PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Colonist, Issue 50, 13 April 1858, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

I Thursday, Apiul 8. The Council assembled this evening at 5 o'clock. DUN MOUNTAIN RAILWAY. Mr. Mackay brought up the report of the select committee on the Dun Mountain Hail way. Bill, the report having been read, Mr. Mackay moved that; the Bill be printed..; Mr. Sinclair seconded the motion, when considerable discussion arose as to1 whether the bill be printed at the expense of the company or not. Eventually. . Mr. Saunders moved as an amendment " That the Dun Mountain Railway Bill, with the new clauses, be printed at the expense of the company," ■ Mr/DoDsoN seconded the amendment;,■'which' on division was.carried. ; , NEW ROADS, BRIDGES, &c. Mr. Sinclair brought up the report of the select committee oh?the proposed votes for new Roads, Bridges,&c, and.movedthat it be read. This having been done the hon. gentleman moved that it be referred to the committee-on the Appropriation Bill. l Mr. Mackay seconded the motion, which was adopted. ' ' ■,?' NELSON IMPROVEMENT BILL. Mr! Sharp moved " That the Nelson Improvement Amendment Bill be re-committed for the purpose of inserting a new clause," and said that in making this motion he was desirous of rectifying an error made when the bill was last in committee, whereby Clause 24 was left out. Mr. Curtis seconded the motion, which having been adopted, the House went into committee on the bill, when • ' Mr; Sharp moved as a new clause—"Whenever two-tliirds of the ratepayers occupying; property contiguous to any^ st,r<iet or road shall represent to the board tHeh* Willingness to be specially rated for any public work for the particular improvement of the said street, such as the laying down of a culvert or culverts for the drainage or sewage of the said street or road, paving the foot-paths or other such works, the board shall, if they see fit, levy annually for six years a special rate in respect of such property; such special rate not to exceed two shillings in the pound upon the sum at which such improvements shall be as T sessed; and the amount of such rate shall be paid in accordance with the provisions contained in clauses 9,10, andll of this Act: Provided always, that no owner or occupier shall be'included in such : rate who shall not in the opinion of the board be benefited by the outlay; and- provided also, that the board snallhave power to exempt, wholly for in part, as they shall see fit, any occupier from the payment of the rate;" and said this was a clause similar in spirit to fthat contained in the old bill, but that he had made afewalterations which in his opinion, would render its interpretation more clear; for instance, there had been some doubt whether the words owner Or occupiers meant both "owners and occupiers" of the same property. This he had altered by substituting the word "ratepayer," .which.now showed who was the person to vote. E[e considered that the special rate should not exceed 12s. in the pound upon the amount of improvement effected, and thought that the assessment should extend over six years in annual payments of two shillings in the pound, whereby the mere occupant of a house for a short period would not be called upon to.pay the whole amount levied for a permanent improvement. The Provincial Solicitor said he should like to see the six years extended to twelve years, as it appeared to him that some such improvement works would cost a large sum of money, and therefore fall heavily on individuals*: He would suggest that the clause be postponed. : ; Mr. Sharp said that if the time were extended over twelve years it would hardly of the payment of interest on the money expended. What he maintained was: suppose the board made ah improvement arid had iio" power to levy a special rate therefor, the whole town would have topay for a mere local advantage, whereas under his proposed clause they would at least be called upon to pay 2s, in the pound for six years. ' Some discussion thereupon ensued, when The Provincial Solicitor, moved that the consideration of the proposed lieV clause be post-poned—-that the chairman Jejport progress, and ask leave to sit again on Tuesday next. This motion having been adopted, the House resumed. , ■ : EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT. The Provincial Solicitor moved that the Speaker do leave the chair, in order that the House may go hito committee On the Education Amendment Act, with Mr. Mackay in fclie chair. The motion haying been adopted, the House went into committee, and ■ The Provincial Solicitor proposed the following amendment in clause s:—" After tlio word 'years' in line 11, insert 'without fee or payment.'" The motion was unanimously adopted, when the Chairman reported the bill as amended, and the House resumed. COUNTRY ROADS AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. Kelling moved—" The second reading of the Country Roads Amendment Bill," and said the bill had been drawn by the Provincial Solicitor in accordance with a report of the Select Committee which had deliberated thereon, he would therefore simply move its second reading. Mr. Sinclair seconded the motion, which was adopted, and the bill read a second time accord-, ingly. '.-■ :'.' :' ' ";. '■'."■ ' ."•'■ ; ■-.'. Mr. Kelling then moved that the Speaker do leave the chair, and that the Council go into committee on the bill, with Mr. Mackay in the chair. This having been adopted, The Preamble was postponed. Clause 1 read • and passed. In clause 2, Mr. Sawders moved that the Board do consist of 5 members instead of 7as proposed. Amendment carried. Clause 3 adopted. Clauses 4, 5, 6, and 7, postponed. Clause 8 read, when Mr. Eban said he thought it would be better if the ratepayers elected an assessor, as they would then have the means of arriving at a fair value of the property in the district.. Mr. Dodson said his experience had taught him that parties usually assessed their property at more than the actual value; as an instance he would state that one man in his district had assessed his property at £300, and noticing the board conferring one with another, he took back: his paper and put his property down at £500, and on being asked why he did that, he said, " Ah, I, see the dodge, I shall have a vote now for the Trust Board."

Mr. Marsden /was, about making.aniotion; when some discussion ensued as to whether he was in order, and ; • ■': Mr. Robinson moved that the House resume in; order that they might ascertain from the Speaker: if the motion could be put. The House having resumed^ " The Speaker said he thought that Mr. Mavsden was not in order. The question contained in his; motion had been discussed in a full' House'- and a' yote taken thereon.

The House, on the motion of Mr. Keeling, then again went into committee, when clauses 8 and 9 were adopted. •..:■-. \:; •- ;: , Clause 10 having been read, > • § Mr. Saunuers said he "objected-to the latter part of the clause referring to by-roads. He thought the whble of the rate should be expended on the trunk lines, and would therefore move to expunge that part which referred to the laying out of money on other than the trunk lines.

Mr. Dodson said he felt sure that "the ratepayers would feel dissatisfied if they thought that "the money contributed by them under this act; would; be expended on other than the .trunk roads, and would therefore second the amendment.:

Mr. Eban said he differed from Mr. Saunders, because if the Superintendent were satisfied that the trunk roads were in a state of good repair, surely the local boards might be permitted to repair their by-roads, they being the ,b.est judges of how their surplus money should be employed, after fulfilling the requirements of this act. Mr. Saunders' amendment on being put was carried.

Mr. Euan then moved an amendment to the effect that the ratepayers should assemble and decide how the surplus of any rate then in' hand Should be expended,'

Upon which some slight discussion ensiled, and the amendment on division \ras carried. Clause 10 as amended was then adopted. Clauses were 11 and 12 passed. On consideration of the schedule fixingthe amount of tolls, the toll for every ox, or head,of neat cattle was on the motion of Mr. Maksden increased from : l|d.to2d. ; The following is the schedule, of tolls :— b. d. For every sheep, lamb, pig, or goat .. .. 0. 0£ For every ox, or head of neat cattla .... 0 2For every liorsc, mare, gelding, ass, or mule . 0 4 For every gig, cart, dray, or other vehicle : drawn by one horse ~ .. ■• ;. 0 8 For every other horse above one, drawing any ■ one vehicle .. ... ~ .. 0 6 The Chairman then reported, progress, and asked leave to sit again on Tuesday. MOTUEKA MAGISTRATES Mr. Parker moved—" That his Honor the Su-* perintendent be requested to place the sum of £12 on the. Estimates for the hire of suitable accoraodation for the magistrates of Motueka .to hold their sittings in." • •■ ' . \. Mr. Baigent seconded the.motion, which was adopted. ESTIMATES. The House then went into committee on the Estimates, with Mr. Curtis in the chair, and the first item having been read, The Provincial Secretary moved that th«* chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow. This motion having been adopted the House resumed, and after notices of motion had been given, adjourned. Fridavt, April 9. The Council assembled this day at 11 o'clock. The Speaker having takeu the chair, Mr. Vyvyan presented a petition from Majoi* Gascoyne, which having, been vead was ordered to lie on the table. SURVEY DEPARTMENT. Mr. Mackay brought up the report of the select committee on the Survey Department, and gave notice that on Wednesday next he would move that it be adopted: COUNTRY ROADS BILL. Mr. Kelling moved—"That a copy of resolution, No. 3, in the report of the select committee on the Country Roads Bill; be forwarded to his Honor the Superintendent." Mr. Sinclair seconded the motion, which was adopted. ' ; MEETING OF THE COUNCIL. . Mr. Kelling moved—"That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to summon the Council in future before the end of the financial year," and said, that he had always been of opinion that the Council should meet before the expiry of the financial year. Last year nearly six months had, elapsed before the year's supplies were voted, and again this year they were nearly one-third through, it, whereby they had been compelled to vote frequent supplies. He thought it would be far more convenient were they to "meet before the expiration of the year, as then they would have no racesj yacht meetings} or harvest to require their adjournment. Mr. Mackay seconded the motion. . Mr. Saunders ■ said he quite agreed .with the1 intention of the mover, but he thought the motion did hot go far enough, as it still permitted the SuEerintendent to summon them about the time of arvest. He would therefore as an amendment move—" That his Honor the Superintendent be requested' to summon this Council in future not less than three months before the end of the financial year. Mr. Kelling seconded the amendment, as he thought it a great improvement on his motion. ~ Mr. Wklls said that the amendment if carried would still call them together at an inconvenient time* ■ • . ~ Mr. Sharp said he thought the Council should fix a time for its meeting, for although it was awkward for the Government to expend money before it was voted, it was still more inconvenient for the Council to meet before the year's balance was known* On division the amendment was lost. Mr. Marsden proposed-1-" That except in case of any emergency,! the best time' to summon the Council will'be the middle of March." Mr. Sharp seconded the amendment, and said if the object of hon." members was that the Council should meet before the termination of the fi- • nancial year, they could, easily achieve that by | altering the date of the- commencement of the financial year. • • Mr. Robinson said he (objected to Cpuncrl being called together 2 ov 3" months' after the money had been half spent.. ~. „. ~ On division the amendment was lost." Mr. Curtis proposed—"That his Ifqp'or tWe Superintendent be requested to summon the Council on or about the Ist of August in each. year." . -~-.. Mr. Sinclair seconded the amendment. . .. Mr. Parker said he would rather meet in the month of November, as then they could transact then- business without adjournments for suppers, races, &c. . Mr. Dodson said , this amendment, if carried," would summon them to meet at a wet time of. the year, with dark nights ; and as the Council had reduced the amount of their pay, the country members living sufficiently near would have to return at night after the adjournment of the Council, and this he thought would" be rather inconvenient.

Mr. Sharp also opposed the amendment, which on division was lost by 9 against 8. The Provincial Solicitor' said' he thought that the Council should meet either in August or March, and he thought March would be—— : f The Speaker said the hon. gentleman had spoken, yet if the Council seemed disposed to indulge him with a second speech, he (the Speaker) had no objection.

The original motion was then put and on division lost. •■■■-■■.• . ■; :.: -: ' .:. •'

HOSPITAL COMMITTEE. . Mr. Saunders moved—? That a copy. of the Hospital Committee Report "be forwarded to his Honor the Superintendent, with a request that he will be pleased to take Mich steps as he may con-sider-necessary to give effect to the recommendations contained therein."

Mr. Parker seconded the motion.

Mr. Sinclair asked if it would not be better were a copy of that report also forwarded to Dx. Wilson, whose very professional reputation was now at stake. . -

■Mr. Saunders said 'that Dr. Wilson had had . every opportunity given to him to refute the .evidence produced ;he bad promised to give.his .eyi~ dence in .writing to the committee, but had not done so; however he had no objection to the aniendation proposed by Mr. Sinclair. Mr. Robinson' said ho certainly thought that a copy should als.o be forwarded, to Dr. Wilson, who fancied that ,the committee had been' person.ally opposed to himl\. He thought that every opportunity should be given to Dr. Wilson to h&\e the last word upon a question'of such serious ini-* portance. . • . The Provincial Secretary said that the com- c mittec had undoubtedly been anxious to permit Dr. Wilson to make any statement he wished. He had made viva voce statements, and. had promised to give in a written statement of his evidence, but it appears he" had' not done so; .he thought that the amendment suggested by Mr.' Sinclair was quite right, and would remove any-' thing like the appearance of haste. ..... Mr. Dodson said he thought that Dr." Wilson should have every opportunity of seeing the report. His professional reputation was impugned, and surely they would not decide a case involving such serious consequences before giving. to Dr. Wilson every opportunity of explaining away the evidence upon which so much stress had been laid. Let them extend all patience and fairness in a' case of such importance, aud give to an old and., early settler in this colony the utmost possible' latitude.

Mr. Sinclair {lien moved —".That the further consideration of this motion be adjourned until* Thursday next, and that in the meantime Dr.] Wilson be furnished'with a copy of the report mdt the resolution of this House."

Mr.- Robinson seconded the amendment'

Mr. Saunders said this amendment certainly came very late before .the Council; it would have been much better had it been introduced before the report had been adopted. As chairman of the committee he must say that more indulgence had been extended to Dr. Wilson than any gentleman had a right to expect who treated the committee in the manner he had done: Every wish he expressed had been listened to, and at his own request permission was given to Kirn to supply his own evidence in writing. His (Mi^ Saunders') objection to the amendment was, that it came very late, but he would not oppose it. The amendment was then put and carried. APPROPRIATION BILL. The Provincial Secretary moved-"That the Speaker do now leave the chair; and that the House go into committee on the Appropriation Bill, with Mr. Wells in the chair." MUSEUM AND MECHANICS' INSTITUTE, £200. Mr. Saundf.rs moved—"That this item be struck out." He said he now hoped the Council was prepared to reverse their system hitherto, of increasing the items of expenditure ;and that they would economise, so as to bring their expenditure somf.wh.at near their income ; and not place it in the power of the Executive, when they assembled next session, to say as a reason for not carrying out the important votes they had given, that the money voted far exceeded the balance in hand. As to an institution of this kind, he would much like to see it, but he felt sure they could not afford it; and while they complained of not having enough money to teach children their ABC, he. thought it would be extravagant folly to attempt shewing them a collection of moar bones and bits of stone; in fact he objected to giving people ruffles who wanted a shirt. The Provincial Secretary said he did not see that this vote should be negatived; he was not disposed to give up what the lion, member called ruffles, because people neglected to put. shirts to. their childrens' backs. These museums existed in air the other colonies, and for himself he would like to see a complete cabinet of minerals from England in such an institution, properly named and catalogued; and then when people went out among the hills, and collected any apparent mineral matters, they could easily, when they came to Nelson, compare them and see if they were valuable or not; Let them just suppose a collection of this kind to exist, accompanied by some stuffed birds, and curiosities indigenous to New Zealand, and then there would be formed a useful, entertaining, and.instructive museum, where'parties coming from the country could pass an hour or two with delight,and receive inforuia-> tion at the same time. Another strong reason for forming this: museum was, that Sir William Denison had offered to give to this colony a collection of Australian mineral and other curiosities, in exchange for any duplicates of similar things which we might possess. If this offer was acted upon, it might be the means of quickly developing the vast resources which this colony was supposed to contain; and he therefore hoped that the Council, in a true spirit of necessary liberality, would vote the sum now under consideration.

Mr. KEiiLiNd said had no doubt that all would agree with the Provincial Secretary as to the usefulness of the proposed museum ; hut what he wanted to know was, where were they to get the money from ? They had already overrated the Estimates, and he feared that, to make up the deficiency, they would have to strike out the .£6OO set down for public roads and works ; he must therefore support the amendment of Mr. Saunders, although he did so with regret. Mr. EbaN said he was gJad to see a move- j nient in this direction; he thought it praiseworthy, and also highly necessary. He believed that this colony would not suffer by comparison with any other settlement; and when the population, was perceived to be possessed of one intellectual tendency, he thought it behoved all who had the power of so doing to foster it. He looked upon the education of rising youth to be quite as necessary as public roads, which are but an item in the means of civilisation; and felt that if they wished to keep pace with the wants of an increasing population, institutions of this kind must be established. Everything of an educational character should in his opinion be directly encouraged. A museum in itself seemed a very simple thing, but let them consider beyond this ; let them imagine it to contain a collection of those minerals on which the wealth, the success—in fact, 'the very present position of the mother country rested. Let them look at it containing specimens of our mineral and geological resources; and could any one then say that it would not immediately lead to the taking of gigantic strides in the development of that hidden wealth with which this country was sp confidently predicted to abound. Let them imagine the proposed interchange of specimens with Australia ,to take place, and who could say but that some man skilled in mineralogy, looking at what we considered a simple, curious stone, would behold that which would cause unbounded wealth to accrue to this colony. It was with this consideration that he said whatever could be spared of a pecuniary kind should be devoted for such an object; the public money could not be more profitably spent; it would be a powerful means of inducing temperance, and surely temperance was.most excellent. He regarded every Mechanics' Institute as an additional bond in aid of teetotalism; he was not one of those who merely stood to water as the best test of temperance; he was for relieving the public mind by diversions of an intellectual character; such, in fact, as would be produced by a properly formed museum, or a botanical garden. Let them start either or both of these, and then the streets would be seen no longer occupied by reeling, helpless drunkards; their truly industrious population would no longer revel in the curse of drunkenness, because they would have divertisement. And setting apart all that might accrue from a better geological knowledge of the country, would it not be a great and glorious thing to hear the rising generation say, " You saved my father from drunkenness, he "has educated me, and I am here in a fair way for independence ?" Mr. Curtis said he would support the original motion, because lie could not see that we were in that state of grinding poverty depictured by Mr. JSaunders, who seemed with delight to gloat and * groan over the expenditure of every shilling; nothing seemed to him necessary save roads and bridges. Hon. gentlemen seemed very anxious to reduce ,the expenditure, but no one appeared desirous of increasing the jncojnc. Now it occurred,to him that by producing a collection of our mineral resources, our income was likely to be considerably increased, from the knowledge of what we possessed going abroad, and thereby most probably inducing parties to seek for these minerals. A gentleman now in Nelson had said that this colony possessed the richest mineral resources of any country he had seen ; therefore, he (Mr. Curtis) would Vote for the establishment of a museum, hoping that it would lead to an increased knowledge of our mineral wealth, and at the same time beameansofeducatingand amusing the population.

~ Mi. Saun'dkrs said he had no wish to gloat over the poverty of Nelson, only he could not lose sight of the fact that with the Jloo,ooo of debt we had already incurred, we were as de.eply indebted as England would be had she incurred a debt of .£400,000,000 in the same few months. Now, what would be the opinion of any country which went into debt in this way ? For himself he could not possibly see how this indebtedness was to be met, and ; therefore opposed the motion. . The Speakkk said he' thought the proposed vote was for one of those things which they were at present too poor to enjoy. He looked at the establishment of a library arid museum something in the same light as he should regard a man who, having a large farm with no road thereto, a large family unclad and uneducated, spent a large sum of money in procuring a collection of cockle-shells and butterflies. , *

„ Tlie Provincial Solicitor said Mr. Saunders was incorrect, in saying we had incurred a debt of £100,000. He must remember that £66,000 of that sum was incurred by other people. Tie quite agreed with Mr. Eban in saying they should find Borne means of keeping people from the publichbufe/ He' thought that the establilament of a>

museum was the most likely to effect that; numbers of people go to a public-house with no intention of getting tipsy, yefc they met friends there who treated them, they had to treat again in return, and thus it was that many gdt drunk.

Mr. Simmonds said lie should support the original motion. lie thought museums were highly necessary in a new country, where individuals discovered, perhaps great curiosities, kept them carefully a. little time, and then, becoming negligent, they were cither destroyed or,put on one side. He was surprised that Mr. Saunders objected to a vote so calculated to raise the stan-^ dard of human intelligence. Mr. Parkkr supported the original motion.

Mr. Sharp said had the Government presented some denned plan he..would have supported it, but they did not say what they would do with the money, whether they proposed build ing a place for a museum, or in fact, what they would do were the sum voted. He could not therefore support the original motion. ,

Mr. Kblljng said they had already outvoted their Estimates, and he did not see what would become of the other items oil the list. He feai'ed for the proposed lock-up and cemetery at Richmond, the ferry over the Wairau River, and other tilings, and thought they, should not neglect such necessary public works for a mechanics' institute and museum This country should hot compare itself with England, and ape all her institutions ; they were yet but young, and should advance stendily.. , . The Provincial Secretary having shortly replied, the amendment was put, and on division, lost. The original motion was then adopted. FIRE ENGINM. Mr. Saunders proposed—"That the sum set down for a fire engine be struck out," whereupon some discussion ensuedy.and the amendment was" on division lost. . ■ ; ; . Mr. Parker moved as an amendment —"To strike out the i>2oo, and insert £150 instead," with also the addition of the words, "for the town of Nelson, provided the inhabitants contribute an equal amount." This amendment was adopted. . Mr. Sinclair moved-—"That the, House do now resume, that the. Chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again." ■■ ■■■■§■- ■ " This motion having been adopted, the House resumed. ■.■.-'..■. DUN MOUNTAIN RAILWAY. Mr. Mackay moved—"That the Dun Mountaiii Railway Bill be printed, with the new clauses." Mr. Sinclair seconded the motion, whereupon Mr. Saunders moved as an amendment—" That the Dun Mountain Railway Bill, with the new clauses, be printed at the.Company's expense." Miv Dodson seconded the amendment, which was withdrawn, and : Mr. Sharp moved—"That Standing Order No. 37 be suspended, and that the printed copies of the original Dun Mountain Railway Bill have the amendments inserted in writing by the Company." Mr. Sinclair seconded the motion, which was adopted, and the House adjourned until Tuesday (this day), after-receiving the following notices of motion for this day :— Mr. Adams to move the third reading of the Education Amendment Bill.

Mi-. "Wells to move that the Dun Mountain Railway Company he heard hy counsel at the bar of this House, on the second reading of the Dun Mountain Railway Bill. • ■