THE COLONY'S PRISONS.

Taranaki Herald, Volume LIV, Issue 13499, 14 August 1907, Page 5

THE COLONY'S PRISONS.

DEBATE ON THE ESTIMATES.

REFORMS ADVOCATED. f

SHOULD GAOLS BE MOVED TO THE COUNTRY?

(Per Frew A«iociasion.) WELLINGTON, August 13. « There vt,&s considerate discussion it the House to-day |m the Prisons Bsti-

mates.

Mr Hoggj referring, to ;the treatment meted out to prisoners, said that if they were subjected to similar treatment to what settlers in thr- back-blocks h,ad *p put up, fet? prisoners' wojild return" to gaol. Ho? advocated thaj;. prisonerb should worK not only to maintain themselves, but* for the benefit of others. Particularly should th 4'- course be adop* ted in regard to wife desertion. Mr Laurenson urged -the. reform of "the present prilon system, which was obsolete, and h*ad been proved so in older" countries. 'It would be* better to spend a few pounds annually to effect the cure of criminal^. .•*..-* Mr Barclay urged that' scientific in-vestigation-should bo made with a view to reforming prisoners, rather than that huge sums should be spent off pmrishing them.

The Hon. T. Duncan said the prison system .in New Zealand was the best .in the world, so far as it went, but it did not go far enough. He advocated more prisoners being sent to the country to engage in tree-planting, and that those who could not be so treated should be put to a trade and made to work at it, not play. Mr Ell referred to the deaths' that haff recently taken place in gaols, and urged that sick prisoners suffering from excessive drinking should be sent to hospitals. Mr Massey said prisoners sent to tree planting should be short-sentence men with good records. It would be altogether wrong to send dangerous prisoners to the country districts tree-plant-ing. He urged that prisoners suffering from delirium tremens should not be sent to gaol, neither should they be sent to mental hospitals, but'sbme special provision should be made. He contrast^ ed the cost of prisoners' maintenance at Auckland with that at other gaols,; and asserted that at Auckland they were made to do useful work, which decreased the cost of maintenance. Mr McLachlan said they could not teach prisoners trades, as the various trades unions would be up in arms. He added that the workers, of New Zealand should not compete with prison labour, either of New Zealand or England, Germany, or America. Mr Laurenson said the reason for the smaller cost of the maintenanoVpf P T ?~ soners at Auckland was that the Auckland gaol contained more prisoners- tfiaift any other gaol. He urged -that prisoners should make shoes and clothing' for' use in the gaols. He added that the gaols should not be allowed to ,**irt within cities.

Mr Ell moved an amendment to reduce the vote by £1 as an indication that the time has arrived when gaols should be placed outside the cities. Mr Okey ,replying to Mr Laurenson, opposed the suggestion that New .Plymouth Gaol should be closed. There j were fo\f prisoners there, but they were doing good tfork. Mr Poole advocated fair punishment being meted out to offenders against; the law. He said jf seamen on British ships were treated in the same manner as prisoners in the gaols of New Zealand, they would be a much happier class of men. Referring to inebriates, he said he would give them some sort of luxury, and consign to prison the person who made the inebriates. i Mr Rutherford said it would not do to place the worst class of criminals tree-planting. Only the best class of prisoners should -be utilised for this purpose. He urged that prisoners should be used for the purpose of <mak- ( ing roads. . "■ • \ Mr Hanan asked what would be done with existing gaols if it were decided *to remove all prisoners to country gaols? They were of no use for any other purpose, and it would be a serious matter to build new gaols. Mr W. Fraser said the whole system j of reform must be in the classification of prisoners. Mr Wilford: "You can no more classify criminals than you can labourers." Continuing, Mr Wilford said he had had dealings with criminals for sixteen years, and he was convinced that sent i-j ment was lost on hardened criminals. Further, the best-behaved criminals were hardened criminals. Proceeding, he stated he had known of hardened criminals who had given a lifting hand to new prisoners. These hardened crimi- j nals realised they were in the ruck, and whilst ready to go back to gaol themselves, were willing to help new offend- j ers. He intended to support Mr Ell's ! amendment, as he considered gaols should not be allowed /to exist in cities.

Mr Laurenson said the worst prisoners to deal with were those who were continually in gaol. Mr Tanner said that while we had such exhibitions as the Kelly Gang going about the country, we were tending to make criminals, and he thought the time had arrived when some .censorship should be exercised over the theatrical

representations of criminal doings. Mr Ell's amendment was negatived by 33 to 23.

The Hon. Mr McGowan said he was not going to teach prisoners trades to compete with free labourers. Wherever possible, the Department ' was giving better light in gaols. The prisoners sent to the country for tree-planting were first offenders or prisoners undergoing sentences for minor offences.

Mr Wilford said he had heard members raise their voices in protest against what were described as anomalies, . bxfi never had he heard a Minister admit that members were right. It was heart* rending to get up and urge reform, and be met with a Minister's reply to the effect that there was nothing in thd argument.

The vote, "Prisons Department, £44,116," was passed without alteration.

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