THE SESSION.

Sun (Christchurch), Volume I, Issue 121, 27 June 1914, Page 11

THE SESSION.

LEGISLATORS AT WORK.

THE PUBLIC SERVICE,

MB HERDMAN'S DEFENCE.

[From our own Parliamentary Reporter.]

WELLINGTON, June 26,

Continuing his speech in the House of Representatives this afternoon on the motion that his Public Service Amendment Bill be read a first time, Sir Joseph Ward, Leader of the Opposition, said that in every case before the Appeal Board, the appellant should have the right to appear with a solicitor. One of the members of the Board was a very able lawyer, and appellants, with no legal knowledge, often found themselves in the position of having to argue difficult questions of law. This surely was unfair. Any member of the service should have ,the right to legal representation.

Mr E. P. Lee (Oamaru): Railways too? Sir J. G. Ward: In the interests of the legal profession, yes. Mr Lee: You never provided it. Sir J. G. Ward: There are a good many tjiings I have not been able to provide. I have not been able to provide the lion, gentleman with much judgment. Hon. F. M. B. Fisher: You hadn't any to spare. (Loud laughter.) RESPONSIBILITY OF COMMISSIONERS. Sir J. G. Ward went on to say that under the present conditions a servant in any branch, could be dismissed from his position, without any reason being given, and he denied the riglit of appeal. The Commissioners were not responsible, even to Parliament except by way of report. It was .surely the right of every servant whose case was being considered to have the opportunity of perusing all papers and reports dealing with his case. He understood that the Commissioners had been appointed for a term of five years. This announcement had never been made to Parliament, and he hoped to hear whether the statement was true. MINISTER'S REPLY. Hon. A. L. HerJman (AttorneyGeneral) said that they often heard of dissatisfaction in the Service, but on the other hand lie had information that the Service was never more satisfied and contented. The statement that the Commissioner was not. responsible to Parliament was incorrect. Parliament tomorrow could carry a resolution which would deprive the Commissioner of office. The truth was that the Opposition was antagonistic, to the system of commissioners. They had stated that they would repeal the Public Service Act.

An hon. member: They daren't.

AN IMPARTIAL TRIBUNAL

Mr Herdman continued that if the Act were repealed, Civil Servants would lose their right of appeal and all the other advantages which had eome to them under the rule of the Commissioners. When Sir Joseph Ward said that servants had no right of appeal, one must ask if he had ever read the Act. It was impossible to conceive a more fair, impartial, and upright tribunal than that which tried the cases of Civil Servants; and the Service had had to wat until the present Administration came into power before it could

get such a tribunal. It was the primary duty of the Government to see that the people of New Zealand were supplied with a good Public Service; and after that they had to look to the interests of the servants. Never before had the servants been so justly treated. In illustration of this statement he quoted many of the changes which had been made by the Act. The appeals under the old system of classification were much more numerous than they are under the Commissioner system.

Mr G. W. Kussell (Avon): I thought vou said there had been no appeal. * Hon. Mr Herdman continued that if there was any discontent in the Service it was amongst old supporters of the Opposition. < 1 CONTEMPTIBLE CLAP-TRAP.'» Sir Joseph Ward, in reply, said that

the suggestion of the Attorney-Geileral was contemptible. If what he said was true, then 97 per cent, of the Civil Servants must be supporters of the Opposition. He had risen to try to do good for a great Service, and he was met with clap-trap. He could treat such a statement only with scorn and contempt. If all the things which the Service had obtained under the Commissioners were so good, why were so many important branches kept outside the system? Why were not the railways included? The servants in the excluded branches were more numerous than those under th§ Act. The Attorney-General suggested that the Opposition was stirring up trouble, but since lie went out of office he had never visited a single department over which he had had control. The people Of the country were dissatisfied with the Act. QUESTION OF REPEAL.

The Prime Minister: Will you repeal the Act? Sir J. G. Ward: I shall amend the Act.

The Prime Minister: Will vou repeal it? Sir J. G. Ward: I should amend the Act so as to bring the Service within Ministerial and Parliamentary control. Opposition members; Hear, hear. Sii' J. G. Ward, continuing, said that lie would seek a division on some of the important proposals in his Bill, so as to see how members stood. He never imputed motives, but had the right to criticise members. NO APPEAL PROM SUPREME COURT. When the case went to the Court of i Appeal Government members: There will be no appeal. Sir J. G. Ward: How do .you know? Members: The Attorney-General said so. Hon. Mr Herdman: I said so. The Public Commissioner told me there would be no appeal. Sir J. G. Ward: Then he told you that since' I brought down my proposal. (Loud laughter.) The Bill has done some good already. An hon. members: There is no need for your Bill now. The Bill was read a first, time on the voices, and the second heading was; set down for Wednesday; n£xt. 14 OTHER BILLS. The following Bills were also read a first time—Hokonui, County Bill (Mr Anderson), Fire Inquests Bill (Mr Sidey), Railway Improved Lands Bill (Mr M'Callum). It was explained by Mr M'Callum that the last-named .was practically his Betterment Bill of last session under another name. (Laughter; and an hon. member, "No wonder you're ashamed of it.") THE CLOSURE. THE OPPOSITION ANXIOUS. THAT DISSOLUTION THREAT. Before the Imprest Supply Bill was brought down, Sir Joseph Ward asked the Prime Minister to give an immediate answer to the question lie had tabled yesterday, "Whether, seeing that the Standing Orders do not recognise that ' closure' be applied to members, he will give an assurance to the House that, in order to prevent the right of free speech being taken from the people's representatives, an amendment to the Standing Orders will be made defining the powers of the Speaker and Chair* man of Committees so as to prevent any misunderstanding in the interpretation of the same?"

Mr Massey said that he contemplated no alteration of the Standing Orders. There could be 110 misunderstanding as to their interpretation. He had no"desire to interfere with the right of free speech in the proper sense of the term. At the same time he would do all in his power to prevent the silly and stupid tactics indulged in by some hon. members last session, by which members' time and the country's money was wasted. He had never seen such silly tactics before in his life.

Mr M'Callum (Wairau): That is a reflection on the Chairman.

Sir .Joseph Ward said that the members of his Party had not been guilty of any silly action. They had made no disorderly scenes, and they obeyed the rulings of the Chairman. What they had done was to light for a great principle—that, the people of the country, without being consulted, should be robbed of the right of majority rule. The ruling on which members had been brought to silence was based on a very old precedent.

The Prime Minister: It put a stop to your stonewall®

Mr L. M. Isitt (Christchurch North) : I thought you said it was your threat of dissolution. (Loud Opposition laughter.) The Prime Minister: I shall prove that to your satisfaction when the time conies. The hon. member will be sorryhe spok-e. • The Speaker said that he did not think that he had taken any action last session which could not be borne out by the Standing Orders. (Hear, hear.) Sir Joseph Ward expressed regret • that the Prime Minister could not see his way to amend the Standing and the incident closed.