Provincial Council.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XII, Issue 609, 2 April 1864, Page 2

Provincial Council.

The Council met on Monday at 630 p.m. A message (No. 31) forwarding copy of letter from the New Zealand Christian Colonisation Society, enquiring whether any blocks of land in Taranaki could be set apart for their special settlements (as at Albertland, Kaipara,). The emigrants to be introduced are of two classes — "the strictly moral," and " the avowedly Christian," but whether each class will require a special settlement to itself does not appear. The Provincial Secretary informed the Council that Messrs. Gilbert, Kerr, and Co., had ordered a life boat for the Province) to cost .£2OO. A motion of Mr. Kelly's, that the votes and proceedings of the Council should be printed, was carried after some discussion. The Council resolved itself into committee to continue the adjourned debate on message No. 20 (Iron Sand). The Provincial Secretary said the late Government had been blamed for forwarding the leases to Capt. Morshead without having endorsed upon them the mortgage of Dr. Samuel ; but, as he showed by documentary evidence, the Government had promised Capt. Morshead while still here to send the two remaining leases after him. If Dr. Samuel had informed the Government of the existence of the mortgage, it would of course have been endorsed upon them, but Dr. Samuel did no such thing \ the Government knew nothing of it, except from hearsay, till September, 1860, and therefore was not to blame. An interval of some minutes' desultory conversation elapsed, when Mr. Weston moved — " That in the opinion of this committee the leases of the Iron Sand beach granted to Capt. Morshead and all interests accruing therefrom are forfeited ; and

that the Superintendent be requested to enforce the forfeiture." Mr. Tatton moved as an amendment — " That Dr. Samuel be summoned before the committee and examined". He had no penchant for Dr. Samuel — far from it ; he did.not think it would be any great harm to the Province if he were ou'. of it ; but let him be got rid of legitimately. His anxiety was that this Province should not be accused of a breach of faith. The amendment was not supported. Captain Atkinson moved the following addition to Mr. Weston's resolution : — And farther that the conduct of both Capt. Morshead and Dr. Samuel bns been sucli in respect to the leases of Ironsand granted to the said Capt Morsbead that this Conncil while desirous not only to be fair but liberal in the mntter, is of opinion that neither of these gentlemen is entitled to any consideration at the hands of either the General or Provincial Government. He (Capt. Atkinson) was quite satisfied that neither Capt. Morshead nor Dr. Samuel was entitled to the least consideration at the hands of the Government. He had been led to this conclusion chiefly through Mr. Watt's statement to the Conncil. He was convinced that no Mortgage had ever been ex - ecuted by Capt. Morshead in favour of Dr. Samuel. Dr. Samuel himself two years ago, told a select committee of this Council that he had no Mortgage, but only an agreement to produce one. The clerk to Dr. Samuel, then solicitor, who would have engrossed such a deed had there been ojo, stated his belief that no such deed was ever executed, if drawn, and that he engrossed all the rest of tho papers. The Mortgage was said to have been executed on the 7th April, 1859, when Capt. Morshead had one of the leases in his possession. Why was no endorsement put upon it? He believes that Dr- Samuel did not wishhis lien on the leases to be known in England until after the formation of a good and responsible Company. If Dr Samuel held a mortgage, why was it not registered on the 20th April, 1859, with the far less important documents then registered ? He regretted that Mr Watt should have made statements against the government for having sent home the leases to Capt. Morsliead ; the Government had agreed to do so in writing before Capt. Morshead left New Plymouth, on the 6th April 1859. Dr Samuel never informed the Government that he was Capt. Morshead's attorney until some time after the leases were sent home. Why did not Dr Samuel immediately upon C .pt. Morshead leaving, write officially to the Government and inform them that he was the attorney ? Certainly not through ignorance. Looking* at all these circumstances he could never agree to any relief being granted to either Capt. Morshead or Dr Samuel, and he thought it better that tho Council should also express its opinion. The addition was agreed to, and the resolution as amended then passed, was reported to the Council and read a first time. Mr. Tatton only voting against it.

Wednesday, March 30. The Provincial Secretary moved that the resolution of Committee upon the Iron-sand leases be read a second time. Mr. Upjohn opposed the motion. It had been stated that Dr. Samuel had not put his claim upon record, but he was in a position to state that Dr. Samuel had had 29 interviews with the Provincial Government in the year 1859, in some of which no doubt lie had mentioned his position. Dr. Samuel bad also been accused of not guarding the people of England against deception in the matter of the iron-sand company, but he could state that Dr. Samuel had informed the English public that Capt. Morshead did not go home to Englaud with clean hands. Dr. Samuel was quite aware that he had no legal claim upon the Provincial Government, but he relied upon its honor. At the same time he had shown what power he had by laying an embargo upon the sand sent from here to England. '[A member—No ; that was Captain Morshead.] After some remarks from Messrs. Bayly and Gledhill in support of the motion, Mr Tatton said he must protest at the eleventh hour against the course which had been taken. He approved of the first part of the resolution for determining the leases, but V not of the second. Very serious charges had been brought against Dr. Samuel of conspiring with Cuptain Morshead for certain' purposes, and so forth, and he thought it only fair that he should have been heard. Captain Atkinson must say a few words. He was surprised at two hon. members who had been four years in the Council behaving in such a childlike way. His friend on the right (Mr. Tatton) knew, or at least should have known r that it was in his power to move for a select committee for further enquiry if he was not yet satisfied, but instead of that he had merely protested. As to examining Dr. Samuel again, he did not see that any good could come of that. Dr. Samuels' statements were continually varying. As an instance, he had told him (Captain Atkinson) that he had had no dealings with Captain Morshead, until the latter had obtained the leases, but according to the articles of agreement they were made for a valuable consideration. His hon. friend opposite (Mr. Upjohn) who appeared to be in the confidence of Dr. Samuel, had stated that he (Dr. Samuel) had had 29 interviews with the Government in the year 1859, in some of which he was supposed to have made his position known ; then he would ask for the evidence of it. He thought Dr. Samuel was sufficiently a man of business to have put his claim upon record if he had made any. The resolution was then read a second time. The following items of supply were read a second time: — Gaoler, i>lo4; Rations for prisoners, &c, J2500 ; Contingencies, ,£100 ; Inspector of Weights and Measures, .£25 ; Salary and Office of Registrar of Dogs, J650. A bill to constitute a schedule of reselected lands in the town, was read a second time and passed through committee. In committee of supply the following items were agreed to : — Charitable Aid, .£1,000 ; Public Works and Roads, .£1200 ; Sanitary Board, .£300 ; Education, .£600 ; Cemetery, .£100; General Contingencies, i-650; Eradication of thistles, — Crown Lands, ,£l5O, Native Lands, £50.

Thursday, March 31. The" Council met at 6.30.

Message 35 was received forwarding and recommending for favorable consideration a fresh application from Mr. Charles Watt, for leases of the Iron-sand, but recommending at the same time that a lesser extent of the beach should be included in the leases than was granted to Captain Morshead. The first two orders of the day were postponed ; the third upon message 24 (that the Superintendent be empowered to obtain the use of No. 2 Blockhouse for a temporary gaol) excited some discussion, and was ultimately postponed. In going into committee of supply, Mr. Gledhill asked whether there were any printed copies of the Iron-sand leases granted to Capt. Morshead. The Provincial Secretary said he believed one was printed but not the other two. The Provincial Secretary proposed that i-100 be granted to the Taranaki Institute ; it was distinct from the application for a building and indeed had not been applied for. Mr. Upjohn said some time since they had been asked for a grant of .£IOO, which was to put this Institute in a flourishing condition. They had granted it, but within a fortnight after he had seen an advertisement speaking of the concern as in a state of bankruptcy. He should like to know what state the Institute was in now. Mr. Burton was very happy to be able to state that the Institute was now in a prosperous and sound condition. Captain Atkinson would correct a misstatement made by the speaker opposite (Mr. Upjohn). The Institute had not applied last session for a grant of £100, but for a grant of ,£SO and a loan of £50. It was not applied for on the grounds that it was certain to make the Institute prosper, but as an experiment. The advertisement to which the hon. member referred, appeared about 12 months after the application not a fortnight. The object of the advertisement was to fiud out whether it was necessary to wind up the affair, that this might be done while it was still solvent and could repay the Province what it had borrowed. Mr. Tatton thought the living deserved as much attention as the dead. We paid .£IOO a year towards keeping up and beautifying the cemetery, and he did not think a similar sum would be too much for this Institute which he could answer from his own observation was of the greatest use. Motion passed. £100 for rifle prizes was agreed to after a discussion as to the way in which the revolvers purchased with the former vote had been disposed of. Some sums having been agreed to which had been previously proposed in addresses to the Superintendent. Mr. Weston said he would take the opportunity of remarking that the Council had already voted about £15,000 out of £10,500 estimated revenue. He should like to hear how the Government proposed to meet this additional expenditure. , The Provincial Secretary said that the hon. Member seemed to think that all the amounts voted would be spent, but this was not likely. There was one item, £2000 for immigration, £100 of which perhaps would not be spent, and so with other items. Captain Atkinson said there was no doubt the affairs of the Province were in a rather critical state. He found upon examination we were about £1000 on the wrong side of the account in ordinary revenue and expenditure of last year, besides about £3000 having been expended out of the £25,000 loan. Mr. Weston hoped the House would not go into Schedule B, until the Government stated how they proposed to meet the difficulty. The Provincial Secretary said he was not fully in possession of the mind of the Superintendent upon the subject, but he believed it would be by the repeal of the £25,000 loan ordinance, taking up the £50,000 instead. The Council not being satisfied with the only explanation it could get, resumed and adjourned till Friday (last night). Pbidat, April 1. [On the motion of the Provincial Secretary the Council concurred in His Honor's recommendation to grant leases of a part of the ironsand beach to Mr. Watt, od terms to be settled hereafter.]