BURNING OF St. ANDREW'S CHURCH.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXX, Issue 4119, 24 August 1882, Page 2

BURNING OF St. ANDREW'S CHURCH.

INQUEST ON THE FIRE.

Dr. Gibbes, Coroner, held an inquest this morning, at the Court House, into the circumstances attending the fire at St. Andrew's Church on the 19th instant. The following jury was empanelled : — William Humphries (foreman), Henry Weston, D. Callaerhan, W. Cottier, D. Berry, W. Buttle, W. Walker, A. Drew, J. C. Davies, D. Gilmour, Morton, J. M. Vivian, and Foote. Mr. Standish appeared on behalf of the Victoria Company (without prejudice), Mr. Samuel on behalf of the Trustees of the Church, and Mr. Govett on behalf of Mr. Breach. Horace Barnes, deposed : I reside in Gill -street, in the house on the section at the rear of the late Presbyterian Church. Lust Friday night I retired to bed between 10 and 11 p.m. I woke some time after I had been asleep, and went outside. I returned to my room again shortly afterwards, and I observed a glitter in the direction of St. Andrew's Church. I got into bed again. Afterwards I noticed a glare in my room. I looked out, and saw that the church was on fire. It was from five minutes to a quarter of an hour after the time I saw the glitter until I saw the church on fire. On the first occasion I did not look out to see what it was. I noticed j j that the back of the church was on fire. I could not see the roof of the church as it was all in flames. I went to the fire and saw several people there. I saw Constable Roche and other persons their. I went into Mr. Pitt's house and helped to take ! out the things. I did not see anyone about when I went out the first time. About a fortnight ago the Rev. Mr. Breach asked me if he could go through our section into the church, and I told him to go and ask my mother. Ido not know whether he asked permission from my mother. This conversation took place between 5 and 6 p.m. one night in the church ground. There is a small gate in the fence between the church and our section. I have never seen anyone go through our section to the church but Mr. Breach. I was not dressed when I went out at first. By Mr. Samuel : When I spoke to Mr. Breach he was standing near the vestry. It was about a fortnight ago, between 5 and G p.m. Going through our section to the church is very little, if any, shorter than going round by Devon-street. It is a more private way than going round by Devon-street. There are no gas lamps lighted near our house. If a person got through our section he could climb on to the bank, and get at once on to the sandhills, where no one could see him. From the sindhills there is an unfrequented road to Mr. Breach's house. If anyone wished to get unobserved from Mr. Breach's house to the church at night, the best track to fo'low would be over the sandhills and through our section. At this stage the jury adjourned to view the scene of the fire. On the jury re-assembling, Mr. Govett took exception to some of the jurymen, on the ground that they had expressed their opinions strongly, and were interested persons. Mr. Samuel submitted that the objection should be taken before the jury was sworn. The Coroner said this was only a formal inquiry, and no person was on his trial. He could not allow the objection, for it should have been made before the jury was sworn. Horace Barnes (continued) : We do not keep a dog on the premises. Elizabeth Jane Breach, deposed : I am the wife of the Rev. Mr. Breach. On Friday last I was at home all day. Mr. Breach was out in the morning and home in the afternoon. In the evening we had tea at five, and Mr. Breach said he was going to put an advertisement in the News and meet the train. I told him the train came in at 7.20. He returned home just as the train arrived. He sat about an hour at the fire, and then he went to bed. He went to bed at 8 o'clock, and I went to bed at 9 o'clock. He said he had a bad headache. We occupied the same room that night. Mr Breach was not out of the house all that night. I was not very well myself ; I had a bad headache. I never heard the fire bell, nor anything of the fire. I first heard of the fire at 11.45 on Saturday morning, when my own little boy came and told me. Besides my son there were two others — a girl named Ettie Swanston, aged 16 years, and Emily Soffe, aged 13. There were five persons in the house that night. Mr. Breach did not leave the house next day. Wnen Mr. Breach was told the church was burned he did not go and see it. He had a bad headache. I did not go by train anywhere on Friday. I never went to the Eliot-street station with Mr. ! Breach on Friday or Saturday, or any day near that time. The bedroom we slept in faces the sea. By Mr. Standish : Mr. Breach went to meet the train because he thought Mr. Bruce was coming by the train ; when he returned he said he had been too late to put an advertisement in the paper. He found that another gentleman, whom he did not know, was announced to preach at the church. By Mr. Samuel : There was a lady at our house on Friday, and she went by the train in the morning. There was no other person in the house that day. When I went to bed I took no light with me. I went to sleep soon after I went to bed. I heard no noise during the night, and I woke up at 6 o'clock in the morning. Mr. Breach was in bed when I went into the room. In the morning at 6 o'clock when I woke he was in bed asleep. Mr. Breach had his boots on until he went to bed. I got up first in the morning. I had a beautiful night's sleep, and felt better in the morning. I got up and dressed myself at 6 o'clock, and Mr. Breach got up at 7 o'clock. I do not remember seeing Mr. Breach's boots when I got up. We do not keep a dog. By Mr. Govett: I am a day and night nurse, and am accustomed to get up at the least noise. If I had heard any noise in the house that night, I should have woke. I did not shut my bedroom door. My bedroom door is close to the front door. I shut all the doors myself before I went to bed, and locked them. When I got up in the morning both doors were locked. The front door opens and shuts easily. By the foreman : No one called at the house on Saturday morning up till noon. 1 We heard the firebell on the night of the fire at the Oddfellows' Hall. I was sleeping upstairs. Mr. Breach went to see the Oddfellows' Hall fire. The girl Ethel Swanston is still in the house. I have not told Mr. Cutfiold that I hoard the fire bell. I am certain I did not. Mary Barnes deposed : I reside in the house on the section at the rear of the late Presbyterian church. I know Rev. Mr. Breach. I have seen him twice pass through

our section to go to the church. He went on Saturday week, and I also saw him a few days before that, He did not ask my permission to go through at any time. When he went through our section he opened the gate and went into the chu;ch grounds. On the night of the fire I went to bed about 12 p.m. I did not hear anyone passing the house. By Mr. Samuel: On Saturday, the 12th. Mr. Breach came in from Gill-street, and went to the church, and came back again through our section. I have never seen anyone pass through the gate to the church except Mr. Breach. Teresa Crozier, deposed: I am the wife of John Crozier. My husband is one of the Committee of the Presbyterian Church, and he was in possession of one of the keys of the church. On the Friday morning before the fire, Mr. Breach came to my house and asked me for the key of the church. I told him I did not know where it was. By Mr. Standish: Mr. Breach said he had s:iven up the church on false representations, and he now wanted the key. By Mr. Samuel: I do not remember Mr. Breach saying anything about preaching at the church next Sunday. I believe the key is still in our house. We live near the barracks. I heard the firebell. By Mr. Govett: My husband was not in the habit of lending the key to anyone. The inquest was then adjourned until 2 p.m.

On the inquest resuming at 2 p.m., Moses Somes Breach, deposed : 1 am the minister of the Presbyterian Church, and have been so for over ten years. I effected an insurance on the Church building on the 24th of April last, for £400, in the Victoria office. The £400 included the building, harmonium and seats. This insurance was effected on my own account, and without any authority from anyone else. It was for my own benefit. There has been a quarrel between the congregation and outsiders who professed to be Presbyterians. The quarrel has been principally with regard to myself. There was n memorial for my removal from the Church. It was in the beginning of June. The quarrel had taken a threatening shape for the last two years. Some little time ago I signed a paper giving up the Church. It was on the Saturday previous to Dr. McLeod pieaching the charge vacant. It was on the 12th of the present month. The paper was with a view to preach the charge vacant. I have not preached in the Church since. Dr. McLeod came to me privately f on the beach, with a view of getting the matter settled quietly. He (Dr. McLeod) said there was no dependence to be placed on those men who formed the Working Committee of the Church, and he assured me that if I resisted him preaching the charge vacant on the coming Sunday that both minister and congregation would be no longer a Presbyterian congregation or minister,- and that I should forfeit all the privileges of the church, not being at liberty to marry or sign a certificate. I finally declined to do so. After parting with the understanding that I declined to sign the paper, there was a committee meeting at my house, at which Dr. McLeod was present. The whole matter was gone into as to the advisability of my letting him preach the church vacant, but the threat of excommunication was repeated to myself and the committee if we resisted, and a number of promises made if we- submitted. Finally, it was decided that Dr. McLeod should retire and the committee discuss the matter between themselves, and communicate the result in the morning. The next day the document which I now produce was handed to me by Mr. Brown :—": — " I hereby promise the Rev. M. S. Breach, Presbyterian Minister, that he shall be granted the ordinary Presbyterial certificate by the Presbytery of Auckland on the following condition : that he retire quietly now from the pastorate and church of the congregation at New Plymouth; that he does not again preach in the church of that place ; and that he be not eligible again of becoming the minister of the aforesaid charge; and that the congregation do not again give him a call to become their "minister. (Signed) J. McLeod, the Presbytery of Auckland's Commissioner to the New Plymouth congregation." I agreed to that, and signed a copy of it. On the following day Dr. McLeod did preach the charge vacant, and I ceased to be minister until the following week, when I discovered that ray signature had been obtained by means of dishonest statements. I sent a telegram to Dr. McLeod' which was to the effect that I having signed the document under false representations I declared it null and void. I went to the News office for the purpose of inserting a notice that I would preach in the church. I went to Mr. Crozier, and tried to get the key for that purpose. I was not aware that a new lock had been put on the doar of the church. On Saturday morning between the hours of 10 and 12 I heard that the church was burnt down. My little boy told me. On Friday last I was at the News office at G o'clock, and then I walked up Devonstreet to Mr. Cutfield's, and returned home as the train was coining in. I never left the house from that time until the morning, when I went out to milk the cow. Some of the members of the Committee have possession of the deeds of the church. I have not got them. I never attempted to sell the church property. I have not made any claim on the Insurance Company for the amount of the insurance. I have been been waiting for the result of the inquest. I heard nothing of the lirebell. By Mr. Standish : The interest I considered I had to insure in the building was the amount of stipend in arrears to the amount of £GOO. I considered that my stipend was a lien on the building. The Committee of Management stipulated to give me £200 a year and a free home. Latterly I have been getting about £50 a year stipend. There is only one bed in the room that I slept in. My wife slept in the same bed with me. lam quite sure. •By Mr. Samuel : The church was held by trustees, whose namea were in the deed. I am not a trustee, and my name is not in the deed. I now claim to be entitled to the £400, and put it in my pocket. After signing the agreement on Saturday, the 12th instant, I took some hymn books to the vestry on the same evening. I have (lever been in the church grounds since. During the week Mr. McLauchlan telegraphed to me about church matters. I saw Mr. McLauchlan on Thursday, and we talked over the matter affecting a paper I had signed. At a committee meeting it was arranged that I should preach in the church again. When it was arranged Mr. Brown resigned, also Mr. Hills. There is no fixed term of office. There is no rule as to how long tho Committee retain office. ; i [Left sitting].