PUBLIC MEETING.

Colonist, Volume XVI, Issue 1660, 15 August 1873, Page 3

PUBLIC MEETING.

THE NEW TARIFF AND THE RAILWAY. Ox Tueidaj night a very large public meeting wu held in the Provincial Hall upon the new duties, and the railway question was also discussed. On the motion of Mr. C.%. Watts, Mr. Aoton Adams occupied the chair and explained the object of the meeting. Mr. Levestam said before he proposed the resolution which had been intrusted to him, ha would explain that the object of the meeting was to get an expression of public opinion as to whether measurement or ad valorem du.iea were preferable. The memorial against the new tariff had been got up too hastily, and some of the public papers had rather misled the people than helped them. The Mail had had a dream, in which water-tight boots in festoons must hare played an important part, and it bad asserted that the people had been "gulled," when, in reality, it was the first time that a ministry had made any attempt to equalise the taxes. Merchants of this place had given figures which showed that various percentages of increase would occur on certain goods,' but it was difficult to arrive at any distinct data from these. A letter signed by "A. Z." in TheColonitt upon this subject showed that the contributor knew what he was writing about, and referring to the articles of tea, silks, pianos and other matters clearly showed the operation of the two duties. According to the old system the rich man paid, lay for. silk, a rate of one penny in the pound, but; the poor man for his wincey paid tenpenoe. By the new tariff these things would be better equalised, and very probabably som& articles, would have greater duties to bear than formerly. Why did not those who complain now about the increased duties upon things which they consume, when they were let off so lightly, coma forward and a»k to bs? made to pay.,their.,«har» more equally ? -It reminded him of the lines: — ' ; Them what's rich may ride in chaises,' . ' . Bat* them what's poor must walk like Mazes." (Laughter). The Examiner, had referred to the' " squeezing" process of the new duties, but it forgot to say that it was the common bottle that' had been squeezed diy, while the other had escaped too easily by the old duties, but now. there will be less.export - of cash because only luxuries will be taxed. Since a re-action had set'in that paper declared that it always liked ad valorem duties; and that they, did not want to reject but to revise them. The ohief objection raised aga'mt the new duties was that it would give room to corruption, and en-ourage false declarations of value by merchants, but that could be easily disposed of by making such practices criminal. offences. Mr. Levescam then read from the Financial Statement passages referring to the crude state of the proposition at that time, to its liability to amendment and the retu n, of any excess which might be shown between the adoption of the new rates and what they might subsequently become. He would move :— That this meeting strongly appioves of the principle of ad valorem duties in preference to the old duties of measurement. Mr. W. C. Hablky had great pleasure in seconding the resolution. He was an adrocate for levying duties upon value instead of bulk. At first he thought the provisions of the new tariff were oppressive, but he subsequently found that the increase would be chiefly on silks, laces, carriages and so forth, and that the proposed duties would be likely to prove ft perfect blessing by encouraging Colonial industries. It, nevertheless, required much revision and a great deal of classification. Mr. Luckib, M.H.R., who was re'eeived very cordially, said it gave him great pleasure to meet the electors after being longer absent from them than he at first looked for, and he felt a pardonable nride at the reception he had met with. He would first of all refer to his.telegram from. Wellington, containing his answer about the tariff, the first version of which he was glad to find had been dissipated, although he could not how such a misconstruction of his meaning could have been arrived at. Respecting the latest aspect of the tariff, he had received a telegram that evening stating that Mr.i Vogel had said in the House that day that a general ad valorem duty of 10 per cent, was intended. With respect to the principles of the new duties it was generally accorded that ad valorem rates were the fairest that could- be, and had been long oontended for. The telegram said that certain exceptions would have to be made on these rates; after the tariff was published he receivod a message from a confectioner in Nelson calling his attention to the injustice of its operation in the artiole ' of sugar, which was to pay twice as much for the raw material as for confectionery. This wa* co clearly an injustice that he pointed it out to the Commissioner of Customers requiring exception. The same thing might be said with respect to certain artioles of saddlery and grindery which would also require alteration, upon the principle of employing labor and encouraging Colonial manufactures. He knew he was trenching upon dangerous ground when he said that he thought one of the benefits to the Colony of the new duties would be the p/ovidiog of a modified protection to it. What was it that made England great but protection for ages through which she was, at length, enabled to boast of bring the workshop of the world ? (Cheers.) He knew that protection was an unpopular idea, but it was growing, and he believed would permeate through men's m'nds,and even ofthois commercial men who think it is likely to do damage to*their particular industries'. Take furniture, for instance, wliy could they not get it all made here and pay wages to people who are working amongst themselves ? It was impossible hero to go into a discussion «upon free trade and protection, but it would be found that the things most affected by the new duties. were articles of luxury. If we were to be the great people we desired to be, let us look for means of useful and honorable labor for our population, and endeavor to meet as many of our own wants.amongst ourselves as possible. He was not there to defend the Government, and had in the House pointed out various mistakes, especially of the Minister of Justice, who, it was very desirable, should avoid those attempts at legal reform which he was not well fitted to accomplish. Referring again to the tariff, and to the article of leather, he found that some one had exhumed a speech of Mr. Lightband's snowing great protectionist tendencies, which he seemed now to have quite forgotten, Everybody seemed afraid of the word " protection," but, depend upon it, to that complexion we must oome. He would not take up tht time of the meeting upon this question, because, as he had already said, the Government had that day promised such reductions as he thought would meet the caee, and which he would endeavor to assist to carry through. (Cheers.) Mr. Lightbrnd thought Mr. Luckie was endeavoring to throw dust into the eyes of the meeting, but if he went baok • little time, he would find that he himself had promised not to increase the taxes by any vote of his. He would tell Mr. Luckie that the, Province had paid £10,000 of duties during the last twelvemonths and would be obliged to pay as much more under the new tariff.. He was surprised that Mr. Vogel had so far committed himself. He looked upon Mr. Vogel as the cleverest and most successful Premier New Zealand ever hud. The revenue of 1870-71 were set down as-to be largely increased in 1873-74 yet with these inoreases he came forward with ad valorem duties which would increase taxation. He (Mr. Lightband) was not against ad valorem duties but they should be moet carefully imposed. Mr. Luckie spoke of protective duties as if they were a . new thing. Why, the old duti a were sufficient p otec tion themselves! In New York he saw the ill effect? of the system, for, whereas, a man here was well off at six shillings a day—(uproar)—there you wanted a great deal of money to enjoy equal aivantagos. Nowhere were people so well off as here. (A Voice : "at tie wages ") He questioned if Mr. Luckie was sincere when he declared himself a protectionist, and for his part he would oppose the present duties because they would inoreaao taxation and operate unfairly. Mr, Auqabde, as the writer of a letter iv th< Examiner, claimed to say a few words on this subject. (Hisses.) They might hiss as long as they liked, bu he had been the first, as it were, to draw blood in this matter and those who had spoken had borrowed his brains. (Great laughter). In the letter he had referred to he stated that duty imposed upon value was more equitable than upon apace, aad many Itnw tad k told him that \)hj w«rt w? *»*/,

they htd signed the petition. (Ore*! noise). Ha was an auctioneer, and ooald talk for • month. They had large railway works on hand, and would get their fair share of the taxes, bat what was wanted was, to keep the whip over their representatives and get as much as they could for their Province. Look at the products of the Province, tee what Inangahua promised, and determine to get your internal communication. Let them stand by themselves, and look to their own wants and interests. What would they do with their children, who would have to emigrate from the land which had educated them, unless something was done to give them a meant of self support here. Mr. Liohtband proposed as an amendment :— That, in the absence of a Chamber of Commerce, this meeting is of opinion that the subject of the proposed alteration in the tariff, from " measurement" to ad valorem duties, be submitted to a committee of the following: "■ gentlemen, nominated by this meeting, inch committee-to consist of Messrs. Selanders, Lerestam, Fisher, C. F. Watts, Wymond, Graham', Buckeridge, Dodson,' Webley, and the . mover, with a request that their decision be communicated: to the representatives of the Province,, and that they will . watch over the interests of consumers and importers during ' the passing of the Bill this session. * ' Seconded by Mr. Fibhbb. 7, -,!' . Mr. LircKiß'thought that to carry the amendment would be to stultify the meeting. Modifications had been made to procure a fair import duty according .. to value of the goods, and there were plenty of members who would see that anything likely to' be oppressive would not be pasted. The time would come when an Income and Property Tax would be imposed, but it would not be yet, for there were too many men in the House who were afraid of it. (Hear). An Income and Property Tax and a wool tax should . be imposed, but there were, at present, tod many . against to enable it to succeed, but when the time . arrived he hoped to be at the fore to aid it Mr. RoWKtt said protection meant the ability for. one class to rob another. If they wanted protection why not levy an import duty upon immigrants ? Why not tax daylight and kerosene, if any Government was sufficiently ignorant to go in for protection ? Mr. Luokie had said the working-man could take car* of himself, but they evidently could not do so, or by this time an Inoome Tax would have been levied. ' Mr. ScLAMDBBa wouldr-only say one word about the duties pressing on the* working-man. HeJ did not like the term, for they, were all working-men. He did not object to ad valorem duties but to . increased taxation, and hoped:that tbe necessary alterations to properly adjust the matter would be arrived at. : : ' ■ . : The Chahmiv then put Mr. Lightband's amend*; merit, which was lost. ; ... . Motion put and carried. " '' • Mr. J. Ghamam moved, and Mr. A. B. Jioksoir . seconded, a resolution disapproving of the hasty action with respect to the merchants' petition and their not having first called a public meeting. . After some explanation this resolution was with* drawn. Mr. Watts agreed with ad valorem duties provided they were levied upon articles we were able to produce ourselves. Protection was an exploded idea, but ad valorem duties should be fostered in a new country. He would move that:— The Chairman be requested to forward copies of the • previous resolutions to our Representatives at Wellington. Seconded by Mr. Levibn, and agreed to. Thb West Coast Railway. Mr. Fbll then called the attention of the meeting . to the more important consideration of the railway. Mr. Luckie had attended a meeting of the Inland Committee that day, and had expressed his willingnets to explain at this meeting his view of the position of the Government and the Nelson members in this - matter, he would therefore call upon Mr. Luokie to do so. Mr. LrcKiK considered the question just settled, a . subsidiary one to that of the railway, upon which subject there appeared to be considerable misunderstanding. Mr. Sharp and himself had had frequent interviews with Mr. Yogel and Mr. Biohardson, and after Mr. Caloutt's report had been received Mr. Vogel said that the line from Fox Hill to Brunnerton must be made, and that its being done was ■ mere question of time, although, no doubt, the condition of Mr. Calcutt's report had interfered with its being put upon the schedule/ although Mr. Vogel had admitted that the line was of great importance* Referring to the deputation from Nelson to Christ* church, and the result of their interview with Mr. Vogel, he said it appeared that.the opinion Mr. Yogel expressed to them had been modified subsequently, and that now the land required as security must b» double tbe value of the works to be executed. It ■ must be remembered, however, that the sum involved in various Provincial works as given in the Financial Statement this year waa a very Urge one, and showed a total of something like £340,000. The difficulty was that with this Urge sum already voted, the House. would hesitate at consenting to further expenditure, although it was not to be understood that the Cabinet had concluded in a way that was adverse to the work. Mr. Luckie then gave extracts. from the. Financial and Public Works Statements to confirm, the opinion that Government intended that the work A lif now postponed (or a- space, should afterwards be , performed. With the whole revenue of the Province 1 hypothecated to the work, there appeared to be ample securities, but the constitution of the House presented difficulties againit the work being agreed, to. It was the intention of our members to endeavor to get the Ministry to have this line inserted in the schedule this session, with the understanding that the mineralogical survey should follow, and if they - succeeded in getting this done, the Provinoe might fairly be congratulated, and to effect it he. would most cordially work with them. Mr. Solandbbß did not think Mr. LuokiVs remarks were quite satisfactory. He had spoken of the constitution of the House of Representatives as. being a difficulty, and leading us to understand that after all oar labors, watching, and waiting we were likely to be left much as we were. The question should be entirely divested .of any political aspect ; and when the Government was' spoken to it seemed so fully to enter into all our schemes that they all looked upon the question as definitely settled} now, it appeared that sudden difficulties have arisen,, and Mr. Vogel, it had been stated, had sent Mr* Luckie over here as his lieutenant to quiet them over and make things comfortable. Would the men of Nelson stand, this? (Uproar, and cries of "No, no,") The Government had expressed its willingness to recommend the line, subject to Mr. Caloutc'a report, and upon such a survey as that was our most vital interests are to depend! The Government agreed that the certificate of tha Chief Engineer, as to its paying expenses, could not (be so stringently - required in this case, for they looked upon it m a bridge to connect ue. with important parts of the Provinoa and the* South. The West aspect of the case meant a delay of one or two yean, and if a mineral surrey was insisted upon, probably three or four years would elapse. It was first stated that nothing more than Mr. Wrigg's report would be wanted, but now they were told that further surveys were required, and that the construction of the line was a question of time. They were siok of the cry. It required united action, and the work should be authorised this session. (Hear.) There was only one way to get this done, wd with this trie*, and apart from politics altogether* ha would propose:— l That this meeting is of opinion that unless the Genera Government use their hest endeavors to obtain the autho rity of the General Assembly during the present session for the construction of the Fox Hill and Brnnnerton railway, they will be undeserving of the support of the Nelson, members in Parliament. Mr. Pitt seconded. He assured the meeting that the resolution was not levelled at the members nor at Mr. Vogel; it was purely non-political. .Having formed one of the Deputation, he would state his views before they deoided upon what might be considered a strong resolution. The second deputation were told that the railway should be constructed, if it received tb* approbation of tbe Oounoil—that waa. . if the people wished for.it. We were now toktthatt - special securities were required, and the land must be worth double the cost of the line, fy that rule, the probabilities were that the value would never bex . shown, although 100 aorta of i\ qugty be equal to the whole cost. Nothing had b#en said about the cost ofr • geological survey, of haw long it would take, bu£ h* baliarsd il would out MBWbH Uw railway

*naj;tes>, Jkf*. Jjnoljia gaid that |fh« Ministry wag sincere, and he should he much surprised hiuuplf if thej were not. Objeotion might be raised against the resolution that it was coercing the Government too greatly, but he did not think so, besides, other Pro< inces had followed tbia method in the matter of mail services* and it was necessary for us to do likev ise, and put on pressure until what we asked for was obtained, and if the Q-ofernment was sincere it could not object to put tliis line upon the sohedule this yeor. He knew that the time would come when all those works would be colonially charged, and we should have to bear our share of the burden without having received any of the benefits. We were willing to give our land and pledge our reserves for ■whut we wished to get, and under the circumstances he thought the terms of that resolution were not too strong. (Cheers.)

Mr. Luokib said he thought there was some error in the statement about: double seourity being required. Mr. Selanderi had referred to him as being Mr. Yogel's lieutenant sent to make things pleasant. If it were so, he could only say that he served a very able captain; but the fact was that Mr. Vogel did not know of his coming until he informed him himself. Mr. Luckie then referred to the telegrams sent to our members referring to their withdrawing their support from the Government if the railway was not placed on the schedule this session. This meant that, supposing a vote of want of confidence was directed against the Government, and their going out would place into power a warlike Government, who would bring devastation and bloodshed upon the country, their members to vote against the present Ministry. This was coercion that no member worthy of the name would submit to. He for one would not. (Applause.) He would aot to ths besfcof his ability in that whioh he considered right, and if they wert not satisfied with him they could tell him bo, and he would go to-morrow. (Cheers.) The Chairman then put the resolution, which was carried unanimously.

Totes of thanks were passed to Mr. Luckie and the Chairman, and the meeting separated.