MR MONTGOMERY AT AKAROA.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 2034, 14 September 1874, Page 2

MR MONTGOMERY AT AKAROA.

* Mr Montgomery, the representative of thiß district in the General Assembly, met the electors at the Town Hall, Akaroa, at eight o'clock on Satuvday evening last. There wa* a large attendance, the room being filled. His Honor the Superintendent occupied a seat on the platform. On the motion of Mr Garwood, the chair was taken by Mr Stephen Watkins. The Chairman Baid they were all aware of the object for which they were assembled that evening, namely, to hear an address from their representative in the General Assembly on questions of publio importance. He had no doubt thafc fchey would give Mr Montgomery a kind reception, and would listen attentively to what he had to Bay. Mr Montgomery was received with loud cheers on coming forward to address the meeting. He said — Mr Chairman and gentlemen, it is little more than a month sines 1 had the pleasure of addressing you, and at that time you renewed your confidence in me, which was extremely gratifying. Since then I have been in my place in the General Assembly, and matters of euch large importance to the colony, and this diatrict as a part of the people of the colony, have taken place there, that I deem it is only my duty to come before my constituents, in order to explain what I have done — what action I have taken in the matter ; in fact, to give my opinions as to what I think is likely fco happen, and, if I possibly can, throw forth a few ideaa which may be food for discussion, and may bring about a fixity of thought, which I think we should all endeavour to arrive at in this colony afc this present time. The great question thafc naturally occupies the publio mind is the abolition of the provinces of the North Island and those of the Soufch ; bufc before going into thafc question I wish to touch upon a matter referred to by me when I last addressed you here. It is a matter which is of local interest, it is true, yet ifc is one in which I have taken same part in Wellington, and „ consequently one that you should kno w'thie part I took respecting it. I said when I was last here that Mr Yogel, in his financial- -statement h&d declared that the time had ' come when he could r safely take over the whole of the main lines of the colony and relieve the provinces from paying interest and Sinking fund, and that what stood in his way to effecting this end was a piece of one of the main lines —that between Winton and the Bluff ia Southland, and the Lj ttelton and Selwyn line in the province of Canterbury. The Provincial Council in Otago had taken action in this matter, , and recommended the sale of their portion of the line ; and the Government, aoting upon the wish of the Provincial Council of that province determined to buy that portion of the line, and to give to the {>eople of, Otago the ; money to make branch ines of railway. Well, it seemed to me, as a resident in this province, and as your representative in the Colonial Legislature, that it would be advisable the same course should be pursued with regard to Canterbury. There is the line between Lyttelton and the Selwyn, which has been made partly out of borrowed money and partly out of the provincial land fund. The value of- that line, with the rolling stook, stations, See., I estimate at from £700,000 to a million. Now, as the General Government has taken over, and now holds the lines in the North Island and intends to relieve those provinces of the payment of interest and sinking fund — and ifc is quite sure they must relieve them of interest and sinking fund in the North Island, for the simple reason that fchey cannot pay it. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) I thought ifc inadvisable that Canterbury should be deprived of like privileges and the making of its branoh railways in various directions. I accordingly took action in the matter, and I believe that the action I took had the entire concurrence of the Provincial Government. The result of that action was, that I got inserted in the Railway Act which the General Government were bringing in, a clause empowering fche Government to negotiate for the purchase of that portion of the line from Lyttelton to Selwyn. I thought, that if the Government bought thafc line, and,; put Canterbury in the same position as the rest of the colony in this respect, we should have the money afc disposal fco make our branch lines of railway. I need hardly point out to you that these branch railways would be a very valuable means of communication to this district, north and south, as fchey would be feeders fco the main line, and would bring into immediate communication several outlying districts which are at present cut out from the centre of the province. That was my view of the matter, as your representative. This clause passed the Lower House without any objection whatever, but the members of fche Upper House, when fche clause was referred to them, threw it out, principally, I think, on the ground thafc it was inexpedient to increase the debt of the colony for the purpose of buying theße provincial lines of railway : and ifc came to this — that some of them thought Canterbury so rich, that to give her more money was not advisable. As I said before, the clause was thrown out ; and when the Government introduced a new bill, with those two clauses for the purchase of the Winton and Bluff and the Lyttelton and Selwyn lines struck out, the Premier expressed his great regret that these clauses were thrown out, and pledged his Government as strongly as any man could possibly pledge it, that he would in the meantime negociate for the purchase of both these lines, and would bring in a bill next session to give effect fco that purchase. (Cheers.) Ifc is not always a very nice thing for a man to be quoting himself, but I am bound, as your representative, to tell you the action I took, and ifc is for you to decide whether thafc action was wise or nofc. I wished to move a resolution, again affirming the desirability of purchasing these lines, but the Premier stated to me privately, and I may say publicly a3 well, thafc after fche emphatic expression on fche part of fche Government, it was unnecessary that I should press fche resolution, and I therefore withdrew it, as I considered there was no necessity for irritating a gentleman, who, I am sure, was sincere in his desire to bring about; that which would be advantageous fco Canterbury. This, as I said before, is a matter more of local interest to Canterbury.

I come now to the question of fche abolition of the provinces. I think we all ma}' remember tbat it was understood at the beginning of the session that it was to be a very short one, and that no questions of a novel kind would bo brought forward. We never thought for a moment thafc Buch a large question as a change of the Constitution would be brought before the House ; but I think thafc if we regard fche utterances of tbe Premier — fche utterances only of the last few days — and regard the whole tenour of his life, and his declarations that he would uphold Provincial institutions, I fchiak we shall come to fche conclusion that he should be fche last man whom we should expect such a change to come from, without at all events putting ifc before the people first. (Cheers). I fear I shall have to trespass somewhat on your time, bufc as fche matter is one of such transcendant i importance, I think you will forgive me for reading to you some of the utterances of the Premier. These utterances are very clear and emphatic, and the ideas of fche Premier are put forth in fewer words than I should be able fco convey those ideas to you, if I endeavoured to give from memory that which he said. You may remember thafc in fche year 1870, Mr Yogel initiated his greafc scheme of pablic works and immigration, and put before the country a very elaborate and carefully prepared statement, showing greafc ability, and, I think, as much lucidity as any public document I ever read. Now, if there is one thing we can depend upon in a constitutional country respecting facts more than another, it is the financial statement, because there you have a man standing up and holding in hie hand, a statement of the business and position of the country, and every word of that Bhould be carefully weighed, because no such utterance can be put forth by a man in fche position of Premier without telling with a considerable effect on the country, whether for good or evil. In putting forth this statement, Mr Yogel said: " In justice to the provinces, and to my own opinions, I must say that I think in relation to provincial institutions, we are apt to mistake cause for effect. I admit that the pro vincial divisions of the colony make ifc a work of enormons difficulty to come down wifch any proposals for a comprehensive scheme of colonisation. But to suppose that thos9 divisions are consequent upon the pelitical institutions of the provinces is, as I have said, to confound causes with effect. Provincialism, as ifc is "called, is consequent upon, and nofc the cause of fche manner in whioh the country was settled. Ifc was an ambitious effort to attempt to settle the colony from so many points, but the effort was made, fche work waa effected, and its consequences survive. You have to deal with a number of different communities. Provincialism represents not only their different ideas on fche different circumstances in which they are placed, but ifc represents also their strong pretests against an indiscriminate, precipitate, and arbitrary fusion. If we were dealing with colonies having each only one metropolitan centre, we should propose to apply a new colonising scheme gradually commencing from one point, but to do so in New Zealand would involve gross injustice, not because of the political organisation of the provinces, but because. those provinces contain different communities composed of men who have built up the provincial edifice on the clear understanding thafc something in the nabure of proprietary rights attached to it. p We may undervalue local distinctions, but why should the inhabitants of one province submit to a lengthened period of depression, whilst the means they partly contribute are devoted to consolidating the prosperity of another province." Now, gentlemen, as I said, there are no words which I could make use of that could have put the case of provincialism stronger than the hon gentleman put it himself. That was in 1870. In 1873, when speaking of provincial loans for public woi'ks, Mr Yogel gave utterance to these words* which I shall read to you, as follows : — *i "Bufc the colony cannofc do justice fco such works. Neither my colleagues nor myself can be considered partisans of either centralism or provinoialism. . I confess myself to have frequently wavered in opinion, appalled by the difficulty, on the one hand, of preventing fche , provinces from destroying the necessa^ power of colonial action, and on fche other, cf'' preventing the centralising tendency fron?! destroying the usefulness of local governing I bodies without supplying or being able t<fi supply their place. The polioy lam about to l elaborate I describe as the result of a 6eaTfcnj| afler equilibrium— or as nearly a state of^ equilibrium as is possible amidst the many varying circumstances and contending interests with which we have to deal. Broadly, we want the colony to take charge of colonial works ; the provinces to take charge of local works. Broadly, also, we class main railways and immigration as amongst colonial works ; other works necessary for the settlement of the country we class amongst the local. We do not say tbat there will not, from time to time, come before us for consideration works the classification of which will be difficult. If I am aaked why the colony cannot take charge of fcb.9 whole of these works, I reply that we must no longer palter with a greafc question. Because of our disinclination to come to a decision, the past has been a series of compromises, and the Assembly has at times usurped provincial functions without the requisite knowledge how to exercise them. If the Assembly means to do the work of the provinces, then the provinces should be abolished, the waste of labour on provincial legislation be saved, and provision be made for a thorough system of colonial government. I express the opinion that the legislative work of the provinces and of the colony, if performed by one body of men, would necessitate the Bitting of Parliament for at least ten months out of the twelve. I shall be told thafc the parliamentary work of the Empire itself occupies but a small portion of fche year. Granted, bufc fche circumstan es are different. In a country wifch hundreds of years of history, rapid legislation is rarely necessary, and generally »ujdesirable. A young country requires, as d o y oaqg children,more care and looking after. The argument that an old and wealthy country requires proportionately more parliamentary attention than a young and comparatively poor one, would be fairly paralleled by the assertion that infants might feed, and wash, and be mindful of. themselves — thafc the attention of nurses should be devoted to adults. But where aro we to find, in the colony, men to whom its legislation should be confided, who are willing fco give ten months in the year to the task ? We find with difficulty men to whom ambition of fche power fco be useful, and of the position of a Minister, is inducement sufficient to lead them to consent to fche personal sacrifices the position entails ; bufc fco be simply members of Parliament does nofc offer adequate temptation to reconcile men to entirely relinquishing their occupations, and we have not in fche country a sufficient number of leisured men on whom to rely for

its legislation. Therefore, if a strictly colonial system were fche best, it could not be satisfactorily carried out ; but lam not sure ifc is fche best. Even in the United Kingdom, thoughtful men begin to see the necessity of a system of government intermediate between fche central and the purely municipal ; or, in other words, of strengthening the system of county government. Iv the colonies, I think, the want of provinces has shown itself, and to supply it Road Districts are becoming powerful by some such process as that by which, according to Darwin, man has developed from a lower type. Road Boards, by the process ef natural selection and the survival of the fittest develop into shires, and shires may develop, indeed are developing, into provinces. I "may be told thafc man's perfection arises from his r slow development. Grant that in our case fche highest form of local government has been too rapidly developed and is full of imperfections j „ surely it is better now to work from the vantage ground obtained, than to endeavour to ' throw back our local system, in order that it may attain a higher form more slowly. But my illustration would do me injustice if it be held to indicate that I disapprove of Road Districts or wish to see them abolished. On fche contrary, I want to see them permanent, and I believe that permanency can be better established by an intermediate form of govern- , ment to work with them and over them, thau by starting them on a career of ambition to ' supersede themselves by the attainment of a higher and different form of power. Ih the . system of diffusion which is to make the whole colony prosperous, Road Boards have a most useful part to play, and it would be aa improper to allow them to usurp Z provincial power, as to alloW the pro- .C vinces to usurp coionial power." Those are the utterances of the Premier in 1873. I will read you a short extract from what he said in 1874 ; that is, only six weeks ; ago. In bringing down his financial state-: ment, he said : — " The ease of the provinces is! '. nofc, however, dealt with by merely exceptional . advances for . public works. There are threeprovinces whioh labour under the great disadvantage of contributing largely to the colonial revenue without enjoying an adequate ' provincial revenue for loaal purposes. The : provinces which enjoy.large revenues feel no; ■ difficulty in contributing to the .colonial . revenue; for whilst they make their contributions, fchey enjoy local expenditure out of ' their own revenue. But the case of , some . provinces is simply constant contribution— a ? constant disheartening tendency to the result ■ so familiarly explained by the slaughter of the Y bird which lays the golden egg. As a mere matter of policy, it is wise, in the midst of the immense increase of the colonial revenue, to specially remember some of the provinces which contribute ifc, and which are at present afc' a greafc disadvantage aa compared with ; others. It iB not wise fco let parts of the colony languish uuder a sense of wrongto allow them to feel they are still becalmed, whilst the favouring breeze removes from their, sight the vessels originally becalmed with them." : I shall not read many more extracts, but as. ifc. is a large publio question it is necessary that it should be clearly put before the publio." He J goes on to say : — "The condition of the three k provinces— of Auckland, Westland, and. Nei? ; son— as compared with the other provinces, is >; lamentable, and requires assistance from the -.-, surpluß of the Consolidated. Revenue. Auck-r Z land's caso is by far the worst. It will take, , that province some years to work itself round, v and to enjoy the future whicli I firmly believe is still before it. Westland deserves tauoli sympathy. Weighted with a great public • debt, its Government, eagerly anxious to de- -■ ; velop it, find themselves hampered in every, . direction. Westland has proved a mine of wealth to the colony. The west coast of Nelson is somewhat similarly placed : Nelson : will, however, now have the means; as at'- 1 appears its rulers haye the inclination to use those means, to become a prosperous pro-* vince. These considerations impel us to recom- ■ mend that out of the year's surplus a speoial allowance, in addition to thafc already provided by the scale of Capitation Allowances, be made '• ' to Auckland, Wesfcland,and Nelson, of £25,000" to the first, £10,000 to the second, and £50C0 fco the third. When honourable members,^ study fche whole of the circumstances, they V will nofc, I think, grudge the proposed aid.'**-:', Now, gentlemen, you will perceive that the* Premier was speaking of the provinces. It did not appear then that the thought, had crossed his' mind of the abolition of the - provinces, of the North Island.; Suoh; I s&y, !-. did not appear from the statement that he L made some ten days after the Parliament assembled. There waß nothing in that statement to give any person the idea that he had thought of ifc even, until the question of- thoZ" Forests Bill came up. I daresay you remember - what were some of the provisions of that : Forests Bill. One of the provisions of that measure was to take three per cent, of the land and devote it to fche colonial planting of forests. Well, I endeavoured while here before to show that three per cent, of the land would amount to something like 250,000 or 260,000 acres, and that it would take a very much '*' larger sum than what the minister proposed to plant a tenth portion of it without taking , a considerable portion of the land fund. I was not singular in my opinion. The bill was opposed generally throughout the House. It waß opposed by hon members who felt that the land fund was a sacred trust in their hands, and one not lightly to be tampered with. Many hon membera opposed it, but the person above all others who spoke most forcibly on the subject, who spoke so strongly on the matter that I think it roused the ire of the Premier, was Mr Fitzherbert. He spoke in such a manner aB was — I will not say calculated, but as a matter of fact, did (there is no doubt about it) — sting the Premier to the quick, and that was the first time the words "abolish the provinces" crossed his lips, as far as we know anything about ifc. In his reply to Mr Fitzherbert's speech, the Premier, instead of confining himself to; to Forests Bill, made a very severe attack upon the provincial authorities of Wellington. He especially, singled out Mr Fitzherbert, and, Z. likening him to a tree which he said was neither sightly nor savoury, called him the blue gum of New Zealand. (Laughter.) Personally, he spoke perhaps as strongly as one man could speak of another. Perhaps there was reason for it, because there was a bitter feud existing between these two able men, or perhaps ifc might be better characterised as an interchange of private regards, in which the one did nofc manifest much tender feeling for the other. (Laughter.) Mr Yogel then said for the first time that fche provinces should be abolished which stood in fche way. I found fault wifch that in the House, and other people characterised Mr Vogel's declaration as a hasty opinion respecting a large constitutional matter, which should not have fallen from the Premier so lightly. A day or two after that — I was not in Wellington at the time — what is termed a caucus meeting was held. Forty-six members of' *

UM'JI-' ««* .-■■-■—- '. ' ■ ■■<■--■■- -L I I . I'l the Houso attended thafc meeting, nnd urjjts' l Mr Yogel to bring down certain resolutions to the House. At all events, he did bring down resolutions, the main features of which were the abolition of the provinces of the North Island, the maintenance of the Middle Island land fund, and the retention of the seat of government at Wellington. When that came on for discussion many hon members disapproved of the House being pledged to abolish the provinces without their constituents being consulted; and Mr Fitzherbert moved that it was expedient, before legislation should take place upon this large subject, the various constituencies of the colony should be consulted. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) That was carried against him by an overwhelming majority. Then Mr Swanson moved that the bill should be circulated at least two ■ months before next session of the General Assembly, in order that the people of the country might; express an opinion respecting the provisions of the matter. (Cheers.) That was also refused by a large majority, and, the position of affairs is this — that the House has pledged itself to abolish the North Island provinces without having any conception l whatever of the institutions i which are to take the place of those thafc are abolished ; and it is jusfc possible — it is likely, as far aB I can see, judging from tbe temper of the Hbuse^-that this great change will take place next session without the people being Consulted at all. When I speak of consulting fchem, 1 do not mean their representatives merely coming before them as I do before you fco-nighfc. What Ido mean is the dissolving of the House and hon. members going to their constituents on the question of what kind of institutions were to supersede those already in existence, or, in other words, provincialism. I say let the voice of the people be beard, and on that being done, let legislation take place. (Loud cheers.) It is right that I should state what I said on the subject, as it is then open fco my constituents to agree with it : br find fault with it as their opinion may direct them. (Hear, hear.) I said tbat I objected to this change, as being a surprise to the country ; that I objected especially to asking the House to pledge itself fco abolish provincial institutions without stating what the Government intended to put in their place; and I especially objected — and hold that opinion still and will always hold it — that no great constitutional change should take place without the people from whom hon. members derived their power being consulted in.the matter. (Loud cheers.) To say that a parliament summoned for totally different purposes, in the last session bufc one of ifca life should legislate and pass an Acfc altering the whole constitution of the country, is nothing more nor less than treason to the people who sent them there ; and if I thought that by going up fco that House and voting against Bach a - measure, I was in any way inßtrumerital in preventing such an innovation of the rights' of the people, I say that I have done at least one good thing in my life. (Hear, hear.) ' As I go on, I shall say a. few words upon tbe land question, because with this great change " your land fund is very intimately connected. The Premier said there that he would bring in a bill to make the land fund quite secure. Many hon memberß of the House, myself among the number, said — «We dba'fc want legislation to secure tbat whioh was our right by previous legislation ;" and I think it will not be uninteresting to you to ascertain what is the actual position of what we have heard of as the Compact of 1856, and" therefore 1 will read an extract from that compact. I will read to you that fortiOn of the Aot of 1856 Bottling the land und of the provinces, and after that you will see that any legislation on the land fund is simply an act of supero rogation. The compact of 1856 is embodied in the following resolutions passed by the House of Representatives on July 2, 1856 : — ." That/ in accordance with a former resolution of this House, the province of Auckland be relieved retrospectively, as well as prospectively, from the New Zealand Company's debt ; and that, after payment of the sum due to the Company on the Sth of April, 1857, the balance of the loan of £200,000 be made applicable to that purpose, leaving any deficiency" or excess to be adjusted when the same' be ascertained ; the pi'ovince of Auckland, "oh its part, bearing the sum of £911 8s 6d, under the Land Claimants Ordinance, New Ulster, as a debt incurred for its exclusive advantage. That this House is of opinion that the administration of the waste landß of eaoh province should be transferred to the Provincial Government of such province, and the land revenue thereof made provincial revenue subject to the following charges : — The province of Nelson to be subject to a oharge of £66,666 13s 4d, fco bear interest afc the rate of four per cent, with a sinking fund of two per cent. The province of Canterbury, to be subject to a charge of £66,666 13s 4d, to bear interest afc fche like rate, with a sinking fund afc fche like rate. The province of Otago, to be subject to a charge of £66,666 18s 4d, to bear interest at the like rate, with a sinking fund at the like rate." There voted for these resolutions — Ayes, 19 — The Colonial Treasurer, Mr Stafford, Mr Hall, Mr Domett, Major Greenwood, Mi Campbell, Mr Lee, Mr Cuff, Mr Travers, Mr Williamson, Mr East, Mr Wells, Mr Taylor, Mr Curtis, Mr Merriman, Mr Ludlam, Mr Carleton, Mr Brittan, the Colonial Secretary. Noes, 10— Captain Cargill, Mr Cargill, Mr Fitzherbert, -Mr Fox, Mr Featherston, Mr Daldy, Mr Henderson, Mr Macandrew, Mr Smith, Mr Ward. Thafc waß the compact, or fchafc which we have all heard of as the compact of 1856. Upon that, legislation took place in 1858, and this was the legislation : —" An Act to appropriate the revenue . arising from the disposal of the Waste Lands of the Crown in New Zealand. Be it enacted, &c, clause VII. After and subject to the payments to be made under the provisions hereinbefore contained, all the revenue arising from the disposal of the waste lands of the Crown in the several provinces of the colony shall, in pursuance of warrants to be from time to time granted by the Governor, be paid over by the receivers of land revenue to the respective treasuries of such provinces for fche public usob thereof, subject to the appropriation of the respective Provincial Councils." Now, gentlemen, that was the Aot of 1858. Ifc is by that Act, and by that arrangement that we hold our lands, fchafc we administer our lands, and thafc fche fund derived from them is appropriated to its proper uae, fchafc of making roads and bridges and otherwise settling the country. Now, I think that where there is honesty of purpose remaining in public men you require no further acts than that, because you can make no other aots more explicit; ; and lam quite sure that the Premier has not the slightest intention of violating the spirit or letter of fchafc Act, and in order fchafc justice may be done to him in this matter, I will read to you a few words which he has Baid on the subject. In his speech on the 13th of August last, he

says: — "What is meant, and what it is desired to show, is, that the changeß proposed, and which can only be broadly pointed at in the resolutions, ahould be made without infringing that compact, and that they aro not in any sense inconsislt-i-.t with its maintenance. Therefore, ifc is proposed not only to recognise but to ratify the compact. Any attempt to depart from if would be simply dishonest, and, besides, would be to the last degree impolitic," and lie would be vo party to it. Now, I entirely believe tbat there is not a word he uttered tbat ho did not intend to acfc up to. I believe in his honesty of purpose ; but fche Premier has changed his opinions — from honest conviction I have no doubt — and he has changed his opinions frequently on points quite as important as that. I have read to you from his financial statements what he said in 1870, 1873, and 1874, and now he says, " I will abolish the provinces in fche North Island ; and I say thafc wifch fche very besfc intentions that a man can have, if he is so facile for change. I dread what those opinions will lead to, because fche Premier is one who cannot control circumstances always ; he has Bhown that he can suit himself to circumstances. Now, ifc ia jusfc the dread of this change of conviction — springing from conviction I have no doubt — whioh alarms me, because if a man can bring down a resolution to change the whole constitution of the country a few days after he has declared, in his financial statement that he has no intention to make any change, I say he may find it necessary to change his convictions respecting the land fund, as he did respecting the provinces. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) He might find it necessary to do so, because when a man lives in ao atmosphere of opinion, he is infected by that atmosphere, and there are plenty about him who do and will counsel such and such a thing fco be done. May nofc fche interests of the colony oblige him to make Buch a change ? (Hear, hear.) I think we all know how rapidly the colony is going into debt. Afc fche commencement of this session the outstanding liabilities for which debentures were afloat, were something like twelve millions and a half. The amount of the borrowing power which was nofc exercised was between two and three millions, and in the House the other day Mr Yogel asked for an extension of the borrowing power to four millions, making the indebtedness of the country, when the borrowing powers are exercised, £18,567,300. Now, why I dread the future somewhat is this. When the Premier brought in his Railway Loan Bill to borrow four millions, no person, with the exception of Mr Gillies, said scarcely anything on the question. What he said*, though short, was very well to the purpose. He said thafc fche loans were hurrying on afc auch a pace fchafc he dreaded fche result, bufc the House voted the four millions almost wifchoi% discussion. I have heard men speaking as to what will be the result when these public works are^ finished. I have heard some say that the in-" debtedness of the colony will be twenty millions, others twenty-five, and some Bay — " Oh, no ; thirty thousand will not cover it if tho borrowing iB net checked." If we go on borrowing, ifc is clear that in a colony of 300,000 people, a debt of 18i millions must press severely on us, and may tax the very utmost powers of fche people. (Hear, hear, and cheers). Well, gentlemen, I made a little calculation with respect to this matter. I also got a gentleman who is conversant with colonial and provincial finance to examine this matter with me, and I will put before you a few figures which will demonstrate how it is I arrive at the conclusion I have already intimated, leaving it afterwards for you to judge whether there may not be very great and grave cause for alarm. The customs and stamp duties, which form fche principal amount in the Consolidated Revenue last year, produced, for the whole colony, £1,364,237 15s lOd, and ifc will be, perhaps, quite as intelligible to you, and would answer quite as good a purpose, if I pointed out to you how this affects the province of Canterbury ; and Canterbury being a fifth part of fche whole colony, we can judge how ifc would affect the colony. Making due allowance for the duty paid in Otago and Wellington for goods afterwards shipped to Canterbury, I find that the amount paid into the Treasury by Canterbury amounts to £280,000; and £280,000 from 300,000 people must, to some extent, tax them. Well, we know what the duties are. We know they are as high as they can be without producing smuggling. We know what tbe Customs duties are, and lam going to ask you, by-and-by, how any new tax that you are going to impose will affeofc property. In the meantime, I wish to bring under your notice this fact in relation to property, I have gone over this matter very carefully. There are charges under the heads judicial, university, pensions, portion of certain permanent charges, moiety of Stamp Aot paid over to publio works, capitation allowance fco the province of about £40,000, certain postal and telegraph charges. These charges in all amount to upwards of £160,000, which out of the £280,000 went to the General Government for General Government expenditure. Thafc ex{>enditure of course means interest upon the oan of the war debt, and it means interest otherwise generally which is not provided for by the province. It ig nofc the interest itself which the province pays for its railways, but there is that £160,000 paid for what you may say purely General Government expenditure; and if we come to increase the taxation, which we must some day, and before very long do, we will have to consider where we shall find it. I have heard many people Bay, " Oh, we will put on a small property tax." Now, I will endeavour to show you what a property tax would produce in this province. The rateable value of property, from Road Boards and municipal returns, is £512,888; ls in the £ would produce £25,644, so that we would require a rate of something between 6s and 7s in the £ if we had to raise this money by a property tax. Therefore, you will see that if we are going to put on a property tax and an income tax, which we shall have to do if we do not stop the borrowing power. The whole matter iB so very Berious that ib requires your consideration, because ifc bears directly on the question whioh I have endeavoured to put before you. The large landed property men, who have the making of the laws, will object to put on a property or income tax while there is a land fund to be appropriated. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Now, fchafc is the point, gentlemen, I will a*k you if a parliament which does not look very favourably upon the land fund of Canterbury — at least, a parliament which does not look favourably for Canterbury upon the land fund — I ask you if that parliament is likely to consent to tax property and leave the land fund untouched ? I think it would be a wise thing for us to consider to what extent we should allow our land fund to be imperilled, by sanctioning a continuance of these enormous loans. It is with that objeot that I have brought; the

question of loanj before you, because nothing in the world apj.?ars more certain lo me than that' theEe large landholders will refuse to tax themselves, but will take the land f md instead. (Hear, b<'ur, and cheera.) I would wish to point out also, that in the change from provincialism to centralism, there were many who voted for tho continuance, of provincial ism who, when you abolish the provinces of the North Island, will do away with your, compact of 1856 ; and, to prove this, 1 will read to you a few words from the speech of a sincere and honest man — a man of great ability and sincerity of purpose — a man who has paid great attention to public affairs, and his utterances in the House amply testify it. I refer to Mr Swanson. His speech appeared in the papers, and wili bear perusal, not only once, but two or three times. He voted against 'the abolition of the provinces. He said : "If you abolish the provinces, look out; !" He spoke fche mind of a number of faint-hearted men, who will vote though fchey will not speak afc the same time. Mr Swanson said — " I have not the slightest respect for the compact of 1856. I Bay that gentlemen from the South need never in the slightest; degree expect thafc the great majority of . those who come from the North will pay the slightest attention to it. I tell the House thafc if this measure is carried, ifc will be a test question in the province I come from, and we shall be sent down . here fco burst up this compact. Plenty of men will be found who have no scruples about the matter." Further on he sayß—" Let me go back fco where I started from. I believe the whole key to this resolution is cash — that financial difficulties are before lis, bufc if fche present; Government can get hold of the land fund, it will last their reign, and let some future Government look after an income tax or property tax. Whether the people consider that this a proper sacrifice for fchem fco make is for those who have a large fund afc their disposal to think over. I may tell the provinces from which those gentlemen come, that there will be no mercy shewn to them j and if I can judge from the speeches on the other side, there will always be found people either seeking office for. themselves or for their relatives, who will be happy to go in for the abolition of. the provinces of the South as well as of the North. They may depend upon it there will be a compact body in this House, ready fco drive home the wedge, and then this solemn compact of which we hear so much will go up like smoke." That is the utterance of a man who thinks thafc the General Government, by taking too large an amount of the revenue, has ruined his province, and ifc is to be regarded, as I say, because it is the utterance of a sincere-minded man, and he is speaking that which others will feel when the time comes to vote for the abolition of the provinces of the South. I come to another gentleman (Mr Luckie), and I will read to you what he says. He addressed a meeting afc Nelson, afc which 600 people attended, fche other night. He was enthusiastically received, and he said— " Canterbury was rolling in riches, and her exchequer was overflowing. Ifc was said fchafi'' during fche current year she would expend £1,250,000, whilst Westland was starving. It was right that the land which Bhe held as the property of the people of the province should be applied to the benefit of the colony. Canterbury might howl, and Otago might call out, but the day was coming when their revenues should be made colonial revenues." That speech of Mr Luckie appears to have been rapturously applauded. Ifc was applauded by gentlemen who had no land revenue of their own, by gentlemen who sacrificed their land, and I will aßk you if it is likely thoy would have applauded, it if they had known they were going fco incur fche sacrifice which fchey wish to see us make. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I come to thiß land question to show you the actual position. The North Island never had lands on which people could settle advantageously, while there was land in the South on which they could settle to better advantage. The estate of the North Island was never a valuable one for purposes of settlement;. From time to time the General Government has either conquered or bought large tracks of land from the Natives with the money of the colony. For two or three years the General Government has been buying land from the Natives with money appropriated out of loan, for which we and the whole of the colony are responsible. I never begrudged thafc ; -in fact, Ido not know that we could do much better than acquire land in the north for purposes of settlement by means of the extinguishment of the Native title in a satisfactory manner, so that population may be settled in that island. In Nelson they started, as Canterbury started, with come splendid land, but they sold it for a song — for an insignificant price — and the consequence is, that 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, and even 95,000 acres of the finest land in the colony is occupied by sheep, and not by human beings. That is what they did with their land. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Westland is a country wifch a very considerable amount of riches in the shape of gold not developed yet, bufc land for agricultural settlement requires so much to clear it, that it will be many years before the people there can feed themselves. It has got timber upon it, which is a certain amount of wealth, and will afford a considerable share of employment ; but it has no land to sell at £2 an acre on which people can settle profitably. Consequently, there is no fund to make roadß and bridges. Otago and Southland have a large estate. I don't know that their land laws have been the best, but a considerable amount of land has been sold, and thousands of people settled upon it. Good roads have been made, good schools erected, and, generally speaking, the work of colonization has progressed, I think, very fairly. In Canterbury, when we felt ourselves a little hard vp — but we never descended so low as to go to the General Government to beg — it was never seriously entertained by men with anything like statesmanlike views to lower the price of land, because they knew that to do tbis would be to pass good agricultural land into the hands of large sheep farmers. The consequence was, that when this great flood of prosperity came over the Australian colonies and New Zealand, our land sales increased. This tide of prosperity here was not wholly due to the scheme of public works adopted by the House, bufc by those concurrent causes which are bo large in their sources as to render it almost impossible to discover why the prosperity has beed so great as it has bean. In consequence of this prosperity we were able fco sell a greafc deal of our land. We have now some money in our coffers. Instead of putting out that money, or asking for public works at a time when there was no labour to carry them on, and when £1 spent would nofc have gone so far as 10s would now, the Government very wisely determined fco ga on only with auch works as they oould find labour for without distressing the labour market, and fco keep the money for the days when labour would be at disposal,

and when men would require wages. Ido not take any credit for this determination on the part of the Provincial Government; in fact I was not a member of th» Government afc the time to which I refer. Our very prudence has turned against us, and created the envy of others, and when I hear (as I have beard outside this province) men saying that thia Canterbury has no right to r.JI in wealth afc a time when the reßfc of the colony is poor — when they forget; thafc they hare disposed of their land for a song, and prevented apparently for ever, at least for our time, the permanent settlement of the country — when I hear that, I feel fchafc as a colonist, settled in Canterbury, and as your representative in the General Assembly, I am bound to stand up and fight for our jusfc rightß, and that is our land revenue. (Hear, hear, und loud cheers.) I will now speak a word or two respecting how far we may think .we can preserve pur provincial institutions while those in the North Island are destroyed. We have Mr Stafford, a gentleman whon we all respect for hiß great ability, and I will also say for his high statesmanlike views generally, for his clean-handed-,, ness in political affairs. We have reason to respect him for those qualities. He says, "Do not distress yourselves ; it means the abolition of the provinces of the South ; I will support it." I believe, and would not say ifc for any political purpose, that if the Premier brought in a bill for the abolition of all" the provinces next session, it would be carried by as large a majority, or thereabouts, as carried the resolutions for the abolition of the provinces of the North Island. Now, if the provinces- are gone, where is your land f und ? Why, it is because the provinces have certain clearly defined boundaries and certain institutions that this land fund has got that fixity which ifc could nofc possibly have if those provinces wero abolished ; and from what I know of fche people of fche Geaeral Assembly, I know they would nofc hesitate for a moment to appropriate fche land fund as colonial revenue. Well, ifc is for the people of this province to consider how far the abolition of the provinces in the North Island is going fco affect thea. Ifc is also their duty to consider how far it will affect the people in the northern provinces, but I hope tbat they will believe that if the provinces of the NorthIsland are abolished, it follows that those of the South will be abolished 1 also, if not at the same time, almoat immediately afterwards. What we are to have in the place of existing institutions none of us have the slightest idea of. Well, I have heard it said that the provinces were expensive in their mode of government. I would ask you to bear in mind tl at whatever you put; in the place of the provinces, there will be some expenditure. You will see by Hansard fchafc legislative and executive chargeß for the North Island in 1873, were £13,914 7s 3d . The Premier never attempted to show, because he knew ifc was out of the question, that there would be any saving except on what he considered fche score of efficiency. I will speak on thafc subject by-and by. I may say that the money at present is being spent by the General Government, I don't say lavishly, but very fast, and the staff of Government officials is beyond anything the people have any idea of. (Hear, hear.) The Publio Works office is conducted by a man of great zeal, and who posBesses a thorough knowledge of his business, but to maintain draftsmen, clerks, messengers, Sac, for thafc department, fche amount voted for this year alone was £83,563. Of course it is a large office, but I will ask you, when one office can spend that amount and other offices spend equally well, whether the Geaeral Government cannot spend money very well; and ,1 will ask you to consider by-and-by what they have done -with the' money, and will contrast; that a little bit with what the Provincial Government has done. In a few years time— perhaps in two years — tbe money that is being borrowed will be spent. This army of officials will be no longer necessary ; men will be no longer employed on works. Consequent upon this the power of purchasing goods will be considerably lessened, because it stands to reason that people in poorer circumstances will not be enabled to purchase so freely as they can do in times cf prosperity. ' I fear that hardship! will exist to some extent in the country. ; I think we are going too fast. We are not spending over the number of years originally intended thoie greafc resources that might have been usefully employed if the money had been judiciously expended ; in fact, we are going so fast that when we stop these works, there may be a greafc collapse and great Buffering. When I pbinfc out these things to you, I ask you is ifc possible that the Customs' revenue can possibly be as large as ifc ia now ? How can we expeofc people fco buy as many articles when they are poor as they did when no difficulties surrounded them ?. Now, this precipitate ex? penditure of publio money is producing the result in men's minds that there is great apparent prosperity, but I think we can see pretty clearly that when this borrowed money is all spent in a couple of years or so, ifc must, at any rate, atop thafc. large outlay which we have been hitherto incurring. I think it would bo wiser to extend the prosecution of these works over a greater length ef time, especially in those parts of the country where they cannot be made to pay working expenses, than to produce this unnatural impression of prosperity, which is to be followed, I fear, by a certain amount of depression and gloom. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Those are the reasons that induce me to feel some little uneasiness. I never have been an alarmist. I have supported Mr Vogel's policy from the first. I believe ifc to be a sound and good policy if wisely administered and the borrowing power kept wifchin proper limits ; but I cannofc keep from my mind the fact that the House itself will grant fche Premier almost; any amount pf money fchafc he will ask for, and I cannofc disguise from myself that, although he is a man of eminent ability and I think honesty of purpose — I do not doubt ifc ancl never did ; I believe he is a man of too large a nature and of too pre-eminent ability lj stoop to the petty artifices of little minds, duplicity or double-dealing. (Hear, hear.) But I Bay he is a sanguine man, and looks to the better side of things. You must remember, gentlemen, that one of the very fineat heads — one of the greatest intellects of the present century, blinded by his greafc successes, found disaster afc Moscow, and the results of thePremier'sadministration, if a check is notput upon him, are likely to be ruinous. We may bear a debt of eighteen or nineteen millions, but I believe that if it is necessary for Mr Yogel to come down next session and the session after that — (if the electors see fit to return the same men as now hold Beats in the General Assembly) — and ask for five millions more, I believe they will give ifc to him. There are plenty of men in the colony who are returned from needy portions of the colony, who consider it a duty they owe to their constituencies to get money however they can, no matter who is to bear the burden of interest. Now, these are tht dangers that

besefc us, and which we have to guard against. Giving every credit to the Premier for his honest intentions, I say I fear that if he is not checked, he may go on until we are in difficulties that will bring gloom and despondency on us for many years afterwards. I (Cheers.) Now, I would ask you in conclusion [ to recollect — first, that I am not, as some are who voted against those resolutions, a provincialist in the general acceptation of the term. I do not say thafc provincial institutions might not or should not be modified in the course of time ; bufc I Bay that I object to taking away thafc which has done an immense deal of good, or to any attempt to take it away uutil I know what we are going to put in its 5 place. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I do nq^ belong to the provinoialisfc, bufc to the coh-^ stitutional party, and I object to these changes j until the people themselves have been consulted. (Hear, hear.) I have not enlisted under fche banner of any leader. If I had to choose my leader, I should wish to choose Mr Yogel, because he has got such large ability and large views that I think it would be an honour to serve under him; bufc his pace is much too fast ; I could not keep up to it. (Laughter.) His pace is so fast, he is SO dazzling in his movements, and it seems he iB bo restless in his energy, that I think he is going beyond the strength of this colony, with a small population of 300,000 soula ; and much as I should wish to support him in anything he might bring forward, yet as tbe representative of a body of people whose interests for weal or for woe are fco a certain extent in the hands of their member, I say I could not support him until I saw some check put upon those movements which may end in ruin. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I would here ask those who may think that Provincial institutions have not done everything in the best manner, to consider that whatever progress we have made, we owe to Provincial institutions. (Hear, hear.) They have founded and maintained our schools ; they have made our roads and bridges ; they have organised our police ; they have provided our hospitals, gaols, and lunatio asylums; they have supplied funds for the support of the Bick and needy ; and generally, I think, their administration has been one of success. And. if I might speak beyond the audience here,:*£ would ask people not to be impatient wife&rany institution ; I would ask them' to re?' member that, with regard tb every municipality, every Road Board, and every school committee, there are people who object to fche action of these bodies. I think that these objections very often come from people misunderstanding the motives, or the very actions themselves, of those who serve on public bodies, and those objections are inseparable from human nature. But ifc is a duty we owe to ourselves, and to those that come after us, to be patient under whatever difficulties may arise ; patient, by patiently endeavouring to change them for the better ; and, above all things, ifc behoves us to work soberly and wisely towards a good end, without emperilling that whioh is good in itself. (Loud cheers.) Mr Montgomeby, who resumed his seat amid loud cheers, said he would be happy to answer any questions that might be put to him.: No questions being put, votes of thanks to Mr Montgomery for his able exposition, and to the chairman for his conduct in the chair, were unanimously passed, and the proceedings terminated.