NELSON PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Colonist, Volume X, Issue 743, 12 July 1867, Page 2

NELSON PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

TUESDAY, JULY 9th. ',; In consequence of the absence of some of the country members detained by bud weather, and the absence of the Provincial Solicitor, who is confined to tho house, there was a count out this evening.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 10th. DRY DOCK.

■Mr. SimmonJ)S moved that " this Council is of opinion that a dry dock is the most suitable structui'e for repairing vessels in Nelson Harbor." He stated his belief that the majority of the Council were in favor of a dry dock, and he thought it desirable that the Council should express its wishes on the subject, and leave the Superintendent to take action upon it. A dry dock was a more permanent structure than a patent slip, which-'was more liable to injury, and more easily placed out of repair than a dock. . Mr. Buntley seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary opposed the motion ; the Council had already expressed its opinion in the Act which it had passed, not as to whether a dock or a slip was preferable, but that they left it to the Executive to obtain information on both subjects, and decide on that information. It would therefore, be absurd in the Council to pass this resolution. The Council in its present state of information were not competent to decide on the subject. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Macaiahon opposed the motion, affirming that tli3 Council was not competent to decide on au engineering question. Mr. F. Kelling said it was a decision, the responsibility of which should be borne by the Executive. The Superintendent and his advisers were best fitted to decide, and the Council would be going out of its province by deciding on a subject of the kind, of which it can know so little. ■ After a few words from Mr. White and Mr. Donne, Mr. Pitt said it was not for the Council to express an opinion on this subject at present, but for the Executive to act. No doubt it would be desirable to have a good stone-built dock, but the sum provided by tha Act was, he feared, too small for a dock of the size required. Mr. Baigent opposed ths motion. It was suggested that Mr. Si.lnln.onJs withdraw his motion. . . Mr. SnraoNDS replied, stating that he was not to be intimidated by what hon. members said, and affirming that a patent slip would not permit of vessels going on it at all states of the tide. (A laugh.)

On the question being put, Mr. Simmonds called for a division, which had the following result: — Ayes Noes Declined to 5. 5. Vote—9. Mr. Donne . Mi*. Sparrow Provincial Secretary „ Bentley „ C. Kelling Mr. Pitt „ Kingdon „ F. Kelling ~ Gibbs . „ Akersten „ Beitt ~ Wigley „ Simmonds „ Macmahon „ White „ Burn „ Parke.r

„ Baigent „ Wastney. The Ayes and Noes being equal the Speaker gave his casting vote" with the Noes, and the motion was thus rejected. EOADS ON THE MOTTTERE. Mr. C. K/ellin& moved "That his Homr the Superintendent be respectfully requested to send a surveyor, with the least possible delay, to look at and report upon a proposed deviation from the present road leading over the hills from Waimea West to the Moutere Districts." Agreed to. LICENSING 'WATERMEN1. Mr. Akebstes" moved, "That this Council is of opinion that the Watermen and ballast-getters of the Port oi'Nelson, should be licensed." Itwa3 tho wish of the watermen to be licensed, as in fair weather any body was a boatman, and any boat a passenger boat; but in dirty weather very fow were to be seen. By this menn3 the watenpen's chances were materially lessened, and the people underwent risk, besides not being properly served. If it was necessary to inspect hackney carriages, and license their drivers, it was surely more so iv regard to boats and boatman ; in the case of carriages, a passenger may have a limb broken through a bad carriage or inefllsiont driver; but in a boat, an unfit boat, or unqualified waterman, might cause the loss of a whole bout load of lives.

Mr. Dcrn seconded the motion. Mr. F. Kelling- objected to tho imposing of a tax. Mr. Bentley supported the motion, and suggested that there should be a scale of charges fixed. The Provincial Secretary said it was unnecessary to pass a bill, as by the Mariua Act the Superintendent was empowered to license boatmen, and if the Council thought it uecess.iry, no doubt it would be done. Mr. Parker said, that had the Government been alive to their duty, tbsy would hare scon before thi* time the necessity of licensing boata, as they had better means of information on this subject than the Ojuncil had. Tho motion was agreed to.

THE ESTIMATES.

On (-.ho motion that the Council go into committee on the Estimates, Mr. DoNXfi hoped the Council would not go into committee'without a discussion. As representative of the gold-fields population, anil tho wants of an important district, lie obj^:fcj:l to tho framing of tlie Estimates. The gold-fields wore yiel.ling aS .least, twothirds of the whole revenue of tha province ; but fcho Estimates were framed in a mv.wer which did great injtxstico tc the gold-fields. It had pleased members to laugh at and pooh pooh uU measures which were brought forward for the bunellb of the Goldfields. (Loud cries of "n0.n0.") He repeated the assertion that it was so with nearly every proposal he (ilr. Don no) brought forward. (A. laugh.) lie denied tha statement that had been made that more money had been expended on the West Coast than it had yielded ; a?id now, although tho Gold-fields yielded two-thirds of the revenue, (no no), little more ■than one-third was to be spent on the Gold-fields district. The Council wasmanifestiy unwillin^todevote that attention to the matters ■affecting the large district wliich he had the honor to represent, which the magnitude of its interests deserved. Mr. Donne then repeated a number of figures. The actual revenue wag estimated at £115,750, which he thought was below the mark; of the £35,000 set down as Customs Revenue, fully £25,0^0 camo from the Gold-fields, (no no) ; of the Land Revenue of £12,000, at least £1000 ought to be planed to the credit of the Yfest Coast; there was £32,000 of Hie Gold Duty, and Ihe 'Gold-fields Revenue as it was termed, which consisted of Miuer's Rights, and business licenses, was set down tit £15,003 ; making the Revenue derived from the Gold-fields £78,550, or fully two-thirds of the gross Revenue. It was inexpedient he thought to go into the Committee of supply, until there was placed fairly and fully before tho country all these facts, and the further facts of the manner in which the Revenue was proposed to he spent. Inferring to the estimated expenditure, he said that in the northeastern portions of the province, it was proposed to s"pend £10,460 on departmental expenditure ; other expenditure amounted to £19,216; for public works and road boards, £24,000 was to be spent, added to which was from £5000 to £6000 already voted for being placed ou the estimates for other purposes; making £65,675 to be spent on the east side of the province, while what is derived from it was only little more than £35,000. Yet the Government proposed to spend on the West Coast only some £48,000 ; and be feared it would not be otherwise, so long us the Weat Coast permitted the Council to take so large an amount out of the Revenue. He would be very sorry to make use of any platitudes, or to court popularity as ho might do, it was not for that purpose ho came here, but tod o his duty for the place he represented. West Corst matters, he was sorry to say, had not received that amount of attention which they wanted, and he considered it was unjust. Already there were whisperings of monster petitions being got up, praying the General Government to take the Gold-fields management out of the bands of the Provincial

Government, and this should net' as a warning. Ho hoped tlio opportunity would not be l>st by tho Council of gracefully acknowledging the claims of the West Coast. He thought tho Government might take a leaf out of the,book of the Cmterbury Government, (laughter) who were addressing themselves to tho best means of doing justice to the West Coast, and were takiug measures for opening tracks and roads, and if was S'tid the Superintendent intended to spend three or-four months of the yen1 on the We3fc Coast. He concluded by suggesting that ■ the Estimates should be sent back to the- Government for alteration, and moved that the Council do not; go into committee until that is done.

A corsiderablo pause ensued, there was no seconder of the. amendinentj which accordingly fell to tha ground. The PEOTiNOiiii Secretary said that Mr. Donne had made an attack on the Government which was not altogether new ; he thought he hai heard it before, as far as regarded the charge of neglecting the West Coast, which was altogether without foundation. (Hear, hea*\) He modestly assumed to himself various erroneous figures, and then based on these an attack on .the Government. Ho asserted that two-thirds of the total revenue wa? Gjld-fields revenue, a statement altogether incorrect, just as it was (had such an amount belonged to the West Coast, and that the West Coast was entitled to a much greater "share of the expenditure than was proposed to be given. Ho would not follow the hon. gentleimn through his long speech, but he "Would distinctly deny that two-thirds of the revenue was received from the Gold-fields, or anytbmg like that amount; and it conld not be admitted that the Cust-oms and gold duties was to bo regarded as Gold-fields revenue, or that ifc could be fairly claimed to be spent on the Gold-fields, find that for reasons that had already been stated in the Superintendent's speech. It was in-' correct to cay that £25,000 out of the £35,000 of Kstimated Customs revenue, should be considered as from the Gold-fields. The receipts during last year were £24,000; of which £13,000 was from Nelson, and £10,000 from the West; Coast, so it is difficult to see why such a considerable increase should bo sot down for the West Coast receipts, and such a decrease against Kelson Port. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Donne had also sought to mislead the Council by quoting from the comparative statement, and endeavoring to show tlvit only £10.000 had been spent on the West Coast during the past year; whereas a return laid on the table, applied for by Mr. Donno himself, showed a departmental expenditure of £11,000, and an expenditure of £15,000 ou public works, making a total of £26,000 expeuded on the Nelson Gold-fields during the year. (Crie3 of hear, hear.) The Council had also been told that they should follow the example of the Canterbury Government in the management of the Gold-fields —(laughter)—but the lion, member was tho first and ouly person who had evor recommended this course, especially with regard to the expenditure. ' (Hear, hoar.) On the contrary, the Nelson Government had always been held up "as an example for Canterbury to follow—(hear, hear) —and the mining community of Canterbury would only be too glad to be placed under the management of Nelson. (Hoar, hear.)

•Mr. ParkeU said that the main points'of Mr. Donne's injudicious assertions had been fully answered by the Provincial Secretary. Ho was very much surprised that it did not strike Mr. Dohue that if there were 15,000 inhabitants on the Gold-fields, there were at least other 15,000 iv the settled districts of the Province, as the census would show, and who not only were taxed for roads and otherwise, but contributed very largely to the revenue of tho country; whoso years of toil and industry had made the Province ; who had improved it, and cultivated, and settled in it. (Hear, heap.) Ho also forgot that there was a great additional expenditure in every department caused by the Gold-fields management. (Hear, hoar.) Mi». Doxne : I should have stated that there is the £24,000 expended on roaJa to tho West Coast, which tho Nelson Government ought to get credit for. Mr. Parker contended that it was not right that such unfounded charges as Mr. Donno had made should go forth to the mining community, as that their interests were neglected by the Council, which was a gratuitous calumny—(heav, hear) —for there was the greatest desire in tJio Oitincil 'o-j <Io ihs ; amplest justice to tho Gold-field?. (Hear, hear.) It was entirely absurd to say that tho gold duty belonged to the West Coast and should he spent there, yet this was assured by Mr. Donne. [Mr. Dome : Certainly.]

Mr. Pitt censured Mr. Danne for ropeatedly making tho assertion th.it the Council neglected tho interests of the West Coast. The statement was altogether unjust; and Mr. Donna throughout his speech had proceeded ou false premises. If he could show, which he had never attempted to do, that tho sums set dowa for expenditure for publio works nnd purposes on the West Coast were too small for the works required, and that a larger sum was necessary, the Council on this being clearly shown would readily agree to its increase—(hear, hear) —and Mr. Donne was entirely wrong in jumping to tho conclusions that thero was a desire to do injustice to tho AVest Coast. The whole of his arguments were erroneous for the inh.ibi .ants had never expressed any dissatisfaction with the management of tho G-jld-fields, as they would hare done through their representatives had there boen cause ; but thay had repaatedly expressed their satisfaction in many ways. The fact wis Mr. Donne's statements were only ns3Gi-tions, and thera was not a single sound argument in support of these assertions. Mr. Bextivey also repudiate:! the ideas of Mr. Donne, who had referred to him ; and said ho was responsible to his constituents, and not to Mr. Donno. Mr. Bun's, Mr. Kel^ino-, and Mr. Aktsestejj also objected to the injustice of the repeated accusations which Mr. Bonus threw oat against the Council.

Mr. Akekstex suggested that an arrangement should ho made by which voles for the most pressing and important work should bo taken, and these .fixed by tho Couircil as those which should be first proceeded with; as, otherwise, if tho revenue should be below the proposed expenditure, ifc may happen that these most pressing work nny be those which are set aside for others. The Council then went into committee on tho Estimates ; Mr. KinGrdon in the chair. On the item for filling up the blank left for the salary of tho Superintendent. Mr. B.uetENT moved that £800 be the sum; the same as it was last year.

Mr. BsuTiiEr proposed an amendment. He said tho Superintendent of the province wa3 formerly in a different position from that which (he present Superintendent occupied, and therefore the sum of £600 might have been sufficient, but ifc was different, noff. Otago gave its Superintendent £1500, and Canterbury £1500, and this province should place the Superintendent, in a proper position. He had large and delic.ite duties to perform, and had to be the representative of tho Council and province in the English money market; and if we proposed to ruse money for a railway, the first thing the people (it home would ask, would be " how much do you pay your Supcrin'endcnt ?" and the giving him a large salary would show that wo were in a good position, (Laughter.) He hoped that as this was a deliwte point it would be passed without discussion. l*e proposed that the salary be £1000. Mr. White supported Mr. Bentley's amendment) ar,d in so doing said he was opposed as a rule to high salaries, and while he would oppose all increase in the subordinate salaries (hear, hear, from Mr. lientlcy) he thought the head of the Government should have a proper salay. The heads of many mercantile concerns which had not so much money through their .hands gave as much, and sometimes more, to their head clerics. The province had suffered very materially from the fact that the salary was not more, and therefore many good men had been prevented coming forward and competing for the office. (Laughter.) Mr. BaiN, vrho opposed the amendment, jested at the queer logic of tho last speaker as to the salaries and pointed out that there had been no lack of goo* men offering themselves for the office. (Hear, hear.) If a medium sum had been proposed he might have been inclined to vote for it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Domra said he had put down £1000 in ha papers as the proper sum which should be voted. The Superintendent had great responsibilities; tne duties of the office had greatly increased and the revenue had nearly doubled. The heads of depart'

were wretchedly underpaid. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Benlley.) Mr- Wastney opposed the amendment, and would yotc for the original proposition. Tho whole of our departmental expenditure was already sufficiently Inr^c. (Hear, hear.) Tho duties had been performed l^ a much, smaller sum, and there was no appearance of any heavier work being performed by the superintendent. Ho saw the Commissioner of West fj o nsfc Goldlields had been put down at £700, and no doubt this was to bo made U9O of as a ground for increasing tho Superintendent's salary. (Hear, lien I-) jfr. Pakker referred to tho Superintendent's opening speech, m which he spoke of the necessity of jfihieing departmental expenses, which if it meant jurtliing at nil, meant tliat tlic departmental offices yf're too highly paid ; but the moTcr and seconder of j],js mnendment alleged that they vrere underpaid. jjucli a motion could not have received the consent of (lie Superintendant, or if so, his opening speech wa9 (imply intended to mislead. (Uea", hear ; and " JSTo, B o", from tho Provincial Secretary.) j[r. Macmahon opposed the'nmendment. The present Superintendent, at Motuelia, bitterly complained of the expense of Provincial Governments, ,„(! unless his friends and supporters were favorable to of the provinces they could not have ,jvocated this increase. The only thing he could jnderetand was that this increase was proposed in the ijnie way as Sir David Monro and others had jjpporled tho New Provinces Act, in order that by jiiHiplying they might destroy them. ' jfr. White said he did not promise his support to )[ r , Curtis or any one else, but he thought it wouldjdisgrace to the province if it marked its sense of the [JiM by voting a less sum than £1000. jfr. Pitt could not agree with the proposal to Bate the salary £1000. No doubt the salary should \t increased, but not to that sum. It must not be jterlooked that the Gold Commissioner was set down at 000, and the Superintendent's salary should not be ;,;! than his. The Superintendent was expected to jjtertain visitors from other provinces, and ho ought | 9 be enabled to perform such hospitalities. He cored £800 as the sum. The Provincial Secretary pointed out that a 1862, when the revenue was £44,000, the Superintendent's salary was £600; the revenue was r,jK» trebled and the duties greatly increased, while ife salary was at the same rate. Indeed the duties ifall the heads of departments had increased. The prajraph in the Superintendent's speech, referred to it Mr. Parker, had reference to the Gold-fiolds and to il'ts alone, and it did not state that the officers of t;e departments were overpaid, it only recommended iht provision should be made to dispense with Gold- <>](!, officers should the revenue decline, which the ipfocli said there was no prospect of its doing. }Ir. Gibes opposed the amendment, and denied I'-at there had been a difficulty in getting good men for the office. There were three good its brought forward at last election. He objected to I'r.Bentloy's idea of going to the Stock Exchange on £s fact of a large salary being paid to the SnperintenEtt— (hear, hear) —the thing was very absurd. As :'(the Commissioner's salary of £700, he should stably object to that item when it came before the tfeincil; mid if, as was suggested, we wished to ■ rtipete with Otago and Canterbury in their iitMTafffince, we ought to be warned by their fate. Jfr, Paekee repeated that the paragraph referred jtulMirly meant the desirability of decreasing the !;prtmentnl expenditure, and it was absurd to say iiiiit referred to the Gold-fields alone; and every i-iwlio read the paragraph must see that it referred Mlif-r departments. (Hear, hear.) IkPuoviNCiAijSECRKTABY repeated his opinion KKlir.s! the meaning of the clause, as applicable to fcGolcl-fields only. [Mr. Parker :It does not read F,tk' the Superintendent mystified his meaning.] Raid the Superintendent had £200 less than the pay rife Provincial Secretary of Canterbury, and added tithe was favorable to Mr. Pitt's amendment. lis Committee then divided on the motion that ©beset down as the Superintendent's salary, tifefollocving result: — itif A-Messrs. Sirnmonds, Macmahon, Baigent t?;/ife\ncy. ■ .. fe. 13-Messrs. Pitt, (GUbhs, Sparrow, C. Kcl- ::. Wipley, Donne, F. Kelling, Beitt, White, J:,t'fv, il;ersten, Burn, and Parker. tolliHHl to vote —The Provincial Secretary, and i? Speaker. irr.Bi'.2ent's motion vras therefore lost. It Pitt's amendment for £800 was t^en put, and n carried by a majority of 12 to 6, the votes

Iyes, 12-Messrs. Parker, Simmonds, Burn, fetcn, Beit*, F. Kelling, Wigley, C. Selling, Saw, Gibbs, Pitt, and the Provincial Secretary. Sob, 6—Messrs. Wastney, Baigent, Macmahon, 3(!fv, White, and Donne. 'lie Speaker declined to vote. On the item, "Provincial Secretary £400," Ir.Dcorxe moved that the Provincial Secretary's fcbe £600, instead of £400, and Mr. Whitk cd that it, be £350, making some remarks with j'weto Mr. Donne's much talking, which Ihe rer resented by emphatically declaring that he &1& be led by his own judgment, and whenever Kjniigment prompted him to speak he would as (cries of hoar, hear, and laughter), that he Rented 10,000 persons, in a district which proof the revenue, (No, no, and laugh--9i that lie did not care twopence for the Superinor the Secretary's opinion of his vote ; that "'as euided by an honesty, integrity, and simpurpose (hear, hear), and he would act and I^s lie thought right, sneered at the inconsistency of the l- ef Or C'obden, and declared that instead of t? the representative of 10,000 persons, he repreonly some 30 publicans; and yet, while j^ng the Council all round with spending too ss money on this-part of the province, and nethe West Coast, he came forward and VM a large increase on all salaries. It was the incor.sis.l ent proceeding. (Hear, hear.) -to a division, the item £400 was carried by 14 proposed £350, instead of £250, f'] for the Provincial Solicitor, but' the amendi'Wis rejected, and the sum passed as in the ■ Sates.

Hcitom £50 for Clerical Assistance in the ; car °fs Department, !;«Provincial Sf.cretaet referred to the remark f'. f made by Mr. Parker respecting what the J"; Superintendent hod repeatedly said about the <f'ifss of a Treasurer, and that the bank could work. He daid that often members in :•'« Knew nothing of what they were talking about, '«things, which after they got into office they ,M to be very absurd—(laughter)—although fm say that was so in the case of the Superin- * (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Treasurer- ;, ss a necessary office, and the work was now ■Mcr than it was, and the late Treasurer had ;!•« assistance. Fifteen years ago, when the J was only £20,000 the Treasurer had £150, ,£ it wns increased six times, the amount |uaaie» although the work was much greater. s ; iEKKR said it was a very remarkable admission i)y{ tl)0 Superintendent did not know what he of when speaking of accounts and banking tV.u? lie rer<asnl J did nofc ejpect that the t pi Secretary would have acknowledged so ?L , Wondered what the supporters 'of Mr. yJMd think after this. He (Mr Parker) had re pealed]ymako the statement about the dj''' 3. o' th° Treasurer, and now they were told *i|,V was abeurd- Yet > Mr. Curtis had <*,!] , ut l his business capacity, and had told the 'i O fi . wnß the best man for negotiating all «to' Slncs>B ' and now tlie Secretary told them i^ r ot know what be was talking about. It £,J Te<7 candid, and he thanked the hon. fcjf f °r the admission. t '-CIfAHON made a few remarks to the same

Mln furt'ler observations, the Committee HJ motion for £50 for clerical assistance w* rer* \ tT^ 16 Provincial Secretary, Messrs. Pitt. Vs i T ne > Wllite > Bentley, and Akersten. Gibb8' Beitfc» Simmonds, Parker, w» *aigcnt, Wastney, Rn d the Speaker,

The item was therefore siruolc out. A number of members lefc the Clmmber when the division was called. A division fook plncn on the ifom clerical assistance in the Crown Lands Department, which was agreed to by a majority of 8 to 6. The Council then resumed, and adjou.rn.od shortly before 10 o'clock.

THURSDAY, JULY 11th,

Tn the Council last night, the Report of the Committee respecting the Hospital wi\3 adopted. The Council then went into Committee on the Estimates, and got as far down as the Scab Act. In the survey department, the Second Surveyor was ynised frpm £250 on the Estimates to £275. In the ite n, " Provincial Engineer, £650," the figures were struck out on a division by 12 to 8; and on the motion of the Speaker, the 'figures £600 were substituted, being £25 more than was voted last year. Tno Speaker explninpd that he objected to the Provincial Engineer being used as a lever by which to raise the salary of the Superintendent, as had twice been done. The salary of the Gaoler, also Meteorological Registrar was fixed at £275. TLere were no other items of importance.