THE RIVAL PORTS.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XLI, Issue 13297, 5 February 1914, Page 4

THE RIVAL PORTS.

*m ■ THE3 CASI3 FOR PORT OF LONJDCX - -AUTCHq^ITIES. AN ANIMATED DISCUSSION. ThjeEse'/M'as a, large and representative cvoW'd ' at 'the Church of ' England; parish „ haU-last : " night, "When Mr .f :,'&?' EstilL • representative of : the Port . of « Lo'hdo'n Aoithority, delivered a,, lecture oil 'the conditions, tliat •obtain at;Hho j Port*- of Londdii -f otr tlie. handling of prpdu,ce. •He gave a w ; vigorous reply 'to criticising ayd when tho " questioning^ was on*' tlie' proceedings became animated. Mi* J. W. Brighfe, ; President of the Chamber of Commerce, was m. the chair. The toh'ainnlul saic^he 'had' been requested to' preside at "tfee"' 1 meeting by virtue." "pf'- his position as president o"f the Gislnirno Chaniber of Commerce. He had'-'pleasui-e m in.Jji'pducing to them Mr Esttji; who "had." journeyed' from i^oiidon f.o-addreas the public ot Zealand ori; a quektidh whidH' slidiilQ- 'be of value, to most of them, namely the handUn^ of colonial products m the Enghs'h- markets. He w^s sure they wouild accord him iviiat Gisboriie audiences always 'aoeorded A tf^afcw, » patient and impartial hearing, and it would b£ his duty to see. that . that yeas accorded their visitor. Tliey k.W>y Mx Lysnai* ' liad championed, the l^st of England ports " tor ' sbnie. ' consider abl^ time tliroughbut the. Dominion, aiicl lie (the Chainxian) was. pleased, to say that arrangements had niade, whjereby they : -vrpu'ld haye m. a proper manigier; the two "sides of the subject "lir^sehted td them. The programme, which He Avbula strictly enforce, wa^ ; that Mr .Estill would address, the" meeting, -J^r an,- lioiiit^ 10 ihiiiutes would then be aUpyed toy questions'; 'M? LyshaY 'would "tn'6)i' liavef naitan nonr to address thp'me^ting, aiid : Mr Etetm TrouJd hays tlfo- righ^ to -reniy for 15^ mj^t^; after that Mr L^y^nar. woula show- * his pictures/ "KW Chauv niari asked the audience' to i-efrairx fipn interruptions m order* tliat the' programme might . be . carried but. $t/-> was essentially Mr Estill's meeting, and he.: %vas entitled to. the major . cprjtipn of the time." JN^r* Bright then, -calied on Mr Estill.' '■ ' """" . Tlie visitor, who was warmly applauded on rising to speak, said'he' had hoped to haye given a lantern lecture iflescriptivejpf the "@jfat pqrjt :. of . London, ti'acing its advance froni'V^e, eai-ly" days yp, to its pf'eJ*rit 'important' position! However, that Kad been expiained " by' the Cliairman. ' ' ' - * PQPT OF Lp^p-QX-Mr ' Estjlji then proccededi to a^clfeisa the meeting oh the' lines of hii previous addresses, as "" fniblulied 1 in' bur last issue. In explaining whajt the iftiv\> of London Authority' ivsis, he" said it* came into existence four yearg ajjp ; and was now making ytr^nujpiiis not only tb bring the jkirt up to date, but to provide very largely for' the future. To give spnie idea of . the clocks of London, the yrater area was 746 acres, t"he>*e were 45, niiles of qiiays, and there was warehouse acommPdatidu for '1^500,0^0 tons of goods, and he believed accommodation for double that quantity of goodsj i,n the port. Be siniply mentioned that, so that they could consider it ■when asked to compare London w,ith other ports 'by peoplfe*', wild ; were%tiiVing to/ge't'hold of their 'traide. Ijjlnvoys had been' sent oiit' witft a view' to bdbm-' ing th.eir par.tic'u!ar ports. .' He ' Had no fault tb fnid, with that, "b.uit Syhat I- do objedt ~tb t " lie said, "is" for a nxan tp come io 11s as a critic and'go bae(j."qncl start another coh)t>anv." /'"' '" :'■ Mr FMill. continuing; claimed that London, being the greatest, jvprt m the world, was, tji£ be^t njark|et for produce of every descriphon. "' If the West Coast- ports were such Eldorado.", how was it that the merchants' of" TSnglatid had not discovered it before? The comm^-ciai men of. Loridoji^ yverQ}' no fools," and ' yet they we're iiot making use, to any great extent,' of these out ports. " Why? Simply ; T>eca'.use! ! of the limited nxaticet. /"You are'ask-ad'to'seno! your gpods to. the,sp pol^.s," he,,- said. "You take, all the risks, and other people get put of it." Thfey I}ris ijp ."f^ulb ; to find with healthy rivalry between ports, but what they did object '\td\ >\li s t)iat misstatements s^bmd 'be 'iiia,de tiy aiegrinders. Mr J. 0. Field,':' Notiue-grinders. Tho Ch^ditth":' Qrcl^v'/ pfejiss. Mr TSatilli': I repeat axe-^grihdeis. Mr Fi«ld : It is an, improper word to use. ' "' " : '' " ' Mr E&till : I r^pefit "axe-grinders." , A voice : You are 'an axe-griiipl'er. The ■' Oiiainnan.' .called, for 'order, declaring that he would leave the chair unless "order, was maintained. : ' Mr' Estill • 1 repeat the wbyd, and do not withdraw-- it; '"'''■'-'■''" ■■*"•-'_'■■' '■>;: The speaker then referred" to a statement that produce \yas allowed remain outside ' with no cover, excepting tarpaulins. V ' A voice": Qcute right. *" " 'Mi* Estill went on to say that. a. grent deal q?' \h« colbnial produce' £ wks ioughC outright before. it. i«ft t.he4sholbs of New Zeakndj and he ask-ejd- il> it was-veasdn-able tb 1 tnai'^tlie 'people, wihp owned" the "sttuff, aiid' wnbse ( vev#" bread and butter depended uipoh ! ih© eohdi- v tion of their goods, would .'tolerate such a state of things as had been alleged, wag m existence. ';<^nild| thi' Ufaui:ahce companies, fpr ' instance, .stand it for a moment? Dealing- with tne. guestidn ot. accommodation. ' Mr "Estill said the Authority's present col^'itorajffp accommodatiolh was equivalent \o SzO^OOO'carcaseß of mutton, khd 'tliey Cotild at tjhe present tjiile deal with , the XeV'Zealand business if if, given to "them;. After'; explaininfif tjj c s.YstenT|. by meat •' a^id produce "Will B.e drscharg^d. from 'the" ■"stearners' 'by electric eleyatbrs, which are provided for in ' the'scheme now i;nder construction,- 1 the speaker said the Por^' of London Authority, practically barged no meat, certainly. no.V pjie. per cent. Regarding the' alleged lo^§ through breakages>: he ' said Ke had a statement showing that> the claim on a consignment of 602 carcases mutton amounted to 3s 2d. also; l^d «I letter from a Xew Zealander. representing a company m Londo^i, s^atiiig £h\at. t|i§ examples given Jn' supporrbf the Bristol company were greatly exaggerated, and stated m rebuttal : t'hat" the 'number 'of carcass during-* 1910 <: and '.'l9ll which suffered m • price bwjng t«» "•" dairi^ge amounted to a fraction under l'-'pef cent. ' lhe speaker, said, j^ \ypuld aisy remind - lii's critics that "the "meat liad, to be got into the stean*ierß''as well as biltV and it was re.<onable td suppose tlwit if damage, was. # . done ; ' ' ij, . would be done equally as ; v well when patting 1 it m a» wlien getting it out. (Hear, hear, and applause.) v •■ '" V'" "In- fact^}- jirentlenmn. I hali one 'of; your own townsmen/ around^ tlie docks, of L^iiddn , 'iiaf . .s■£. nioHtbs. before v> I came ;bt/t ! to' '4u'stralia/ and, we wore watching' ai'' l -?Ne'w-' Zealand, steamer dis-' cliarSnug 1 ' Sote?!r?df..y9ur/lnu|toii, this liWe" to'^ see tne 1 lialcases. to;ou'ght ouV of,' that pile, pointing to a-jVar^L ot> foiu I .' '.■T-hr<3evout:'of, <h« fouOw.«ji{i, tound to' ha™ broken shanks. ' I.dp thiiikj" added the speaker, "thaC'criti'-s, "b>fpre: '.'thjzy-, cortie to^ Tvond&jti »lu>U ld take' '- a; littte - 'ot ; tHjs 'beam^ out of theiy, jowti ;'eye.' • •••.-■* ' v They...h^d ; had iitid«r c«nsidei ¥ atioh-lol' a considehtble time the. handling «f Xew Zealand niea.jt.ijn^^ \ssf:)\f!l}b uianner than 'had hitherta 'J>een m vogue.' And the Lojidon Vutf, w»re - UP»' spending' £4oo,ooo <on'a. y: new; scheme. m oivJer 'to handle Aoistralasian v piroduoa better,' • .-. " ", '.»;"'' V'; 1 ;-' ' : ' '. ''' Mr T. Uyrne :. Whd< was the cause of it?- '.■ ...- - ; ■ . ... -■ ' : .. . 'Mr/EstiU': You Vill liave an opportunity ta put queatiojjs to me later, if youi -dpn t inihd coiitrojiing. yourself. (Applause,:) ' ' . ■''"' ' '""-.. "Biif^'as ypv haVe aske4 "le .tlit- I^% tipn,. t t^ill Hell' yOiif 1 Tho^p^dirile A^hq' broqcljt : this* about 'Wefe* c '^li«r'"jfw*jH> • im- ; P9r|,«rf of Lpndon; w^- h>(* t^^- matter ; under cQnpide^tion ever &xj,c6 \he P,prt %$■ • > L6wdort'' w 4ut7f6nty- c^jjje * into; existeiJ v «e^Hearr l^f.y^iind w *f»t tHe rain ' whom j'oti; s^nt',^ aftd Z&k 1«M all i< tho . talk and' made all the noise. (Applause.) That .critic would have you to j believe that he has-been, the " means of bringing • th« ■ great • Port of London to- its'-knecs. Let me tell you, gentlolnen, that no siit'h thing has occurred. Th© yery f^cl-of. ■■th^.t man comjpg put the deck back J8 months or two years, V it had not bt?n for that m^n or His

satellite, m London we would have had that"' scheme iii^operation \io-day.'' '. H was a. question •• where '- it sHould be, : ex plained .Mr '■ Eitill, •> and it i was agree<i that ; it should ■ be on 'a site m it , centra position 'where < til© ''large stores i were, andjthey felt tliey. should consider those importers .who '.were giving •; tile '*Auth 1 ority.? 90 per. cent of - 'their business. '> , ■ -i'Eijtplaining 'the scheme from a chart ■ >jt,r *EtetiU; said , it could,, if necessary, \b( \- extended* the whole, length' of the dock ■" 'Itr.W{is':beiiTg built witliA tliat ■ object ir v. view. "Tivo -Ships Mould be 'able to dis !. charge simultaiieously. \.Wit-K ,-the com I pletion of the new scheme the Port o London Authority. wouil,d have accom modation for 1,350,000 carcases. Ai ■ Stiiithfield there was private storage foi 156,000. carcases. The Authority "hac on© that would hold 90,000 aiid," atiothei ; to 'hold 80,000. In the. port itself thcr* '■ \vas accom modfttion for over. 3,0QQ,00( carcases, and when the, new stoics' wen : up .there Mould be room .for 4,000;,00( cafcas.ej>. ... "London is the word's market, whew pui-chasers are always to be foimd," re marked Mv Estill. Of cou'rso you ma^ not always get the price that you wen looking for. but this is inevitable,' ai you iznoTr that if} gorernedj by, the, lav of supply aii d, demand. The speaker went' on to refer t< , London as the best ; distributing* centre tjherij being jiine trunk railway line! radiatijixg frpin, London „ m difiVreni directions. He alp relerre.d. <to figures already published) slid wing that ' th< charges of the Port ot London Authoritj \yero cheaper than those of West Goasi ports., . . • , , Kegaijding wool Mr Estill said thej hail' adcoinnfodatioh if or $& acres of woo. . aiid 8 acres', of*, stiow fldbV!s>" all lighted ujp; with. top lights. "O)ur accommoda tidn for dealing* \yith wool/ lie de •clared, "is. second to. none anywhere. :I want to tell; you," said the speakei m! concjus^pn, 'Hhsit tlijg Port of London. Autlioiity was once under divided control. It is now composed of payer* dl dues, who get" ho remti.neratibn,-''and arc elected by' their fellow payers oi dues,. It is cpfnposed. .of real. Jive ..'men j |.who. inte,nd> malting tljo. .port ,go. Tlieii piWrahj'tffe "' is v to , spen,d £14jOpp,O06j and''cdnt¥acts'fßr £5J000,000' liave alreadybeeSi ■ signed. - Lohdoh is"' the majrljet of the wprjd. It has 8,000,000 people, within, 3,0, nules. W/e have dojuble that number, within 100 miles, an.c( \ye m']usfc"be fed from somewhere. It is ; all 1 very.' well ' for minor' ports ''to "bid" for tijadpj build docks, ahd '• believ.e them marjeets, but. markets,, are made ojf, men , — not bf buildings^" (Applause.) sßr : Estiiy was prbceeaiihgj to. start his iantern'Tiews, wh'eh.Miv W. D. Lysnar, ! referring to the visitor's sketch, asked if the. new store, was beyond, the railway^and -the road. Mr EstilL replied that it was, but explained that the " ctiaf t " was ." drawn siiriply ..to. show how the thing . %yas Avorked , and not drawn to scale or to show exactly whei|'e i^' would be. In any case' he 1 did ; riol see that the question had- anything to do \yitti the matter. ' - ' St /• .• v ■ ia ' •■ : *- Mr Lvsnar : As long^ as you admit it is pn the other side df the- road, I ' am satisfied. . . ' ' Vie;\vs of, the Authority's docks were \ shown on. the screen, and explained by tho, visitor. " Early m the series a photograph showing a cold;. store and insulated* vans loaqed for Sniitlifield was thrown on the, sheet. . Mr W r . D; Lysnai:: That is the Argenjtine store, is it not? . Jjfr. Estill-: That is the Argentine store. ■(Applause.) ' Mr Estill explamod, that ho did not have a' pho'tograpli 'of! the- other stores, but' they 'w^reV* exactly tlfc .same. •Mr F. J..;* JLysnar f.' vShdw :us where Xew Zea.landScrp.ducc. is discharged at the , Victoria doclis, 'Mr Lstiil : I have sjipwn Victoria, 1 docks. '*"■ ■ <•■■'■ j, Mr. F. J* Lysnar : Yes, but you-: didn't show how the meat was discharged. Shortly afct.er\ya.r.ds another stpr,e was 1 scre,ehe«l, and M'r'W. D. Lysnar remarked," "Another Argentine store !*' , A voice : Hear," heaV, My' L'^nar. Mr F. J- Lysnar was interject! jig with ; .he request tjhalj ..New Zealand produce should be shown when Mr Estill: requested him to hold his tongue. (Laughter.) Mr TV Byrne: Show us . Jfew Zealand meia,t; '''■ ' '". '" .-"•■■ '" l ' '. M^r, Estill ':' Are yoti- only interested m Xe\y' Zealand? * ; " ■ Mr Byrlie f'Yes, I am sending my meat to .Bristol. ' v Mr Estftl : Then I hope you get a :good price for it. ' 1! ' * ; Mr Estill said he was goiiie oij to. jsay 'before being ihtejtrUj^ted ffiat Xew f2eala'iid}4rS - ,'wei'6 ' -gotting something "better than tlie'Arg'entihe." **•'■*'■'■• "Argentine" agaiii^*" interiected, Mp W. D: Lyshai% whon ahdther lot of vans were shown. '"' ' . v v ' Mr'EgtiliV It is not only Argentine. You, have got Argentine oii the b'r>iiri. il'-tiiink ydtiiiad b^ttei* go to Argentfiie;. A r number .of. - other -pi.ctui'es" "were •shown, after" which 'the chair man invited qveefiong. "■'■, ' - ■<• ■■■ ■ 'Mjb J, C» Field:' I hope you will allow 'us' a little' latitude. The"i*e is a gpp4 ■ deal to be said: ' X 6 doubt Mr' .Estill has.-, pointed -a l , good pifeture^-^-- '" The Chairman • Wnat is the question, Mr Field ?'":.' ... „••■; -■-'■. ' . ■-• ■< ./ • Ignoring this inquiry,, Mr Field' proceeded to vigorously'fepudiate the state ment that tjjcy had, aij ara to grind "Thje axe we'had-tb glind;" he -said, "was the spending "6f on this movement. HaH-e'^lie^n I6firiyi'% 1 m the Ddnmiion for yeai's'tb; pitdduoe the The. Chairmaiii, B.ut what is the •question ?.;• ' / ,; Mi* "Field •• I want you to look at the ,'phota I* took at the Royal Albert Docks ibf 1 ' tlie dis^hai^jing qi the - meat and -the facilf^ies they are .g^yiijg \ig: at thsj,^ end. ..■-...< The 'Chairman again asketl what the qu,estion was, aiid Mr" Field replied that he" 'lyanted to know, why Ma* Estijl took 'exception to their inov6ment. ( Mi* Estill : I ddn't/Uft^^ahy excej^io.n to any port 'developing ' its' trade' or trying 'tip; ': WJhjlfr . I "tig • bbjefef tti is fot people to come out, saying they represent one tjhi,ijyk and thjpy. are after something "else. lApplaiug^;) And P r also say,, and give 4he"m a)i absolute, denial, tliat these" ; criticisms arc absolutely false. ' , .. "■ , •'.-,■•• "Mi" Field (hea.UdJy) :- They are not false. 1 tyr F: J. Lysnar (to Mr Estill) : What you say i« Tal^e."" I liilvc i'bden-' to tlie Victpria Docks, tsaid Mr^Lyenar, "arid 1 sajV therei-arc. no lnore^-clecl ric. conveyors di" elevators there than there are m this room. If he says there are. ho is lyingy and he knows lib is lying. (Voice: PTjear^ heark and crieg of ordfir.), M 4". Estiff (cahjily) : . Iji xiow i»f such strpßg languagfrj 1/ fee.l at a loss to reply. lam not going .to say to you tTnai you are a liar. 1 leave the-audi-ence'''to judge;-. -I /am representing the Port of London Authority^ nt .' have be'eif 'sent- out by and I. haVo' hot "exaggerated. If. 1 li.aye not stated 'what is correct,,' l ask 'the chairman' tjo cab,Je thel^iglr Gortiinissioiier m Londqu aijd! ask,, hini ii^ejfif&rici elevators and ;cony^V9rs ; ar,e working a,t M ie -Hoyali Albert- Dock's or "if "■"lUejr ' art s hot. " Aji- F. Lysnar I"Tajii'*iiot'^6fA r ring to tUo"' Albert Docks. ' X kjip'w^ th4y arp-tli^ best and 'the' most dp-t6-date^ but that is'Svhere American stuff iV «an4l«-'d.. 1 refer to Hlre-Vifltirt'iit 1 D'ouii^. 'Wlieil'e am stuff is hnitdled; ' arid /aKk; 'if ytitr liaVc electric . cralje^ffhd ■ eleVat'ora there. Mi £ IJstig: /Yctf, w.Q have, Mr -^.J . Lyipiar : J say. yo,u Uawc not. (Applayße aiid; dissent.) ' * ''■ ' . Mi! Jt G; FfeM^sked why T^ord Devon,port'had invitgd'thctti U his' office to {fo ihty', Hu's. questidh,' and "also aslced if the /High Cqninnssioiier liatl ndjb spoken iii cdiia^n^a.tipn prtlicUarge^ Ujat y^i'c .Mi: Estill : Ucaliy. t(Hcsp" questions become: speeches-, HyiA I* becqnie'ruthoi c^ftjsed'afc'the heat; of- ijieW" I w'tftfW ask dueitibners'to kset^ootjl."* " ""*' >Ir : ■%' jrLyfin&r ■-■" Bon'ffefcipe. Tc-U us B<sm6fclußg" ab'put ourToV/n^ '^ixtS-. ' ' " * -4it' ;l«*fli r yQ&ok 'yoSi '^vr had a very gd^l innings. : 'l*et' t>thejs havg^atl opportunity. Mr Field : Was it not handled by chutes with rough elbows on them, ami m ma.ny cases brpken bottoms? Mr Estill: How long ago?' Mr Field: Three year.s ago. Mr Estill : lam speakjng of what we are doing nov/ -, not three years ago. (Applausr.)

[ Mr Field :It .is the same, is it not.. ;as ; the. Port promised to do? (^P* ' plaus'e.) ••," . *< , : I Mr, Estill : I .don't see . quite what the 1 question 'm. Therp was/a . commission set-up, to form tjh.e r l'oi't ot t London ' Authority, .ahtHtlittt Haiti* td- reorganise the; whole kysleiii of" tile' ; working ttf ' the London ? docks. 'h * T^he Ivfitet1 v fitet -'ttyi'g. they took m hand was- the handling, of c meat. I What I * have « shown yovL % to.-night as " their representative- is? what, is going tc ' be. ' Ido hot'deriy", that, there nifty have • been cause for ' boniiJlaiiii./itl'tHevpast, " rbut I am " talking ''about i what •" We 1 • are ' doing now and what we are going to dc *■ m the future. " < . Ml- Field : Is not the Dominion losing 1 £176,000 a year : owing to the deducT tidn of lib on lamb, 21b.s on mutton, and 1 2ilb on beef? . r ' Mr Instill i I was wondering how long - the ten minutes are to e&tetld. '(JitlugliX ter.) He said the 21I> allowance ha<i - ■;bcen the custom for many 1 years. "II ? you want to get rid of it," Ik; said, '"it is not a question that 1 can personJ ally deal with; If is" a matter "between • you and your buypi". I am not here '. to tell you about that, but' it appears i to me- that when the people buy, they • take tap 21b ifllowance 'into considera.- --: tio'n. If they duTiuH, it is quite possible they might not give you so mucfc 3 for your "meat. (Applause) , Mr Field : How uq you account foi s the wool getting wet? He 'went on U t say lie saw a ' 'great many bales wet. , The Chairman: Yotf have only got a ? minute more to finish m. . i f ; '% : Pi,eid : fto, my time lias been b taken up by Mr Estilll The Chairman: Well, I am chairman, • Mr Field.. . I 'Mr Field was proceeding to describe I; the condition of some wool m London, • and the chairman' asked what the qiies- ■ tidn was. Mr Field* I want to know how those 1 bales got wet? Mr Estill; Well, I was not there. I Mt'F^eldf fwArrnJ.y) : It is very s well. you gotting- out of it m that way. I You "had representatives there. " Str. Kstni, : Well, you need hot. be- , come sdnystericftl.' ■'' Mr Field": I Kin not hysterical."- • Mr EstilL.: Will you sit down ami not interrupt? , " ■ M,r Field: JTo, you interrupted me • when I was speaking. Mr Estill (resuming his. seat) : Very /•well', if the audience wishes to hear you, i well, and, gpod. ■'-'■-.< ' ' I'lieCliaiiman appealed* to the ques- ■ tioners ' not' to lose" their Heitvpers. They : \vanted to hear botli sides, and they could read them, m,. the pre;ss and judge ! for themselves. Unless order was main- ' ' tamed he wpuld. vacate the, chair, '/Mr Field asked if it was not the meat • importers who were forcing the 1 system at th£. B.oyal Albert Docks. ~" v ' Mr Estill sajd twov schemes weje put before the importers m London, and -the High Commissioner said that 'the Royal Albert Dock .scheme was tho only sensible one. "In fixing tlie site they considered the people wlio gave 90 pel* cent, of the trade. It was.nbf foT the critics to say where the docks should go. "We don't" come out here and teIJL you how to breed sheep," he remarked. Mr J. T. CaliiUV V'h'o "at an earlier stage asked how the wool was treated when it left the ship, repeated his question, but the ojiairman announced that time 1 was up. and "called # dn Mr W. 1). Lysnar to address the /meeting for half an hour. ' Mr Field: I don't think! it is fair. Mr W. I>. Lysnar : I understood \ had ten' minutes for questions. ' ' '.., The Chairman said lie explained the arraiigomont that ton hunutos was for questions. . 0 • Mr. Estill (to Mr : I think your lieutenant got' ln 'first. . ■' - Mr Lysnar cqnjplafne'd ' "that lie was not allowed U> itsk , questions a,tf Wan.<ranui, and it appeai&d.he was to be .shuto ut hero. Mr Ly§nai" connnenced by soA'ing that if Mr Kstitl said electric eleyators were used ►at v the Victoria Docks; ' they \vouW cable to tint • High Commissioner and leave it to him" to decide. ' Mr Estill said he stated that the bulk •of tl\e meat was so hantUed. " Mi' Lysn'ar : • Let iis.ptit this question to the ftiph CommissicAier. Mv Estill': I say mqst of the New Zeajhind ships carrying.. your produce tise the' electric elevators. ' ' ' Mr ''L'ysnai': -And comey it to trucks or carts:*" ,; . Mr Estill : Yes. I Mr L}'snar : Very well ; we will cable that away. Mr Estill made son\e qualifying remark which was hot auUible to nil. > Mr W. D. Lvsnar, a^med with a, poittmanteau full of pap' cr'sV then "'proceeded to address the uieeting. 'He said. he wos • pleased thaV'lhey had/nn^their midstj'a representative of" the Port' of Loiidoi)^ •He was very plea Sled indeed to iuit;c th.at at last tlie. Tort' of. t^oiidon, regftcded Xew ZealaiiU with jiome considei'ataoh-^ (applause)— for tTiey had' not 'done'sti m the. past, and Lord Devouport tojd linn they were goijiig; to cojisidei/ ' the importers 07f,;o 7 f,; .Lyndoii. ' \Yheil lj^ 4%' ;nav) said iiiil'es's tjiev were'^n'ovidea with better facilities 'their ;.\tade would go eißeivhcre; Lord Devoripfjrt' said he had heard, thatj be£orei/-'.Mivty*n»r told him hje, •mighty have. Heard; it. before, -buti.j^ would*' come to ijksk < tills "time. ' ' liefeyT vi^ig, to •'Mt Esturg ilUjstratidii of the .Argtentine- facilities, Mr L'ysnax- said tlifese, were leased by the Argentine people, wlfo, Lord Devdnport lhlorVne'd nim, 'had provided £heir *pwn;/facilities. So these did not'hav© ' anything to- do , with their • .c.ortij>.la,i.nts.. / 'Thoiic policy as an association ' had' '-.'• been an open - one, ' a^na tli'ev /had', thrown open their platforms, Vbfil- tlie' Port's representative' came herWfrom' the great' Port of LondCfiii the greatest/ port m the world, and he, %ca4We. callous, with no kh9wledge' of "our'"riequiremen.ts ' and needs,' and' IBiukfiig tfrat" lie 'had tliert ill the palmS of *)Tiß. hands. In oiTe breath Mr Estill said, they had facilities, and m the jie*tf * h'& said, were spending £14,000,CCa; s lf facilities 'were' given,",- jfrhy spentf that rhdhey? (Hear," hear.)" "He .con^eirtiied' his own argument. Mr Estill' said, jthe pe.ople ' who were advocajinfe jfo^ West Coast port£ had an axe to ."That showed <j^cdedmgly . bad; 1 ? Jjiabe frpm' a paid advocate of the gv.eatest port m the 'worid," said Mr Ly*nar. He said they were simply "working '* for better facilities, for ljan^hW'^slieuv l)i;oduce. Their fritMld said'" iJoHdon* was. tile best market m Ch6' World ."- RlitV wlial w jis tho iißuJof that liiarket 'if' they had got to make sacrifices that vwere 1 serious? He had figures to show 'Jttfa-t the loss on lamb alone by the j'-eijuctw.', °£ l >cr (•arcksc was ' Tluit' was the penalty for goh%" to tlie greatest* port' 'm the u'QtOd. SlTi.Estill wild tlieil' pibduce wa« tlie b.i'i{i. and he Ayoiild ask him' if it was/.tj"}^.. fa'&V why should they not got the b'csl prices? There wero two ass"d^i.aUbiii* ir -.ifi".'"Etfricldn,'' the iSmilhlield Marlu-l 'AssQciation' 'qn.d the M^at Importers' Assijciati 011., so they wore d'qub'ly" !i.rgahißCfl!» a-n,<t the producers m ISevt Zealand \yere trying to protect' thbiiisolvcs. All their datii Was submitted' to the Pint, oi" London Authority, aiid Lord ])ovoiu)oj.t was asked to correct it, and ho dtd «o. He deleted one ' portion ahd insprted a subatitute. '. lAjr<i ' DevbiirWrt- a<Jkh<)wfedgeU the facilities wofe* -'* npt \»a:t l 'j|fact:Qry.: Mi 1 1 Lysnai" a9sevt.e4 ihjxt it because of 1 tlie influence brought' \i> lieal by the : iinpgrtor.s at Homo that 1 tlnj" Authority ;. .changed t(hV. adolvted *silc of. the r Royal ! A!lbert. Docks. '' - Mr T- W.Vi'nc ; What a. s^amej. •, ; Mv Lvsnar : Yes,/ it i* a, sli^int 1 . H,e spok-c of thii. ( ina%nkcjf; %M iC >MvM^ Mr Mackeiv«i«"s statemijijU.that the West ' Coast" docks \vq¥& tn£* bestC'Hefer'riiig J to chargdis Mr t^snar sft^d at Bcistbl, they, amounted to 27^ y-hicjj includ- ' cd Qn,e week's storage.; It Nyus. no ; t fair ' to 1 lftalie & ' cdntpdrfeoh between lVristol •ihdTLoiKlon. when the, Irceziiig charges word included i'ii"tl(e~ flhWt fb'il nut ' m the laH«t\' > TUe<il(!ii''ge-s*^-b'm LbndOii [ \q Smithtjfeld -iviite 2^Ts' sd; -^"W Estxll said' the; chaSgeS'Urolii trfftclon- t6 1 mliigliafii'wavgSto-Sd, wti6f^&'"th6 j&U---1 &F ba,ck, Mr Estill, and cprrect ~yoiti l '" 'data.- (Lai'^htcr and appjause.) 1 maintain," said ■'Mr Lvsnar, "that tht ' facilities that are given you to-day art I simply milkSop to you and I and this Dominion. It U a try-on to quieten us. It m not a «<>und proposition at all. The very fact of putting. a freezing store s seven or eight chains behind the railway line shows the impracticability ol the subsection."' Regarding the- barges.

he said everything about them had not been told. If it was, it would astonish theni. ■ He had a. jstatement from the 1 barge people, admitting the conditions 1 were such .as had been stated. It was i no use Mv." Estill talking about break- ■ ages -in loadiilg. fthct quoting one ls'olat- » cd.'case.. Me (Mr Lysnar j had 40 or 50 - account -sules 1 , there* and u '^ prove ; otherwise. 'By going to the \> 7 P^t of s England - ports they.v«;ould take a "total > loss- insurance policy for' Bs 6d r instead; ; of 45s to 655, thfl London charge. Ke- , fer'fiiig to the wool, Mr Lysnar said he j and 'three of -Mr Estill's chiefs.- inelud- > irig iiltft chairman of the Dock Committee, saw SO" or 40 bales come oflt of r the barges soaked I*Kli water, and the - bargeman said it got v/Ci m the barges. I He said it; was all bluff to sdj a tram-. line was to be run down to the clock. I As to the statement that if. the Wfsi - Coast portn offered' any advantages tlie I bitsiiteSs limn m England Avould have f found it olit he for**," Mr Lysnai' .said , these men had beefl too smart for them ♦ m,- the past.' TRcir sitiaftlfiegs and or--1 ganisation had. crushed thtJ KeW Zea--5 landers out m the past, but they wWiM 3 break away, and go to- other, .places .' where tlie influ^eii^e of these men was - not felt. They were entitled to better - facilities so that thoy could command 1 better prices, Ilic West of England ports provided lucttetu facilities for feed- * ing their 34,G00,000. than London had j for its 10,000,000. Tlieiiy again, the West, GV>ast por.ts -were better distribut--1 ing icentres^s. regards AmeiicaiV, Canadian, and Continental trade. 1 The Chairman announced that time was up. , Mr Lysnar :We had better leave him a few feathers to ny'Svith. We could i pluck him of everythine. (LaitKhter.; , "I have listened to the. criticism with • a great deal of trepidation/" dbsfifved Mr Estill, on rising to reply, "and I i wondered >yhether I had not better take a back seat for, fear. of danger." Kegarding Mr Lysnar'a last remark, he pointed but that they nil learned geography at scihooj, and they knew that the" Continental ports were nearer to London than to Bristol. Th'erewefe boats from London to the Continent almost every day, but only two a week! » from Bristol. He had not been able to find one argument m Mr " Lysuar's i vehement address to show that the site for the docks was a wrong one. In any ease,~\yhat did it matter to the iJeoule of New Xealah^P as" long as they had the facilities.'" 1 Mr Lysnar had said that all had not been told ahPut the barges. "Mr Lysnar has not only told you all he could," said Mr Estill, "but added considerably to what he found. . 1 should think, sinhminjT up the whole of the criticism, that' 98 per cent, was without foundation m fact, and 2 per . cent, was exaggeration." (Laughter.) The people who did the barging were the people who owned 'the 'meat, and not tlie Authority.' "So what has all this got to do with Mr Lysnar or anyone else?" asked Mr Estill.' "H Mr Lysnar sold a sheep to a neighbor, would he keep poking his head over the fence to see hoW it was getting on:" (Laaghter.) Regarding Mr Lysnar's statement that there were no trams to the docks, Mr Estill said if a tramway could belaid for three miles, surely it could be extended another ' 'couple ot hundred yards to connect with the dock. "Piffle," In; remarked; m dismissing that part of the.s ubject. • Estill replied to other points, reiteratine: his previous arguments m favor of the Port of London. ' "May I have a drink, Mr Lysnar," remarked, the visitor, much to the amusomen^. of the audience. "I urn very dry," lie said, raisliiff tho jug of water. "I think it must bo because of the dust you raised." Mr Lvsnar (smiling) : Yes, hay.c a drink. We have" goo<t Vvater here, lielter than your facilities m London! (Laughter.) Referring to charges, Mr Estill said Mr Lysnar had stated that l<he direct charges from the ships m London to Smitlineld 'market was 14s 7d at the outside. Mr Lysnar : That does not include storage. "I have never seen such a man as you are, Mi" Lysiiari Cannot you contain yourself? As tp these statemftits of yours as to charge's, you had b'ettei' cable Home and see if they have not been "having" you. (Laughter!) On Mr Lysnar's own figures, he continued, the charges at Bristol .we're 31s 3d with one 'wfjekfs storage, as against the Authority's 27s 3d with oho month's storage. * "Wo get m "Condon 88 per cent, of Xe\y Zealand mutton and lamb." said Mi; Estill, "and it comes to the demand of tho wealthy poviulation of London, who will have the "best. That, is why I predict we always shall have, the'tradr. whether Mr Lysnar's Bristol schpnie is 0 success or not. Mr Lysnar \v ill be sending second quality to the West Coast, where that is mostly requii'ed." ' ... Mr Lysnar: That is twisted round completely. The Chairman : Time's up. Mr Estill concluded by thanking tho audience for the 'attentive hearing they had given the speakers. The 1 Chairittan ainhounced' that Mr Lysnar v^oiifd screen' his vieivs. As. a number of 'the : ;wer"e "ledvlng, Mr Estill moved ''at vote of thanks to the chairman, hnd it was carried- with applaiise, \£r Bright vacating the chair,; Mr Lysnar showed his .pictures, which were similar to thdse exhibited by him on previous occasions. Mr Lysnar asked Mr Estil) to allpw. him 1 to 'show three, of his slides over again for the puypps.e of showing where the ' facilities provided at the Port of London were at fault. Mr Estill : They have already been shown, and I am going home. Mr Lysnar (persisting) : Mr Estill, may I show yourf 'slides 1 c Mr Estill (loudly) :, No. ' ' Voices :Be a sport. Mr Lysnar : Mr Estill is not a sport. . M/r "Estjili: Very well: I'll concede the .point. (Applause.) He granted Mr Lyshar's request.' "You are saying, Mr Lysnar, what is untrue, and what you. know to be yntrue," declared. Mr Estill,' as Mr Lysnar was criticising one of his (Mi- Estill's) views. "-" '' Mi\ Lysnar: Mv statements are correct! and I can prove tliein. Mr Estill: I a"m from London direct, and know the position, exactly. , You cannot tell me 'anything about these buildings. lam not poiiig to enter into further contloverßy. V«u, are here to make the liibsj/ ol your'case lor pile port —(applause)— and you use niy slides to do jt. ' ■ "(Laughter.)- • . \Shortly afterwards Mr Estill left the > meeting, and > Mr' Lysnar >y-ent on show;incr his own slides. : Tho meeting terminated shortly aft of 11 p.m. •"■ : " ' "' " : " '■'_