GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Timaru Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 2740, 5 July 1883, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(Press Association Telegram.) , Wbllinqtok, July 4. ' LEGISLATIVE CODNUIL. , The Council met at 3 30 p.m. , BILLS BEAD. . The New Zealand University Act Amendment Bill was read a first time, and the , Married Women'a Property Bill a third time. ( TIIIBEB BESBHVES. On tlis motion of Mr Ohamberlin, a return , was ordered of all land reserved for the growth and preservation of timber.} j THE BABBIT NUISANCE. , Mr Ohamberlin moved that the adminis- , tration of the Rabbit Aet in Auckland is un- £ satisfactory. , Sir Or. Whitmore moved the addition of tbe i words "to the Hon. Mr Ohamberlin," but , withdrew the amendment at the request of , I the Speaker. Mr Ohamberlin, speaking to his motion, ( oomplaioed that tbe Babbit Inspector of the ( Baglan district had acted tyrannically towarr • himself. I The motion was rejected without debate. BILLS OF BXCHANQB. ' The Oouocil again vent into Committee on J

the Bills of Exchange Bill, which was passed through and read a third time. The Council adjourned at 3.45 p.m. until Friday, there beiDg no business to-morrow. HOUyK OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30 p.m. BKPLIKB TO QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Tole, the Hon. Mr Johnston eaid it was not the intention of the Government to make a trial of the suggestion made by Mr Narle, of Auckland, for railway reforms. Eeplying to Mr J. Wileon, the Hon. Mr Jobneton eaid that it hbs not intended to give special inducements for railway paslengers to take return tickets. The Government having a monopoly of the railway traffic, there was not the same reason for offering inducements in that direction as companies had, and they were more inclined to lower the ordinary fareß so that the advantages of cheap traffic might be secured to all. Beplying to Mr Stevens, the Hon. Mr Johnston said all necessary instructions had been ia>ued to the surveyors at present engaged in making a survey of the North Island trunk railway route, and Government had no doubt but these instructions would abundantly secure the object in view, of ascertaining the best route. R' plying to Mr Peacock, the Hon. Mr Johnston said the attention of the Government had been called to a new system for permanent way for railways, patented by Mr Otway, an officer in the Public Works Department at Auckland, but they considered the present system the most suitable for this country. Heplying to Mr Daniel, the Hon. Mr Johnston raid the permanent way on the railway from Oolac Bay would be finished about Augus'i and an effort would ba mads to open a section of the line as early thereafter as possible. Replying to Mr Pjstlethwaite, the Hon. Mr Johnston raid the question of fencing rnilway lines was under the consideration of tbe Government. Id cases where land bad been taken and compensation paid, be believed that the estimated cost of fencing wai included. The cost of fencing would probably amount to £100,000, and Government was desirous of ascertaining if it could not relieve itself from that burden. Beplying to Mr Turnbull, the Hon. Mr Johnston said the amount paid for repairing the railway lines damaged by floods, was included in the monthly publication of the cost of maintenance of the railway lines, but the exact amount of such damage pas not kept separate from the other expenditure. Replying to Mr Turnbull, the Hon. M* Johnston said one contract amounting to £2000, had been let on the Albury and Fairlio Creek line aince August; last. It was for a btition and platform. Replying to Mr J. Buchanan, the Hon. Mr Johnston said arrangements were in progress with tbe view of providing better accommodation at the railway station at Napier. Replying to Mr Petrie*/ the Hon. Mr Rolleston eaid the Government did not at present intend to create a new land district for the Nelion south-west goldfields, but steps would be taken for improving tbe facilities at present in operation in that land district. Replying to Mr To Wheoro, the Hon. Mr Johnston said that the fencing of the Maori burial ground at Taurere was in the hands of the native agant at tha Thames, and the reason it had not already been done was known to the members. Beplying to Mr Barron, the Hon. Mr Pick said tbe Government did not intend amending the law so that no person shall have more than one vote in the election of members for the House of Representatives, nor yet did they intend to amend the Regulation of Elections Act, 1381, so as to extend the hours of polling. ReplyiDg to Mr O'Oallaghan, the Hon. Mr Bolleßton said the Government had already arrived at an interpretation of the Forest Tree Planting Encouragement Act 1871, so far as it affected Mr Wason's case, and a* they had all along acted on that interpretation, they saw no cause fur changiag their view that no one under the Act should receive over 250 aores. Replying to Mr Daniel, the Hon. Mr Johnston said that workmen employed by the Government sub-contractors were entitled to be paid fortnightly in cash, and it was their duty to look after their own rights in this respect. Heplying to Mr Oadman, the Hon. Mr Rolleston said that he had not had his attention directed to any necessity for a Mining Bill for mining for metals other than gold, but if such a necessity did exist, Government would be prepared to consider the question. Replying to Mr Allwright, the Hon. Major Atkins jn said that certain provisions had been made to prevent the overloading of ships. Harbormasters had authority to detain such ships, and Government could not see its way to go further in that direction at present. A Bill dealing with the question of boats and other matters would be brought down this session. Beplying to Mr Turnbull, the Hon. Major Atkinson said £40,000 of railway debentures were held by the Government Insurance Department as security for the £40,000 alluded to in the report of the Commission. The amount was repayable in 1300. Replying to Mr Turnbull, the Hon. Mr Dick said no complaints bad been made against Mr James Macdonald, the Sheep Inspector of South Canterbury, beyond the fact that he was rather too old and feeble for the work requiring to be dons under the Rabbit Act. The Government bad given him three months' notice, which was all they could allow by law, but probably the House if appealed to would deal more liberally with an old servant. Beplying to Mr Holmes, the Hon. Mr Johnston said that with the viewof facilitating the survey of the Canterbury West Coast Railway, survey parties would be started from the West Coast side to meet the party working up from the Bast aide of the range vid Cannibal Gorge, to as to complete the survey in three or four months. Replying to Mr Fish, the Hon. Mr Dick said the San Francisco mail contract expired in November, but arrangements had been made for its continuation for a further period of two years, with the right to terminate on three months' notice at the expiry of twelve months. The total cost was £43,000, from which £39,000 fell to be deducted, leaving a balance of £1000 odd payable by this colony. Replying to Mr Duncan, the Hon. Mr Johneton said there wai no reason to doubt that the arrangement with the Counties of Waimute and Waitak', the Government and the Duntroon Railway Company with regard to tbe traffic bridge over the Waitakt would be carried out. Beplying to Mr Duncan, the Hon. Mr Johnston said provision would be made for completing the work of laying the heavy rails on the Duntroon section of the railway. J?IBST BEADING. On the motion of the Hon. Mr Dick, the Adulteration Prevention Act Amendment Bill was introduced and read a first time. BESTBIOTIJfG LBAVE OP ABSBNCH. Mr Barron moved — " That in the opinion of this House, the permission extended to members to absent themselves for 6ve days during the sitting of Parliament without deduction from their allowance, in accordance with the resolution agreed to on the 25th August, 1874, should not apply to the last ten sitting days of any session, and that in addition to the proportionate deduction provided for in such resolution, a Bpecial deduction of fire guineas per day should be deducted from the honorarium of any member who absents himßelf during the last ten days of any session." He explained that he had brought forward a similar motion in 1880, and that » promise was then given by Sir John Hal], a member of the Government, that he would support the motion if again put forward. The Hon. Major Atkinson hoped members would not agree to the notion. It was proposed this session to deal with the whole question of the payment of members, and this question might be dealt with then. He thought it might be fairer to direct their attention to members who consume a large amount of time in useless talk. That might be fairer than to inflict a fine on members who might happen to be compelled, for urgent reasons, to leave. Mr Bhephard moved ai on amendment that all the latter clause of the motion be omitted. Mr George opposed the motion, staling thai the Government wan to blame for members going away before the close of the session. They despatched the Governmeat steamer some days before the prorogation.

Mr Turnbull supported the motion. I vra. a moat important question. In 1880, a the very close of tho session, and whei a number of members nad gone, most im portant proposals were brought down, and bu for tho determined resistance on the part o those remaining, serious injury would have re ■tilted. Mr Watt suggested that the impost shoulc apply to members absenting themselves a the beginning of the session, as well as at thi close. Mr Montgomery supported the motion. On a division the motion as amended wai lost by 25 to S3. BETDEN3. A large namber of unopposed orders foi returns were agreed to. THB WBST COAST BAIL-WAY. On the motion of Sir G. Grey, it wai agreed to go into Committee next Wednesday, to consider an Address to the Governor, to request His Eioellency to cause a sum to be placed on the Estimates for the construction of a railway for the connection of tho city of Ohristchuroh with the West Coaet of the Middle Island. The Hon. Major Atkinson reserved to tho Government the right of opposing tbe proposal when ngain brought up. " hansabd." Mr Feldwick moved tbat the number of copies of Bantard allowed to each member be increased from twelve to twenty copies. The Hon. Mr Dick objected, stating that it would involve an additional expenditure of £263, and the advantages were highly problematical. After some discussion, Mr Feldwick in reply, pointed ont that the expense of Mansard was largely swelled by the cost paid for correcting members' speeches, this matter costing nearly a third of the total amount, and he oontended that if the privilege was withheld of correcting speeches, then the coat of increasing the number of copies as proposed by this motion would be more than compensated. The House divided — Ayea 42, Noes 26, ond the motion was carried. SAILOB APPBBNTICBS. Mr Daniel moved that it is desirable that vessel* registering in New Zealand should carry a number of boys as apprentices in proportion to their tonnage, and that the attention of the Government be directed to this matter, with a view to the necessary .legislation. Mr Shepliard and the Hon. Major Atkimon objected, and the motion was negatived on the voices. MOAT, aOTBBNiIKHT. Mr Montgomery gave notice of the following motion :—" That the existing gystem of central government bas failed to realise tbe results anticipated, and that the promises and arrangements made at the time of the abolition of the Provinces have not been fulfilled ; that in consequence of tbis centralisation policy much discontent prevails throughout New Zealand ; that to ensure economy and efficiency in the administration of local affairs, it is necessary tbat such local affairs, including publio works, should be withdrawn from the control of tbe central Government and vested in local governing bodies elected by districts having community of interests." He said he understood Ministers would be prepared to give him an early opportunity for discussing this motion. The Hon. Major Atkinson said he understood that Mr Montgomery had no wish that it should be accepted as a no-nonfidence motion, but if carried it might have the same reßult. There was no wish, however, in the meanwhile to stop business, so that he would give Tuesday next tor its ditcussion. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 7.30 p.m. XOCATj OPTION. Mr M. W. Green moved the second reading of the Local Option Extension Bill. Mr Fish argued that the Bill was one which proposed a startling change in the law as at present existing, and with the view of enabling the country to understand its object he moved the adjournment of the debate to that day three weeks. Mr Levestam supported the amendment for the adjournment, and argued that local option bad been a failure and that there was really no necessity for iti extension as proposed by the Bill. Mr J. W. Thompson defended the local option principle. He denied that the population was indifferent to its operation, and the number of petitions presented that day in support of local option completely negatived that contention. The chief feature of the Bill was the general vote, and that, he cinteaded,wasa wise and prudent step, inasmuch as it was women and children who suffered most from tbe abuse of tbe liquor traffic. He had not much hope of legislation enforcing temperance, but the Bill was in a right direction. The House divided on the question of adjournment, which was carried. ANNBXATION AND CONPBDBBATION. Sir G. Gray moved the second reading of the Annexation and Confederation Bill. It was a most important measure, and dealt with a question of wide ialerest. It proposed a solution of grave difficulties and it would he beneficial to New Zoaland in many ways. There lay in our vicinity many islands of great fertility, capable of producing all the staples and luxuries of life. With these we could carry on a most lucrative trade, but at present could enter into no political relations with these islands. The early settlers here had paved tbe way for annexation of this kind, as we had opened our character and educational endowments to the natives of all tbe islands in the Pacific. The Home Government had made a move in the same direction as he proposed, Mr Gladstone a few days ago recommending an almost identical course. The labor traffic and smuggling had sprung up in connection with these islands, and if not checked would cause us great trouble. The Bill only aimed at enabling the Government to appoint a Commission to negotiate for islands not occupied by a foreign Power joining Nett Zealand, if a wor broke out with Eoropa. It would be most desirable we should have the power to arm vesiels and unite for tbe purpose of mutual protection, thereby providing for our own safety and _ protection. The Commission would negotiate and report terms for con> federation, with a view of applying to the British Parliament and getting the terms sanctioned. The Hon. Major Atkimon would not object to tbe second reading, but asked that the Bill be referred to the Select Committee already appointed on ths annexation question. He found nothing in the Bill in the direction stated by Sir George Grey. It empowered the Government to do without reference to the House what he thought should not be done without special reference to Parliament. It was a power which should not be left to the Governor. The Bill only provided for the Government negotiating. Tbey had at present full power to negotiate with these islands, so that they could do without tho Bill precisely what the Bill proposed. The Bill, however, did not appropriate any money for the purpose. Sir George Grey agreed that the Bill should be referred to the Committee. Thia Bill authorised the Governor to act in caie of emergency, when perhaps they could not get the House together. He|wanled the Governor to be able to act temporarily when any emergency arose, as the Sovereign acted at Home, but that otherwise nothing definite should be done until it was sanctioned by the Houbo, The Governor would only oollect information for the House, and leave the House to say what was to be done. He had no desire to see tbe Governor do anything tbat properly belonged to that House, but of course tht House would have to make good any expenditure. The motion for the second reading wai carried. Sir George Grey then moved tbat the Bii be referred to tbe Committee already ap pointed, and this waa also carried. AFFIBHATION BILL. Sir George Grey moved the second readloi of the Affirmation Bill. It was anothe really important measure, its object being t do away with oaths, and in lieu thereof t snbßtitute a simple affirmation. The earn penalties would be provided for false affirms tionß sb in the case of false oaths. The tim had come when a man should be enabled t Btand forth and .imply make an affirmatioz instead of, as at present, take an oath, or sa he had conscientious objections to do so. X pass inch a great measure would place Ne. Zealand in the van of progress and civili iation. The Bill was read a second time.

BIOHT HOTJBS BILL. Mr M. W. Green moved the second reading of the Regulation of Hours of Shopkeeprie and Others Bill. He would only ask that the Becond reading be parsed pro forma, nnd then allow the Bill to drop, so that the cnun-. try might have an opportunity for considering tbe matter, and if thought good it could come on again next session ' and be pasted into law. Mr Fish thought tbe House should not be asked to affirm a principle like this. It really seemed to him that Liberalism had gone mad when the great aim of Liberals soemed to be to interfere as much as possible with the liberty of the subject. The Bill was a most unfair and tyrannical measure. A large, well established shopkeeper might find it convenient to c'ose at an early hour, while the small dealer might find it ruin to close up his premises at that hour. He moved it be read that day six months. Mr For^us seconded and spoke in support of the amendment. The Bill never had a chance of becoming law, and it was utterly wrong to take up their time in such a meaningless way. The proposals of the Bill were most tyrannical and ought to be discountenanced. Mr Joyce supported the Bill. Although the early closing movement here and else where had a great deal of moral support and •ympathy, because one or two raorcenary people kept open, the whole object, laudable in itself, was defeated. A measure of this kind was all that was wanted to make that and other such movements a Bucceis. Mr Levestam denied that the early closing movement had failed from this cause. It answered admirably in Nelson. Mr Button opposed tho Bill and Mr Seddon supported it. Mr J. B. Wbyte supported tho principle of the Bill. It would enable two-thirds of the House making the other third shut up. Mr Hutchison opposed and Mr Petrio supported the Bill. The House divided on the question of tbe second reading— Ayes 22, Noes 41, and the amendment for reading it that day six months wao carried. THB CBEDIT SYSTEM. Mr Bathgate moved the Becond reading of the Bale of Goods by Retail Bill. The object of the Bill was to check the system of indiscriminate credit which existed amongst retail dealers, who trusted to the law to enforce their claims. The present co operative nystem was due to the efforts of a few industrious persona to live without doing their business on the credit system. There was no end to the benefits Sowing from the ready money system, at there was no end to the evils flowing from an indiscriminate credit system. If it could be shown that the sellingof goods by retail on credit was injurious to tbe public, it was wrong for the law to protect theee transactions. Tbe passing of the Bill would do away with the necessity for a bankruptcy law, and would otherwise save a lot of money at present thrown aw«y in legal and other expenses. Tbe principle of the Bill was not new, as it already existed in the law relating to the retailing of intoxicating liquors. Mr Munro argued that credit was a necessity of the commercial sjßtem, and denied that the legal recourse was to a great extent relied upon in the giving of credit. He moved 'that it be read that day six months. The question was put that the Bill be read a second time— Ayes 18, Noes 48, and the amendment was carried and tbe Bill thrown out. OONSTITtTTIOH AOr AMBKDMBNT. Sir G. Grey moved the second reading of \ the Constitution Act Amendment Bill. His task was a difficult one. He was about to ask this one branch of the Legislature to sanction i the abolition of the other Chamber. He looked upon that branch as an incubus and a hindrance to the well-being of the community, and in seeking its abolition he was actuated by a sense of public duty. The Legislature of this and other colonies formerly consisted of a Governor and one body. A prejudice, however, existed against a single Chamber, and it was attempted to graft on another body. The only use attributed to this second Chamber was that it induced careful legislation. He believed that was a mistake. He believed that tbe experiments made in the colony of one Chamber were successful, and that the Provincial Legislatures succeeded so well was an argument in support of that contention. It had also worked well in South Africa and tome countries of Europe. Great embarrassment arose from the creation of this second Chamber. He bad himself met with great difficulties from it. He had had to modify his measures, knowing that if he did not do so, they would not pass the socond Chamber. There were no distinct party lines in this ooloDy, so that a measure going through this House would not be taken up in the other Chamber with the same certainty or ohance of success. Again, he believed that the legislation of the other Chamber was unfair. He believed that the legislation in this Houte had been rejected in the other Chamber without any reflection. They found that Bills passed by the House were thrown out by that Obamber only to be reintroduced there as if emanating from the Counoil, and passed by them, giving them all the apparent oredit of having created the very measures they had first rejected. Tho members of the House of Lords at Home were all men retired from business, and who could exeroise no influence, aj could bankers or heads of money lending companies as members of the other Chamber here. In this colony it was different, the members of the second Chamber were conneoted for the most part with business, and to a great extent they exercised a monetary influence on tbe members of this House. There could be no comparison between the House of Lords and their Upper Obamber as now constituted. He asked was not the whole legislation of the country moulded by the Upper House. When a Ministry was formed colleagues had to be chosen from that Home, and the Government had therefore to modify their opinions in deference to the opinions of their colleagues in the Upper House. Then again the practice of members passing from House to House was a breach of comtitutional law. He contended that any one having taken the oath of allegiance to his Sovereign in tbe Upper Houte had uo right to abandon that position and come down to the Lower House, knowing that when it suited his purpose he would return to the place again from whence he came. The large number of members in tbe Legislative Council weakened the choice of new representatives, and by that means another great injustice was wrought. Again the town in whioh tbe Legislature metwasalmostsuretobe over-represented in that Obamber ; in fact, a fourth or a fifth of tbe Chamber consisted of members representing one district. Ministers had their men constantly at their side, and in that way unjust legislation was brought about. By abolishing this Chamber all those evils would be obviated. They were real evils, and real good would result from the ohange he sought. The prevailing opinion at present amongst ab!e minds was that a second Chamber was quite unnecessary. Such also were his own convictions, tbe convictions of a lifetime and the result of deep thought and researob. The result of his observations had been that all second Chambers, even the House of Peers at Home, obstructed and delayed sound legislation and all reform in the interests of the people, and in that way it tended to evil legislation. He felt sure that tha House could do all the work, and do it more efficiently by itself. The Hob. Major Atkinson said there were two reasons why tho motion should not be passed. The first was, the measure was of such large importance that it must be dealt with by the Government if dealt with at all. He Baid the mover had not shown any reason why it should pass. There was no statement that the colony demanded it. Tbe objection that certain Bills had not pasted was BOt sufficient reason, because the Houte of Lords had legislated badly. There was no similarity between that body and the Legislative Council. There was certainly not any reason for believing that the Council wonld legislate badly. He denied that the Legislative Council had any influence in the making or unmaking of a Government. He was altogether ignorant of any such influence being exercised. The objection of members having resigned and taken their seats in the Lower House and then perhaps gone back to the Oounoil, was not any objection, but on the contrary, an advantage. If the people wanted the service of gentlemen in the Council, it would be wrong to debar them from suoh service. It was always understood that the members of that

body were at liberty to resign, m.d it would be most unfair to the colony to debar them from that privilege. Sir George Grey had told them this Bill was a lifethought on his part. It was rather extraordinary that he should only como in at the eleventh hour and make known the thought. He, Sir George Grey, bad spoken to members of tho Legislative Council, without a word about this life thought and conviction, and ! had taken no action until the Government proposed to deal with the question. It was out of the question for a private member to interfere, whon he knew the Government intended to move in that very direction. It was announced in the Governor's Speech, and when that proposal was given effect to, would be the time for Sir George Grey to try and carry out Ma ideas on tbe subjec'. To propose a measure like thin after tbe declaration in the Governor's Speech, was quite unparliamentary. Tho question was of such large impoitance that Parliament would not be juatiGed in dealing with it until an appeal had been made to the country. That was what the Government proposed. He believed the country desired to see some change in the mode and construction of the Council, and Government would propose a. measure this session to take effect after the general election. Such being the case, he hoped Sir George Grey would seo his way to withdraw his Bill. If not, he would ftsk them to refuse to pass the motion, and to wait until tbo Government bad an opportunity of submitting its measure. Mr Mops taid he was a democrat, and because he was one, ho held that a second Chamber was necessary to secure the liberty and safety of the people. Such a Chamber was the very sheet anchor of tho State. It wa« necessary to control tho impetuous course of repreieatalive legislation. They loprescnted only for three years, and were liable to inexperierjee and other influence; and wliere woul 1 they be but for tho restraining influences of an older Chamber, ono not liable to bo superseded in such a short time ? Tbe cxistenco of two Chambers in a dotnocratio form of Government doubled the security. The Provincial Councils were not entrusted with the lives and liberties of the people. There tbe Bnalogy between theee and the Colonial Legislatures did not hold good. Thoy would search history in vain to find a country successfully governed by a single Chamber. Without a second Chamber thero would bo no stability in tho institutions of the colony, and the absence of such stability would damp energy and enterprise in every possible way. The second Chamber web nominated by the Government of the day, and its numbers were unlimited. That was a great check on its liability to abusa its power. Tbe colony was at present overshadowed with the influences of a great land company. He did not know when it would make its appearance, and it might bo when they were but a small House. In that case what was to save them but tho interference of the Legislative Council ? Tho nominated system was tho best he could conceive of. If they made large electoral districts, the result would bo that tho staid, quiet men they required would not undergo the trouble and toil of a candidature for such dietricts. Mr Levestam would oppose any attempt to alter the conßtitution of the Council from a nominated to an elective system. If that was what Government proposed, then he would rather support the Bill, and do away with that Chamber altogether. The Legislative Council at preasnt was under the control, to a certain extent, of the poople. Mr J. W. Tbomp.'on said they must boar in mind that tbo Council had invariably given way when it became evident the Lower House was determined to pass its measures. In the matter of constitutional changes like thir, it was necessary they should act with great caution. There were other constitutional changes looming in tho distance, and he thought that until the Legislature had its mind made up as to tho direction these changes should lake (hey should not bo in too great haete in this matter. There was a feeling in tbe mind of tbe country respecting the Legislative Council. Successive Governments were to blame for this. Had they been more careful a» to the class of men they placed there, this feeling would not have existed. Mr Fish felt that a change was necessary, but his mind was not yet made up as to what that change should be. He did not think that this radical change should be given effect to. In tbo first instance he rather thought any reform should be a gradual one. A portion of tbe Council might be nominated and part elected. It was a wrong thing to have members nominated for life. Ho supported the proposal of relegating the whole question to the next general election. Mr Georgo would support the Bill to teo what tbe Legislative Council would do with it when it got there. Mr Holmes would support the Bill,although in Committee he reserved the right to support alteratioos which he believed would bring it more into harmony with the views of the people. Mr Kelly admitted that a change was necessary, but the Bill was too radical. Instead .of life nomination, he thought nomination for a period of years would be an improvement. _ Again, he thought they should define certain districts, and if members were to be elected it should be done by the House. He would rather abolish the Council than eee it made elective by the people. Colonel Trimble thought that the only nay in which they could safely change the constitution of the Council at present was to limit the duration of office to say seven or ten years. There were a great many men in that Chamber who from age or otherwise were unfit for legislative duties, and he thought a change such as that indicated would meet with acceptance in the Council itself. Mr Montgomery did not consider that Sir George Grey went out of his way in introducing tho Bill. At the same time he acquietcod in the opinion that the whole question should be relegated, to the general election. The security talked of in consequence of the members of the Council being unlimited was a safety which to his mind suggested grave and serious abuses. Ho believed in two Chambers, and consequently this Bill did not meet bij views. Sir George Grey replied. Ho said the Treasurer had reproaohed him for bringing forward this measure, he being a private member. Ho could only say to the Government they could go to tbe country on their measure, and ho (Sir George Grey) would go on bis Bill and leave the country to judge between them. He could make good his assortion that members of tbe Legislative Council influenced the making and unmaking lof Ministries. One gentleman came down from that Chamber to make a Ministry and in latter days another gentleman took his seat in the Council as Premier. He would go on with his Bill, as he was cortain the peoplo of the colony were with it. The House divided— Aye* 11, Noes 35. The following is the division list : — Ayes, 11— Bracken, Buchanan J., Daniel, DeLautour, Feldwick, George, Grey, Harris, Smith, Swanson and Tole. Noes 35— Allwright, Atkinson, Barron, Beelham, Buchanan W. 0., Oonolly, Fitzgerald, Fulron, Green J., Green M. W., Hursthouse, Kelly, Larnaoh, Leo, Mackenzie F. W., Mollwraitb, MoMillan, Mitohellson, Montgomery, Morris, Moji, Munro, O'Oallaghan, Peacock, Pearson, Petrie, Postlethwaite, Rolleston, Sutter, Button, Thompson H, Thompson J. W., Trimble, Watt, Whyte J. B. Pairs :— For— Hutchison, Turnbull, Bathgate, Cadman, Seddon, Sheehan, Taiaroa, MoKonzio J., Holmes, Ivess, White W., Duncan, Joyco, Macdonold, and Brown J. 0. Againßt— Wynn-Williams, Wright, Mason, Diok, Brown, Whitaker, Hurst, Johnston J. 0., Johnston W. W., Leveetam, Wilson J. G., Bryco, Bhaw, Stevens, and Fergus. The Houss rose at 1.10 a.m.