PARLIAMENTARY NOTES.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 693, 12 August 1870, Page 4

PARLIAMENTARY NOTES.

The following reports of .business done, in the House of Representatives are taken from toe Wellington Independent :— COLC-OTAI. DEFENCE XOAN APPOKTIONMEKT BHiL. Mb Yogel, in moving the second reading of this bill, said it had been very materially altered in accordance with the suggestions of various hoii. members. He might state that the province of Auckland had such a plethora of wealth that it bad refused to borrow the money to pay its quota to the Loan Allocation Fund, preferring to pay it ont of the current revenue. But the Superintendent had agreed with the Government to borrow a certain sum bf money for the extinguishment of the land scrip pf Mr Busby, and a proposal to that effect would ba inserted in the schedule to the bill. The Government would also insert that' provision which they had intended to introduce- into the larger act, that the debentures should not be sold at a lower rate than fixed. The money would have to be appropriated by the Assembly each year as ■uv the case of ordinary revenue. [ Mb Hall said as the bill was so much altered, and had only just been placed in the hands of hon. members, the Government "must allow them, if necessary, to go into the discussion of this bill in a future stage. *"' "Mb FiTZHEBBBBT would desire tb give to this bill^*m6re than to any of the other bills, his hearty approval, as he recognised in it the highly proper principle of providing for the future. i ; 1 'Mr Cbacboft Wilson hoped the second reading of the bill would be postponed. He, for one, was opposed to. borrowing money for defence purposes. He had for eleven years attempted tp dissuade the people of the South from separating frbm ; the North, but the burdeffs'which: were; being imposed upon them made him feel disposed to go in for separation. ■: .7 '••;;■- - . „ J.."-. ,Mr Bichmond said he was of opinion that tne . war'expenditure should Zbe , defrayed out of 'culrerit revenue ;'they were in the habit of placing any inconvenient burdens on the future, and the result would be that within their time, and that of their children, those gardens would, become totally unbearable. ■^Sit'Stxwvowo, BBii that if he thought this measure would' leid vi separation, be would not^sdpportfiit/bnt'he did hot think it at^all likely, as from * tho 'Imperial guarantees, arid the additional link which this bill supplied 'in the; chain by the principle ' of : it being the duty of the, united colony to undertake: the proiectiph' of • life and property, separation was practically/ put • further off than ever, lp, should .support the, bill. '' Mr Cableton said the question of defence e*roejditureJ_diyi.dedjtsejLf,h two heads — bruinafy-' and* : extraordinary expenditure. The latter he would agree to being charged on the loan, but in the case of the former" he thought it should be charged on the ordinary, revenue. ' . 'Mr Reader Wood said while agreeing that it had ' been found it was impossible to meet the defence expenditure out of current revenue, he did not think it all advisable that the whole of the defence expenditure should be charged on loan. If the Government would make an amendment that half- the amount shpuld.be charged •on revenue, and half on loan, they would i have his support. "Mr Collins, advocated the postponement 6_!"thebiir. ; ' ! -^ • • Mr Keynolds said that if, as stated by the hon. member fbr 'Timaru, this bill would preclude the people*>f the colony from obtaining what they desiredf-aeparatipn, he should vote against tUe'Vecond "reading of this bill ; and he wo^ld therefore,: in-order 7 to. allo.ff pf hon. members'mkkiflg^themseives acquainted with the'bearing Of this* measure, move the adj6urn*nierif '61 ''m^iebite. : "- 1 *' • ' H^fe^^feßrT*r^e•^OTldHd^ the motion; and* in dSiflg so : staled-Zthit <fie was^bpposed to bbi*«rfltwlng mofitey fot dfeWhee imr^bse*. " ■" ' E'M»"Ki!LLl:«cbhßfdei*fea'that ) thd -native Sis•_ttr^ances f wfere, ektrtordliSary ' occUr , _■etfce's 1 , , ahZoVss such should be defrayed out of losh-; he-shouM-tlieiefuie suppuit the bill. . Mr .'Mi.CAitbß'Bw opposed the adjournment of the debate. Mr M'lNgoa hoped -<thafi the;hon. member for Dunedin would withdraw his motion. Mr Rfc-rfco-tos wbiUdicbhsent to : withdraw his motion for adjournment. Mr Dignan tfrot-ghZVtbat the hon. member for-Dunedid 1 should mbfrrfcave leave to withdraw his motion.. .was of . opinion, that the "trbnl-mfemb'er fOr-Dugeain-'did not support^fae (Mi'tk of separation^with'any sincerity, but only brought lWorward to* impede 'the legislation of the countiry^ He l wbuld support the biIKT F i 5. (- ?r aYJSr t- V: Vrt : > Mr BiBCHM-o-pet to oppose Jhe withdrawal of the amendment of the hon. member for Dunedin, aß*lhatT^n"*erman i , rpse'ron"' eyetyc occasion to impede the business of the House, afldlbe*(Mrjßtreb)*' shognld pre»*itlfe que* tion. r ] The amendment for leave to? withdraw the motion was negatived on -the -voices.". -• Mr Stevens said^tbat-th^ho&'mnember for Dunedin might very fairly' haver: tested hiß argument for the ad jourmtiebfeoflbZe (debate on the impropriety of coming to^i decision on this question before tte^batiheid faniopportunity of hearingriwtoithe H<mitbefDefenr;e Minister jvbnt was going to be dQnei during the five years for which. they were asked to •troter supplies. .üßowto not going to oppose tha,J)ilC-hnt .he-irußted_-the-^avernment would cjnflider-the p-^nt b^b^djraisejd above. The p'omt "to be considered was this, either that the*^pgey^p--^^j*bed)orrowed ;crqrloan7, or that the capitation grants -to, ,the province's should be reduced, and the^Goyernment were of ophiibr/>*%ay'it^Waß*D'e't.^ i ''tb-'i)^y-' the amounts to the provinces and 'defray- the cost of defence out of loan-.-o --With : "regard; to. the question of Separation, he-Jwas of opinion that it was high time that the subject were allowed to drop, as it had been debated until it had become quite wearisome. Her had come to the conclusion that to look at-separa-

tion as a meanß of escaping from- the defence expenditure was a delusion^as he_ asserted, --h'gtlsyeß If Bfep&rfttl6»' •V'ttTT'efTected. and~ar* alarming inSurre'otibri'-Was' to break out in the North Island, the. South could -not stand idly by. (Hear, hear,> .He thought the Government should lay before the House tbe scheme of defence forthe five years. Mr M'Leait said the Government recognised the necessity of having the very best force procurable' for the defence of the colony. The estimate made by the Government was a large one, and it might perhaps by circumstances be reduced; but, at the same time, the Government had no wish to remore this expenditure at all outside the annual vote of the House. Should the amount not be. required the Militia and Volunteers might be incorporated in the defence force of the colony, and under the control of the Colonial Government. And an axiom of Government was that it was their duty to protect life and property; and to do this efficiently they should be prepared to give those who had to fight a guarantee that their position was not dependent on the caprices of the House, as in tbat case it was utterly impossible to obtain an efficient force, and it would, in case of emergency, cost twice the amount asked for. It was there* fore as a measure of : economy that this bill commended itself to the country. He shonld be prepared at the proper time to come down with full explanations of the defence policy of the Government; (Hear, hear.) Mr C. O'Neill supported the bill. The motion for adjournment : was put and negatived on the voices; Colonel Haultain supported the bill. He was of opinion that a rote for defence purposes spread over a term of years was the only way in which the Government could secure peace. Mr M'Leait desired to correct an error into which he had inadvertently fallen, respecting the surplus, if sny, being applied towards Militia and Volunteers. The bill provided tbat the" surplus, if any, should be applied towards redeeming Treasury bills. Mr Yogel replied on tho whole question. He would desire to 'point out to the hon. member for Coleridge, that last year he proposed tb borrow- money for defence purposes.- ; The real Zfaet was, that the bon. member did not approve of the way in which the money was to be spent. '„ [3*lr Wilson* '.l, object tb it being; wasted. J The hon. member *', would not have objected to nioney being borrowed to introdiice a horde of savages, but he did so. when tbey proposed to establish an efficient force. With respect to separation, upon which, if he would' allow. him' to say so, the hon. member for Dunedin had gone mad, it would be settled on a very different and more comprehensive basis than a series of hastily drawn up resolutions. He . would desire to point out to hon. members that tlieaa bills were only component parts of the whole financial scheme of the Government' which had been accepted by the House. Although the Government had a right to be able to afford protection to life and property, it. was uttrly impossible for. any. Government to say that there would not be : outbreaks iri some districts, and the* Government should be enabled to move a force to the spot threatened. In adopting the second reading he believed the House would be affirming the principle jthat it was pecessary to have permanehtprbvisidn for the defence of life and property throughout the- colony. (Cheers.) On, the question, for the , second reading being put, it was carried on the voices with O'niy,one disWritiehti'Mr J. C. Wilson,*' who Remanded a division j 'which took 'place' -With the' foflowirig'TfesUlt— Ayes, 48 ; Noes,'?;; Pairs-r^For, Mr Parker: against, Mr Mer'vy'n! QJhe following, members voted with the Noes '-^Messrs ' 'Carleton, Swan, Munro, ' Brown « Collinsi'SrdllieV * ahd Wilson," '' ' ''"".-• " ' : : ".' j -.Tlie bill Was 7 th'e'reSd';a i; Beb6bd ' time and prefered to ba committed: next sitting day. ! '''l-tqhOBA.TION' ANI) TXTBtiC WORKS 'Bl'tt. i Th 6 adjourned felerjate'bn'these'cbbd reading of thiß'bill I was i, reßUm , ed by • ' r- - ;- --. ■" Mr'S-rX*tT6B*6', L wh*o 7 8fated that he was hot! prepared to slpeak upon:* this bill, and •he would ask .tbef.Governmient.not to take the committal of ,this bill until next. Tuesday^ j * 'ikt' VboKL 'wotn'diabk' thfe^Hbuse to 'conirnft thlfe biH*on JWiday*, -' but if> th§ ''hoW riiera^r' wished'then- for .a-i further- adjourhment'-the Government" wou)d be disposed to grAnt it.*-;' '. '■ Mr. Richmohd ,would advocate thd-Govern* ment dropping the. n*til altogether for this session, aba-Hns wai'reddert'd'-rofe'm'd-re tatiif' . inc onsequence of *the v a'mSndment whtohhad 1 be«n; introdUced,T that* the: -sanction .pf ; tbe: Assembljfj w.pujd have ito be . obtai-oe^ t bef pre Ifie'cbnstructibn'of any of 'the works could be h&Wied u ohii' -fnen 3 fcrcrbßedddi>tb* criticfte'i'tbe meaMris irPdetail-^.' kaJcuj'giexeeptidnito the part ; of the bill pio* VjiQing,^ or. the construction, pf railway s,^gurf jngZtnafrrihis i ,,pbrt,-ioh. of; the r bill mighttbe, tmym oWdf •tltf'bltfWa whole; ancTtlat >A6h>''lln , et'*»BdM'd» Wn&thghtlmW'* stir k\9p&rtpef bnij< faeooropanle-d r>>*» pl-art,*' seteipnfi, -andr; K-^he • ease w'jj*h ptovinciai' railway 'bills., .* ije^.wonj^ i lesire " "td' impress* upon ' .tie "EegisTature ilHf ri&esHty "4ri* pa*usmfc ; ' before rdililfc \hm«'t(Ai-d> sunfaf^tand large 'piswers-lndiS^ erimiaa-tfll^.niVYHh regard Ho itfafe -question of iouce L the fplly, nay iheiWickedneß-«, of bringi ngltf " pfeople* W "Oils " s mm6WpW ridM-ri^Wig^iirfttnfffor^tlln^'Hhern 1 . -'•'afrej ■riMmoiattractddn trffereZd to/the? Co.b&Btrftt* . : emajp and^ettje dow^ by.thi! eisy aequjiu^ : ionjif freeholdJnnd.Z.in whichYihe^wer-a far. lehin'd ft'lPbtheir colonies' and '-peoples engaged i ri Ith-£1 th-£ , %'6r**6'f cdTb'rt^.a.rdh. !i H^ J vr6ußf dfcsj{rte' anoint outtlle-ver^-gfieat laxity ffr ith'lW bldfc/ 1 he;billihadj bsett,:4raw.**v as.-, instanced! by ireaepcij of certain ctauaes not at all applica T l)Ie to' the'c^cunjslmices. of 'the etjlpny.. He Jhbuld'n6*tr t: havte 'ma'dy'this '^Vo'stlie '■criticism' the bill, if he had -dtWffieflg&taQalTOfty could carry this: scheme quite iaawell without !hia bill, as all thc-y wapted to' do "\f.aa to contruct roads, to carry out. surveys, and geneally to make enquiries' in the matter. Ue

had thodght it his ddty to hiafevthb -reltSdarks, he had done,, because the bill, one which he jhiißC say coiitained a great aonrbeTof new and distinct • principles i had -been brought down and disposed of in so short a time... He felt that he was being dragged through the mire at the chariot wheels of the hori. Treasurer, and he for one could not consent to | such rash and unconsidered legislation. | (Cheers.) ... j Mr Fitzhbbbbbt said that dealing with a i measure of this magnitude — a measure the i largest which had been submitted to that ; House — hon. members had not had time to i consider it fully, or to give it that careful | consideration which it demanded. He should reserve any further remarks until tbe House ; went into committee on the Bill. He differed with the hon. member for Grey and Bell, 'that this measure should be referred to the next Parliament, as the principle of the Bill had been affirmed, and all that now remained was the question of administration — a vital 'one, however, and one which, he thought, the House should surround with those checks which were necessary for its proper development. 'He was not in favour of delaying the commencement of these great works, but he would urgeupon the House the necessity of providing for those additions to their population which it was intended to introduce. He should therefore vote for the second reading of - the* Bill.'Mr Yogel said the Government would be prepared to concede only so far as intimated in answer to the hon. member for Timaru. The .Government would press the second reading' of this Bill. Mr J. C. Wilson would move as an amendment, that the bill be read that day Bix months so as to give the new Parliament an opportunity of expressing their opinion upon it. [The hon. member then proceeded to quote from Captain Baldwin's report on the mining operations in the State of California to show that the expenditure on the water supply to goldfields would not be productive of good to the colony.]) Mr Colliks seconded tbe amendment, and took occasion to characterise the bill as a series of guesses— one which would hand over to the ' Government' despotic power over the lands and purse of the colony. \ Mr HA*Lii wbuld vote again Bt the amendment, but if the hon. member for Coleridge had moved the adjournment of the debate he should have voted with him. He would point out that time had not been allowed by the Government to consider this bill in all its bearings, and he hoped they would adjourn the debate ; but if the Government pressed the second reading, he should reserve any further remarks until the motion for going into committee. He would desire to draw attention to ' two points which bad struck him, and one was, that the Provincial Councils had by this bill power to hand over to the Government any amount of land | secondly, that the House was fairly entitled to know the machine^' by which this money should be distributed,' whether they were to have aMinister of Publio Works ' or "what. He would not vote for a bill the provisions ofWhich he had not had an opportunity of care, Stilly considering." s Mr Jollie opposed the second reading.of the bill,- Stating that he had not seenatiy reason to alter his opinion of the measures of the Government. It was his opinion that they had been put together in a hasZty and unconsidered manner ' to batch the popular applause. (Cheersi)z *. *. ■•• - ! Mr-Stfß'Vߣs advocated the gfranting '■ of nore time for. the 'consideration of the mea<UUreS, ■•;••: ; :'; '-:-.= ;? yy''. '.•': - ' . : .Mr Rollestok was of opinion, and had -txpressed his opinion in the House and putpf t, that the scheme of 'the Mini's^rjr was of i ar - ;do 1 1arj_!e*'$iia > .^^^ a Par r iameb't ' -on the eve ' • of ' "a ' dissolution j ! and ihould: be remitted to the new -Parliament. This, w:as his own.private opinion, but he had oeen induced to w,aive this and to concede, to t;he'Grb've , rnmerit ; in th'e^matter.' He should pupport thesecodd :V -r^a9ing of -'this'Bill -at the same time he"shoald/in I Committee,«nBeavour so to help tb shape'htheaßill.as it Wo-ald, be injnossji^f ßjf or, a sf pg^le ; sixpenger-of tnls"£apney f tb.'be spenfc otherwise than^n/^he wliy'iri -wfilch it wsk in.endyd '.'b'l.e'tie'vptedZ {What in his mind was so exceedingly 'unsa ltis*fect.oryj:^a»:.thefindeflnitehess!Jof£fthe'pM^ jposals of r-tJ}-*-. ftiU w%reßject;tp the dealing jwith the land fund.' He should, as he had saidi'vote'* for the Bill, and would help the Gdverem-.nt .-to ; Bhape the ; measure in; 'the ve^ry best m^ann^ ,j-?i -y j-. r-yy *;.- --i .Mr^Vfi§EV replied updh the whole ques4fctonjin.aa e^hjau^live SPjeechj replying to the-crxtictin-s of, tne 7 'v/irious' hori". members' on tHt-BUH ; *llr?di|ljlufeiie*as*« «f i^rt^to^ give'^to- 'thi country a Bill whiph^BrlrhaTHhe'-eflectiOlt Conferring upon it a brii^aqt, f ut)ire. ,., r _ r . „•_■) i I On the question of ;the-;se4o9d Gliding being PHK' t( ? j^P'Jßfifi 86 * thft-ayes-were^declaredtto havb <_tV r M^WiiibN^em&d-'a-divysron, tvhich tocfe'pl.ic-s'. wittf -the'' following rei=rult'; •f— Aye|, 4*ss "noes, 7. The following members, voted mtU.tfw nees?— Messrs, WilsQnji J. C,: HauKaih;; Reader -Wood, Munro, Jollie, Ri«imol.tf/<3bhiaa? :;J^ " ; ?: >\ -Z The Bill was then read a .second 1 'time'ai-d dra»Bcfto W^ctemltte^i- -- ''■>".'