ONLY TWO ISSUES

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume LIII, Issue 16492, 9 November 1927, Page 7

ONLY TWO ISSUES

NEW LICENSING BILL BUT 55-45 MAJORITY PRIME MINISTER’S ATTITUDE “MERELY POINTS AND LEADS” i (Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, last night. •‘.I will give you the leading features,” said the Prime Minister to a. highly expectant House when the Licensing Bill ■was introduced by Governor’s Message yesterday afternoon and questions as to its contents came rapidly across the floor. The Bill, said Mr. Coates, contained many of the amendments proposed in last year’s Bill, “also points and leaders for the House.” It made provision for the period between polls, and gave the House an opportunity ol considering whether a poll should take place every three years or on alternate general election dates. Mr. J. McCombs: It is m the Hill V Mr. Coates: It gives that alternative. 'The next point was a direction to licensing committees, in the event ot an extension or a renewal that they should take into account the necessary accommodation for the locality before granting a license. It gave committees ( 'more power in dealing with licenses, i -.and also made provision for a- two- ; i'issue ballot paper, cutting out the y&tate Control issue. J Mr. P. Eraser: On a bare majority vote? | Mr. Coates: No, a 55—45 vote. Mr. W. D. Lysnar: Nothing to counteract that? (Laughter). Mr. Coates: The hon. gentleman will find this Bill interesting and constructive. I

Mr. Eraser: And pretty strong drink. Mr. Lysnar: Not very interesting, that bit. (Laughter). EARLY NCLICENSL PROTEST

This discussion had taken place in committee, which gave opportunity for j 10-minutes comment on the situation. ' ( Mr. J. McCombs at once entered a protest from the no-license view-point. He suggested that the Bill was not a substantial effort. It might be conveniently dropped. The 1 New'Zealand Alliance* was not asking for flavors or privileges, but simply justice and equality of voting. It therefore asked for the removal of the present handicap. He knew that the trado was hoping to get at least the retention of the present law, which was an equivalent to them of at least 40,000 votes. Mr. T. M. Wifiord: Not at all. , Mr. McCombs said he would explain fiis point. The present law was ahandicap of 40,000 votes for those who wished to see reform, because the State Control issue was counted as though it were a Continuance vbte, although a proportion of those voters, if given an opportunity as in Queensland, would cast their second preference for the pro- j hibition issue. : I Mr. Wilford: I do not believe it. ! Mr. McCombs answered that 38 per cent, of them in Queensland did so on the first occasion of the exercise of the preferential vote, and the next time 43 per cent. He quoted the State Control voting in New Zealand, pointing out that on the Jast occasion 56,043 V voted State Control. Assuming that Venly 35 per cent, would otherwise have : '’rVoteff for no license then the middle j tissue meant a handicap 39,200 votes, !but with the voting handicap proposed by the Bill it meant a handicap of 67,b'M. Mr. Lysnar: Do you know what is in the Bill ? t , Mr. McCotmbs: The Prime Minister has indicated that the issue has to be carried by 55 per cent. . Mr, Lysnar: That’s 'all right. ’ [ Mr. McCombs declaimed with great vehemence against the licensing issue being the only one which was not allowed to he decided on a bare majority, and he was asked by Mr. Lysnar whether he had a majority. I “Two judges of the Supreme Court are absolutely satisfied f had a majority retorted the member for Lyttelton. Mr. Lysnar: You just squeaked home. (Laughter). STATE CONTROL VIEW POINT 1 A protest against the proposed elimination of the State Control issue was voiced by Mr. T. M. Wilford, who said he was against prohibition, and would not vote for it as an alternative.. Why should his right'to vote for State Control be taken away? He had a kind of hazy idea that there was some agreement entered into that there were to lie three issues on the ballot paper, and that, if so, it would be decided on a hare majority, but that ii three issues were not included would that agreement hold? ' | Sir Apirana Ngata asked the Govern- 1 ment to consider giving to 20.CC0 Maori electors a vote on the national licensing issue. He recognised that owing to the peculiar nature of the Maori representation in the House it had been considered inadvisable in the past to give the Maori a vote oi\ the licensing question, hut that objection was not valid when a poll ceased to be a local one. A private member could not move for such a provision ns it would be held to be an M appropriation, but he hoped the oppoi’>®j|ijjuty would be provided, and he’ could assure the House that the Maori representatives were in agreement on the matter. The poll was usually taken the day before the European election, but ;• as had happened in the case of a local poll in his own district the result cokltl be held hack for inclusion in the Euro- j pean figures, if there was any fear the tail would wag the European dog • bv 20,000 Maoris influencing 600,000 . European electors. : Mr. W. J. Jordan expressed great dis- ! satisfaction at. the fact that the Bill did not contain a transferable vote clause so that a man voting .State Control, therebV. exercising his hobby vote, couhl show how he wanted his effective vote cast.

QUESTION ABOUT CAUCUS

The Leader of I lie Nationalist Party, Mr. G. W. Forbes, asked whether this Bill had been passed by the Government caucus. Something should be done to make hotelkeepers improve their houses, especially those in country districts.' Of course, with the three-years’ tenure, it was difficult to get licensees to make improvements. Something might be done to protect a man who built a new hotel on modern lines. Did the Government intend that- this Bill should reach the Statute Book? If not, would the Prime Minister say so, since members did not wish to indulge in a shani' tight, at this stage of a very long session. On behalf of the people of the King Country, Mr. R. W. Smith and Mr. J. C. Rolloston expressed regret that there was no provision for the taking of a poll on the local license question in that area. This had been a burning question in the King Country for many years, and there had been innumerable petitions on tire point. It was to be hoped that when the Bill went before a Select Committee the King Country folk would have an opportunity of giving evidence. “ I have yet to learn that it is democratic to deprive 5(1,000 electors of the right to vote on a certain issue,” said Mr. 11. Atmore. It was absurd to say that a man who voted State Control voted for the prohibition of liquor. Mr. Atmore did not. think the Government, was serious in its intentions for bringing forward this Bill. Tt was merely fishing. The Minister of External Affairs, the Hon. \V. Nosworthy: Tt might hook you. Mr. Atmore: It might. The lion. Minister himself will have to do some hooking, for lie lias lost his constituency, •Mr. Nosworthy; Don’t you worry about me. Mr. Atmore: I’m not worrying. The lion. Minister is destined for another place. Mr. Nosworthy: I might land in Nelson yet. Mr. Atmore: You would soon be deported. They would give you* some of your own medicine there. The Government was incapable of giving a lead, added Mr. Atmore. It was merely trying to count the heads in the House, and had no idea where the majority was. PREMIER. ANSWERS QUESTIONS Tlie Prime Minister read to the House his prepared statement of the Bill’s main provisions, and then went on to answer what he termed the perfectly friendly criticisms, and the questions which had been submitted to him by members. As for the suggestion that the Bill was a subterfuge and not intended seriously he would reply that members could stay till Christmas or Now Year, providing they could get the question threshed out and secure a satisfactory solution. In no sense was it a Government measure. It had not been before a caucus. “Neither have I eonsuited mv colleagues on the details of the Bill. I f city it was impossible to consult anyone. It was for someone to bring down a. Bill which, in his own judgment, gave definite leads and (opinions, and it is for us to consider these opinions.” As for the suggestion of the member for Nelson that the Government was not in agreement, probably that member would now find it hard to get his party together. Mr. Atmore: You will be that way soon.

The Prime Minister: Wo never know what is ahead. lam not going to boast about what is going to happen, but I will try my hardest to keep the Hag flying.( Hear, hear). As for 'the Maori vote, this was a question he would be glad to consider, and he took it that there would be many amendments to the' Bill. He knew of some, which affected no-license areas whiclr had been merged into license areas. Members had been talking to him on that subject, but lie personally could not sec his way to include an issue of that kind in the Bill. KING COUNTRY LIQUOR No doubt, continued the Prime Minister, members would want to tfcst the issue in respect to Rohe Potae. There again similar arguments could be used. His difficulty was that it was said that a certain agreement had been arrived at between certain persons, “though I can find no confirmatory evidence. n Mr. Lysnar: All a myth.

The Prime Minister: I do not know that it can be disposed of so easily. My chief concern is not to introduce an amendment of any kind which is likely to interfere with what might have been, I do not say it was, a contract between the Maori and the palceha at that time. No doubt an amendment will be prepared; and the House will be given an opportunity of considering any such amendment. That is as far as 1 can go in the meantime. lam not going to enter into any controversy with members regarding majority and other issues. The Bill does give definite headings and a definite lead in order that Parliament may have an opportunity of discussing' this most important question.”

FULFILMENT OF PLEDGE Following is tlie full text of the Premier’s prepared statement when introducing the Bill: “This Bil). which has just, been introduced by Governor-General’s message represents the fulfilment of an undertaking given by me to the House, as well as to many delegations which have waited upon me from time to time, that opportunity would be given in this Parliament for consideration of the licensing question. “As is well-known, the licensing question is one which has always been treated as a matter outside ordinary party politics, that is to say, members of Parliament have always had a free hail'd in recording their opinions and convictions in regard to any licensing legislation which may conic before the House. There is no intention whatever of departing from its custom in tlio present instance, and as far as members on the Government side of the House are concerned they are quite unfettered by any party ties in their consideration of the proposals which are submitted in this measure.

STABLE MAJORITY NEEDED. “In making this statement, 1 would like to refer to my own personal position in regard to certain views expressed by me at the last general election. I then staled that 1 was in favor of the three issue ' ballot paper. The Bill now before the House eliminates the third issue, that is the State Control issue. Careful consideration and examination of figures recorded' for what is known as the. third issue, namely, State Control, have led me to the conclusion that its existence can hardly be justified. At the same time, to ensure that n drastic change such as the carrying of national prohibition would involve, should have a stable majority in its favor, the. Bill provides for not less than 55 per cent.

of the total votes recorded at the licensing poll as being necessary to carry national prohibition. It is also advisable that if prohibition is carried, it should not be reverted to except by a stable majority. “The elimination of the third issue in the ballot paper, the. institution of 55 per cent, majority, and the substitution of licensing (tolls at every alternate general election in place of tlie present triennial polls, are among the, chief I features of the provisions of the Bill. “As members will recollect, the Bill I wits submitted to the House last year, but 1 cannot say that its reception ■ generally was encouraging. On the con- ' tvary, 'its proposals seemed to 'bo unI wanted, and the present proposals are submitted in the belief that they are i worthy of very careful consideration by > Parliament.” .