CRIMES BILL

Timaru Herald, Volume CL, Issue 22066, 12 September 1941, Page 4

CRIMES BILL

Abolition Of Capital Punishment Ban On Flogging (P.A.) WELLINGTON. September 11In moving the second reading of the Crimes Amendment Bill, the AttorneyGeneral 'Hon. H. G. R. Mason), explained that flogging was applied to males over 16 and whipping to those under that age, flogging being earned out by cat-o-nine tails and whipping with a birch rod. So far as the abolition of whipping was concerned, this was proposed somewhat nominally because these cases did not occur in practice. Boys under 16 were dealt with nearly always in the childrens court and did not come under the Supreme Court. The abolition of whipping did not really constitute * substantive change in practice. Mr Mason said that some people still thought it proper to punish for the sake of retribution, but he did not look upon that as one of the purposes of punishment at all. Mr W. P. Endean (National, Bern uera): What about deterrence? Mr Mason said certainly the deterrent aspect was important, but there was another reason that had Increasing place in our social system and that was the idea of reforming prisoners. In practice, therefore, the considerations that were applied were reduced to those of deterrence and reform. The punishment of death ruled out consideration of reform, so the question in such case was that of deterrence not to the prisoners before the court but to others. This was not the only country in the world in which the question of the abolition of capital punishment has been raised. A hundred years ago ip England there were as many as 200 offences for which the punishment was death, yet the severity of the punishment did not secure a land free from crime. The death penalty hqs been abolished in many countries without harm happening, and so far as one could see with beneficial results. The change had been made in countries which were foremast in the scale of civilisation. Looking at all countries, he continued, they did not show a steady diminution in the number of cases nor on the other hand did they show an increase. The balance seemed to be ip favour of countries where the sentence had been The change the Bill involved would be of moral advantage to our people, said the Minister, who added that the intense concentration of attention which was given to trials for murder was caused very largely by the prospects of someone suffering the penalty of death, and he was sure that concentration was not a good thing. It habituated people to the thought of cruelty and hate. There was more chance of a wrong verdict in a murder case than any other case, because one person who could explain the mystery, namely, the murdered person, was not available. Amendment Moved Mr C. G. E. Harker (National. Waipawa) said the whole question of making such amendments to law as

were proposed in the Bill bristled with difficulties. He would like to see a Royal Commission set up to take evidence and report, or would suggest that a Select Committee of the House be set up. If a commission sat and took evidence, the House would receive a recommendation that would not be the result of any party views but tfie considered judgment of the best possible advisers in the country. Mr Harker thep moved an amendment to the effect that in view'of the importance of the subject matter and the conflict of expert opjnlon, the Bill should not be proceeded with until a full inquiry had been made and evidence heard by an appropriate Royal Commission or the Select Committee of the House. Mr C. W. Boswell (Labour. Bay of Islands) said that with the going of vicious punishment crime had gone also. In his opinion they should stick to justice that was tempered with mercy. The Hon. J. G. Cobbe (National, Manawatu) expressed the opinion that the changes proposed in the Bill were very far-reaching and must tend to lessen the safety of women and children. There was no doubt that fear of punishment prevented murder, also other crimes, and he expressed the conviction that an Act of Parliament which really made crime easier and safer would certainly not have the effect of raising the moral character ol the people. He thought the Government would be well advised to withdraw the Bill. It was not wanted and must have the effect of making people less caret ..I before committing crime. Mr T. H. McCombs (Labour. Lyttelton) said the most important consideration was not the severity of the punishment but the certainty of detection. It was the efficiency at the police force and not the scale of punishment which kept the crime rate low in this country. Mrs C. Stewart (Labour. Wellington West) said flagging and punishment of that nature was not the right wa" to deal with assaults on women and children. People who committed offences of that sort were mentally unhinged. She thought the time had arrived when delinquency in all its forms should be regarded as a sickness which must be treated with understanding and not with revenge and in a spirit of retaliation. Mr W. J. Broadfoot (National. Waitomo) said the point of the amendment had been missed. All it asked for was a full investigation of a debatable problem. _ The Rev. Clyde Carr (Labour, Timaru) contended that the Bill was not a dangerous measure. Rather was there danger in not passing it. What was wanted was th? wisdom of maturity and not the rough justice of immaturity. Mr Endean urged that the Bill should be sent to a Commission so that evidence could be taken upon it. Amendment Rejected The amendment was then put and lost by 35 votes to 18. Replying to the debate, Mr Mason, referring to the question of assaults on women and children and why these particular crimes were selected for flogging, said it was because such crimes moved people to indignation. The idea of retribution could not be regarded as essential or proper in guiding one's actions. The Bill was then read a second time. In the committee stage, the Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates (National, Kaipara) also referred to attacks on children and said there was only one way to such offenders' hearts and that was through their hides. The Bill was put through committee, read a third time and passed.