FREEDOM CONFIRMED.

Sun (Christchurch), Volume I, Issue 229, 31 October 1914, Page 12

FREEDOM CONFIRMED.

BIBLE-IN-SCHOOLS QUESTION. HOUSE DECIDES FOR SECULAR i SYSTEM. [From our own Parliamentary Reporter.] WELLINGTON, October 30. This afternoon the House had before, it the Bible-in-Schools question, and the discussion culminated in an interesting division which is the only test during the session to put members "on side" in the much-vexed controversy. The Education Committee's report on the petition of Professor T. A. Hunter and others, and 76 similar petitions, asking that the present national system of education should be maintained, was as follows: ~ "That the committee has heard evidence on the subject matter of these peti-tions-—much latitude being allowed witnesses in the desire to get all the facts —and is of opinion that the New Zeah .id State system of free, secular, and compulsory education, under which our children have received incalculable benefits- and under which, after a 37 years' experience, our people—the immense majority of whom have passed through our schools —compare most favourably, morally, socially, and religiously to the people • of any other part of the world, should be maintained." \ * . Reporting on the petitions of the Rev. Professor W. Hewitson a.nd 89 similar, petitions, objecting to certain provisions in the Religious Instruction in Schools Referendum Bill, the committee stated:— "The committee is fully alive to the value of Biblical and religious instruction and is of opinion that full opportunity should be given for . the adoption of a voluntary system, such as that known a 6 the Nelson system, in which the teaching is imparted outside the statutory school hours, under which the State exercises no authority in religious matters, and uiider which there is. no compulsion or violation of rights of conscience. " The committee reporting on 60 petitions against the Religious Instruction in Schools Referendum Bill stated:— '' The committee is of opinion that the proposals in the Religious Instruction in Schools Referendum Bill introduced this session by the Hon. James Allen, should not be allowed to become law." MR ALLEN'S DISSENT. The Hon. James Allen said he wished to dissent from, that part of the report recommending the Nelson system. The reason was that when the matter was brought up in committee, the chairman had moved the addition to the report, which was irrelevant. That ruling was challenged by the member for Clutha, and he (Mr Allen) had in turn challenged Mr Malcolm, maintaining that he could not challenge the chairman's ruling in this way. The committee had adjourned to take Mr Speaker's ruling. The latter, however, was tuifortunately away, but during the adjournment, the member for Clutha had found he wafji in the wrong. The committee, however, had taken a vote on the chairman's ruling, which was decided to be right. In spite of this, however, the addition to the report had been made and brought to the House. He did not want to move that the report should be sent back, but he merely wished to enter. his protest against the addition to the report, and against the chairman embodying it in spite of the committee's decision. Mr G. W. Russell maintained that the addition to the report came within the scope of the committee's order of reference, and was relevant. "The thanks of the people of this country are due, said Mr Russell, "to the gentlemen who form the Education Committee for bringing in a report which so magnificently defends our free system of education. I have had fourteen children who have received their instruction in the State schools. I am proud of my family, and I say again that the thanks of the people are due to the committee for the defence of the present system.'' When he looked round those who were heading the agitation which had recently existed, he found that few of them were men whose children had gone through the State schools. Mr Buick: Outside agitators. Mr Russell: Yes, outside agitators. Mr D. H. Guthrie objected to the committee's report, because he believed that the chairman's action was wrong. Mr Statham heartily supported the committee's report. It did not narrow the proposed system to the Nelson system, but recommended some system "such as" the Nelson system. Mr J. B. Hine expressed regret that the committee had not supported the referendum on this question. He thought that the people should have been given the opportunity of voting whether they should have the Nelson system or some other system of instruction. Ultimately the people would have to settle the question themselves. Mr L. M. Isitt said that the last speaker apparently did not understand the point at issue between hundreds and thousands of people on both sides. They could not narrow down, as one side wished, to one particular system. Mr J. S. Dickson: In order to divide the House on this question, I am going to move that the report be referred back to the committee. An hon. member: Give your reasons. The Minister (aside to Mr Dickson) : I don't want a division. Mr H. Atmore twitted the Government for their timidity on the whole question. The Government 'was afraicl to give a lead to the people as to the House on this question. It looked as if the member for Parnell had moved his amendment at the instigation of the Minister of Education, so that the whole question of religious instruction could be hung up indefinitely. Mr A. H. Hindmarsh spoke against the referendum proposals, saying the men who were true democrats would not think of accentuating religious differences amongst the people by a referendum. "IT SLIPPED THROUGH." Mr G. M. Thomson, chairman of the Education Committee, said that in the hurry of getting to the House he had to admit that the addition to the report objected to by the Minister had been allowed to slip through. He hoped that the amendment to refer the report back would not be pressed, because it would merely hang the matter up further. AN INTERESTING DIVISION. When the amendment was put Mr Dickson insisted on a division being

taken. This resulted in the amendment being defeated by 46 votes to 17. The following was the division list: — Ayes, 17. Allen Massey R. F. Bollard E. Newman J. Bollard Nosworthy Buxton Olcey Dickson R- H. Rhodes Guthrie Sidey Herriea G. M. Thomson Hino Wilson Mander Noes, 46. Anderson Mac Donald Atmore Malcolm Bradney Millar Buchanan A. K. Newman Buick Ngata Clark Parata Coates Payne Colvin Pearce Craigie Poland Davey " Robertson Dickie Russell Ell Scott Escott Seddon Forbes . R. W. Smith. Fraser Statham Glover J. C. Thomsoi. Hanan Veitch Harris Ward Herd man Webb Hindmarsh Wilford Hunter Wilkinson Isitt . Witty McCallum Young The House thus really affirmed thd maintenance of the;-free,-secular system of education by almost a three to one majority.