REVISION OF THE TARIFF. Wellington, Nov. 23.

Te Aroha News, 26 November 1887, Page 4

REVISION OF THE TARIFF. Wellington, Nov. 23.

question of the revision of tho tariff was again brought prominently forward at yesterday afternoon's bitting', and the whole matter will now be reviewed. After the notice.? of questions and motions had been given, Sir Julius Yo^el asked the Premier if ho would give him an opportu" nity of moving' lesolutions relativo to a revision of tho tAiilY. It was usual to do so on tho motion for going into Committee of Ways and Means, but. he would ask the Go--ycrnmont w hether they would give him any facilities for doing to alter they had disposed of tho question for going into supply. The rtemier aw shed to know if the resolutions travel &ed the policy of the Government. Sir Julius : They propose t<> make a X)hango in the fcaiill this session. The Premier said that in ("..at case he would propose to f^o into Committee of AVays and Weans at once. Sir J nines replied that he wa« not quite froady with his resolut?<cr.i>, and would not t)e prepared (o move them I ill next week. The Pivjmier remained that in that ci«.e lie coulA ndt <j;o into any Go\ernment business till next week. The Government could not possibly do hv -i ness for a week Avith a lio-consfidencc mouon hanging over thei.i. Sir -Julius Voirol said that he would not givei'oimal notice that day, but avouUl intimate the eoiu^e he intended to pursue. It had beon that thcie Avas a trood •dral of diiheuHy in bringing down the taiiff, but the Opposition g-eneially 'did not think there was any such great ■ 'difficulty in die maitei. He eoiusideied it Was necessary (o alter tho tanil this bcs^ion, -and Dr. Fitohett had undertaken to receive communications fiom all paiN ot the country Awth respect to the necessary re-visions. (Laughter ) He should say no moic than to meu-ly announce his intentions, in Older to enabl.* the people inteiosted throughout the courtly fioin one end to the other to send throe- o nninunieation ,to Dr. Fitehett. The< Premier t^iid ho could not accent the hon. f entleman's position at- all, and he should decline absolutely to do any more <*overnmeiit bu-ine---. till the lion, crentleman'iiadhad time w inepaie his tariff, with the af&i&tance of the lion, member for Dunedin Uenti'xl. lie should pioeeed a- soon as the Speaker called for the neee^M-y papeis co mo\e the adjournment of the House. ("Oh, f.h" and ''honi. ) If mem•bers A\eie piepaied to let the countiy's 'time be wasted in tins a\ ay, the result would be that the sitting of the House would last 'till aft^i- Christinas, but if he undci stood the temper of tho House they would not submit to am ilung of that kind. He intimated that the Go\ eminent wcie unwilling to go on with the bu-ines-, of the country mule. 1 n threat of expulsion from oliico. He would eonsidor between that time and to moiiow whether it was righo that private members should have an oppoitunity of going on with their woik to-moriow and the r.evl day, but he was not pre])aied to say that the Government would be jr^tilied in undei taking any business wliateAer till the hon. member had brought down hit, legations. He would move the adjournment of the llou^c till tomorrow. (Cues of % 'Xo, no.") Sir Julius Vogel said that the position the Premier had taken up was to hi 1 - mind utteily absiud. He had huml befoio he came into the Houtc that the Go\ eminent did not want to go on A\ith Go\ eminent business tliat day or the ne\t. (Major Atkinson : *' No.") In bringing dow n ihe>e 1 evolutions he had not challenged the position of the Cc einment, and had the Government been a and independent one— Ftiong in the position of declaring its policy — they Avoukl have had his suppoit, for he did not desire office. So far trom these proposals challenging the position of theGo\ernment,he was in hopesof getting the Goveinmcnt support on them. They had meiely been made Avith a view of getting an amendment of the tariff made at the eaihe^t po-sible moment. The object of his ie -solutions wa*> not to traverse the position of the Go\ eminent, and if he r-aw a Avay to cany out a policy which he be lioved would be of benefit to the countiy, he woulddoallho could tohclptheGovernmeut, andgiAe it that f-tiength Avhich it clcaily did not possess, because of its representing so many dhided opinions The le&olutions ■were not biouccht down with a view of obstructing tho Government. On the contraiy, if Ministcis' would look at them fairly and dispassionately no one would be moie pleaded than himself and those gentle.men who supported him. TaulF revision was a main question at the elections, and Ib would not be «atistactoiy to the country If the session were to pass without a dis- • cutsion upon it.. As to the question of delay he was nofc going- to be detened from Avhat 'he considered to be his duty by a chaise of .obstruction being- raised against him. He 'knew that old dodge so avcll that it Avas .sin* ply amusing. To say that they Avere not to, have a discussion on the Customs tariff because of the length of the session, Avas -simply ridiculous, and there was no reason ■why "Parliament should not sit till after Chi isiwas if necessary. The taking of the priyAtejnembevs' day so early in the session •»vas vqvx , objectionable. It had been said 'tliatithe^efcsion must be brought to a close ijecaiise-iJie shearing season was coming on, Ibut -ha roiiiinded the Hoaise that members wore;th9ve'to represent m>en, and not sheep. •(Laughter. 1 ,) He Avould giive the Government, svery facility to go aa with the business quick V where he conoQived it ought to .be gone w with quickly, but Avould not callow apy oi>arge of obstruction to prevent Jiim from bringing down questions which the House should consider. He could not re.cancile sur-h a course to his conscience. Protection Avas & question intimately conjie«ted Avith the veil-being of the colonies at the present i^wment, and having annowjwed his intention of bringing it for^vard he trusted the Premier to recall his decision, hastily given, and alloAy other business to he proceeded Avith in the meantime. The Minister for Education said that the Premier was not likely to recall his decision, nor was it hastily given. The Government had no right to go on Avith the business of the country till the resolutions of which notice had been giA'en had been disposed of. He charged tho member for Christchurch North with haAinc, during the past week or more, done nothing else but waste the time of the House. Sir Julius Vogel : I rise to a point of order. I ask that the words " The hon. gentleman has done nothing but waste the time of the House for past week " be taken doAvn. If that is not an offensive expression, I don't know what is. On this question being put, tho motion was negatived on tho voices by an overwhelming majority. The Minister for Education prhceeded to cay that he wiahed the worst thing that hod been done during tho past week had been the waste c f the time of the House. He called attention to the fact that the taxpayers in whose interest Sir Julius Vogel claimed fco speak had to pay i'4oo for every day's sitting" of the House, and this coast was doubled by the waste of time which prevented the Government giving effect

to their retrenchment proposals. The Governmentwerequite prepared to discuss their policy bills directly the Financial Statement debate had terminated. The country would stand no more of Sir Julius Vogel s tarili experiments. What did the hon. gentleman mean by a "strong and independent Government ?'' Had ib not been demonstrated that a strong Government could be carried on without his assistance ? The Government had distinctly stated that they did not intend to tinker with the tariff, as they recognised the necessity for some settled tariff in order that tradespeople might have some certainty as to what thoir position would be. Mr Moss said that the resolutions had como before both sides of the House in the nature of a surprise. The Government were divided on the question of protection, and were temporising with it and playing with the ITou-e. He was sure the House would not want a no-confidence debate, and knew that many members had endeavoured to get this question dibcubsed on its merits apart from paity considerations. He suggested that the Government should get Imprc-t Supply, then adjourn the House till January or February next, and then resume the session w)*e>n the icviscd estimates could be brought down together with an amended tariff. " Mr Fibh denied that the wast* of timo vias attributable to the Opposition, but lather to the Government. He contended that the country had pronounced more strongly in favour of protection than ictrenehment. Mr Turnbull considered that the proposed motion was ill-advised at the present time, and did not think th?t anyone of the Opposition side of the House knew that any such pioposal was jr -ing to bo made. The first step to consoler was retrenchment, and then he Mieved it would Ibe found imperative to alter the tariff before they went home. He objected to plucking the pear before it was lipc. A motion buch as that which Sir Julius proposed to more should have been considered by the whole mity, and not by merely one 01 two memiier*, of k. Mr'Scddon accused the Coa eminent ot slinking their doty on the question. Mr Barron thought a no-confidence motion was called for, but it should be no confidence in the Opposition leader, who Mas responsible for the gieat waste of time this session. Dr. Fitchett drew attention to the inconsistent position "taken up by the Govern ment. They admitted that the rcsision of the tariff wiii necessary, and yet when the Opposition showed a disposition to help them they legaided the motion as a directly hostile one. Sir John Hall declared that he had been a protectionist when somt, of the=>e members now p>ofc=bing to bo protectionists had been aidenfc frce-hadei*-. The Opposition leader had stated that he did not want to occupy the Tica-Liy benches (laughtei), but only wished to cret an opinion on the question of protection. He (Sir J. Hall) hid that the <4o\ eminent were bound to hi at the matter in the manner in which they had, seeing that noti< c had been given by the leader of the Opposition, who spoke with an air of authonty with which no other private ntambei could s-peik. Sir Julius Vogel said that at the request of a number of his tiiends, he would ask to be allowed to with'liaw the intimation lie had made for the pi'e c ent. The Premier said the hon. member was quite mistaken if he thought he (tho Piemierl was given to accept such a withdrawal as that. He was going to have the question settled. Mr W. I*. Reeves : How ? The Premier said he was going to challenge the Opposition leader to move by a a fnend, or as a substantive motion, " That in the opinion of this House the tariff ought to be revise*! this-fccssion." No time would be wanted to consider that, nor would there be any necessity to v. ait a week till his young friend, tho member for Dunedin Central, could reooivc communications from the various Protection Societies throughout the colony. The position of firbt assistant to a Colonial Tie&surer was a very ignoble one for the hon. gentleman to be placed in. (Laughter.) He had no doubt that there would be a howl of laughter throughout the country ata tariff pi oduced in a week under such circumstances. Sir J. Vogel : There might be a laugh on the other side. Major Atkinson said he was going to give his hon. fiienda chs.nce. Not only would he give him an opportunity to move the resolution suggested, but he would al&o give him access to the public records and oiiicers of Government. He invited either Sir Julius or one of his friends to at once table a motion, " That in theopinionof this House, the revision of the teuff ought to be gone on with this session.'' That would enable them to get oa with the business, and if no such proposal were made he (the Premier) would, on th« House resuming, get one of his own supportets to move, "That in the opinion of Uiii House the work of the revision of the tariff should not be proceeded with this s-ession." (Ministerial cheers. ) Sir J. Vogel said he was not prepared to accept the challenge, but he was willing that the Government should move the resolution against the revision of tariff this session, as it would show the feeling of the House, and would assist the Opposition in deciding what was the best course to pursue in order to facilitate the business of the country. The Premier wished to move the adjournment of the House till 7.30, when Sir Julius might have an opportunity of accepting the challenge thrown out, or the Government could take steps to test the feeling of the House. The Speaker said the motion was that the House do now adjourn, which meant that it adjourn till 2.30 next day. As the Premier had replied, no amendment could be made. The motion was then put and carried by 50 to 32. The following is the division list :—

Ayes, 50. Allen . McKenzie, Clutha Anderson Marchanb Atkinson McGregor Barron Mills Beetham Mitchelson Bruce Moat Buchanan Monk Carroll Newman Cowan Ormond Dobson Peacock Fergus Pearson Fisher Pyke Fulton Rhodes G oldie Richardson, Matauva Graham . Ross Hall Russell Haralin Seymour Hislop Taiwhanga Hobbs Tanner Hodgkinson Thompson, Marsden Izavd Thompson, Auckland Jackson Valentine Lawry Whyte Macarthur Wilson Mackenzie, Mfc. Ida Withy

Noes, 32. Ballance Levestam Blake Lough rey Buxton McKenzie, Wai'mo Duncan Moss Jffeldwick O'Callaghan Fish Parata

Fitchetb Peroival Fitzherberfc Reeves, Inangahua Grimmond Reeves, St. Albans Guinness Richardson, Kaiapoi Jones Seddon Joyce Taylor Kolly Turnbull Kerr Vogel Lance Walker Larnaoh Ward

Pairs. for against. Menteath Fraser Samuel Hutchison Taipua Steward