New Plymouth, September 24, 1867.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XVI, Issue 791, 28 September 1867, Page 3

New Plymouth, September 24, 1867.

OUR GUARANTEED LAND REVENUE. We publish below that portion of Major Atkinson's speech on the financial policy of the Government which relates especially to Taranaki. It will be seen that our member is prepared to do his utmost to obtain the continuance of oui* land revenue, or the payment of the £20,000, the interest on which it is supposed to represent, but that he is prepared to surrender our claim to tlie_ £16,000 balance, on which the Province would have to pay the interest. . We cannot at all see the necessity for this compromise ; if we have no right to the money, we do not want it ; but if it is ours in virtue of a compact, every effort should be made to obtain our full right, and it should be pointed out to the Middle Island members — the other parties to that contract — that if the agreement is invalid for us, it is equally/ invalid for them. Of the Colonial Treasurer's opinion on the subject, the following is a tolerably clear expression :—": — " I reiterate, in the strongest " possible manner, that whilst I hold that "a greater financial folly was never "committed than that of 1856, yet that novi "it is made, no more loyal supporter will he "found titan myself." We have taken the liberty of italicising the honorable gentleman's words for him, as we have no doubt he would desire the attention of Taranaki to be especially called to them. It is really almost beyond credence that the same man, calling 1 himself a politician, should have had the hardihood to conclude his speech with the words which we print below. His parody on Major Atkinson's speech is as puerile as it is false. It is altogether beside the point to introduce the question of provincialism, Unless the Treasurer is anxious to force Taranaki to return provincialist members on the next occasion, in order that she may obtain a scant modicum of justice. The Government have shown themselves unable to devise any better system of local Government than the provincial, and yet they would endeavour to stifle even that poor system in Taranaki, and leave us, wo" conclude, absolutely ungoverned. If we rightly apprehend the basis t»f Major 1 Atkinson's "argument, it is this — that without prejudice to his opinion about the relative advantages of provincialism and local self-government — he feels bound to prevent our being deprived of one before the other is planned, and he asks therefore for just as much of our rights as will enable us to carry on the existing system. It is to be regretted that he did not go farther, and demand, as he had a right to do, that while provincial institutions still lived, and until the Government could find some better system, the former should receive their full rights, and that therefore Taranaki should be paid to the last penny the sum which by the arrangement of 1856 was her just due. Major Atkinson said he would now see how the scheme would do for Taranaki. At any rate it was clear that the votes of Taranaki had not been bought. The proposition of the Government was to give to that Province half of its consolidated revenue, amounting to £7,500, and to charge it on the estimates with £5,000. To this must? be added the interest, about £1,000, on the provincial debt of £12,000 ; and also the interest, £900, which the Government propose to charge upon the £16,000 land purchase fund— total in round numbers, £7,000, so that there would be left only/£SOO to meet Provincial charges j bnt even for this £500 the Province had to pay £400 on account of surplus revenue. Could anything be more absurd ?—£loo? — £100 to meet all Provincial charges ! He was therefore bound to reil the House that Taranaki could not carry on its administration under tho proposed scheme. He was bound to tell the House this. He would endeavour to show that the scheme, so far as Taranaki was concerned, was unfair, and mnst be modified, or the Province would have to be taken over by the General Government. But he did not think they could manage it much cheaper than it was now being done. The Superintendent received £300 a year ; the police establishment consisted of two policemen aud a sergeant ; and the other departments were in proportion. He, for one should have no objection to seeing the Province taken over by the General Government, if such was the wish of the House. He could not, of course, in a matter of such importance, speak I for his constituents, bnt he thought that probably they also would be willing to be taken over. It was, however, clear that the difficulty should be faoe'd, and that the people of Taranaki and the House should be told whatthe Government meant to do. He now came to the question of the land fund and the confiscated/land. It was known that under the arrangement by which the local land fund was secured to the Middle Island, Taranaki was to receive £2,200 a year nntil £30,000 had been spent on the purchase of native lands within the Province, £20,000 of which was

to bo paid over without interest. Tlio proposition of the Colonial Treasurer was that this sum, less £4,000 already expended, should bo written off; and that tho confiscated lands, with the exception of the townshipß of Patea and Waitara, should be handed over to tho Province ; that is to say, tho confiscated land is to be given to Taranaki, but she is to pay the small sum of £32,000 for it. 110 did not think much of such a girt. He did not think the land at present was worth the money asked for it. He could not agree to this payment of 32,000 for tho confiscated land ; but he could agree to take the £20,000 which was due without interest out in land, and to lot the Colony, which had already spent it, have the balance upon which interest was payable. This, he thought, would be a fair arrangement, and would not be rendering the Province liable for iuterest which it could not pay, and which it should not be compelled to undertake. Under tho arrangement of 1856 they were entitled to a guaranteed land/fund of £2,200 until £20,000 was expended upon tho purchase of land in the Province. He maintained, therefore, that they had a right to tho £2,200 a year under that arrangement, which so mauy speakers had rightly declared iuviolable, until they had quieb possession of the £20,000 worth of land which the Colony proposed to sell them, and that that sum should be at once put on the estimates. With regard to tbo allocated debt, several references had been made to the unjust steward, but if the Colonial Treasurer had come to him and said, " Take thy bill and write down quickly £36,000," instead of doing so he should have said, "No, I owe nothiug." But still he was quite willing to pay, when the circumstances of the Province would allow it, whatever was fair. Ho would, however, call attention to tho fact that a largo portion of this debt, £18,000, was thrust on Taranaki against its will, for a road along the beach for three miles on one side of the town and three miles on the other, notwithstanding tho repeated protests of the Provincial Council against" the expenditure. Tho Government agent said the Province would not have to pay for it ; but the Provincial Council thought the Province would be charged with the amount, and/ therefore did its best to stop the expenditure. In allocating this debt to tho Province, it should be considered how far it had been benefited by the road. It was true that a Commission had sat to inquire into these things, but they were precluded, by their instructions, from enquiry into the value of the work to tho Province. He for one would never object to paying a fair portion of the debt, and did riot care about the repeal of the Allocation Act, but Bhould not certaiuly object to the repeal if the house wished it. The Province, however, could not pay anything In its present condition. He thought, therefore, that the Allocation Act should bo suspended for iive years. . Mr. Fitzhkubert. — Sir, I have one remark to make with reference to an observation which gave me, when I heard it, the gr'eaEest possible regret. The honorable gentleman, the member for New Plymouth, complained that we were doing too much for the Provinces j but it is most remarkable that wo were not, in his opinion, doing enough for Taranaki. Now I say that is the worst typo of provincialism. TbatTionorable gentleman knows my respect for him, but it was a most unfortunate remark for him to make. Tho complaint amounted to this, "Ton are doing too much for the Provinces, but not enough for Taranaki." That, I repeat, is the most repulsive form of pfovinoialism, especially when doming from the lips of a centralist, and I extremely regret it. I believe the honorable member did not think what he was saying when he let fall that observation. I suy the Government are desirous of doing the utmost for Taranaki, and if the House can show a wnj' to do more, tho Government will not be an obstacle.

THE following debate took place in Committee of the itonse on September 13t.1i, on the second clause of the Surplus Revenue Adjustment Bill, under which it was proposed to charge the sum of £376 16s. 3d. against this Province. It will be seen that on Mr. A. S. Atkinson's motion this charge was struck out • — ■ Mr. Curtls said, that with regard to tho distribution of the debts of eight of the Provinces, 1 he had nothing to say ; but he must object to the manner in which It was proposed to doal with that of Marlborough. Ho considered that in this distribution the question of the Customs receipts should riot be taken into account in any case, because it must bo known that other Provinces stood in the same relation to ono another that Nelson and Wellington did to Marlborongh. >3e thought, moreover, that tho figures in this arrangement were of a most rough character. He would move as ah amendmeut to tho clause that the following words be added to it: "That the sumo" £12,536 165., due from thj Province of Morlborough, shall be a charge upon the consolidated revenues of the Colony." Mr. Stafford said the honorable member for Nelson had properly stated thab no precise figures had been given on which the adjustment was made in regard to the remission to Marlborough and the payment by Nelson and Wellington. That was to a Certain extent correct} there was no precise statement of figures. He would warn tho honorable member that the less he stirred in the question the better it would be for Nelson. Nelsdn was enormously advantaged by tho proposal as between that Province and Marlborough and figures could be given in proof of that statement. Ho was not prepared to say that he had sufficient data to enablo him to form an opinion as between Canterbury and Nelson } bub as between Marlborough and Nelson, tho less the honorable member disturbed the proposal tho better for Nelson —that is to say, disturb it in the way of arriving at precise figures.' Tho proposal was a step in the right direction, ottd more might follow from it yet. He was glad the honorable gentlemau had seen his way to accept the financial scheme ' as a whole. The Government were making very largo concessions because the Provinces were in that position that the strict letter of the lnw could not be enforced towards them, as virtually they could not pay. The largest defaulter —he did not use the word in a criminal sense — was the Province of Otago. The opinions just expressed by the honourable member for Gladstone iti favour of the proposals, had all the mote weight as that honorable member had at first believed that the scheme was not based on sound principles 5 but after reflection, he now confessed that he fblt compelled to support the proposal of the Government, as he could perceive none more applicable to the case, or that would more fairly meet the circumstances as between the Provinces and the Colony. Mr. VocEr, could not realize the condition into which the Honse was falling, when an honorable member was warned that tho less he stirred the better for his Province and the worse for another. It appeared to him tho Government were dealing with money without any principle whatever. The House was becoming a stain on the Colony. Ho wanted to know whetLer the £183,000 was brought into account, and if so, whether it was against the revenue or against loan. He thought there ought to be an investigation and a rectification. There ought to be a Commission which would lake the evidence the Provinces could give and decide fairly between them. Mr. Craceoft Wilson, C.8., said, as long as the Colony was at present constituted, solne of the money would slip through and bo given to the Provinces, and it was probable that in threo yeara there would bo brought down another whitewashing Bill. Mr. FrrzHEKBEttT considered that the honorable member for the Gold Fields was putting himself in a most extraordinary position ; he had already complained about sums being charged twice against the Provinces, and yet ho was now prepared to support what he himself designated a proposition to charge them a third time. It was an absurdity to talk about paying once, twice, or thrice, and simply showed that the honorable gentleman did not understand the subject he was talking about. He hoped the honorable member for Nelson would withdraw his amendment or mitigate his opposition . There was no pretension to absolute precision insisted upon, nor was the scheme intended as a ; step in any direction that could make it bo token

us a precedent. It was intondod solely for the occasion, and it should not bo interpreted as a wedge inserted to secure any ulterior object. It was not intended to bo a precedent, but was simply for the occasion. It was strictly within the limits of justice, but must not bo considered as inserting the thin edge of tho wedge for mnkiug hereafter an alteration in apportioning tho Customs revenue. If the amendment was affirmed he would move another amendment — That it should be placed upon tho provincial side of the consolidated fund. Ho trusted, however, that the honorable member would withdraw it. Mr. Halt, said he had some time since, t-akeri tho trouble to obtain a return showing the proportion of goods consumed iv Canterbury as compared with the duty paid within tho limits of the Province* He found that the duty upon goods entered at Hokitika, which was paid in Otngo and Nelson, dv.-ing six months alone, was shown by a return he had before him, was £21,202, and on that sumCanterbu -y lost its three-eighths share. There was no doubt it was deirable that some equitable adjustment should be made, although he confessed that it was a very difficult matter to arrange. If such an adjustment were made, it would be found thiit a considerable amount was due to Canterbury from Otago and Nelson, so that he wondered that the honorable member for Nelson did not jump at the present proposal to finally close this account. He did not wonder at tho arrangement being cJistastefulto tho honorable member for the Gold Fields, as he wns asked, in his capacity of Provincial Treasurer of Otago, to refund a sum of £25,000 which had been over-paid to that Province. Mr. A. 13. A-tkikson entirely agreed with the principle laid down by the Government in the case of Marlborough, but' wished to extend it a little further. There tvere two reasons why Marlborough should be excused from her debt — first, because she could not'pay, which in itself was almost sufficient ; and secondly, because a largo part of the duties on goods' consumed in that Province had been paid elsewhere. Those arguments would apply equally to Taranaki. In the year 1804 it had been estimated by the Collector of Customs that the imports to that Province for six months were in the following proportion : — From England, 700 tons ; from other colonies, 4,500 tons ; and coastwise, 7,000 tons. He hoped the Committee would take that into consideration, that the goods coastwise were 7,000 tons, while those imported from beyond the Colony amounted only to 5,200 tons. Part of those goods were 110 doubt imported in bond, but the measurement goods were almost wholly imported duty paid, because in a small town the storekeepers often could not affoH to import entire packages. The fact that so large a portion was imported coastwise would justify the Government iD charging the sum, not ngaimt the Provihee, hut against others where the duty was actually received. If tho Government wished to assume the administration of affairs in Taranaki, the slop they were taking was an excellent one, and well calculated to effect the object in view. Tho Provincial share of the revenue was to be £7,500 in all, out of which all Government services locally charged had to bo paid, ami there was therefore a very small balance left. It was also to bo considered whether it was wise to cripple the Province if it was determined it should have the management of the confiscated lands. He would move that the 14th and loth linps be struck out of the clause, so that Tarannki might bo freed from what he considered -n unfair charge. Mr. Reid suggested that this final settlement should not be made intor-provincially, but by the whole Colony. He would move, if in order, " That in order to a final and satisfactory settlement of the accounts "between the Provinces, it is expedient that the amount 'of £-13,967 2s. 10d., required for the purpose of adjusting tho overpayments of surplus revenue, be added to the proposed new loan." There- was a proposal for t\ now loan of £2C>0,000, but it might with, advantage be raised to ;C-">00,000, go as to cover this sum. Some of the Provinces were nob in a position to pay these sums. Mr. Stafford icferrcd to the statement of the honorable member for Danedin, that these accounts wero not correct, because certain sums had been charged on current revenue, and not on loan. By the Appropriation Act 18G5, it was provided that the costs for the removal of the eeat of Government should be charged on current revenue, so that now the officers of the Treasurer could have made any mistake in the matter ho could not conceive, as they were bound to draw up accounts in accordance with the law. If the honorable member was not aware ol' the clause in tho Appropriation Acb o ISCS, which placed tho cost of tho removal of the seat of' Government- on the ordinary revenue, it was his own fault in refusing to stay in Wellington long enough to have that Act printed and circulated before it was passed. He had been much opposed to the removal of the seat of Government j but when it was determined on, and a resolution proposed that the necessary money should be raised by Exchequer Bills or otherwise, he moved as an amendment that it should be charged on current revenue. He could not therefore have acted unexpectedly in putting a provision to that effect in Appropriation Act of 18G5. Major Atkinson said the difficulty that Taranaki would be placed in, if tho proposed scheme were carried out, would be very great. Tho affairs of the Provlnce" ( bould not possibly be carried on, arid he felt it to be his duty to protest against the injustice that was sought to be done to Taranaki. He would ask whether there was no other way of settling the matter than charging the Provinces with that which it was impossible under the present arrangements, they could pay. He could not but think that Taranaki was placed in rather an unfair position. Mr. Fitzherbert quite recognized the spirit in which the honorable gentleman had appealed to the Government iv respect to the position of Taranaki, but he could assui'o the Committee that ! it was not a capricious choice on the part of the Government. The Government exceedingly regretted that the £400 should be a matter of ap* peal on the part of the Province of Taranaki, but how could the Government have omitted it in their proposal. If the Province of Taranaki should not think proper to nccepb that which was offered as a boon — the transfer of the confiscated land — then the Government would have no ground for omitting the provision of £2,200, the allowance made in lieu of land fund since 1858. The question of £400 would not then be absolutely one of such urg«mt consideration to Taranaki. Some arrangement might perhaps be made by which Auckland should pay the £37G 16s. 3d. to Taranaki, bnt the Government could not propose anything of that eort, although they would not object if Such a proposal emanated from an Auckland member. Mx. Williamson observed that Taranaki had obtained her supplies from Auckland before the war times, aud the trade carried on between Taranaki and the Manukau was something considerable. But sinco that time the principal purchases were made at Wellington and Nelson, and not at Auckland. A good deal of the compassion and the consideration which was entertained to wardß Taranaki, on the part of the Auckland members, arose from the fact that Auckland and Taranaki were next door-neighbours, and that a good deal of Taranaki supplies wero obtained at Auckland in tho early days ; but if Taranaki had any claims now on any other Province, they rested on tho Cook Strait Provinces and not on Auckland. Mr. J. O'Neill was obliged to differ with the opinion of the laat speaker, as he believed Tarauaki had large claims upon the Province of Auckland. As members representing ont) of the oldest Provinces they shonld not forget old associations at a time when Taranaki was a part of New Ulster. Ho must appreciate the desire of tho Government in adhering to the figures which had no doubt been arrived at by them after much careful deliberation and mental toil. ■ He considered that the small sum might be relieved from Taranaki, and Auckland ought to tako it upon herself. The trade between Taranaki and Manukau " was worth more than that small sum to Auckland, and by dealing out justice to others the Auckland ruombera were more likely to get it for themselves. Mr. Yogel hoped the Bill wonll be delayed some way or other, as it was most discreditable to the Housa. Hi bad no doubt that if representations were miidc at home they would prevent the Bill receiving the lloyal assent. The Bill prejudiced

more than ono Province, aivl especially Otngo, and ho trusted honorable members would not bo so lost to a Benso of shaino as to pnss a mcasnro which was recognised ns an organized attempt at a scramble. Mr. Fit/Herbert said the Government was quite prepared to take any consequences of representations at home. Ho thought it exceedingly creditable to the honorable member for tho Northern Division to make the suggestion he had. Governmont certainly did not want any euch scramble, but tho honorablo momber for tho Gold Fields, who deprecated with, tho most virtuous indignation, any attempt at scramble, had persistently dove all he could to provoke that scramble by every Province. If the Government ascertained that Auckland was willing to accept the suggestion, the Government Would not object ; all that would bo required would bo to deduct tho £376 from the £25,000 to be received by Auckland. Then, if the member for Omata would withdraw his amendment the matter would be adjusted, and the scramble put A Stop tOi Mr. A. S. Atkinson had made the demand because he deemed it a just one, and not as an appeal ad misericordiam. He thanked Auckland members for their liberal offer, but declined absolutely to make an appeal to the charity of Auckland or any other Province. Taranaki was as fairly entitled to what it asked as Marl borough was to what had been remitted to it j and on the same grounds. Tho Government could not apparently afford to be just, but it had no objection to Auckland being generous. He saw no reason for withdrawing his amendment. Sir David Monbo thought the whole arrangement was based on an ad misericordiam appeal. If the Treasurer could show him that Taranaki had any assets (fom which payment could be secured, ho would vote with the Government, but if the Province was utterly unable to pay, why not apply the principle of the whole arrangement fully, and, by remitting what Tarauaki as well as other Provinces was unablo to pay, do it completely ? Mr. R. Graham thought the sum in question was so small that the matter should be settled at once, and that that was the proper time and place to do it. He would propose that thosum of £376 165.3d. charged to Taranaki, should be deducted from the £25,000 receivable by Auckland. Mr. Fitzhermert said that the Government was prepared to support the amendment of the honorable member for Omata, on the understanding that it would be proposed by some member of the Province of Auckland that the sum should be deducted from the account to be paid to the Province of Auckland. It* it should so happen that the diminution should not be carried, then it would be his duty to re-commit the Bill for the purpose of reconsidering the amendment. Mr. Atkinson's amendment was agreed to.