THAMES HOSPITAL ENQUIRY.

Thames Star, Volume VI, Issue 1795, 3 October 1874, Page 2

THAMES HOSPITAL ENQUIRY.

The Committee met again last evening, at 7 o'clock. There were present: Mr. Bowe (President), Revs. Hill, Lonnergan and Lush, and .Messrs Mcllhone, Tyler, Cox, Prater, Eenshaw, Wilkinson, Gudgeon, Sims, Macnab, Power, Souter, Day, Hudson, McDonald, McCullough and Bagnall.

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed.

A letter from Miss Milgrew was then read, which stated that the writer, having read the report of last, meeting's proceedings, did not think she would be justified in coming before that Committee ; but in order that the truth might be arrived at, sh« had made a statement in the presence of a Justice of the Peace, w.hich she begged to tender.

The Chairman said the question was could the statement be received, and recorded on the minutes.

Father Lonnergan moved that the statement be read.

Mr. Mcllhone seconded.

Mr. Sims questioned whether the committee would be justified in receiving the statement. He thought it was necessary to know whether Miss Milgrew had been authorised to make a statement before a Justice of the Peace before they could receive the statement. It had been held out at last meeting that Miss Milgrew would be present, and then make a statement, and it was supposed that Mr. Tyler would be present to cross-examine her, apd he (Mr. Sims) presumed Mr. Tyler was there for that purpose—of confronting Miss Milgrew. (Mr. Tyler: That is so.) And now the lady was packed off, and got to make a statement before a Magistrate. Mr. Mcllhone: Packed off by whom ? Mr. Sims: I shan't say that. The question is, is the statement to be received.

Mr. Mcllhone; Surely the statement of Miss Milgrew ought to be received. Mr. Sims: I beg to move an amendment, that it be not received. : Mr. Lush seconded the amendment, and remarked that Mr. Hill had said at last meeting that he had good reason to believe that Miss Milgrew would come, and thought that, as he had failed in producing her, the charge against Mr. Tyler should be withdrawn, as that gentleman was placed at a most unfair advantage. Mr. Tyler said there was now a motion and an amendment before the committee. He might state that he knew a great deal about this affair.

Mr. Mcllhone: About what ? Mr. Tyler: The statement; you know something about it. Mr.Mcllhone: I do not.. ' The Chairman here called order. :'Mr. Tyler continued—-he was about to speak to the motion and amendment;. There were two reasons why the statement before the committee should not be read. He should not exercise any vote in the matter, but considered it a duty to lay before the committee the manner in which the statement had been got up, which would show that it should not be received. No later than to-day (yesterday) at half-past 12 o'clock he had paid Miss Milgrew off, having given her notice to leave on Friday last. Knowing that when she had left his service, Miss Milgrew might be subjected to influences that were not creditable— .

Mr. Mcllhone rose to order; What had they to do with Mr. Tyler's giving his servant notice. This was what was complained of—importing fresh matter into the discussion.

Mr. Wilkinson wanted to know who was in possession—Mr. Tyler or Mr. Mcllhone.

The Chairman said Mr. Tyler was in possession. Mr. Mcllhone: Then I simply rise to order, and ask whether Mr. Tyler's address is not foreign to the subject. Chairman: Personally, I think Mr. Tyler has a perfect right to assign whatever reasons he pleases, so long as he confines himself to the bounds of propriety, Mr. Tyler said that was what he was about to do. He had paid the girl off, as he had stated, that day, and, knowing that influences might be brought to bear upon her—that she might be induced to make statements other than those she had previously made, he (Mr. Tyler) had had a person present who took down all that Miss Milgrewsaid in shorthand. Whether the statement before them was correct remained to be seen. But he would dis - tinctly reiterate that he had never tampered with the girl. He had been informed by a gentleman that Miss Milgrew had made a statement before the Mayor. He went to the Mayw? and then found to his j intense disgust that Mr. Hill had gone to him (the Mayor) and had asked him to take down the statement. The statement, which had been got up by two members of committee known to have occupied a prominent position in one direction, was worthless. He considered that in common fairness to him he should have been allowed to see the statement, if it was intended to be used pgainst him. (There were several interruptions here, but Mr. Tyler finally continued the thread of his discourse). He did not wish to influence any member as to the reception of the itatement, but would ask whether it was a proper document, to be used against any person. Mr. Tyler then proceeded to show that the statement was not upon oath, but merely _ a declaration before a person who happened in this case to bo a Justice of the Peace; and then for that it should not be used against any person. The statement, so far. as he was concerned, might be read; he only wished to point out the abominable circumstances under which it had been made.

Mr. Hill, in answer to Mr. Tyler, then made an explanation as to how the statement had been got up. Ho had every confidence at last meeting that Miss Milgrew would be present, but from the re-

| ports of the proceedings Miss Milgrew thought she would not be justified in making her appearance before the Committee. She expressed, her willingness, however, to make $ statement before a Justice^ of the Peace, and he (Mr. Hill) ascertaining that she was departing for Auckland before the Committee would sit,, got her to sign, the document in the presence of His Worship the Mayor. Mr. Hill then went on to enow that Miss Milgrew was acquainted with every word of the contents, the statement having been read over to h#r five times ; and as to its not being taken on oath, Mr. Hill explained that by stating that he desired it, but had bowed to the opinion of Mr. Davies, who considered it unnecessary. Mr. Power said that in point of law a declaration was equal to a statement on oath, declarations Tiaying been introduced to obviate the necessity of persons taking oaths who held an objection.

Mr- Tyler informed Mr. Power that he was mistaken.

Mr. Bagnall said the statement of Miss Milgrew must have been prepared before last meeting, when as Mr. Hill had said he confidently expected she would be present. In reply to this Mr. Hill said he had certainly taken down the statement of of Miss Milgrew long before he had anj idea that it would come before the Corncommittee in present shape. He had not only taken -down the statement referred to, but had also taken the conversation that had occurred in his interview at Mr. Tyler's house, simply for his own satisfaction.

Mr. Renshaw asked how were they to proceed with the business if they received a statement from a person who could not be cross-examined. Mr. Tyler would produce a counter statement, and there would be no end to it. If Miss Milgrew had been here, it would have been right, but in her absence, he thought this earnest desire to convict Mr. Tyler should not be shown.

Mr. Mcllhone: There is no desire to convict Mr. Tyler. Mr. "Wilkinson opposed the reading of the document.

Eev. James Hill said he had no desire to inflict an injury on any man. He would be the last to do it, and had simply taken the course he had to justify himself.

Mr. Gudgeon thought both statements should be withdrawn.

Mr. Tyler said from the discussion on the statement it might injure him if it were not read. His only object in alluding to it was to show how it had been got up. The Chairman considered the statement should not be read. He hoped this would be the last meeting on the subject, and considered they should ask the Government to institute an impartial en-

quiry. Some further discussion then arose as to whether the statement should be read, and, finally a division was taken, the j result being that a"majority of tnreewas ! obtained for its being read. i The following is the statement:— " Shortland, 2nd October, 1874.

" This is my statement regarding the matter for which my presence was wanted at the Hospital Committee:—On the evening of the day on which I attended the meeting of the sub-committee, Mr Tyler, in allusion to my evidence, of which he had heard, said, 'They will set you down as an enemy to the Hospital.' On the evening before the letter from the doctors and the wardsmen appeared in the newspapers, Mr Tyler was in the din-ing-room. He had a book; I think it was square, and not very thick. It was not a printed book; but there wer# pieces of newspaper pasted in it, near which was some writing. He said he wished to know if the report of my evidence which had been given was correct. He then read out of the book my statements separately, and asked me it* I had said so. When I stated that I had stated that I was frequently with Power from half to threequarters of an hour and had never seen any warder or patient with him, Mr Tyler said, ' And do you know that the reason was that through kindness, th« nurses did not like to intrude?' When Mr Tyler asked me if I had said that I had seen Power let the arm drop on the floor several times, I replied that I was sure my statement to the committee was that I had seen it twice. When he had gone over all my evidence, and I had said it was correct, Mr. Tyler said, 'It is very strange that the doctors and the wardsmen should all say that their evidence is incorrectly given, and that you should say that yours is correctly given.' I replied that it was correctly given, with the one exception about the twice. Mr. Tyler then said, 'It is also very strange that the people at the Hospital should contradict your statements, and you should say that they are true.' I then replied: ' Not only are my statements correct, but had my memory been as good then as now, I would have remembered more.—Mary Milchbew.—Signed and declared before me this second day of October, 1874, at Grahamstown. W. Davies, J... P"

Mr. Renshaw said this was a mare's nest.

Mr. Sims asked if this was the document which, had bean hanging over Mr. Tyler's head as a charge of tampering. . Mr. Tyler said if the statement was to be used against him he should have something tp say in the way of evidence. Some discussion then ensued as to the word charge, the Chairman and several members saying that th* Committee were not in a position to deal with any charge, as there bad been no charge before it. Mr. Hill said: I have acted, in this matter conscientiously, although improper motives have been attributed to me, and I think ifc right, at this stage of the proceedings, to facilitate the busi-, ness, to withdraw the statement. I do. so from a thorough conviction of duty,

and I think those who acted with me will acknowledge that Ido right. This statement appears to be the only thing lying in the way, and I think it is a duty f under such circumstances to withdraw it, which I now do. ,

Mr. Macnab : I did not understand what Mr. Hill withdrew was in the charge P - Mr. Mcllhone: No; the statement. After a (rood deal of discussion which tended to no particular aim—Mr. Hill asked Mr. Tyler a question—whether the shorthand reporter referred to by Mr. Tyler overheard what was said at the interview between himself and Miss Milgrew, without Miss Milerew's knowledge. Mr, Tyler: He did.

Mr. Hill: Then I consider it a most dishonorable proceeding on the part of Mr. Tyler, and had I known it previously I would not have withdrawn the statement.

The Chairman said there was no motion before the committee—they had nothing tangible to go upon. Mr. Macnab wished to hear it read again. Mr. Renshaw said it was like, a bubble, which had now burst. "*"v

Father Lonnergan : I do not think it ia a bubble .exactly. Mr. Hill said he could enter into that statement, and point out the elements in it, but would, not do so, and contented himself with drawing the statement. Mr. Sims : That is, you apologise P Mr. Hill: Certainly not; a good many apologies have to be made. Mr. Mcllhone : I shauld think not in the face of that statement.

Mr. Renshaw said ho felt strongly on Shis matter, and after hearing the statement read felt it was like the mountain in labor, which had brought forth a mouse. He moved—That, in the opinion of this meeting, the contents of the statement showed that it was very injudicious to found a charge of tampering on such meagre grounds.

Mr. Lush cordially seconded. Mr. Prater rose to move an amendment. He thought there was a certain amount of ground for Mr. Hill's statement. The relation in which Miss Milgrew stood to Mr. Tyler, should have prevented that gentleman from holding the communication he did—it was imprudent to say tbe least, and he did not think the statement the aerial thing Mr. Eenshaw made it out to be. He moved—" That this meeting expresses its disapprobation of the conduct of Mr. Tyler with regard to Miss Milgrew, and is strongly of opinion that his conduct throughout the whole proceeding has been highly reprehensible and injurious to the interests of the Thames Hospital." Father Lonergan seconded. Mr. Tyler then addressed the meeting at some length, and said so far as they were concerned the looner the enquiry was allowed t» drop the better. He stated that from private conversations which he had. with Mr. Hill he believed tifaTT^eHi!lßiiißTir~liad • Deen misinformed,and was satisfied that, being now aware of circumstances, he would not in a similar case pursue the same course. Mr. Tyler then reiterated the statement frequently made before that he had at first no feeling of ill-will towards any one member of the Sub-Committee, but since charges had been made against him, he should be unworthy the name of man if he did not defend himself.

Mr. Tyler then drew a comparison between certain parts of the statement of Miss Milgrew (others being substantially correct) and the statement of what Miss Milgrew said to him which had been taken down for him in shorthand.

Mr. Mcllhone thought it improper that the statement of Mr. Tyler's should be referred to—what guarautee had they that it was correct ? Who witnessed it.

Mr. Tyler: Mr. Davies will be forthcoming on the proper occasion. A statement has been made in my absence, and. is now brought against me. This ii also a statement made by the girl. Mr. Mcllhone: How do we know that?

Mr. Tyler: It was said in my presence. Mr. McllhoneW How can we be sure of that? ;

Here ensued confusion.

Mr. Hill said he had accused no. onehe had made no charge, but simply stated what he had heard. Mr. Hill further stated that he had been influenced by no one in the course he had taken. It had not been at Mr. Mcllhone's suggestion. The information in the first place was obtained from a member of the committee, but not Mr. Mcllhone, as had been erroneously stated; and in the second place the information was received from some person outside. Mr. Cox hoped the amendment of Mr. Renshaw would be withdrawn, so that Mr. Hill could withdraw the statement. iMr. Hill said Mr. Tyler had objected to Mr. Frater's motion, but it should be remembered also that Mr. Renshaw's amendment also had a sting in it, for him (Mr. Hill.) Mr. Frater said he should be happy to withdraw his motion conditionally upon Mr. Renshaw doing likewise. Both motions were then withdrawn, and Mr. Wilkinson moved that Mr. Hill's withdrawal of the statement be accepted, which was fcrrried. | Mr. Hill then moved, "Thlt, in the opinion of this Committee, it is desirable that the Provincial Government be requested to cause an enquiry to_be made into the manner in which Maurice Power was treated in the Thames Hospital, and to ascertain if the manner in which he was treated could in any way have led to the disastrous result of the loss of his arm." Mr. Hill spoke to his motion at some length. He stated that he had begun and gone through the enquiry unbiased. His sole aim had been to do his duty to the Hospital and the public. Mr. Hill also gave his views as to howi the enquiry should have been conducted—

that the Sub-Committee, should hay brought up a report in the first place and have sub. .itted it to the General Committee, when the latter body should have decided whether there was tho substance of a case in tho report. He referred to the practice of enquiry in Edinburgh in the inner and outer courts of law. Mr. Cox seconded the moHon, and a number of gentlemen spoke in support of it, after which it was put by the Chairman and carried unanimously. - .r» Father Lonnergan said he was glad to see that the Committee had one and all come round to his and Mr. McCullough's. way of thinking since last meeting. ' r c Mr. Hill made a'sfatement to the effect' that he believed Mis* Mil grew, was a young lady whom it would \ not be possible to tamper, and Father Lonnergan stated that he had never seen Miss' Milgrew either in his official capacity or otherwise, and indignantly denied the insinuation that had been cast -to the .'effect that he (Father Lonnergan) had attempted to influence the young lady. : ■ A vote of thanks to the Sub-Committee was proposed by Mr. Cox, and carried.