THE TIMARU BUSES

Timaru Herald, Volume CVIII, Issue 16820, 27 May 1919, Page 2

THE TIMARU BUSES

■ . NEW ONES TO BE BOUGHT. CLYDESDALES FAVOURED BY ONE VOTE.' The Timarn Borough Council had a long discussion on the question of purchasing new buses, at their meeting last night. The Bus Committee reported as follows: - Mr F. Baker offered to demonstrate the suitability of a Ford brie-ton chassis for bus purposes.-7-Received. Adams Ltd. quoted'two Stewart oneton chassis at £550 each, less 10 per cent.—Received. Inglis Bros, wrote extending _ their offer of two Clydesdale" chassis ■ till the end of the month. Recommendation: That the Cbmmiir tee's recommendation of April 9 and May 7, recommending the\purchase;of two Clydesdale chassis be adopted: Councillor Doyle dissented. Councillor Shirtcliff said it was un-"; fortunate that Councillor Doyle was unable to he present that night. But he was in bed, under . doctor's orders, and as a matter of courtesy he (the speaker) thought they should defer consideration of the question' of new" buses till nest meeting. Mr Doyle had taken a keen interest in this matter; he had further information to give, and should be given an opportunity to place it before 'the Council. ..' | Councillor Washer said he was sorry that this had been brought forward. The Bus Committee had been considering the matter for two years, and it was time that finality was reached. The Committee had threshed the matter out thoroughly and had arrived at the deliberate conclusion that two Clydesdales should be purchased. It was a reflection on the Committee to be told that they were in the wrong. They did not pose as experts, but had sent their expert to the North Island to inspect all the buses available, and they must be guided by his ; advice. Councillor Washer proposed the adoption of the report.

Councillor ShirtclifE said they could not adopt the report till they had considered all its clauses. Councillor Satterthwaite expressed disappointment at the report of the committee who, he understood, had promised to go into the proposal to purchase three one-ton Ford chasses. It seemed, however, that the Committee had not done this, and wanted the Council to swallow the Clydesdale purchase proposal, lock, stock and barrel. Mr Baker of the Ford Company had offered to give them a demonstration of the capabilities of the Ford one-tou chassis, and he (the speaker) wanted much fuller information before voting on the matter. He would certainly not vote for the adoption of the committee's report that night. Councillor All church said the Committee had gone into the matter with, the Bus Engineer, and they should rely on their expert advice. Councillor Murphy said he was with Councillor Satterthwaite in this matter. He wanted the fullest information before lie would vote on the proposed expenditure of £I4OO. He wanted to see a demonstration of the capabilities of the Ford bus and one was offered them. It was foolish to say that they must take the word of their expert as final. Two years ago the Council were advised by their experts to purchase a traction engine for £6OO, and if they had taken that advice they would have fallen in very badly. He was satisfied that the best proposition so far offered was the Ford one-ton chassis. Councillor Hurdley thought it a reflection on the Committee not to accept their report. - ■ Councillor Donnelly said that was rubbish. If they had to accept everything the Committees recommemlded they might as well hand over the whale of the business to the Committees. There could be ipo reflection on a Committee not agreeing with all it proposed, and the Council should bia "sportdng" enough to hold the matter over till Councillor Boyle could be present. He had a godd proposition to pn't before them, and it should be thoroughly gone into.

Councillor Washer said thift Committee had gone into the matter when, Councillor Doyle was present, and. no argument that would hold water had been brought forward. A Ford chassis; would not suit tihe Council's requirements. Councilor Satterthwaite proposed that the matter be "held over for a fortnight to enable a demonstration to be lie-di of the Ford and Sbewßrt types. •Councillor Murphy secondic-d this. Councillor Allcnurch said they qould not get a demonstration of the Clydesdale, and the Bus Engineer told thlem; the Ford was no good. Councilor Sealey said the Council should be guided by their Bus Engineer in such a matter, and he. could see no reason for' delaying vlie proposed purchase. He would back up the report of tlie Committee. Councillor Satterthwaite said they required more informaftion. The Committee had been offered a demonstration of a Ford dhiassis, and they should accept it. A lot iof momey was involvted, and the Council should be very careful. The motor business was in the evolutionary stage; new and better types were continually being introduced, and the Council should get the best value for theif money.

Councillor Washer said they wjere losing money by delay antt tjhiey could not afford to dilly-dally any longer. The Committee had been considering the matter for the last six months; they had sent their Bus Engineer tio the NoriJh Maud, and he told them tJhiaitj the Clydesdale was iihe best bus. They nrnsb take his aldyice just ae they took the advice of their doctor or their lawyer. Councillor; Hugjbson deplored the proposal for further delay. Councillor Doyle had put his proposal before the Council at the previous meeting, as clear as day, bujt it was plain that the Ford would not do for the Council's requiremente. The FoAI would only carry 20 passengers, wlhereas the Clydesdale would carry 32. Moreover' the Ford was not heavy enough', and tlhere was no question but thiajfc the Clydesdale was the most suitable. Councillor Hurdley said it would be a waste of money to give £I6OO or £I7OO for buses to run for a couple of years rfcill the trams came along. Moreover, the Clydesdale was an untried bus, and they could not afford expensive experiments. The Bus Engineer was called in and! astotd to address the meeting on the subject. Tihe Engineer did this, his remarks being taken in Committee. He stated •that it did not matter to him if the Council ordered a fleet of wh«9lbarraws, and his recommendation of the Clydesdoie, bus was an unbiassed recommendation after consideration of alll the vehicles obtainable. Councillor Sh'rtcliff produced a Clydesdale pamphlet and lead from i!i> to show t!hat the Clydesdale people recommended for passenger work tftia Clydksdalje L3O, -whereas the Council's Bus Engineer recommended the Clydesdale L 45. The Engineer said that L3O was too light, and he had turned it dawn for that reason. Councillor Shirtcliff said the fat* remained 'that the Clydesdale people recommended L3O for passenger work. In reply to. Councillor Murphy the' Engineer said he had not heard of a case i.ni which the Cllydesdalle hnd proved I a failure. | Councillor Murphy said that tlus En-1 ginecr .might hciaa- of one later on. ■

The Mayor 'expressed the opinion that tSie Ford one-ton chassis would not carry a sufficient numter of passengers. Councilor Murphy asked whether the Bus Committee had decided where they were to get the money for these buses. Councillor W'asher (as chairman of thie ComuiLttea), said that was for the Council to decide. The people of Timaru wanted the buses, and the Council should find the money. The Mayor said the money would come out of the general fund Councillor Murphy s aid tlba Council were nearly banfarupt now. Councillor Satterthwaite's motioni Ahat the matter be deferred for a demonstration <rf the Ford and iihe Stewart was tnem put and los%. Those voting for it were:—Councillors Satterthwaite Murphy, Shir'lcliff' and Donnelly." Against:— Councillors Sealey, "Washer, Hughsoii, Foster and Alldhurch. Councillor Hurdley idid not -vote. , Councillor Shirtcliff tlhen proposed, and Councillor Murphy seconded, that three Ford one-ton chassis be purchased at *n cost, of £367 each.

The Engineer said the Ford could not be put on the road in a condition .that the Council would not be ashamed of it for less than £435 each. Councillor Shirtcliff said he did not agree with the Engineer. The Engineer said that !T xrie Council went in for the Fords they would be taking on an experiment which had been tried nowhere else in the world. Councillor Shirtcliff voiced a strong plea for the purchase of three Fords instead of two Clydesdales. If they sold their Air-gyle bus and set this against the purchase, the cost of the two Clydesdales would be £1405, whereas they could get three Fords at a net cost of £7OO. Three Ford buses properly used in the slack hours of the day, and the heavy buses used in rush times would enable them to cater for the public better than at present, and if they went in for the Fords they would save some hundreds of pounds, not only in initial outlay hut also in road - maintenance. The Council should aim at saving the ratepayers' money, and they had a chance of effecting a considerable saving in this matter. Councillor _ Hughson warned the Council against acting against thenexpert advice.

Councillor Donnelly asked if he was to understand, as a new Councillor, that it was their duty to do precisely what their officers told them. to do. If that were so they might as well give up. The Mayor said it was dangerous to act against the advice of their expert advisers. Councillor Murphy: Then the Councillors might as well resign and hand over the business to their officers. The Mayor said that if they were dissatisfied with their Engineer's advice they could get outside expert advice. Councillor Donnelly said he did not agree with the Mayor. Councillors could have the greatest respect for the opinion of their exports and still have an opposite opinion of their own. Councillor Satterthwaite said that he was out for saving the ratepayers' money, and even if they accepted the Engineer's estimate of the cost of the Ford cars he would still say that they were the best proposition under a proper time-table. They all knew that the Ford was a good car, and if the one-ton truck was as good as the Ford car the Council would be well served. The motion for the purchase of three Fords was then put and lost, the voting being: For. Councillors Satterthwaite, Shirtcliff, Donnelly, and Murnhy. Against, Councillors Sealey, "Washer, Allchurch, Hughson, and Foster. Councillor Hurdley did not vote, explaining that he did not do so because he had not been at the Committee meeting when the pros and cons were discussed.. ■-•' ■=-.-■ -■•■-■ ■ NOTICE OF "MOTIONS " ''" Councillor .Murphy immediately gave notice of his intention to move at next meeting that this motion be rescinded. The Mayor said that this would not hold up the business.