THE MAYOR AND MR. JESSOP CROSS SWORDS

Stratford Evening Post, Volume II, Issue 356, 13 September 1933, Page 6

THE MAYOR AND MR. JESSOP CROSS SWORDS

■— “Locnl Unemployed Paid a Mere Pittance Money

Given Away on Building Subsidy” SOME TENSE MOMENTS AT MEETING YESTERDAY AS briefly report in the Post last night, a tense scene occurred yesterday when Mr. J. S. Jessop, deputy chairman of the Unemployment Board visited Stratford and met His Worship the Mayor and members of the Stratford Unemployment Committee yesterday. Mr T. R. Anderson, chairman of the committee, presided. The meeting was proceeding in the way of most such gatherings until the time came or M McMillan to speak when he referred to the “pittance- wr..c.n thi unemployed were receiving in Stratford. Mr McMillan was not satisfied with the administration of the fund, and said so, alleging that the salaries and allowances paid were too high. Mr. Jessop resented Mr. McMillan’s remarks, but the latter kept on and expressed his views on the subject.

The mayor first of all referred to the communication recently sent by the Borough Council to the Board, and the reply received thereto which he considered unsatisfactory. He pointed out that he had figures in his possession showing the amount paid out, and these showed that a married man and his dependants received about Bd. a day each. Was; that considered sufficient? he asked. The country districts should be better treated more especially as high salaries were being paid for administration, and Board members were well paid and received good travelling allowances.

Mr Jessop objected to the Mayor’s statement and said the Board members were not overpaid. It was unfortunate that a man holding the position of Mayor of the town should make such statements. Mr McMillan: We have always had the utmost difficulty in getting any information in regard to the cost of administering the fund. Wo have repeatedly asked but we can get no satisfaction.

Mr Jessop said that all information was published in the annual report to Parliament: It would not be advisable to give all details to all and sundry. The Mayor contended that such information should be. made public. He went on to speak of the ueccessity of increasing the allocation for the unemployed who were receiving nothing more than a pittance. It was scandalous to expect people to live on 8d a day. Mr Jessop: The Country could not stand further taxation for this purpose. Mr McMillan: Yet you arc able to give money away for building subsidy. . . Mr Jessop; Wo are not giving it away. The building trade was dead and we had to do something to get the tradesmen back into regular employment. The greater percentage goes on labour and the men are paid award pay. Mr McMillan asked, Mr Jessop if be thought that 8d a day was sufficient for each dependant . Mr Jessop. I disagree with your figures. Where did you get them? Mr McMillan; I am quoting from figures supplied to me by the secretary of the local unemployed committee. It is not sufficient for any ona to live on and I ca not help getting annoyed when I think of the pittance beingpaid and on the other hand think of the money being paid out on this building scheme to people who do not need it in many cases. In any case you had to give the building scheme up. ' Mr Jessop: No we found it necessary to check up on ihe matter in order to see what the ultimate; effect would be.

Mr McMillan; But you had to give it up. You' were forced to check up on it. Mr Jessop again disagreed with Mr McMillan’s criticism saying that’ the people of New Zealand would disagree with it also. Mr. McMillan. Well it is not much use arguing with you you will not keep in the point. Mr Jessop: You have no right to make statements which you cailnot substantiate. Mr. McMillan; I can substantiate every statement I have made. Mr Jessop; Seven thousand tradesmen have been given work as the resutl of the No 10 building scheme, which has also stimulated the allied trades of the industry. The Mayor: Yes, at the expense ot the other unemployed. The Minister of Employment says that the registrations of unemployed have fallenonly a little. Most of the buildings would have been errected had the subsidy not been available. “Wlell why is it,” Mr Jessop retorted, “that men who were walking the streets are now employed?” The Mayor: You should consider the men who are on less the 8d a day. Mr Jessop: What would you 1 give them?

The Mayor: Work. Mr Jessop: You and Mr Anderson said a few minutes ago that your local bodies do not want the men, yet when the board tried to get them back into the ordinary trade you say the board is giving money away. “If you give money to people to build you are giving it away; such people are receiving a gift, ’ tlio Mayor argued. The Mayor was wrong, Mr Jessop said, as the board was subsidising building so that men would get full time work. Before the scheme was available the building trade was practically dead. In any case the greater part of the money went towards the men’s wages. ‘ . The Mayor; If I build a house worth £IOOO and get £SO in subsidy is that not a gift? Mr Jessop; But you would not have built that house without the subsidy. “Your board seems to favour birth control,” the Mayor went on. “No more is paid to the man with say five children than to the one with three The amount paid to married men was adjustable by local and a married man could receive up to £2 10s said Mr Jessop.

Farmers’ Scheme a Success Mr. H. A, Hunt slated that in his opinion the schemes relating to the farmers had been successful and had not been abused. Referring to the building subsidy, he said that he would like to know the number of people actually taken off the unemployed register as a result. There had been abuses, he Avas sure, and he thought that many of the buildings would have

gone up in any case. There were people he knew —wealthy people in some cases with money out at interest —who had received the subsidy. Referring to the employment of labour; Mr Hunt said there were many cases in which local unemployed tradesmen did not get a chance, and it should be a condition that where there were unemployed tradesmen in a town where a subsidised building was to be erected, as many as possible should be given work on the building in question. He was aware of nstances where tradesmen from other towns had been brought in. Mr Jessop then spoke of the value of the building subsidy even indirectly and quoted an instance where in one centre 20 or 30 men bad gone off the unemployed register because work was available for them in sawmills. The response to the subsidy had been so great that the Board thought it necessary to check it. As a matter of fact, during the course of the subsidy, there had been more building operations carried out than during the biggest building boom that had ever taken place previously. They wanted to see the effect of that on future operations. Mr Hunt: We may have to face a reaction. 1

Mr Jessop: I don’t think so. There has not been much building going on in the past. 11 ; Charitable Aid

Mr W. L. Kennedy, chairman of the Stratford Hospital Board, put forward the position of Hospital and Charitable Aid Boards. They had received instructions from the Health Department that they were not to give assistance to any but Class C men, i.e., men totally unfitted for the usual work offering. But they were not able to remain within the letter of the regulation in that respect. He quoted a case n Tangarakau where there were six men with families who were out of work and were totally dependent upon charity. The Board was not supposed to do anything in a matter of that kind, but (be men and their wives and families could not, ])e allowed to starve. The men hud made application for work and various promises had been made to them, but they were still unemployed. Could not some work be found for them?

Mr T. R.Anderson pointed out that there seemed to be no reason why they could not register and get work from the Wliangamomona County Council.

In answer to Mr Jessop, the certifying officer, Mr D. McCready, said that perhaps the men wanted camp work again.

Mr Kennedy expressed his willingness to send copies of the correspondence in connection with the matter to the Unemployment Board in Wellington, and Mr Jessop said that he would be pleased to go into the whole case.

The next matter brought up was the case of two married men who had been working in a co-operative camp, but who bad been forced to return to Stratford that morning because they could not earn sufficient to maintain their families. They had to reregister on the unemployed, but according to the regulations they would have to be stood down for a fortnight.

Mr. S. Spence, who explained the case, asked that the regulations he waived in order that they might be given work at once.

Mr Jessop: The minimum in such camps is supposed to be £3 a week. Where did they come from?

Mr. Spence: Carrington Road —the other side of New Plymouth. Mr Jessop: You can get a report from the Public Works Engineer, and if you find that the wages they were earning were low you can use your discretion. Over the Fence Scheme Mr. P. Skoglund referred to the “over the fence” scheme, of which he said a number of farmers were taking advantage, tie thought that if the scheme were abolished altogether it would have the effect of getting a number of men off the unemployed register, because the farmers would have to employ labour in any case, and the result would be that the money now used to subsidise their wages would bo available for the assistance of the unemployed who remained. Farmers were compelled to have labour at this time of the year, and he thought they would engage the men without the subsidy.

Mr Jessop: But what are you going to do with the oilier unemployed. The County Council say that they do not want unemployed men and the Borough likewise. Where are you going to find work for them?

Mr Anderson; The Borough and County Councils would prefer to have regular men and not the unemployed at all if the unemployed were absorbed elsewhere. That is the position.

Mr Jessop; Under the scheme in question we give a man two days work and the farmer lias to give him another two days. That makes four days in all. If we take the subsidy away, will the farmer be able to provide the four days himself?—l am doubtful.

Mr T. R. Anderson, speaking as a farmer, said that he was of opinion that help under this scheme should not be given to farmers. As long as farmers were given men for nothing they would take them and

use them. If there were no subsidy the farmers would have to take the men and pay them some wages. Mr Jessop: Yes, some wages, but what wages! lam thinking of the man.

Mr Anderson stated that if every farmer’s subsidy were cut out at once the farmers would have to engage the men and pay them. The poor farmer was not getting the benefit, but the man in good circumstances was because the poor farmer could not afford to pay for labour even with the assistance of the subsidy. In seeking to absorb the unemployed, they must look ahead. The Board did that with the building subsidy and on the working of this Mr Anderson wished to extend his congratulations to Mr Jessop and the other members of the Board.

Mr H. A. Hunt honed that the Government would not cut out the “over the fence scheme” without making full inquiry. The assistance was of immense benefit to farmers who were up against it, and without it they would not be able to pay for any labour at all. If the scheme were stopped it would flood the towns with more unemployed. As it was there Avere a number of people living in small villages such as Midhirst Avho were able to get along because they bad a house and a bit of land Avith the assistance they got from the farmers round about by working under this scheme.

Mr Jessop said that he Avas thinking of the men. If the men were not getting the benefit the scheme would be cut out at once. I Avould like to believe, lie said, that we could get along without this and that the fanners Avould be able to employ the men as at present Avithout the aid of the subsidy, but it must be remembered that there is not a great deal of development Avork being done on farms at the present time. Mr Anderson reiterated his opinion that the best Avay out of the difficulty Avould be to put all the unemployed men under the Public Wlorks De;partment. There Avould only be a little difficulty encountered, and that Avould disappear after the first three months. There was very much necessary Avork that required doing. In the Taranaki area alcne there were 600 miles of 6ft. tracks, and the making of these into roads would constitute a valuable national asset. The meeting closed Avith a vote of thanks to Mr. Jessop, who expressed his appreciation to those avlio had come along to discuss matters Avith him.