THE COUNTY COUNCIL AND THE MINISTER,

Timaru Herald, Volume LXXXII, Issue 12844, 30 November 1905, Page 6

THE COUNTY COUNCIL AND THE MINISTER,

MR HALL'JONES EXAMINED. At his meeting of electors at the Levels ■on Tuesday night, before commencing his political speech; Mr Hall-Jones introduced *he subject of the " J3200 rote." He -was jpained r by what had happened it, and desired, he said, to deal with it at once, and explain it more fully than he &ad done before.. He premised his remarks by sayiag that he received, in the course of a year, thousands of letters from chairmen -and clerks of local bodies; and no matter whether -the writer was friend -or foe, they : all received the same, attention, -and a "courteous- reply. Was it not reasonable to suppose that an application from Iris own constituency should receive a little more than the usual attention? He relerred to' two votes of £250 each, given in response to a . request of the late Mr! Duncan McLaren.-V The' only direct communication he. bad, had from the Levels County Council since he took charge of : the Ro^V' was in connection with roa&.V The Department was - to-pay £ISOO towards; these .roads; the whole' sum had been authorised;, and aiow it was increased by this £2OO, to pro•ride for>anything.which might have been overlooked. Mr Hall-Jones then read the letter dated October 3rd, 1905, in which Mr A. C. Pringle made, a request for.,a ■vote towards forming the Fairviewyßriggs' arig-zag road, " seeing that the Government has-helped local-bodies with differ--eat road works, and that the Levels County ■ratepayers have not asked for much.". This ■was similar to a great many offici'al/.re-: and tiMrusual procedure .was to fof -'. ward the letters to his officer in charge,' for a report. Gosiing s eo late, there was no time to comply with this; it was about tie last application received in the session. What pained him was that there should lie any misunderstanding over it. It ■should not b« termed an electioneering vote. Mr McLaren's applications were granted just after the elections; and he wanted to as 7 sure them that if he had used the Public Works Fund for electioneering purposes,. -they would have come off very,much better. With respect to the applications for Levels roads, which it was said were sent to him, he said again he never received any letter ;er application from the Levels Ctounty Council that had not received due attention, and in nearly every case with some result. He had the original application on behalf ,cf those roads. It was dated May 11th, 1903. It-never came to hi tar presumably it • went to Mr Wither; but at that time the speaker was not in charge of the Roacs Department; he was not advised of it, and' must be held free from 3)lame. He never saw these items till he sent Mo Wellington for the original folio. If he hadjreceived the application, he would have done what he. could, for it needed «nly v that someone would suggest . something' for the good of the district to secure 3iis help. Tie Levels had a goods-shed that they had appljed to ihim for; the anoney was granted--for one. at the Wash«lyke too. He hoped he had cleared the .atmosphere, "Z'7 OrMi; pked when Mr. Ha\l-Jones .took over the Roads Department, - On the Ist of Jury, 1903. The applied lion came in nearly two months before, on the form used under the Hon. T. Y. Dunscan's administration of the Department; |tnd it was probably dealt with by Him. "In reply to Mr Orbell's q-aestjtfn, he said the applications were dealt with* on receipt by the .Department, unnecessary works struck out, and the rest submitted to the Minister and placed upon the esti■snates as they came along. The application all printed on one page, consisted of two parts. The first line contained two items of protective, works, and "five of works on main roads, totalling £2300. The second list was headed," The following grants are" asked for on roads intersecting the Levels Estate to be taken over by the Council early next year." . Five grants were put on the list,., totalling £1950, Mr Orbell pointed- out "the latter portion, saying that as a large addition of road work wouid be rs-.-Jarred, and the estate had not been.roaded to the same extent as other parts, this special application was made. Was no notice ever taken of that after Mr- Hall-Jones took charge ? .■-•■'

Mr Hall-Jones repeated he had never seen the document till he received it from Wei* lington on Monday. .1 Mr Orbell: .Then no notice -was taken., »l it? ':,'.?' ;Mr :Hall-Jones: The department never sent it on. ; They may not have thonfeltf the;grants necessary. - ■<£ OTbe'l: Why, then, wjis Mr Humi 3»hnes instructed to interview the Council in; reference to .this? (Applause.) Yotf -were of the Roads Department a year or so before,that; he carae in 1904. Mr Hall-Jones explained that Mr Humphries was an officer of the Lands and Survey Department, and not of the Roads Department; and as the lands and survey dealt with the cutting: up of the estate". they also did the road-making, under the Tttvids Department. Mr Obeli contended that as the applications were all on ore sheet, the second half hnve been seen and sent on somewhere. The Cnunc'l were notified, long before the receipt of the £ISOO grant, that Mr Hnm*ihne* wns cominp. and therefore it musrt fove been known that the app'joation was (Appose, and cries of " R I7D i* *o."l "Fow could one part cf the sheet be -OTetlooked ?

- Mr Hall-Jones said that perhaps it was thought' that the £ISOO was enough. Mr Orbeil: Had-that, not-to go .through Parliament? ...,.;:.. -Mr Hall-Jones sadd no; it was paid by the department without a vote. He thought they would .find that these roads were some of those included,in.the £3200, to which the department contributed £ISOO. (Oh, you are shuffling.) No, there was no shuffling. . '.... ■■; ... ~.;•..;:,.-.: :Mr Orbeil: The other local bodies got these forms,, and ; sent in their applications. All could not be dealt with in the . two months. before. Mr Hall-Jones took charge. Waimate got.£Boo. or-£IOOO,-the Levels not a sixpence. "" ; ■■-Mr Hall-Jones: I'm satisfied that all those counties wrote to the member for their .district.,'., .. ■ ..-.- ..•.•!■■ Mr Orbell: That's.a wrong principle.! When forms are sent to the Councils, they i should be dealt with without favour. Mr Hall-Jones : These were so dealt with. They went to Mr Duncan. Some came at one time and some.at another. .-■ Mr; Orbell: There's, :no 'getting : away from it; all is pn one.sheet, and the outcome was that 'Mi Humphries came to see the Council, aud/went witn them through the whole of the roads. ," He said -the amount must be cut down to a £ for £ subsidy 0n.£3200:/ We asked for a straightout grant, not a'subsidy.". >: Mr Ball-Jones jepeated. that the estate was being administered by. itie Survey Department. . .:.-, ... ;- . , :\!.

Mr Ji Mahony said he' had it on the word of the Waimate county: engineer., that; that county applied/for a. similaramount at the same time, and got part",of it.... ;.-.; • v \ Mr Hall-Jones said that ..hx proportion/ to the application, the; Levels with £ISOO came off-as "well as: Mackenzie, and. Waimate. "' . ■ '■' ' . Mr Mahony: You have been making-a statement throughout the, country that the Levels never applied:? for^th^'mbhey. Mr Hall-Jones: T have said they never applied to me. , ■ ■,■ Mr Mahony contended that Mr HallJones being in- or, at least member for the district, should have been sufficient. (Hear, hear.) ..■....,: .r, - - . Mr Hall-Jones : ; T'have 1 ' enough to do to attend to my'.own department without prying into my colleagues'..business, .without communication.from the.county direct. , . A Voice: .What do we-send-.you for?To look-after the."business' commnnicated to me. ~';.' : ; : ;' ';'■''■ ''''..*',' : ■..:■■ ■ Mr Mahony said Mr, Humphries visit jmplied Mr Hall-Jones's knowledge. .('Mr Hall- Jones : I, haye. nothing to do with Mi- Humphries; he; is in another department. Mr Mahony said it was as well the public should know that the local bodies are ignored and that requests must go. through the representatives. In reply to Mr Mahony, Mr. Hall-Jones eaid-there_was no regular rule for the spend-! of ; subsidies ; the bodies receiving therm would' spend them' as they thought fit. (Mr Mahony: This is a novel idea.) —He' had no control as -to • the way the subsidies are spent. ; Mr Mahony objected to parallel comparisons being and" those granted :on "Mr McLaren's application: T^ 6 latter was for a main road.

The Minister said it certajnly was a. mistake to make thegj parallel., La" Mr McLarerj'a. easeV'a - alongside the road. Grants for .-■• roads: running parallel to railways were seldom made. The only justification for the, granting: of. '. Mr McLaren's application-was the heavy traffic •caused by the Pareora settlement. "Otherwise tfe? claim for the other road was the stronger. ' \ Mr Mahony asked why the Council had not received all the £lsoo.:that was granted. They had entered into engagements involving all of it. , ;:■■-'

Mr Hall- Jones said thai tsfe whole amount ■was now plus 'tfie £2OO grant. Mr Mahony brought up th* matter of the roads in the settlement, formed by the Government and gazetted,- but not taken over becaus* they did nonconform to the' Council's Standard as thoae.of private.inttJvidussTs frail' to.': The-Restate had: been leaded |6 for theroads; and he pointed thfe '■put so that, the settlers- could- know nfeir position. The roads "were not finished, and though gazetted, the Council had not # spent anything on them. Mr Hall-Jones said if Mr Mahony wanted to make a speech, he ; should , have called and addressed the meeting himself. (Great uproar;); \ ~j: '■£' .■- ■.■■: \ Mr Mahony ~HaU-Joies had reflected on the Counbil in saying: they had, parsed the revaluation; he going, by |kei::sap^Brv»pjirto^''-". ; J:.". -.'"..-v ",.'■;•'•; ;:mr>^HallrJodeVV : •£'iaid ! no such 'thing, and am;npt reported done so. I thae revaluations were &?Jkal bodies,.and; made 'SjS&Pnes"iab<mt ; tous before speaking ;foTm^ r was at the request of the Department, and said so. It was in, print. -said that you are saying whatfis absolutely untrue. Those who want to judge: between, Mr Mahony and. me should see the report in the "Timaru Herald." Mr Mahony : I'm taking the report in the. "Herald. (Uproar.). Someone called : " Who called this meeting to-night.?"-", --.'\ -].'/■ Mr Hall-Jones: I. think :; T • did. He thanked Mr Qrbdl for allowing him to use the granary, and said that if he was treated,' t<s a man he would treat his opponent like. t. .maii., 4 He objected to people saying . be pnt money on the estimates for electioneering purposes. Men who did that were 1 not worthy of the name . (Great laughter:)

• The questions that had arisen were then deferred till:.after his address proper. This he then delivered. At the'conclusion Mr Mahony reverted to the question of valuation, and said the inference to be drawn from the candidate's Kerrytown speech was that the Council had some control over the matter. ■ Mr Hall-Jones : Jfo, no. But the Councils often ask ns to make a revaluation. They have no legal power. Mr Mahony said that the present valuation was novr attributed to the Council. He then asked why the valuation of a county was not completed in one year. Mr Hall-Jones said this was because the work was too great to be finished. He quite agreed that it should all be done in a year if possible. He was in favour of local bodies appointing valuers for their riding valuations. Mr Orbell apologised for asking further questions; he did it in the interests of the county. (Mr Hall-Jones: Quite right.) In case Mr Hall-Jones did not quite understand the position, he again referred to the application form. He had said he\did not come into charge till six weeks after the application was made, and that the grants were made through the Survey Depart--ment. Do you take any credit for having this £ISOO granted to the Council? Mr Hall-Jones : Well, the money was provided. " ■

Mr Orbell • Do you take any credit for it? Mr Hall-Jones: I could not say, because I do not know the conditions of the roads. If they were formed the Lands and Survey Department would be entitled to the credit. * Mr Orbell: Then we may say it's not through your influence at all that this grant was made;, it came from the-Lands and Survey Department?— Quite correct. I don't wish to take any credit where it is not due. This was arranged for before I came into charge. Mr Orbell: Then the public money is placed in the hands of the Survey Department to. do what they like Tvith?—lt has to be in charge of someone. Mr. Orbell spoke of the forming of the Roeewill roads. Mr Hall-Jones said that beyond that £ISOO he was the man to blame. Mr Orbell asked why the roads had not been properly formed and shingled. The Minister said the department which cut up the estate also had to make the roads up to a certain point. Then his department came in. They were now just on the'border line. He thought it would depend upon the condition of the lands for settlement funds. Probably the. funds available were exhausted and no further assistance would come from this department. Mr Orbell said that the Levels estate when cut up was let out at such a price that remained to spend ,on roading. There' should be no shortage of funds ; the settlers had already paid for the roads. (Hear, hear and "irproar.) Mr Hall-Jones said he did not know the of the loading before* If there was money left, it could be spent on roa'ding. • If- it "was 'exhausted- the roads. would come into his department., •Mr Orbell 6aid it was clear to him that the Government .would gazette the roads whether they were,finished or not, and throw them on the CounciL The Council would refuse to take them. . Mr Hall-Jones.: Your refusal does-not count. -_.•■•-■-..

| Mr Orbell: The Government have money \to do tlie work; if they don't do it they are putting it into their pocket—not their personal pockets, but the collective poc!;ket.- ... ; ■., ■■■-.■ - Mr Hall-Jones: If the lands have been loaded, and there is money left, it is the duty of the department to. see that the settlers have that money expended. And you are going to get it, "boys. I have met chairmen of Councils and deputations in all parts of the colony, and have always got along famously with them; and I'll get along all right with you, too, Mr Orbell. I am going to inquire into the position of that loading account, and get Mr Withers, if I can't do it myself, to go over these roads and see what is wanted. I have a pretty good knowledge of roads myself. . He; felt it an honour, he continued, that he had once been a member of the County Council, and Mr Mahony's reference to him the other-day pleased him. It was as much an honour as to be a borough councillor or a member of Parliament. He would get a report with regard oo the roads, ascertain what funds there were, and see what required to be "done ill- Mahony : I take it you will have those roads made to the-required.standard:of the Council; will you be prepared-to say so? Mr Hall-Jones : I shall see that the roads are inaae good enough for the settlers. That is my answer, and you must be satisfied with it. He would not commit.himself definitely to something he did not know.