tho Lako above high water mark and throw thoso lands open for sale. AGBICULTUBAL DISTBICT. Mr Walker moved—" That fcho district containod in tho undermentioned boundariea bo proclaimed an Agricultural district under tho provisions of " Tho Trespass of Cattle Ordinance, 1869 :" — Commencing at tho beach at tho trig, polo 45 on tho north Bide of the mouth of the Waikanui Creek, and extending in a right line running north west to trig, polo 15 at I.P.R. fence on boundary between runs No. 139 and No. 98 ; thence by a right lino crossing tho Great South road", and extending north-west to trig, polo 12 on north sido of tho Ashburton road north, on run 124; thoneo by a right lino to north-west boundary of Ashburton Road Board District at its intersection with tho Ashburton road north ; thoneo by tho said north-west boundary to the south sido of tho south branoh of tho Ashburton river ; thenco following tho south aide of fcho said branch to tbe sea." Tho motion was agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. The Hon. G. Buckley moved that leavo of absence bo granted to the Hon. E. Richardson for ono woek. Tho motion was agreed to. TEMUKA PARK COMMISSIONERS. Dr Rayner moved— "That the Government lay on the table all correspondence between the Temuka Park Commissioners, the Police, and tho Govornmont, respecting a dividing fence between tho Temuka Domain and Police Buildings. Mr Maskell said the Government would lay tho correspondence on tho tablo. Tho motion was agreed to. ROAD BOARD ADVANCES ORDINANCE. Mr Maskell moved — "The first reading of tho Road Board Advances Ordinance, 1875." Tho motion was agreed to. The bill was read a first time, and the socond reading fixed for next day. MESSAGE NO 6. Mr Maskell moved— That tho Council tako into consideration Mossage No 6, from his Honor tho Superintendent. The motion was agreed to, and a resolution was passed, recommonding his Honor tho Superintendent to mako tho resorve for tho Opawa railway extension. PETITION OF MR H. N. NALDER. Mr Webb moved — That the potition of Mr H. N. Nalder, presented to the House on Thursday, May 6, bo referred to tho Select Committeo appointed to consider the Resolu- i tion No 6, Notico Paper May 6, and Resolution No 3, Notico Papor May 7, for their report thereon. Tho motion was agreed to. DRAINAGE OF LAKE ELLESMERE. Mr Bluett, by leavo of the Houso, asked quoation No. 5 on tho abovo subject. Tho Hon J. T. Peacock replied that tho roport had so rocently come in, that tho Government had not had timo to tako the mattor fully into consideration. He thought that, for this year afc all events, tbe Government did nofc sco fcheir way clear to drain Lake Ellosmoro. Tho second part of tho question, of course, rested on tho first. According to Mr Bray's roport, tho work would cost £21,000. With regard to tho last part of tho question, ho might say that tho land was permanently reserved, and could not bo takon off, oxcopt by Act of the Council. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On tho ordor of tho day boing called for, tho Houso resolving itself into Committeo of Supply, Mr J. N. Tosswill said that as no othor mombor appeared to bo willing to rise, ho would wish to point out to the House boforo tho Estimates wore debated, that there appeared to him to be a serious error in connection with tho Government Estimate of tho amount to bo obtained by means of an increased rato towards tho cost of school buildings, Tho Govornmont had accepted the Board of Education estimate of £53,974 for tho orootion of sohool buildings during tho past year. It appeared that they estimated £42,790 would bo required for what thoy termed old distriots, and that £11,184 would bo required for now districts. Bufc tho Board of Education estimato of the cost of building such so-called now districts was not £11,184, but £14,239. Thoy had also apparently uttorly lost sight of tho fact that although tho Estimates included a ro-voto of £10,429, it was quito possiblo a largo portion of thia sum might bo appropriated for works now in progross, from which ifc was quito impossible to hopo to obtain half of tho cost, as tho buildings woro actually now, many of them, built, and tho rato calculated upon tho onesixth basis was now in courso of collection. Tho Govornmont Estimates woro, therefore, nltogothor wrong, and ho was surprised that this important mattor had been overlooked by thorn. In order to ascertain what portion of tho total sum of £53,974 would really bo chargod with ono-sixth, ond what portion would pay one-half, bo would add tho sum I now actually duo, or about to becomo duo, by tho Board of Education for buildings in progress, amounting to £9588, to tho sum estimated by tho Board of Education as for altogothor now distriots, namoly, £14,229 ; and to tbis ho would again add £1500, as tho half of £3000, tho amount sot down by the Board for contingencies. He thus arrived at tho fact thafc fcho sum of £25,327 would bo chargeable with one--sixth, and deducting this from £53,974, that £28,6 17 would bo charged with one-half. Ono-sixth of £25,327 was £4221, and one-half of £28,647 was £14,324, and it thua followed that inatoad of a total rccoipt from rates for school buildings of £23,209, as estimated by tho Govornmont, tho total receipts would actually bo £18,515, showing a differenco of £4665. But this was not all, for thero wero still vory largo suniß included in the £28,647 abovo stated wbich should, in all fairness, bo considorod as belonging to now districts. For instance, in East Christchurch, tho school buildings woro nofc completed as was tho caso in West Christchurch, and it would bo prepostorous to expect that East Christchurch

would submit to pay one-balf tho coat of these buildinga, and that Weafc Chriatchurch ahould escape with one-sixth. He did not believe that tho Council would allow auch a thing, and if tbis waa not done, a further aum of £12,245 would require to be eatimated aa only contributing one-aixth. Working out these figures he arrived at the astonishing facfc that in all, tho aum of £37,572 would be required for new buildinga, and £16,402 for old buildinga. Again, one-aixth of £37,572 waa £6262, and one-half of £16,402 waa £S2Ol, so thafc in all, inatead of £23,209 being raised by ratea npon sohool buildinga, the amounted melted away to £14,463. But one-aixth of £53,&74, wbich would bo raised under the existing system is £8995, so that after all the only saving affected would be one of a paltry aum of £5468} and iv order to effect; this, it waa contemplated to loyy, wbat would be to the older country districts, a perfect prohibition tax. Beforo sitting down he would like to take the opportunity of explaining to the House, whafc the Provincial Secretary had characterised aa the extravagance of the Board of Education in sending in estimates for the erection of schoolmasters' houses, at pricea ranging from £300 to £1320. It waa perfectly true that the Board proposed to erect a master's house at Timaru of an expensive character, but the circumstances were entirely exceptional. Timaru was the natural centre of a large district, and it had been atrongly represented to the Board that many of the resideafe. in thafc portion of the province, wero in great need of the means of obtaining for their children an education somewhat Buperior to that ordinarily obtainable in district schools. It was also pointed out thafcthere waa no school of a superior charac* ter similar to the Chriatchurch College Grammar School, and under the circumstance*, the Board decided to erect a atone building to accommodate a schoolmaster of auperior attainments, and if necessary a few boarders. With this exception the sums asked were nofc large. In all, twenty-eight masters' houses were required, and they would cost upon an average £364 each. He aaw by the Estimates that ifc waa proposed to build a cottago afc Lyttelton for the keeper of the powder magazine, and he would aak if this aum was conaidered necessary. Waa £364 too muoh to spend for a schoolmaster's house ? If the Government had only taken the trouble to inquire, they might have easily obtained the above information. They appeared to bave most peculiar views of theu* position withregardtothepublioservice.Theothernighfc the hon member at the head of the Government, made a statement blaming the Railway Engineer for having delayed in the preparation of the Departmental Eatimatea. The hon member appeared to forget that by all the laws of ordinary Parliamentary usage, he waa bound to defend and protect a publio servant in that Council. He trusted that the Government would see that the practice he had pointed out, would be, if continued, entirely subversive of that good understanding which it was so desirable ahould subsist between the Government and tho Publio Service. (Cbeera.)

Mr Montgomery said: Sir, I listened attentively to tbo statement made by the Provincial Treasurer, and have Binco read it over very carefully, and while I am anxious to give bim credit for it if regarded aa an essay or literary production, I must aay tfiat it is not, in the ordinary acceptation of the term, a Financial Statement. In every Financial Statement or Budget thero ia an eatimate of tbo income likely to be received, and alao tho expenditure required for the current year. Tho amount required for tho service during tho year ia carefully calculated. In each branch the lowest amount for which the service can be conducted ia aefc down in the Estimates, and the Government ahould bo prepared to show each amount to be necessary. Instead of ahowing a balance-sheet in which ail auma required for the service during tho current year are included, thehon gentleman haa furnished a statement of our provincial affairs, and he baa deliberately stated that the Government will indicate to tho Council when I going through tho Estimates, those auma which thoy think may be struck out or reduced. | Therefore, thoso Estimates of expenditure are nofc Estimates of sums the Government believo will be necessary for the public service, but an aggregato of sums previously voted, and new amounts placed on the Estimates to bo asked for or not, aa the Government may dotermino. Now I venture to say the course adopted by the Government is without precedent, and that it puts it out of the power of tho Council to form any correct idea aa to how thoso Estimates will pasa out of committee. Had tho hon gentleman stated that the Government would aak with tho hopo of obtaining every amount on the Estimates, but thafc in minor matters due weight to any arguments which might be adduced by members of tho House when the Estimates were passing through committee, and that they would bo willing to agree to auch reductions as might be ahown to be necessary, I could understand it } but to aay tho Government would lead the way in reducing their own Estimates is one of the strangest statements ever heard in thia Council. I think the Treasurer ahould state explicitly tbe itema he intends to strike out or reduce ; that in facfc an amended balanco sheet; should bo laid bofore tho Council beforo any sums outside tho departmental expenditure be voted. Since the statement bas been made, the Secretary for Public Works bas indicated some of tho reductions the Government propose to mako, but I did not understand that all proposed reductions were mentioned, but if he had stated precisely the wholo of tbe items, tho Council would only bo in possession of tbe material with which to reconstruct the Estimates and form a balanco sheet. I think it might reasonably bo inferred from tho tono and tenor of the hon gentleman's statement that thefinanceaof tho Province? are not by any means in a satisfactory condition : that, in short wo havo a certain deficit to meet, and the peoplo must mako up their minds to bear additional burdens to do so. I do not mean to say that the hon gentleman drew so gloomy a picture aa it appeared to somo membera of the House, or to some of tho public outsido ; but he mentioned tho word " deficit " repeatedly, and I think it can bo shown that there ia no deficiency, and that wo commenced tho current financial year under very favourable circumstances. I beg and claim the attention of hon members tothe following atatemont. I uae only round numbers to prevent unduly encumbering the statement with figures. Wo commenced the present financial period with £352,000 cash in tbo Baok, £100,000 worth of Harbour Debentures not issued, amounta duo from General Government for tho purchase of Quail Island and re-funda £12,000 ; outstanding accounta duo to railwoy £9000 • Assured Sinking Fund, £22,000 ; altogether, £495,000, or nearly half a million. Thia aum doea not include any portion of tho revenuo of tho current year, as tho £9000 outstanding duo to tho railway is nofc, I understand, included in the estimate of receipt* from rail-

ways for tho ourronfc year. Now, against this amount/what contracts havo boon enfcored into and what; sums will bo roquirod for works oommonood, whioh must; bo completed. I havo mado a careful calculation, and havo had tho assistance of a gentleman who thoroughly understands tho condition of our publio works and all ongagomonts relating thoroto, and this ia whafc I think will bo found oorroot : Tho utmost oxfconfc of our actual liabilities, including amount for oomploting Lyttelton harbour works, purohaso of stoam drodgo, conversion of railway gaugo, passenger station at Ohrisfcohuroh, railway workshops and machinery, paymonts to the General Govornmont, Waimakariri Gorgo bridge, southern bridges, publio buildings (inoluding Normal Bohool, Musoum, school buildings), £14,000; Gaols, Lunatic Asylum, &0., and grant to Road Boards of £16,000— is £373,000, whioh, deduotod from balanco £495,000 aa previously stated to bo available, leavos £122,000 with whioh to commeneo tho financial period. Tho Treasurer has estimated tho balanco for appropriation afc £150,000, bufc I think ho has omitted somo items. Bufc ifc will bo said fchafc tho Council votod largo sums for other works, which should bo undertaken, if nofc now, afc somo futuro timo, and fchafc provision should be mado for fchoao works. This is undoniablo, and I shall ondoavour to show that thoro can bo no difficulty in this mattor. It may also bo said that last, year, tho amount votod boing in oxcods of ostimatod receipts, and thoso receipts having fallen off, thoro in a difficulty in providing for now works. I boliovo ifc can also bo shown fchafc there will bo sufficient; rovonuo fco meet fcho necosaary oxpondituro. This is nofc my provinoo j ifc belongs fco fcho Provincial Treasuror, bufc as ifc has boon industriously oaloulatcd fchafc wo could nofc sco our way fco find fcho monoy. I boliovo hon mombors will nofc fchink I ara un luly trespassing on thoir fcimo, if Igo into fcho quostion somewhat; fully. In Juno last, Estimatos woro brought; down, Bhowing a total of roooipfcs for tho yoar of £1,150,912, and an oxpondituro of £1,113,412, leaving a balanoo of £37,500 unappropriated, but it was afterwards represented to tho . Govornmont that fcho Treasury owed a largo sum to fcho district; South of tho Rangitata, and thafc fchis debt; should bo acknowledged by allocating to cortain works in fchafc distriot a portion of tho amount; striofcly belonging fco tho distriot. Tho Govornmont thought; this was a roasonablo view to take j and accordingly, in tho Supplementary Estimates, woro inoludod £50,000 additional to Timaru broakwator j £60,000, extension of Point; Railway j £10,000, extension of Waimato Branoh Railway ; and about £24,000, for sundry bridges and metalling of roads, including d§soao for planting reserves and bridgo sites. Bufc ifc novor was infcondod fchafc all theso sums should bo retained in tho Bank until theso works would bo exooutod. Ifc was an allocation showing to tho pooplo South, how tho funds belonging to tho district; should bo spont. Altogether, fcho Ordinance passed in Juno appropriated £1,316,922, or £166,000 moro than tho ostimatod receipts for tho period. This was dono with tho full consent of tho Oouncil, without ono word of dissent; from fchoao who generally gavo financial matters their attontion. Mr Kennaway, who thoroughly understood tho quostion, said not a word, nor did fcho hon member for Waimato, nor did the prosont Treasurer. Tho only mombor who seomed astonished was tho hon member now at tho head of tho present Govornmont, bufc I don'fc remember fchafc ho said anything. In fact, the voting of tho various suras in tho Supplementary Estimates was thoroughly defensible, but ifc was of courso opon to any mombor to ask whoro tho monoy was to como from. I may say horo that Mr Kennaway was in tho habit of doing what all govornmonto do— asking tho sanction of tho Council to a groator Appropriation fchan tho Estimatos provided for, becauso experience had shown that fchoro had always boon considerable Bums unexpended afc tho ond of ovory financial period, and thafc if caro woro taken nofc to mako contraots until tho fund, wero certain, thoro oould bo no flnanoial difficulty. Mr Konnaway'n main Estimatos for tho year ending Sopt. 30, 1873, showed an oxpondituro of £458,255, but appropriations woro takon £573,435 or £120,679 in oxocss of Estimate. For tho 12 months, ending Sopt. 30, 1874, appropriation was mado for upwards of £119,000 above estimated availablo roccipta. I do not mention this to show that; wo followed a prooedont j bufc moroly cifco fchoso oasos to show that thoro was nothing unusual in tho courso adopted last session. Tho unexpended balances on sohcdules B and 0 at tho end of Maroh, 1875, amountod to £700,000. Evory mombor of tho Oounoil knows that all tho monoy votod would nofc bo requirod during fcho period for fcho Lyfctolfcon Harbour Works, nor for the Timaru Broakwator, nor for tho extension of tho Point; Railway, nor for fcho wator supply botwoon Rakaia and Ashburton, nor for a numbor of othor works. And tho samo thing will hold good to a groator or less oxtont for tho ourronfc year, if fcho Oouncil ro-vofcos all fchoao unoxponded sums and makes frosh appropriations .1 n anticipation of tho rovonuo. Tho danger might bo in tho Govornmont. ontoring into contraots boforo thoy mado cortain of tho rovonuo aooruing. Thafc, of course, is a danger to bo oonsidorod } bufc we must; placo somo faith in our publio mon if wo aro to havo a Govornmont afc all, and I, for ono, am nofc at all afraid of allowing a roasonablo latitude. To say now, that thoro is a deficit would bo to misapply fcho word. It might havo beon used with equal truth at tho commencement/ of fcho financial yoara 1873-4-5, because largor appropriations wero mado than tho rovonuo for tho curront poriods would covor, but it was not thon used, nor can it bo appliod now. Tho Provincial Troasuror was thoroforo quito correct; in stating that " fcho balanco of £26^031 afc fcho debit sido of fchis balanoo shoot is not actually a cash deficit for tho current yoar." Whafc I object; to is that ho used tho word so often, and laid 00 much Btross on ifc fchat; hon members thought; thoro was a deficit. Thoro is no dofioifc, nor can fchoro bo a deficit if roasonablo prudonco bo oxoroisod. Now, as fco fcho falling off in tho land rovonuo. Ifc is fcruo fchafc during fcho nino months tho rovonuo was loss than amount estimated by about £40,000, bufc ifc muab bo bomo in mind fchat in the Estimatos for lastporiod, tho rocoipfcs for Juno woro nearly £10,000 loss than actual amount rocoived, therefore tho falling off of fcho land rovonuo was actually only about £31,000 — nofc an amount fco causo any serious dorangmonfc of our finanoos. Hon. mombors will thoroforo sco thafc fchoro is nothing to causo alarm. Tho land rovonuo of tho current yoar is, I think, undor-oßtimatod, bufc whothor it is or not, ifc must bo borne in mind thafc a groafc amount of work has boon dono towards oponing up communication with tho interior, by tho formation of roads and bridgos. Ifc must not bo forgofcfcon thafc thoro has boon a vory largo amount derived from fcho land salos sponfc on railway and harbour works during fcho past nine months. Wo cannot spond fcho procoods

of land sales on railways and havo the monoy for ordinary roads. And this brings mo to a mattor of groafc importanco affooting our finance, I moan tho salo of tho railway botwoon Lyfcfcolfcon and fcho Solwyn fco tho Gonoral Govornmont. Ao tho Provincial Troasuror has nofc alluded fco fchis question in his Statement, wo aro in ignoranco of whafc aro tho views of fcho Govern - monfc on fcho matter, but ifc may not bo uninteresting to mombors to loam that tho lato Government agreed, subject fco fcho sanction of fcho Provincial Council, tb soil fcho railway at a fair valuation. A bill, giving powers to purohaso, passed tho Houso of Reprosontatives, bufc was thrown out in tho Uppor Houso. I beliovo tho Gonoral Govornmont is now about to havo tho railway valued, and that aotion is likoly to bo takon at noxt session of tho Goneral Asoombly. If this lino bo sold, fcho monoy dorivod from fcho salo should bo employed, I think, to making a dry dock or a slip in Lyfcfcolfcon, in making branoh linos of railway, and providing funds for necessary oxfconsion works Soufch of fcho Rangitata. At all ovonfca, tho lato Exeoutivo _ discussed thoso mafctora, and hold fchoso viows, I wish to say a fow words on fcho abolition of tho Sohcdulos A and B. Tho Treasuror endeavoured fco mako out a caso for fchis alteration. I don't fchink ho suoooodod, bufc what I particularly wish to point; out io, thafc ho laid groafc stress on tho assumed faofc that fcho ordinary inoomo would nofc oovcr fcho ordinary oxpondituro. Now, I think ho might havo ro-arrangod tho ifcomo, and ifc would fchon havo boon soon fchafc fcho ordinary income would bo sunioionfc. If ho had placed fcho railways and interest on loans in Sohodulo B, and tho oapitation allowance in Sohodulo A, I think tho ordinary incomo would bo found sufHoiont to covor tho oxpondifcuro without increasing tho eduoation foes. Tho dobfc was inourrod for fcho construction of railroads, publio works, and immigration, and tho intoroßfc and sinking fund should bo a fair ohargo on Sohodulo B. I think, howovor, wo may arrange our sohodulos, that it should nofc go forth to tho world that wo aro using our land fund to oovor our ordinary expenditure, I may call tho attention of tho Treasurer to what I fchink ho will find is an error. Ho statos fchafc Sohodulo Ais indobfcod to Sohodulo B in £18,418, but I think ho has over-looked tho faot that thoro is a sum outstanding duo fco fcho railway of £9000, and that four quartors' mainfconanoo of education was debited toSohodnlo Aduring tho 9 months. Respecting tho rovonuo requirod for oduoation ond fcho remarks in fcho Sfcatomonfc rospooting this quostion, tho hon gentleman stated fchafc fcho Board of Education " recommended fcho preparation of an Ordinanoo, by whioh fcho wants of eduoation might bo mofc by raising a property tax throughout tho provinoo." Now, I think tho hon gentleman is in error horo. Tho Board rooommondod a proporty rafco instead of a houso rafco, and I fchink suoh recommendation deserves tho bost consideration of this Oounoil. Ifc is monstrous to supposo fchat a houso of fchirfcy-fivo rooms, worth £400 a yoar, should bo rafcod no highor than a oottago of throe or four rooms, and I can quito understand why tho hon mombor for Ohristchurch spoke warmly, fooling, as ho did, strongly in tho matter. Whon tho second roading of fcho Education Ordinanoo comos on for discussion, I havo no doubt hon mombors will go fully infco fcho question. With rospocfc fco fcho old sohool distriots boing called upon for a contribution of ono-half, instoad of onosixth, as formerly, if tho raising of tho rafco bo mado compulsory, pooplo in fchoso districts will nofc consider themselves fairly dealt with 5 and if it bo loft to tho pooplo to voluntarily tax themselves, from ls 6d to 3s in tho pound, a moro cunningly doviscd schomo oould not bo hit on to provonfc tho orcetion of tho buildings. Of courso this was not tho intention of tho Govornmont;, but fcho offoofc will bo fco provonfc suitablo buildings boing erected. It; will very materially chock tho progress of oduoation. As to tho proposal to doublo the children's foo, I think nothing could bo moro impolitic. This also oan bo discussed at anothor timo, and I shall nol; thoroforo tako up fcho fcimo of fcho houso by further romarks on this mattor. Tho noxfc subject is tho railways. Tho Govornmont; gravely proposo to run tho now linos afc an annual loss of £12,514 } and to mako up this serious loss, thoy proposo to raise tho rates on tho old lines. It novor seems to havo ontorod into thoir heads that thoso who mako uso of thoir branch or new lines should pay for fchom, or fchafc fcho numbor of trains por day should bo only suoh as tho trafllo would warrant. Tho Houso, I fchink, was lod to oxpoofe when fcho groat; railway critics gofc fcho managomonfc of fcho railways in fcheir own hands, fchafc fchoro would bo a groafc and bonofiicenfc revolution ; and tho outcome is a loss on branoh linos to bo mado up by inoroasod fares on tho old linos. I hopo tho Houso will objoofc to this inorcaso of faros and rates of oarriago, and thafc fcho Socrotary for Publio Works will yot bo abio to show thafc fcho branoh and now lines muefc bo workod without loss, Tho noxt thing I shall rofor to is tho Museum, and I would not say so much upon ifc woro tt nofc fchafc fcho present; Govornmont; boar un-' nooossarily hard on fcho Board of Governors j and fchafc I fchink ifc always right fchafc mattors should bo so plaood boforo tho Oounoil in all points of viow, in ordor thafc hon mombors may bo able to form a moro oorroot opinion fchan if fcho ono sido only woro prosonfcod fco fchom. (Hoar, hear.) On Sopt. 22, 1874, fcho Provinoial Seoretary (Mr Jollio) wrote tho following letter to tho Chairman of tho Board of Governors of tho Cantorbury College:— " Sir, I havo tho honour to aoknowlodgo tho receipt; of your letter of tho llfch insfc., accompanied wifch plans of proposed additions to fcho Museum j and in roply, to stato that fcho £14,000 votod for additions to tho Museum building is availablo for that purpose 5 it boing undorstood that this will bo tho full amount thafc will bo at; fcho disposal of fcho Governors of tho Oollogo for additional buildings, and will inoludo architect's commission, and all othor oxponsos in connection with tho additions." Tho Government, through fcho Provinoial Socrotary, wroto to tho Governors of tho Oollogo, a body appointed by this Oounoil, of mon who wero considered to bo roprosontativo mon, and of a oorfcain amount; of weight in fcho community. Tho Govornmont wroto that fcho monoy was availablo undor cortain conditions. Tho Board of Governors wroto baok somo fcimo afterwards to say thafc tenders had oomo in, but thafc fchoy woro in excosa of fcho amount voted, and thoy thoroforo askod tho Govornmont to plaoo at thoir disposal tho amount voted, pointing out that as ifc would tako two yoars to comploto tho building, tho interest accruing would onablo thorn to carry it out, and pay commission and othor ohargos. Tho Govornmont vory proporly rof usod this, bocauao tho Govornmont took credit in thoir Estimatos for a certain amount of intorosfc for unsponfc balances lying in fcho Bank. Consequently, tho Board of Govornors oallod for frosh tenders, and fcho Govornmont; rooommondod fchafc fchoso should bo sonfc in by fcho 20th March. After tho tondors camo in fcho

Chairman of fcho Board of Govornors called upon fcho Govornmont;, with fcho arohitoofc, in tho month of March, and rpprosontod to tho Govornmont thafc, with somo slight; alterations, fchoro would bo no difficulty whafcevor. Thoy roprooonfcod fchafc fcho tondora of Messrs Tait and England Bros., would como witliin fcho amount appropriated, and tho Govornmont said "We authorise you fco aooopt fchoso tondora." Tho Govornmont did so, booauso thoy had given fcho Board of Govornors to boliovo, and, in fnol;, tho Govornmont had plodged fchomsolvos' fco ifc, that fchey would sanction tho aeceptanco of thoso tondors. On March 81, fcho Provinoial Seorofcavy (Mr Jollio) wrote to his Honor Mr Justice Gresson as follows:— " Sir, — I havo tho honour to inform you thafc fcho Govornmont havo acoopfcod fcho amondod tenders for fche now buildings afc fcho Musoura as roducod, namoly, by 19 foofc in fcho norfch wing, and as recommended by fcho Board of Govornors — namoly, Jaraos Taifc, for excavating, conorofco, masonry and brickwork, for £6281 17fl , and England, Brothers, for oarpontor, joiner, ironmonger, slatos, plasterer, painter, &0,, for £6329 Bs." In oonsoquonoo of thafc lottor, tho Board of Governors acoopfced fcho contracts. Now, Ido nofc know bufc fchafc fcho Govornmont may bo quito wrong, bufc certain ifc is fchafc fcho Board or Govornors woro not; wrong. Thaf; Board aotod in all good faith, and whatovor may happen, whoovor is to blamo, tho Board of Govornors is not. I would wish to call attontion to this gnafc whioh fcho Government; aro straining at, This monoy will nofc all bo roquirod for two yoars. Tho oontraot; ontorod into is fco orccfc this building in two yoars— £7ooo a yoar, and oan you boliovo, sir, that fchis Houso will ropudiato fcho engagomon fc ontorod into by a former Govornmont, involving £7000 a yoarP I vonturo to say that this is nofc an object; of luxury, bufc ono of nooossifcy. (Cries of "Oh, oh," and "Hear, hoar.'") Tho Museum oonfcains 62,000 valuablo spooimons; 75,000 pooplo visit il; ovory yoar. Thafc ifc imparts a good deal of instruction I think fchoro oan bo no doubt, Thoro is something moro required in fchis world fchan food and olofches. Wo must; oultivato tho mind j if we do not* wo shall havo a population rosombling the peoplo who livo in many of tho agricultural distriots of England— moro ohawbacons, with no artiolos of faith bufc tho parson and tho squire. I vonfcuro fco say fchafc strangers who visit fchafc Musoum, go away with fcho impression fchafc fcho pooplo horo aro a cultivated and ordorly pooplo, Tbis is ono thing, I contend, thab induoos sotfclemont. (Hoar, hoar). Dopond upon ifc, all fchoso things go to leavo a favourablo impression upon visitors, and, in a raonotary point of viow, I do boliovo honestly, whatovor othor pooplo may think, that tho Musoum has boon a thorough suoooss j that ifc has boon a moans of inducing pooplo to sottlo in this provinco. Thcro has boon suoh a collodion brought horo, that nothing bufc fcho wonderful onorgy of tho gentleman conducting ifc would havo accomplished. Thoro is nob room for fcho spooimons wo afc present posßoss j thoy aro not in fcho bost position whioh thoy might occupy if moro room woro at disposal j and suroly tho Govornmont; of Canterbury will hoaitafco boforo repudiating an ongagement, whon fchafc engagement only roqniros £7000 a yoar for two years. I wish now fco say a fow words on tho Fomale Rofugo. I understand tho Govornmont infcond that this shouldboaaolf supporting institution. I should liko to know what fcho Govornmont; moan by fcho expression, " fcho peoplo P" How will you gofc trustees fco fcako a building ovor on suoh a footing P I mysolf advocated fchafc fcho Fomalo Rofugo should bo plaood undor fcho caro of a commifctoo of ladios and gontlomon, who would intorosfc fchomsolvos in obtaining subscriptions. I entirely object; fco our institutions boing supported by what is called fcho bonovolonoe of tho pooplo, booauso I havo had somo exporionoo as to how pooplo Bubsoribo. In England tho oaso is vory difforont, booauso fchoro aro moro pooplo in a position fco oonfcribufco liborally towards institutions of this oharaotor. In this oountry it scorns thafc wo aro only to tax tho ohildron for oduoation. If tho hon gontloman (Mr Maskoll) wishes fco raiso monoy, lofc him pufc on a polioo tax, a charitable aid rato, and lot tho pooplo who havo enjoyed tho ordor and good conduct of tho oifcissons for bo many years, pay in proportion to thoir moans, (Hoar, hoar,) Bufc I don't fchink ifc nooossary fco raise monoy ih this way, booauso wo don't want it. If monoy woro ncodod, I Bay— don't; tax fcho ohildron, bufc tax proporty. (Hoar, hoar.) I havo ori fcioisod fcho Statement of fcho hon gontloman froely, but I think and hopo not in a captious spirit;. Anything, said in opposition to tho measures of a Govornmont; is frequently takon to bo tho oufcoomo of ptw onal fooling, or fco bo fcingod wifch such fooling. Bufc I know whafc anxiofcy fchoro is afc all times in fcho minds of thoso having tho management of publio affairs, and nothing oould bo furthor from my intontion than to offor opposition in ordor to embarrass tho Govornmont. I boliovo ohangos of Government, if fairly brought; about, aro genorally conducive to tho publio advantago, for' mon oomo fco fcho front who aro full of ardour, and burning with a dosiro to distinguish thomselvofl, whilo tho publio has tho advantago of fcho oxporionoo of fchoßO who have loffc office, and oan bo oortain of fcho aofca of fcho Govornmonb boing wafcohed by mon who havo boon behind fcho soonos.' I hopo fcho Oounoil will discuss all matters fully, and thafc hon mombors will nofc consider fcho fcimo wasted whioh is oooupiod by debates on important questions. Hoar, hoar.) Mr Montgomery was loudly ohoorod on resuming his soafc. Mr Jebson thought fchafc tho looturo givon to tho House by tho hon mombor for Lincoln would nol; bo forgotten. Ho hopod, howovor, that tho mombors of tho Govornmont would still rolain tho right of individual opinion. Wifch rogard fco tho last spoakor, ho might; say that ono good action was worth a thousand homilies. Ho thought; that tho statomonfc of tho hon mombor thafc fcho provinco was in a sound financial stato, was hardly rooonoiloablo with tho aotion of tho lato Govornmont in declining to pay monoy to tho Road Boards on tho ground thab thoro was a falling rovonuo. That was tho first noto of alarm, and it; oroatod a considerable amount of surpriso. Tho hon mombor oooupiod sovoral oapaoifcios ; boing a mombor of the Board of Govornors, of tho Board of Education, Proaidont of tho lato Exooutivo, and a mombor of that Houso. Ho thoroforo possoßaod a groafc advantago ovor othors in dealing with finanoial mafctors in his sovoral capacities. , Tho hon mombor had stated that tho rovonuo might bo mado fco moot fcho oxpondituro. Tho ordinary rovonuo was £70,485, and fcho ordinary oxpondituro, £136,459, loaving a dofioioncy of £65,974 on fcho ordinary rovonuo aud oxpondituro of fcho Provinco. It; was fcruo fchafc £35,000 was ohargod for survoys, but taking fchafc off fchoro still remained £35,000 whioh oould nob bo mofc out; of any souroo of income Ho should bo fcho last to pufc forward anything likoly to bo dolrimontal to tho Province, bufc whilo thoy

might all fool this, thoy should not fall into fcho othor oxtromo of distorting facts to show a favourablo condition. Tho votes for hospitals, polioo, &0., woro likoly to increaso in tho futuro afc a far groator rato than fcho inorease of rovonuo. Tho ordinary rovonuo was thoroforo far insufficient fco mcofc tho oxponditnro. During tho last threo yoars oducatirm had attained largo proportions, and had absorbed vory largo sums of monoy. Was ib possible thab this branoh oould bo mado reproductive ? Ho would allow that it was in somo sonses reproductive, but oortainly not poouniarily. Thoso who woro intorostod porsonally in education, should fchomsolvos pay fche cosfc. Oonourronfc with tho proposal tb doublo tho foes for ohildron, thoro was tho proposal to doublo tho district contributions in aid of buildings, so thafc fcho burdon was largoly distributed. Tho necessities of tho oaso had to be met, nnd thoro was only tho land fund upon whioh to draw. Thafc fund was nofc likoly to bo as great in tho futuro as in tho past. It wns nofc posoiblo to do away with any of tho oxisting institutions. As to tho railways, ho was astonished afc tho statomonfc of fcho hon gontloman that; negotiations had beon going on witli tho Gonoral Govornmont for fche purehaso of fcho railway from Lyttelton to tho Solwyn. Why, fchat; was tho koy of tho wholo railway systom of fcho proviKoo. (Hoar, hoar.) Ho could nofc holp asking himsolf how ifc was thafc ovor £.5,000 should havo boon sacrificed through tho roduction of tho tolls, with tho prospect of disposing of tho railways to a purchasor who was in tho markot. It soomod vory liko depreciating tho valuo of tho railway property, by dooroasing tho annual rovonuo thoi of rom, as had boon dono by tho lato Govornmont. Ho oould only infor that tho roduction had boen mado for tho sako of getting rid of tho property afc a ohoap rato. Ho hopod the prosont Govornmont would ondoavour to mako tho railways reproductive, as they might; easily bo. If tho Capitation Grant of £47,000 had boon distributed among tho peoplo hitherto, ho oould undorstand tho objeotion whioh had boon raisod with rcspoct to it, Thoro was a sum of about £350,000 to bo appropriated to tho railways. Now, £203,000 of that oould not bo sot down to ordinary expondituro, and should go to capital aooount. Tho idea of raising money by loan on tho soourity of the railways could not bo carried out. Tbo Horbour Works, again, would cost somo £150,000. Ho thought that, in parting with any of fcho proportics, tho provinco should reoeivo full valuo, ofchorwise ho could not rogard ifc as othor than an aofc of confiscation. Tho hon mombor spoko vory emphatically of tho great works undertaken by fcho Govornmont during tho last finanoial poriod. But ho could say, from porsonai observation, that vory fow of thoso works woro finished, and ho had no doubt that, as tho Provincial Seoretary had said, thoro was a liability of £200,000 still outstanding on fchoso works. The lato Government had waetod six or eight months in dolaying to oommonco thoso works. Thon, aB to tho Malvern wator supply, why did tho lato Govornmont, with an overflowing oxohequor ancl a patriotism that oould not bo ourbod, why did they hesitate to oxpond £5000 in oonstruotiug a dam in tho Kowai in ordor to ascertain whothor sufficient wator could bo oolleotod P Thousands of acros had boon sold on tho strength of tho oarrying out of thafc work, and yot tho Government had suddonly put a stop to it. Tho hon gontloman alao soomod to say that thoro was not tho Bamo.nooossity for maoadamisod roads, now that fcho iron roads woro being constructed. Did tho hon member forgot tho immense area of land which had boon bought, and which was not situatod noar tho railway linos or termini P Tho bridges whioh were proposod and whioh woro in courso of construction, would bo utterly usoloss without good roads leading to thorn. Tho notion of tho Govornmont bad beon suoh as to bring Provinoial Governments into odium throughout tho colony. (Hear, hoar.) As to tho doficiency on tho narrow gaugo railways. If tho Govornmont fitted themselves into tho groove loffc by tho lato Govornmont; ifc would bo a greafc misfortune to thomsolvoß and tho provinco. Ho hopod they would striko out an indopondonfc lino for themselves, Tho hon gontloman had mado no allowanoo for tho traffic whioh would bo brought to tho main linos through tho use of tho branch railways. Ho hopod tho Govornmont would inquiro into tho cosfc of transhipping from tho broad to tho narrow gaugo carriages, Thafc oxpondituro ought not fairly to bo ohargod to tho branoh lines, as it was incidental to tho old gaugo. Tho hon mombor said that tho Govornmont had followod in tho stops of fcho lato Governoxoopt in ono rospeot, viz,, that thoy had not roducod tho numbor of . trains on tho now lines, or raised tho fares thereon. Thoro was no principlo in suoh a proposal ; it was simply audaoiou .. Tho idea of only running trains whon thoro woro goods to bo oarried was absurd, and could not dovolopo tho linos. Thon as to thafc toy shop within a fow chains of whoro thoy sat — (laughter)— he had alroady oxprossod his opinions protty froely. It; was largo enough fco contain tho wholo of fcho flora nnd fauna whioh had oxiatcd from fcho dolugo fco tho prosont hour. (Laughter ) All goologioal phonomona ought to bo brought within tho comprehension of all intolligont pooplo in tho community, but why, on fcho 31sfc day of Maroh, fcho last day of tho finanoial year, did tho hon gentleman, who was also ono of tho Govornors, acoopt a tondor for £14,000 for an oxtonsion, and thon oomo down to tho Houso and support his aotion on a mattor whioh ho had prejudgod ? Tho hon mombor told thorn tho work was a nccossity, and wont on to oulogiso the Curator. (Laughtor.) Why, if ho were a Lyoll, a Murohison, or a Buckland, ho might bo culogisod, bufc, as ifc was, ho was lauded becauso oomotimos by moans of ox bonos— (laughtor), — or moa bonos, or an agglomoration of bones, lio had succoodod in attracting tho attontion of tho learned in Europe and Amorica. Tho largo bird whioh had boon so ofton soon, somotimos alivo and somotimos dead, has boon graphically dosoribod as early as 1839, and it was from tho exact drawings whioh had thon boon mado that tho wondorful spooimon thoy saw had boon olaboratod. Tho lato Govornmont gavo notioo to tho Roard Boards— that thoy could not havo thoir monoy whioh was duo, and twelve dayo afterwards they signod a contract to orcofc a building in whioh fco storo articles whioh ought long sinoo to havo beon sont to tho bottom of tho soa. Tho amount duo to tho Road Boards might havo boon tho means of saving many valuablo livos through tho construction of bridges, and yot thoy woro sofc asido coolly in favour of thafc monstrosity. (Hoar, hoar.) Tho gontlomon who oamo to Now Zoaland to soo tho Musoum, woro thoso who had a knowledge of tho subjects connoctod therewith, and ho hopod to got thoir £1000 a yoar through ifc. Dr Rayner must say a fow words rolativo to tho remarks of fcho last speakor. Ho had himsolf novor soon tho Musoum, but he had always hoard it highly oxtollod. Ho thought tho hon gentleman had boon carried away by

his feelings. (No, no.) He much regretted to hear such expressions from tho hon mombor. Tho Musoura waa an ornament and a credit, aud ono of tbo main sights of Christchurch. Tho comical allusions of the hon mombor woro quito out of placo, and almost boyond tho bounds of parliamentary usage. Tho institution to which ho referred reflected the highest credit on tho Director. He also regrottod tho references wbich had beon made to tho Foreign societies aud scientific men who had assisted by sending valuablo contributions to the Museum. (Hear, hear.) Mr W. B. Tosswill took it for granted that; tho figures adduced by tho hon member for Lincoln wero correct, bufc thoy must look afc^ something moro than thafc. He did not think that the proposition of the Government was unreasonable, aa thoy really were going to pufc a tax on property for tho erection of schools, whilo at the samo lime those who used the soho-ls should pay a higher fee. (Hoar, hear.) It could certainly nofc bo called a . hardahip. Tho speech of tho hon mombor for Heathcote had somewhat rolioved hia mind ns to tho state of tho finances, aud had shown him that they wero not in so bad a stato after all. Tho land revenue for January last was £6600; February, £8391 5 March, £9319 ; April, £31,569 ; and, from fcho Ist; to tho 10th May, £5736 ; so that in one month and ten days they had about one-third of the estimated land revenue for the year. (Hear, hear). Some amounts had boon struck out of the Estimates which might vory woll bo retained, aa tho wholo of tho votes would not bo requirod during tho finanoial year. It was a wise system to voto money so as to start works, and it was a good policy to vote more money than they could spend during tho year. (Hoar, hear). It would bo a fulao economy to refuse to go on with tho extension of tho Museum. Tho Govornmont proposed to dovoto a portion of tho Normal School for tho use of tho College. Ho would suggest whether ifc would not bo woll to set it apart for a college and publio library. (Hoar, hear.) He hoped tho Govornmont would not persist in the position thoy had taken up as to the Mußeum. (Hear, hear.) Ho thought ho could ahow the Government how they could economise, namely in building cottagea in country districts. If a private individual erected a building, it would cost £100, bufc if ifc was a Government work, £800 was nut down. Tho cottages erected for the immigrants were infinitely bettor than thoso in which their employers resided, and he could only characterise that ns extravagance Tho hon mombcr for Rakaia blamed the Government for nofc inaugurating new works, and ho thought not unfairly. The Malvern Water Supply was a work which ought fco be carried out, and ho trusted that the Government would reconsider their decision upon fchafc mattor, especially when thero were largo votes such as tho Opawa railway, £60,000, which could not be oxponded at onco. He folb fchafc thero waa no cause for alarm, and thafc noxfc yoar thoy would have as large a cash balanco as they had afc present. Mr Turnbull must say that he felfc ploasod at fcho temporato speech of tho hon moniber for Hcathcoto, bufc fchat hon member failed to recognise the signs of tho times. It was owing to* that fact, that fcho present Government wero now in oflico. Ho thought a study of tho Estimates would show that there was a deficiency of somo £40,000 or £50,0J0. They ought therefore to exeroiso vory great prudence. He thought tho Government wero right in not including fche Capitation Grant in Schedule A, becauso ho believed fchafc in another yoar or two thafc grant would be abolished. It was therefore not an item of permanent rovenue. Ho had every rospeot for tho hon gentleman, but it was a noccssity thafc thoy should strictly economise. Nothing oould havo moro injured the labour market than tho practioo which had obtained of voting such largo sums of money for works. (Hear, hoar.) Tho day would como whon thoy would require monoy to employ the superfluity of labour which would exist, Ciroumstonces had changed widely sinco tho timo when Mr Konnaway was in power. Tho best of the land had been alienated, and tho producers wore not in the samo position to inorcaso thoir holdings. (Hear, hear.) Tho provinces had had fair warning that thoy must ceaso to exist. Ho thought the time had not como for tho abolition of tho provinces. (Hoar, hear.) Thoy must economise, and not run themselves into difficulties. Tho question of education would bo fully considered when the bill came on, It had boon said tbafc a greafc injury would bo dono by doing away with tho Charitable Aid voto. Nothing had dono moro harm to tho action of tho religious bodies tban tho existence of fchis item. (Hear, hear.) Tho aofcivo duties of philanthropy had beon stifled, through fcho matter being left to tho Govornmont. As to tho Mueoum ho oould not respect tho Board of Governors, as thoir action had been " tricky." Tho papers on tho subject wore tho mosfc extraordinary he had over seen. On Sept. 22, tho Government wrote, saying thafc £14,000 was available for fcho purpose, bufc it must cover all expenses. Thon, after a delay of throo months moro, thcro wus another communication to the samo offcefc. Proposals to make reductions in the cost woro then mado, to bring the cost within tho amount voted. Ho doubtf d fcho sincerity of the late Govornmont in tho wholo offair, as thoy stated thafc they objected to tho ro ductions proposod, and advised the Board of Govornors to call for tenders in Dunedin, and frosh tendera wero oocordingly called for, and eventually accoptcd. On April 2S. tho preaent Government; gavo notico to tho contractors that tho work must stand ovor until tho Appropriation Act was passed. Thoro was another lottor, stating that tho lato Government and tho Board of Governors had accepted a tender aud signed a contract. Ho should liko to see that contract. If it was only a vorbal ono, it was no contract at all. Ho doubted tbo wisdom of voting thoso large sums. Ho should not liko to sco any inconveniences fall upon tho Board of Governors, and, if necossary, ho hoped a vote for tho necessary compensation would bo passed. Ho had recently gone through the Museum, and it certainly equalled a third-class travelling musouui. Ho had seen a bigger skelotou of a whale and of au olophant. (Laughter.) Thore was a great deal of space unoccupied at prosont, tho Maori houso for instance. Many of the articles should bo romoved, and ho was suro thoro would bo amplo room for all purposes. Ho was sorry to hear tlio lato Presidont of tho Executivo cxpre.s tho opinion that any ono who saw tho Museum would go away overwhelmed at tho grandeur of tho institution. Visitors would bo much moro likely to ask " what ifc cost ? " Tho amount which had beon expended upon it would construct a very considerable amount of railways or other public works. Tho question which men who camo hero would ask was, " What aro the burdens whioh wo wil lhave to bear ?" That was a cuieution which was of far greater importance

to them than the existence of the Museum. Tho result was that people were driven away, and actually shunned the place. He would, not say any more, as other hon membera were anxious to speak. (Applause.) Dr* Turnbull eaid he did not intend to occupy the attention of the House for any lengthened timo, but he would take another opportunity if ho found it necessary to criticise tho Eatima tea brought down by the Government. In the first place, he thought it only right to thank the Government for the handsome present which each member of the House had received in the shape of the Public Works Statement aa contained in tha Slar. (Laughter.) He really hoped, however, that the Government, in selecting the evening paper for presentation to the House, did not wish membera to draw the inference that the ata fcernent of the Secretary for Publio Works was not worth twopence. (Loud laughter.) With regard to the conduct of the Government and the Board of Governors of tho Canterbury College, he desired to say a few words. Ho conaidered that the late Government had acted in a moat straightforward manner ; but their action waa objected to on the ground that while the late Government voted tho sum of £14,000 to the Museum on March 31, they refused to pay the sum of £14,000 to the Road Boards. The action which tho Government took, arose from two entirely different causes. The Government stated distinctly to the Road Boards thafc fch© money was voted on certain conditions. (Hear, hear.) In addition to thia, he wonld point out that tho sum voted for tbe Museum was to bo spread over two yeara. The inference thafc they were asked by some hon mombors to draw was, that in refusing to pay tho Road Boards, the Gov. lament had acted unfairly in order to get the £14,000 for the Museum. He thought; the present Government made a raah assertion when they aaid thafc the Governors of the College had behaved with greafc precipitancy in the acceptance of the tendera, because he contended that all through fche tranaaction the Board of Governora had acted with great prudence, caution, and carefulness. The whole faolfc waa to be attributed to the objectionable manner in which suma were voted by the Council for certain purposea. According to the existing practice, votes of money lapsed at the end of the financial year, and the result was that contractors sent tenders in enormously in oxcesa of the amount juatified by the contract market, well knowing that if they were not accepted the worka could nob be carried out through the lapsing of the votea of the Houae. Tbia was exactly the case with regard to the Museum. Tbe Government seemed to hava been singularly but not intentionally afc fault in thia matter. They had acted wrongly throughout the wholo affair. They seemed to be entirely ignorant of the letter of March 31, in which the Government intimated the acceptance of the teudera of Mesara Tait and England Bros., and that on that day the contracts wero signed by tho contractors in Mr Mountfort'a office. He thought ifc a moat unwise proceeding on the part of the preaent Government, to repudiate tho action of their predecessors simply aa a matter of buaineaa in the management of the affairs of the province. Tho present Government wero unwise, nob only in repudiating the action of their predecessora in office, bufc also in ignoring the Board ot Governora and entering into direct communication with the auppoaed contractors. - A great deal of unnecessary irritation might have been avoided if the Government had adopted what waa the proper course — namely, communicating with the Board of Governora inatead of writing directly to tho contractors. With regard to education, tho one great idea running through the policy of the preaent Government waa the increasing of taxation on popul^Uon, and keeping property p retfijjlwell frecrnrom any of those burthens that ou.»ht justly and properly to be placed upon it. Thia waa manifeatly unjust, and ho begged most emphatically to protest against the course which tho Government had taken in this matter. The whole idea of the preaent Government aeemed to be to make tho peoplo pay for all they got, and let property go on throughout all time without taxation. He protested against it. Ho did not intend going much further into thia queation of property and taxation, but ho wished to notice tha entire absenco from tho Estimates of anything of tho apecial grant tbat waa to be brought down for tho centres of population. Ho thought ifc could nofc bo questioned thafc tho late Government waathrownoutof office a good deal on the idea that was urged by prominent members of the present government, that the Municipal Fees Bill, if passed, would bo a direct vital injury to the resources of fche municipalities — nofc only becauae loans could nob be raised upon it, but thafc it would prevent the Houso passing that large monied endowment which Christohurch and other municipalities deserved. Where, ho would ask, waa this endowment? When the preaent President of the Executive occupied a aeafc on the other side of tho Houso, ho complained very strongly of the stench existing in tho auburbs through bad drainage, but since ho went over to the other side of tho House they had heard nothing on tho subject. Ho (Dr Turnbull) thought ho was not wrong in saying tbat tho centres of population had contributed directly to tho revenues of tho province, at leaat onethird of what the land revenue of tho provinco bad ever dono. The principle observed in tho management of • the land fund waa, that a large proportion of the land fund ahould go back to the land, but nobody ever heard it proposed that the large amount of rovonuo derived from the taxation of tho peoplo ahould go back to tho people, to enable thorn to carry out local and necessary improvements. It was necessary that Chriatchurch and other municipalities ahould bo dealt with most; liberally in tbia matter, in order thafc they might be placed in a position to diminiah the sickness and mortality that prevailed. (Hear, hear.) To be consistent and juat, he contended fchat tho Houae ought to decide thafc a considerable portion of the revenue derived from another source than tho land fund, ahould go back to tbat source, namely, to the centres of the population. Tbia waa what fche centres of population not only told the Houae, but what they intended asserting again and again throughout tho colony. He did nofc intend to go further into the matter ; but, boforo sitting down, ho should like to protest againat tho proposal of the preaent Government to increase the charges on imports and not tho exports, which were principally wool and grain. In conclusion, ho wished to say that ifc was hia intention to exercise a moat zealous watch over the proceedings of the present Government, and he hoped they would be aa useful to the country as tho late Government had been. (Cheers.) Mr Williams thought tliat the Government wore.quite right in having brought down the Estimates aa thoy had done, showing the wholo of tho re-votes. He had been, until lately under the impression that tbero waa somo £36.9,000 balance to the credit of the

province, and ho had voted against fcho BiU brought in by fcho lato Govornmont ior the Municipalities on tho ground *thafc money would bo availablo for a B«f\** aid. . Ho had nofc hoard any promises to tho effect thafc a largo voto for Chrißtohuroh would bo proposed. The lato Presidont of fcho Exeoufcivo had stated that thoro was anothor lottor referring to tho Muaoum question which did not appear in tho papors, but in tho statomoot of his hon friend, tho Provincial Seoretary, it was distinctly stated "that tho Govornmont advised tho aoooptanoo of the tenders of Messrs England and Taifc." The missing letter was simply fcho lottor enclosing fcho minuto of fcho Govornmont. Tho lato Government dolayod ontoring into any oontraot until tho laflfc day of tho finanoial yoar, although, praotical. y, tho voto had thon lapaod, ao it oould nofc bo paid without a ro-voto. Thafc was oloar by fcho Audifc Act. Tho oontraofc was nofc onfcorod infco by tho Govornmont, as a letter from Messrs England, Bros., etated fchat tho contraofc was onfcorod into with the Board of Govornors on April 22, Tho Govornmont; ahould nofc havo onfcorod infco any positive ogroomenfc for the expenditure of the monoy, under the oiroumstances of tho provinco, aa thoy could not bo euro that; tho Oouncil would ro-voto tho money; indood fcho Oounoil would oertainly nofc havo vofcod fcho monoy if ifc woro froo. If fcho monoy was not; votod now, thoro would havo to bo compensation paid. Tho hon membor for Christohurch had said thafc tho Govornmont; wore guilfcy of repudiation, bufc fchoro waa really nothing of tho kind. Tho Government only aßkod tho Oounoil nofc to voto fcho monoy, bufc fco leave ifc fco fche Government to Bottle tho mattor with tho contractors and fche Board of Govornors. Tho proposed extension to tho Museum would only cost; £1000 lobb fchan fcho Normal sohool, so fchafc hon memboro might havo somo idea of fcho building whioh was asked for.. Ifc was simply a waste of monoy, espooialiy in faoe of the faot fchafc suoh largo sums wore urgently roquirod for publio works. Was ifc beoauflo fchoro woro largo sums in the ohest, that tho hon member lately at tho head of tho Executive had ohangod his opinions. Ho remembered woll whon tho hon mombor proposod that fcho institution should be banded ovor to a ourator at £350 a-yoar. Thafc was the hon gontloman as a rotronoher. (Hear, hoar.) Afc Akaroa, fche hon gentleman told his conetitvtenta thafc ifc was a timo to sond prudent mon fco represent them. How had tho hon membor carried out his viows a_ to ooonomy P Tho hon mombor soomod to forgefc tho great uncertainty whioh existed at all times as to fcho land fund. It was simply ordinary prudence on fcho part; of fche Govornmont to ondoavour to koop the expenditure within limits. Mr Jollih said thafc if any polioy was to bo attributed to tho present Government, ib was a polioy of alarm. The whole drifb of the Treasurer's Statement; was that tho provinco was in a bad state ; but ho did not fchink fchafc ife was in a worse condition than ifc was last; year. Thero was a balance in hand of £351,000, or, after paying for everything that •was due, of £125,000. Thafc was nofc anything to frighten fchom as fco^fchoir financial position. Th 0 estimated receipts amounted in all fco nearly a million of money, whioh was proposed to bo appropriated. Last year fche votofl wero ovor a million, and showed a balanoo of £700,000. Tho lato Govornmont diad taken every oaro in rogard to carrying out works, nofc fco push fchom on too fast;, whioh would have affected fcho labour market injuriously. Tho Statement of fcho Finances for 1874-75 showed an apparent dofioifc of £170,000, but whon a caroful examination has made it, would bo found that fchoro was actually only a dofloionoy of £30,000, owing to tho dooroaflo of tho sale of land. Tho amount of £100,000 .for Harbour Works Loan had nofc boon rSoived, bu^ifc was still an asset. Ifc might have boon raised by tho lato Government;, and had ifc boon, ifc would have appoarod on tho credit eide, bufc tho Govermonfc thought ifc was nofc wiso to raiso fcho loan, bo long as thoro woro ample funds in the Bask. (Hoar, Hear.) Tho £22,000 for Interest and Sinking Fund waa still an asset;, and credit; was taken for it for this year. Then again, £9682 had boon roooivod for Juno land aales abovo what waa ostimatod, ' but it did not oomo into tho receipts for tho nino months ending 31st Maroh last. Between £9000 and £10,000 was owing to tho railways on tho lat April, but ifc did nofc appear as an asset;. Mr Mabkkll— lfc is included.

Mr Joiiiiß — That dooroasod tho debit balanco very considerably, and mado a total deficiency of about £30,000. Tho land sales wero vory difficult; to estimate with any degree of acouraoy, and tho lato Government last year woro guided by whafc was boing received. Thoy woro in about; tho ' samo position now as to reoeipts as thoy wero last yoar, and thero was no oocasion for tho assertion that tho province was in a bad state. It had beon tho practice to tako votes for much largor Bums than woro likoly to bo bo roooivod, and fcho Oounoil had regularly adopted fche systom. Complaints had boon mado as to fcho dolay of fcho Government in carrying out worke, tho wator Bupply and tho Musoum for example, but ifc mußt bo romomborod fchafc a greafc deal of preliminary work had to bo dono, suohas procuring enginoors, arohifceofca, <&o. As to fcho Charitable Aid, it was said fchafc ifc was nofc properly administered. (Hear, hoar.) Ho jnust say thafc whilo ho waa in oflico, ifc had boon mosfc carefully looked infco, and no monoy was paid without; full inquiry. Tho Oharitablo Aid officer had boen vory offioiont. It waß possible fchat if tho monoy woro loft to private distribution it would bo bottor administered. fNo, no.) Thoy must; boar in mind thafc Govornmont aid stopped in whoro private bonovolonco ended. Tho statomonfc of tho Govornmont that; the Rofugo must bo vostod in trustees beforo any monoy would bo givon, would militate against tho success of tho institution, and ifc would bo fcho camo thing with the Charitable Aid. (Hoar, hoar.) Supposo that tho publio rofusod to tako up fcho question s what; then P Tho hon mombor for Soadown had said fchafc fcho host of tho land was sold. He had hoard that, ovor and over again for tho last ton yeara. As tho roads wero constructed tho land whioh was formerly moro remote would bo taken up. Tho estimate of tho Govornmont as fco receipts for land rovonuo, was a fair ono. Tho lato Govornmont hod boon vory careful in the aotion thoy had takon as to tho oontracfc for fche Musoum. They had nofc acted hastily. Tho contract was accoptod on March 31 by fche Government, and ho doubtod if tho prosont Govornmont woro awaro of tho existence of that; lottor.

Mr Maskkm*,.— Wo could not find it, but havo found ifc sinoo.

Mr Jom-ie.— Tho statements of tho Provinoial Secretary and Secretary for Publio Works woro vory fair aa a whole. Tho Scoretaw- for Public Works had said tbat £14,003

woro kopt baok from Road Boards and givon to tho Musoum. That was not; a fair way fco pufc ifc. Tho Govornmont; could nofc givo fcho Road Boards moro monoy as ib had nob aocruod from land salos, bufc fchafc was no reason why monoy should nofc bo givon to fcho Musoum. The Government; had takon oaro to koop on tho Estimatos all tho votes for tho southorn districts, bufc had loffc out; norfchorn votes. Tho influonoo of fcho hon mombor for Waimato in tho Govornmont; appoarod fco bo vory oonßidorablo, judging from fcho state of tho Efltimatos. (Hoar, hoar).

Mr Buoklk-jt said that ho oould nofc agroo with fcho remarks of fcho hon mombor for Hoafchcofco. Tho Govornmont had plaood fcho Estimates boforo tho Houso in a vory fair mannor, and woro nofc throwing thorn on tho Oounoil. Ib must bo romomborod fchafc thoy had had a vory shorfc fcimo in whioh fco aequiro information. Again, if tho lato Govornmont oonsidorod tho £15,000 duo to Road Boards as tho hon mombor had said thoy did, why did thoy sond such a oiroular as thoy had dono P Ho woll romomborod tho timo somo yoars ago whon tho hon membor for Selwyn complained bitterly thafc tho thon Govornmont had not paid tho Road Boards, although fchoro was an overdraft of £86,0C0, yofc, with a sum of £350,000 in tho Treasury, tho hon mombor rofusod to pay thafc amall sum of £15,CC0 fco fcho Road Boards. Thohon mombor had Baid fchafcfcho votes last yoar wero largoly inoroasod by sums being plaood on tho Supplementary Efltimatos for tho Southern districts, but that ifc was understood thoso amounts would not bo oxpondod if thoro was no monoy. Thafc was nofc fcho understanding at the timo. Tho amounts woro givon as boing justly duo to tho South. Tho hon mombor had said thafc tho monoy would not bo expended if tho rovonuo fell off, bufc whon ho brought; down thoso Eetimatoflfor the oxpondituro of £764,000, ho said that ho was happy to say fchat; his hon. colleague had assured him fchafc ho could find ample funds to meet fchoso votos. Tho groator pari; of fchoso amounts woro again proposed to bo votod. Tho hon. mombor dcoiared that fchoro was no dofioifc, bufc ho ohailongod him fco show fchafc afc fcho ond of Maroh, 1876, fchey should havo any surplus, unless tho land sales inoreasod. (Hear, hear.) Tho hon. mombor for Heathooto was surprised at tho Govornmont losing sight of tho monoy to bo mado by tho salo of tho railways. But ho must bo awaro thafc the Bill was rojoofcod bya considerable majority, and ifc was nofc likely thafc ifc would bo oarried out. The hon mombor also roforrod to tho facfc, that; some correspondence had takon plaoo with rospeot to tho valuation of tho railways. The matter was undor the consideration of tho Govornmont, bufc ifc was a quostion whotbor it would not bo hotter to leavo things as thoy woro, and not havo any valuation at all. Ho was afraid if tho lato Government depended upon tho amount to bo rocoived for salo of the railways as an asset, ho would not roaliso muoh undor thafc head. Thoro was no doubt that tho land revenue was likely to deoroaso to a considerable oxtont. He could nofc agroo wifch fcho Statement, thoro had not boon any extravagance on fcho part; of fcho lafce Government ; on fche contrary, fcho monoy had beon soafcfcorod broadcast, and with no regard for economy. As to his influonoo in tho prosont Government, ho might state thafc fchero woro no now vofcOß for fche Southern districts 5 all tho amounts for works in thafc part of tho provinco, boing ro-votos. Mr Webb aaid ho was sorry to havo hoard fcho romarks fchafc woro mado by fcho twO hon mombors of tho Houbo thafc ovoning, wifch roapoofc fco tho Museum, Ho considered that fchoao romarks woro altogether uncallod for, booauso thoy wore told from all quarters thafc fcho institution in quostion was conduotod mosfc ably and satisfactorily by its Dirootor. Thero was no doubt in his mind fchafc fcho Jafco Govornmont; aoooptod tho tondora for additions fco fcho Musoum, and ho thought; that thoir successors in offico woro bound, morally if not logally, to oarry out tho arrangement; fchafc had boon ontorod into. Ho hopod that the amount would bo placed on tho Estimatos again. Ho was sorry to obaorvo a fooling outsido to curtail tho ostabliflhmonfcs for fcho higher branohes of oduoation. Pooplo coming to this country no doubt askod tho question, woro institutions in oxistonco whoro thoir families could be educated P Whafc thoy should ondoavour to do horo was, to provido snoh a class of oduoation as would rondor ifc unnecessary fchafc paronts should havo to sond their ohildron to tho old country, in ordor to roooivo a suporior oduoation. Tho quostion of turning tho Normal Sohool into a Oollogo roquirod a groafc deal of consideration. If tho Govornmont oonvortod it into a Oollogo, thoy would havo to make suitablo provision for tho ohildron of tho West Ohristohuroh district. Ho hopod to boo provision mado for tho erection of a railway station afc Ohrisfcohuroh. If thoro was ono building moro noodod than anothor ifc woi a suitablo railway station at Ohrisfcohuroh. Ho thought alao that; tho quostion of tho advisability of inoreasing tho tolls or ofchorwiao on tho Lyttolfcon and Ohristohuroh Railway, should roooivo tho oiroful attontion of fcho Houso. Ho should havo likod to heav tho Govornmont stato what was tho proposed apportionment of tho grant to Municipalities and Road Boards, showing how muoh would como to Municipalities, whose olaims upon fcho liberality of fcho Houso woro vory largo and pressing. Unless Municipalities obtained substantial grants it would bo porfootly impossible for thorn to carry outworks tha'?' requirod to bo dono. In Lyttelton, largo drainage works wero noodod, but fchoso oould not; bo carried out unless some assisfcanoo was obtained from tho Counoil.

Mr Wai_k.hr, referring to romarks mado by tho hon mombor for Lyttelton, said ho had no doubt; that; education in this province would bo oarriod out as ifc had boon eommonoed. Ho had felt Bomo disappointment, in oommon with othor hon mombors, that cortain works fchat; woro confcomplatod in fcho outlying distriots did not appear on tho prosont Estimatos. Ho thought tho Malvorn wator supply should not bo allowod to drop, oapooially aftor a good deal of oxponso had boon gsno to in carrying out tho nocoßßary surveys, &o. Mr HiaaiNS movod tho adjournmonb of tho donate until noxt day. Tho motion was agrocd to. DIVERSION 01? EOAM SrBOIAIi ORDINANCE, vo. 4, 1875. This bill was road a sooond timo, and ordorod to bo committod prcsontly. REBEEVE 93A ORDINANCE^ This bill was road a second fcimo, and ordorod fco bo committod prosontly. EDUCATION ORDINANCE, 1875. Tho sooond roading was mado an Ordor of tho day for Thursday. THIRD READINO. Tho Diversion of Roads Special Ordinanoo, No. 1, 1876, was road a tlurd timo and passed. Notiooß of motion having boon givon, the House adjourned until next day, at 5 p.w,