THE HOSPITAL ENQUIRY.

Thames Star, Volume VI, Issue 1793, 1 October 1874, Page 2

THE HOSPITAL ENQUIRY.

; A meeting of the Hospital General Committee was held last evening at the Salutation Hotel, Mary-street, to proceed ■with the enquiry re the alleged neglect of Hospital officers. There were present: — Keys. Hill,LonnerganandLush; Messrs. Mcllhone, Frater, Bagnall, Eensbaw, Tyler, Wilkinson, Hudson, Macnab, Souter, Cox, McDonald, Sims, Gudgeon, Power, Day and McCullough.

Mr. Hill, Vice-President, took the chair, Mr. Win. Eowe being absent. The minutes of last meeting were read by the Secretary, and some slight alterations were made.

Mr. Cox asked the Chairman whether Mr. Berry was paid for making out the reports. The Chairman said it was intended that he should be paid. Mr. Berry said he had informed the Secretary after the first meeting that he should discontinue to take notes from that time.

The Chairman said the Secretary had not intimated to him that such was the case.

Mr. Honi3s said his reason was that he did not like to take the matter out of Mr. Berry's hands. Mr. Cox then wanted to know would Mr. Berry be paid. The Chairman said Mr. Berry had reported the first meeting, and then, according to his own statement, had intimated that he should leave off; therefore he would be paid for the first meeting, but for no subsequent ones. Mr. Cox said the reason he had asked was because he had recently observed certain comments on the proceedings of the Committee in the Advertiser, in the shape of paragraphs, letters, and in several leading articles. He (Mr. Cox) considered these comments extremely detrimental to the place and the committee, and he hoped that such a course would not be proceeded with—that the Advertiser would refrain until the investigation had. terminated. In the remarks which he spoke of imputations had been cast that they (the Committee) were nofc fit to hh there ; whereas he was convinced that it would be impossible to pack" a jury that would be more fitted to prosecute the inquiry and to arrive at a just conclusion. He again referred to the remarks which had been made in the press, and said they were' calculated to do a deal of injury without accomplishing any good. . ■■■■ Mr. Bagnall said he would, before proceeding with the evidence, like, to ask a question—whether the enquiry was :an investigation into the treament which Maurice Power had received while an inmate of the hospital or a comparison^ of the notes of the Sub-Committee ? He had been unavoidably absent, and was induced to ask the question from what appeared on the minutes as to the proceedings of the last few meetings. He had understood that the enquiry was to be commenced de novo. (A voice: Oh! ]So.) The gentleman who made that iemark would allow him (Mr. Bagnall) to know what he thought. That had been ■ his impression. When lie heard the

minutes read, he was much surprised that that such a conglomeration of ideas had been mixed tip in such a way, and that the remarks of the doctors should be put in amongst the notes. It seemed to him that nobody could come to a decision under such circumstances! He might be wrong; but felt convinced that if they continued in the same course, they would be in no better position to arrive at a just conclusion than when the report of the Sub-Committee was brought up. Under these circumstances, he thought it would be to the interests of the Hospital and the subscribers if-the whole matter were referred to some impartial persons to deal with it. Mr. Cox had made some remarks regarding the action of the Press. He. could not say how far the Press was warranted; but the proceedings had not had the object of furthering the enquiry, and from what he could learn they had not been at all creditable. The Chairman here said he must call Mr. Bagnall to order. They could not suffer for his absence. He should confine himself to the question. Mr. Bagnall then put the question again. The Chairman said his answer to that was that the intention was to combine the investigation in Maurice Power's case with the comparisons of the Sub-Com-mittee's notes. The principal object was to investigate the treatment of Maurice Power. The suggestion to proceed de novo had been negatived. (The Chairman then proceeded to relate the cause of the enquiry.) The second tlving wa3 to ascertain whether the report furnished was correct, the witnesses having written declaring to the contrary: thus the on'y way was to ask them what they had to object to, and to compare their statements with the evidence taken. After that it was intended that any additional evidence that could be obtained should be heard. Mr. Sims thought a resolution touching this matter would be found upon ths minutes. He apprehended everything would be explained by a reference to tho minute book. , The Chairman said it was Mr. Eenshaw who had moved that the enquiry should bo commenced de novo, and that gentleman would bear him out that the suggestion had been rejected. Mr. Tyler said, inasmuch as ho had been the mover of the resolution to com- j mence the investigation, he was the best person to state its intention. He had no intention to put the on their trial; his sole object had been to hold aninvestigation into the express or implied charges against the officers of the Hospital, having no intention of dealing with the Sub-Committee in any way whatever. And it was not until after the resolution had been passed that the discussion took place as to how the investigation should proceed—whether de novo or otherwise. At that time he had no objection to the Sub-Committee, and if the minutes were referred to they I would see that no charge had by him been made of improper conduct against the gentlemen constituting that committee ; on the contrary, he had said they wero bound to assume that the Committee had acted fairly in the matter. He had merely selected the course he had at subsequent meetings because he considered the Committee had become judicedMr. Mcllhone said it was all very well for members to stop away from meetings for their own reasons, and then tell them that the course proceeded with was j wrong. The course to-night was the same as that taken at the last night. The object of their enquiry was to ascertain how Maurice Power had been treated while in the hospital ; and secondly, had the officers cause of complaint as to what had been reported by the Sub-Committee. Mr. Tyler had turned up again, and wanted to mitiate a new form of procedure, and Mr. Bagnall was evidently mistaken in the nature of the resolution. Mr. Wilkinson said ho had also been absent from meetings, and like Mr. Bagnall he had been surprised at the minutes. It seemed to him that; the proceedings were more an enquiry into the report of the Sub-Committee than into the charges against the officers of the Hospital. With regard to the resolution, he should like to hear the minutes read. The Chairman said they were losing time through this discussion. Mr. Wilkinson would like to ask whether or not the Chairman intended to accedo to his request to have-the minutes read. Mi-. Hill: Oh, certainly. Mr. Bagnall said, regarding the statement of Mr. Mcllhone, that that gentleman was as likely to have mistaken the resolution as he had been. (He then read the resolution of Mr. Tyler.) The Chairman asked that some member would move a resolution. Mr. Baenall was proceeding to speak further, when Mr. Mcllhone remarked that they could never go on like this. Mr. Cox proposed that the investigation be proceeded with. Father Lonnergan said he should prefer to throw up the whole business. If gentlemen stopped away it was no reason that the Committee should be subjected to such interruption—he for one was not going to be humbugged. Mr. Bagnall was sorry to hear the rev. gentleman make.use of the expressions he had. He (Mr, Bagnall) had not come j there to humbug the meeting. His reason for not wishing to—(Mr. Bagnall was' here interrupted.) His reasons for not wishing to on with the enquiry as before, was that the minutes had been corrected. After the investigation was completed, they had no guarantee the public would receive it. He asked were there any names attached to the alterations made. He still thought that every person's evidence should be taken down separately, dud the names signed to the evidence.' There was nothing to prevent those per-

sons whose evidence had been taken objecting to it hereafter. He objected iv this way to the Sub-Committee's report being mixed up with the evidence taken. He considered the manner in which the minutes had been made out was most unheard of; it would puzzle a lawjer, even if he hailed from Philadelphia, to understand them. The Chairman said the matter had been fully discussed in the absence of the last speaker. Mr. Bagnall said if it was, and the present course dicided on, he must content himself with opposing it. / Mr. Sims said the evidence had been at the commencement taken in the manner spoken of by Mr. Bagnail, and the report of Mr. Berry had been brought; but it had been discontinued—why, he knew not. Mr. Berry brought up a correct statement of Dr. Kilgour's evidence, and the Committee objected to it because the notes of the Sub-Uommittee were not contained in it. Hc^Mr. Sims) quite concurred in what MPfeagnall had said. Mr. Tyler said he was about to speak on the motion before the meeting, notj withstanding the desire of the Chairman to suppress discussion. Mr. Hill: Permit me to say that is not correct. lam only anxious to go on with the business, but if you indulge in [ those remarks, I shali rule you out of order. Mr. Tyler: I shall proceed whether you rule me in or out of order. , Mr. Mcllhone: Then how are we to proceed if Mr. Tyler will not submit to the ruling of the Chair. The Chairman • I ask this meeting to support me in my capacity as Chairman, and if they do I shall put Mr. Tyler down. Mr. Tyler : It would take a better man than either the Chairman or Vice-Chair-man to put me down. Considerable confusion then took place, and several appeals were made for order, and " chair." Mr. Tyler, continued : If the gentlemen would hold their tongues and behave with decency, so would he. He opposed the motion as made for this reason—that the proceedings as being conducted were impartial and unfair, and calculated to pre- j judice persons in this enquiry. There were mixed up in the enquiry two questions which should have been entirely separate: the first was whether the report was complete or incomplete, ! and the second, whether there had been any neglect in the case of Maurice ! Power. These were separate and distinct questions, as the report might be correct,, and still there might be neglect or not. j The report might be correct or not. but when they took into consideration that it had been drawn up on an ex-parte hearing j the rqport might be correct upon the evidence, but incorrect upon the whole question ; but whether or not, that did not affect the question of negligence. (Mr. Tyler continued to impress upon his the necessity for taking the distinct questions he had mentioned separately.) He then said he had not come to take part in the proceedings* nor should he do until the charges which had been made against him by the rev. gentleman in the chair had been withdrawn. He had simply come to discuss the question at issue. He felt convinced they would never satisfy the public whatever decision they might arrive at. ' Mr; Mcllhone could not see how Mr. Tyler made two charges. The simple matter was to investigate Maurice Power's case. He thought that no difficulty would be put in the way by the statements being compared, and, moreover, it had been decided to proceed as they were. After some further disscussion Mr. Lush asked the Chairman whether he had done anything to secure the attendance of Miss Milgrew. The Chairman : I will answer that in proper time. Mr. Lush thought that was the proper time, as a gentleman of that Committee was debarred from taking any part in the proceedings.while a charge was hanging over him. As to what Mr. Mcllhone had said regarding two charges, he (Mr. Lush) considered there were two charges, inasmuch as Mr. Hill had distinctly stated at a previous meeting that the Sub-Committee were on their trial, hence that was a distinct charge from the one of neglect against the officers of the Hospital. If Mr. Cox pressed his motion he should move the following amendment—That the members of the late Sub-Committee take no further part in the present investigation except in so far as to cross-examine the witnesses. Mr. Cox said he should certainly press his motion in that case; he should wish to treat the members of the SubCommittee as gentlemen. Mr. Lush : They have stated that they are on their trial. If I were on my trial I should consider myself in a wrong position to sit and judge myself. Mr. Tyler seconded Mr. Lush's amendment. Those who voted 'icHfricthe amendment were: Messrs Wilkinson, Day, Lush, Tyler, Sims, and Bagnall. The Chairman was about to put the original motion as against the amendment, whefl Mr. Bagnall interrupted to show that the course was improper, and that the " contrary " should be taken first. The Chairman said his object was to economise time. Mr. Bagnall objected to the idea which appeared to be entertained, that he wished to take up the time of the meeting: his opinion was that the question of conducting that meeting properly was of far more importance than the time of any member present. The chairman called for a show of hands as against the amendment, and ten was the result. . Mr. Bagnall then proposed that the Committee take no further ovidence in the enquiry into thejtreatment of Maurice

•Power, and that it be referred to some persons ou' side who would take an unprejudiced, view of the matter. He would n.-une Captain Frast>r, Mr. Davies, Mayor, aud Mr Macdonald. The Chairman ivas, about to put the ) motionMr. Tyler objected to this hurrying over the business. Tho Chairman said lie had thought the gentleman was finished. Mr. Tyler: You could, hare done nothing of the sort, sir ; you saw the gentleman on his feet. Mr. Bagnall said he could assure the meeting he had no interest in prolonging the business ; his only aim was to see the enquiry conducted in a right-manner. He feared that the interests of the Hospital would suffer materially from the course <being taken-—it would be better to hand the whole matter over to some one in whom they coul'i have confide-ee. Mr. Wilkinson seconded, and considered it would bs the besteourse under the circumstances. ?~^P^ V ' Mr. Mellhone could hot understand why members of the Committee were frightened to undertake their duty of proceeding with the enquiry. They had no power to .do avray with it, having onx;e taken it in hand. And supposing they were to hand it over to the gentlemen referred to, was Mr. Bagnall in a position to say whether Captain Eraser would have anything to do with it; and supposing that to be satisfactory, what guarantee had they that Captain Fraser was less prejudiced than the Sub-Committee", or more capable of dealing with it. Mr. Power said the course proposed would be tantamount to passing avote of censure on themselves. Had the course been suggested at first hewould have voted for it, but now it was their duty to proceed. It was nothing more nor less than the paper that had started the agitation. Mr. Sims said no person present would charge him with having neglected his duty ; he had been there at every meeting, and intended to come if the enquiry were to last out twelve meetings longer; but what he would maintain was ' that the very fact of their being there night after night, and not getting on any better, was clear proof that they were not fit to undertake the investigation. He quite approved of the motion to refer the matter to the gentlemen named, and hoped the committee would vote for it. He believed Mr Mellhone had said that he intended to take up the time of that meeting in crossexamining Dr. Lethbridge. (Mr. Mellhone : Indeed I did) ; and also that in his opinion it would take twelve more meetings to complete the investigation; and he (Mr. turns), found his time to be of more value than to be wasted in that manner. Father Lonnergan said he would be happy to support the motion of Mr. Bagnall if that gentleman would consent to an addendum, that the Thames idvertißerbo consulted, and then dissolve the Committee altogether. Mr. Wilkinson again objected to the Advertiser being introduced into the discussion. ' , .;, Father Loanergan: lam in possession, Mr. Chairman ? Chairman: Yes, certainly. ■ Father Lonnergan: Then, I will not submit to be interrupted by Mr. Wilkinson. Mr, Power: I think it is quite proper to introduce the papers. Mr Tyler then said he would second Mr. Bagnal's motion ; it met his views. He purposely refrained from expressing his opinion at tho first meeting, as he could see the excitement under which the Committee were labouring, and especially, yourself (addressing the Chairman;) Chiarman : I have thown no excitement throughout the enquiry. ' i ■ Mr. Tyler: Then either you or myself have been mistaken, and you have, I think, been frequently mistaken before. The Chairman: I will not allow Mr. Tyler to use those expressions. He evidently comes here to insult. ' Mr. Tyler said he should say what he had to say. , He saw at the first meeting that members were excited. (Mr. Mellhone : yourself among the number!) He was not excited; he had conducted himself as a Christian and a gentleman should, and had said nothing to hurt the feelings of any one of the committee. It was Mr. Hill who got into such an excited state. Chairman.:.l deny it. If Mr. Tyler wishes to speak to the amendment he may ; but if not he must resume his seat. Mr. Tyler said he should not do so. At the time a charge had been made against him (Mr. Tyler) he had not said a wcrd about the rev. gentleman. The object had been to secure his absence from the enquiry, and he had succeeded admirably. (Mr. Mellhone: You are back again.) He was, but he had no intention of taking part in tho enquiry: he simply camo to discuss this matter. He said that members of committee had displayed, a strong bias, especially Messrs. and Mellhone ; and what he h^Br observed convinced him that those gentlemen. would be guilty of the most nefarious practices. Mr. Hill: If you repeat those words again you must take your seat. Mr. Tyler : I will not until I have finished speaking. Mr. Hill .-Then I will ask this meeting to protect the chair. Mr. Tyler: I will not withdraw the expressions, and have no desire to repeat - them. . Chairman : The question is, is Mr. Tyler to upset this meeting ? Sir. Mellhone: That is his object, evidently. „' Father Lonnergan: Ido aot see why he should be permitted to do so. j Mr. Tyler said he had come there much against his will, but had been asked to (do so by a large portion of the pub*

lie, and had been requested to take the action <he had. It was an. unpleasant duty, but one which he should perform, though fifty Mr. B ills endeavoured to prevent him. The committee was an improper tribunal to try the case because of the manner in*which they had gone about 1 securing an enquiry. They ■were mixing up. difficult charges, and were proceeding in a wily, Jesuitical way. Father Lonnergan: I did not come here to be insulted. I will go if those words are not withdrawn. Mr. Bagnall: Is the rev. gentleman a Jesuit? • The. Chairman said he would put it to the meeting. Mr. Tyler: It is no use your putting it to the meeting, as I should not withdraw the expression if.it was at your suggestion that the meeting demanded it. Mr/Lush thought the word was quite an ordinary expression. Mr. Tyler! said he had no intention of referring to the rev. gentleman at the time he snake. .Fatb^Kbnnergan : I will not accept aa.explanationia that way. I have seen the same reference in the paper. , Mr. Mtllhone: I beg to move ihat in the opinion of this meeting Mr. Tyler's conduct i* disgusting .Mr, iTyler: For the conduct of Mr. Mcllhone I would refer <he meeting to his notoriety at the\North Shore. • Mr> Mclllione: I admit having gained some notoriety at the North Shore, bufe of a different character to that of Mr. Tyler.' How about the "West Coast ? Mr. Tyler: What about the West Cojast ?

Mr. Mcllb.oi?e: Why, I never had to submit to being publicly whipped by a lady in the street, as you had. Mr. Wilkenson moved that the expression be withdrawn — there was nothing in it. Mr. Tyler stated distinctly that he had no intention of offending the rer. gentleman, and if he had done bo, he would withdraw the objectionable expression. Mr. McCullough moved an amendment to the effect that they petition the Government to take the matter into their own hands.

Father Lonnergan seconded the amendment, which was not carried.

The amendment of Mr. Bagnall was then put, and negatived, members voting for and against as follows: —For the amendment, to refer the matter to Capt.' Fraser, the Mayor, and Mr. J. E. Macdonald, there voted—Messrs. Eenshaw, Bagnall, £sims, Tyler, Hudson, Day, Wilkinson, Rev. V. Lush. Against—Messrs.. Frater, Power, Mcllhone, Macnab, McCullough, Sbuter, Cox, McDonald, Gudgeon, Rev. Father Lonergan. The question of adjournment was jut to the vote, and five only voted for it, and ten against. The examination of Dr. Lethbridge was then continued.