THE HARBOR LOAN.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XL, Issue 13258, 17 December 1913, Page 8

THE HARBOR LOAN.

"MR LYSNAR'S CONDEMNATION. THE FINALMEETING. At the Opera House, before a large audience, last night, Mr W. D. Lysi.ar his final address m his camIpaign m opposition to the harbor poll that was being taken to-day. The May or ; Mr J. R. Kirk* presided, and m opening the meeting, said the position had been placed before them fey the chairman and members of the Harbor Board, and that evening they were to hear the views Of the Citizens' Committee as expressed by Mr Lysnar. He bespoke . a fair and impartial hearing. Mr W. D. Lysnar declared that the Harbor Board 1 had not placed the posi*tu>ft regarding the harbor properly before the people, and had the Board placed the. facts and figures respecting the outer harbor as provided m the Harbor Act, the jposition would have been very • simple. He explained that-aiv-invita-tion had been extended to the chaiflnau ' and harbor -engineer-secretary to^bepjfeaent, .as.he intendecLto criticise severely, and justly so, their statements m regard tor. "the subjeot. ... Proceeding,-, he paid a tribute to the. local press, which, *<tfh_M opposed tp hipi, .-had opened their celumns -to iau* atp impartial of the meetings.; -Should- the Jratepayers carry the proposals submitted they would commit -themselves, .taj. an.. outer harbor at the mouth of the^i'ver.' He to6k>Mr To*wnley to task for failing m his election pledge to submit Marchant's -outer harbor scheme to the ratepayers. The Citizens' Committee were m favor of the •maintenance of the river worlt-v-biit was opposed to its developnieritl He urged the ratepayers to hold 1 .their . hands .before shouldering themselves with furthei burdens that would, weaken their posi; tion to undertake thfttrOti^r liftrboi scheme. Referring to v the harbor '" engineer, the speaker Acl.aracterju.ed: •__.]& -.|-a_ the "only pebble oh the. beach,-':' whe came along^and decUx^'ithe.Qt^er engineers were all. wrong./ ' j'^o'hM.,had/W' E benefit of the work so far %vA th^shjtp's. whilst, on the othef hand, the rates had . been piled , up. , aagainst.t t . them, any Gisbbrim still'had the devest port. At" this stage the" ! fights'- 'were turriec ■down, and the first picture thrown or the screen was a plan of the bay, anc the speaker proceeded to explain- Sii John Coode's original scheme and th< subsequent events m connection with th< harbor, detailing the merits of Mr Mar chant's .scheme as against the enter har bor outlined by tl^^arfcdrienginefer, 'Mj McDonald, which 'lie characterised as i splendid pot for the silt from the Wai mata river.. It was on. a ; par with hi proposal to close the Kaiti bridge, whicl the Board had seriously considered,' Views were also shown of harbor' work at different ports of the world, followe. by a. ■; series _of .^iolaißos.. of ...Timawii - hoc hor works. .. These were followed bj several views of Ffeniahtle, the speake •reTnarking that the Turanganui river wa as a flea to an elephant compared witl the p-ixan tWer.Z -Pictures of Waihirer came next', and thjas^! . were shown t< illustrate the possibilities .of the quarr; kor.liarbor purposes. \Z.;j ; . . ■•" Reverting to his a4dcesfi,;.Mr. Lysna. challenged tlie ch-drmiiipryanyniembe of the Board -to put; dowp Ki . his", goldei sovereigns and prove wjiere -aiiy of ith figures put forward by Yibe ' Citizem Oommittee were incorrect.' The speake replied at length to Mr Townley's criti cism of his , (the. speaker's) remarks^ an< V o bdefnned m \ unmeasured terms wha had, been done and said on behalf of th Board.' Tlie" speaker commented a length upoh, the ;f act" that the Board ha( actually withdrawn ' £69.,000r from th hands ' of the"_Put>lio Trustee^, withii £SOP0 > 'br^_-. < "an_oun£~they't_t-d < ' now i redeem. Emphasising the value of ai outer harbor, he declared that the butte "' , factories would be able to pay £d per 11 more on' their butter fat. Rateßa^j^r; weite sitting with their fit^rsT^n thei ittoiiths instead 1 of waldng^^up . aa\d put tinjf the port m order. Jniey wer stifling the, . progress of' the district The dangerous rip. m the- river, . he wen - on to show, was created' by the Boai> _T in going directly against the opinion o **• Mr Leslie Reynolds"; and Mr Holme. After dealing with' other aspects of th question, .the speaker said he regretted that he had to make such a strong attack upon a professional man, and h proceeded to take the harbor enginee to task for his statements respectinj soundings, cost of stone t^t Timaru, etc. and contrasting his professional qualifi cations with thOse.of the consulting en pincers. He also dealt at some lengt] with the attitude of jMr Preston, es plaining his o>^ Lysnar's) proposal t take the .burden .off ,the, ratepayers ant place them : on -the ship's. He acknow lodged that Mr Townley was actuated b; sincerity, but declared his judgment, fail ed him. He (Mr ' Lysnar) appealed t those' present ~ to""bppos"e the "lban. At this stage, 9.50 p.m., Mr W. S Black was invited to take the platform which .he 4?d,r ,^annnun6^ig./,tkal" Z as. ai oppon^iit of Mir Kyshar-V in- 'the- past he would support him to the uttermos to prevent the loan being carried. Th speaker went on, to cc^ntenji th^t.' thi Board's proposal" would beneifit neithe the consumer nor the producer,. „H< characterised, the ' breakwiater extensioi contract as a Ybreaijh/'of' trpst on th< part of the BoaM'Z^a^c^tired that thi £38,000 was to be' pitched ! ii_£riV mud hole. Criticising jthe altitude . of M Preston, he. urged* the ratepayers to pro tect'' themselves 'a^aiiUV vea^d , iriteresti of the Union Company. „ „';'. . T. E. Toneycliffe- saliif'-W 'laid -n< quarrel with the Harbor Board, but hi stood there aa.a ratepayer ~ : and an im porter. There was , po .man ssto >t hlin^ s a. to say there had been "no improvement but no man could be so blind as to sa\ the river would suffice fpr.the requirements of the nejct 26 years.' •-"•-. t - Mi* Chambers: It will see you and ] out, anyway. . . ,- The speaker deprecated t_r&'_ lack o progress displayed' m connection witl the harbor, ahd '"criticised the _ heavj charges and lack oi t proper facilities foi handling tJhe 'cargo. ■. ! ' ' i l3oth speakers were subjected to mor< or less good-natured ;bariter. J. :" Numerous questions were" forthconjing At 10.55 Mr Lysnar was discussing . question as to whether Mr Preston wai a ratepayer, exj-ifdJisihg the opinion' thai — he was not. A voicc'vtHe is, a ratepayer. . ( M^i^sMr : The^cna(--idto. has a roll arid m will seS;'-* 1 »»^t Mr Preston (who bad just returnet from the Te Ar^i' meeting? -After yoi ha've-don&Vi^ Bylnart^l gbuld like t( " " say "a^^f c* Wtffdß. " (I^o,ud 4» d continue* applause.) tMr Ijy^par: Mr Preston i* quite opei - to askhsome Q^t^ttons^but^ijp^r Prestoi is prep&red WB*.opi4^He# his bi{ company and share m the post of thii meeting <-( Cries of "Oh!" an< hooting.),. . . -— ' Mj^liysriary; ■ J&Vi&teMiiA'. has had hi " ~ meetings, JNp doubt ... he will- cheerful!, " agree fo pa^halT^e co^t'of the hall. 3# Lysna* agate Jptunged into the lonj —~ . string jQf : que^iojw.|Qfl , ajibjccts tharanaed from tH6^M_bfi^ Company dowi to tlife -ffife Bf^H4V>'"^* , "*i Zu Mr .Preston :, 80, I understand that M Lysnar will refuse *ttiir.rfA opportunity t( reply? (Applause.) \h^'.»<.; Mr Ly«M,r: You may come, but i ybii db :^bme 'yWahotrW share the cqs of the lajl I,^(D-SorderA, V Ivtf 'K^tija,': W^Folrde-eide to reftisi - me a 'rej^ly itt*his mtttte? v((he ratepayer; can t> iud^e for /; %n^elv ? s.j (tou^Ap pla'use.) ' ' i . , Mr-LiysrtarlM pW th^fwsirion Uf^w I trill allow;- vou to.-cgme; to the plat form,' but f ho#e ytfu will' khare the c6s' of the hall. I leave thttfe Ho you. Mr ' Preston : Will you allow me t< take the platform without any quajifica tioha^vhat-fv^-lTß^tteJ^^applause.) ilrl.yen-M. vi \vtll:?w^it>nf3^r Townlej or Mr McDonald, ifthey they are here as we irtvjt^d jthem^and we will .. «y< therij iiid^ift&«'e..jOTe ,M giye-^Ot (Mr Preston) the same, alidT expect^a--Mr Preston : Take a vote of the meet ing whether they will hear me. (Lou<3 applause.) Mr Tustin : I will move that Mr Pres ton be allowed ten minutes. (Cheering.; Mir Townley, on mounting the platform, was accorded • hearty applause. He thanked -Mr Lysnar for asking -bur to speak. (Applause.)' He hoped thej would record their votes m favor of the poll. (Applause.) He felt certain it was a wise course to adopt. They had undertaken the "work for the safety of the port, and m order to meet engagements, they asked the ratepayers to assist them.

Ml. Lysnar would have the opportunity later on of bringing forward his outer harbor scheme. Ho thought they would admit that the work done m the river during the last three years had been . very beneficial wbrk. "(A voice: Un- j doubtedly.) They had heard a good deal ' about Mr Lysnar's predictions. He said when they got the dredge they would have to get another dredge to dredge heY put. (Laughter.) Who had opposed the abattoirs? They would never have had the abattoirs had he (Mr Townley) not forced it on. (Applause.) He admitted he was once m favor of Waihirere for a water supply, but Gisborne had grown since then. Things had changed m the last ten years. They had a water supply that Mr Lysnar had done his best to stop. He would not! detain them longer, having just returned from Te Arai, where they had done good work. They had been to Patutahi on Saturday night, and he believed they would* #et good support there. He was glad Mr Lysnar had forced them to gt> round, as the people were beginning to see there was another side to the question; He was pretty confident that they would pull the vote off ; he was almost certain. Mr Lysnar and he were the best of friends, "but .they had little differences. Mr Lysnar was always bring--1 frig up these fusty old reports. He quoted the reports of Mr Napier Bell ' and -Mr C. Y. O'Connor m having recom- '_ mended dredging, and they had carried [■ it" out to the very letter. [ Mr Lysnar : With dredges, but not the ' other things. Mr Townley went on to say they had \ carried out their desire to improve the river. , Proceeding, he referred to the ! initial breakwater scheme, declaring'that ; Coode had only been here two hours ; aiid h;s harbor was not much bigger than 1 a chair. (Laughter.) Even Mr Wilson (representative of the firm) had since f condemned it. It would have been no use to-day except for motor launches. ! 'Mir, Lysnar said it- would take three or fdur years to build the outer harbor, 5 .but Mr Wilson said it would take double * 'the plant Mr Marchant provided to ": ) build it m seven years. After quoting 3 iMr Marchant's own reference to the ex- ' treme danger of an outer harbor along ? the Kaiti beach, Mr Townley concluded by appealing to ratepayers to rally round , ;the Board. Mr Lysnar said he. would like to point 1 out Mr Townley had made no reference to his assertion regarding the inaccuracy p of the harbor engineer's data and the 3 cost of the work at Timaru. c "Mr Townley replied, explaining that " the wharfage at Timaru was Is 6d, but " Mr Lysnar had failed to tell them th re c . was another- Is 6d to be paid to the a railway before the goods were delivered. " (Applause.) They talked about the ex--3 penditure here, but Timaru had spent 3 £1,292,550, and they m Gisborne had spent £77,000 m 28 years. (Applause.) f Mr Toneycliffe said he could show 1 Timaru cost under £400,000. -- ; Mr -Townley : Then they must have y been extravagant m otliter directions. r (Laughter.) As to the question of sound- ? ings at the end of the breakwater, these varied with the currents, and it was c nothing to go by. 0 Mr Lysnar : How much water is there J now? Mir Townley: Seventeen feet at low 1 water. (Applause.) T Mr Lysnai. (amidst interruptions, 11 which made his remarks almost in- *; audible) declared something to the effect J that they had dug a hole for the pur- : r pose. He would tell them the depth was [ j 15ft 2in, and he would give £10 to the ■? hospital if it was not true. (Applause.) * The Board had put the Maui there to | di# a hole. (Laughter, applause, and v hooting.) - : '•' Mr Townley : The Maui has not been c within 30ft of the end of the breakn water ; she has been on the other side. ° Mr Lysnar rose, but voices from the n hall requested him to sit down. ?. Mr Townley thanked the meeting^and ' retired from the nlatform. '$' : ">-_? Lysnar (to Mr Preston,, who was * ; on the platform): I will leave it to '•" your honor, if you, speak, to share the c cost of the hall. (Booing.) . '*, Mr Preston : I accept no condition. I The public can judge for themselves ii c i I don't speak. Will you kindly say , whether I can speak or not? 3 " Mr Lysnar apparently consented, as °. Mt Preston proceeded. * "I have heard enough misrepresenta--8 tion since I've been here to-night to c sink a ship" — (laughter)— remarked Mi r Preston, m opening. Continuing, he S said he was sorry Mr Lysnar had seen :' fit to make misrepresentations of such a '" garbled nature. I" Mr Lysnar: Points them out. . Mr Preston said ne could spend two k * or three hours on the subject. Facts ? were stubborn things. Three, years agf , the Tuatea could not float at low water. The Squall, drawing 10ft, had spent two 7 days outside unable to come m, and "' four days inside unable to get out. At the present time they had nearly 16ft at , low water, and he emphasised the visit '• of the Kamona and other recent [ ' steamers to demonstrate the improvements. Mr Lysnar's misrepresenta- ? tions— — _ Mr Lyshfr : What are they ? Mr Preston: That nothing whatever „ h as been done m the river — (Voices: "o.i, oh") — that we have only a mudHole, and that only the mosquitc fleet come m. Proceeding, the speaker re- .-■ ferred to the fact that the Takapuna this year would be able to work to " regular hours irrespective of the tides. 'He was sorry Mr Lysnar had said he (Mr Preston) was not a ratepayer. He * had been a ratepayer for several years, •• ,quite .apart from any interest m the he represented. .-' (Loud ap- . -plause.) Proceeding, Mr Preston said _ that capital had been made out cf his *-> connection with the Union Company. ' (Interruptions.) His company had abr. -solutely nothing to do with the part he r was taking m connection with the mat- . ter. (Loud applause.) Mr Lysnar was the man who knew it, and. further, the f ' very next night after being told it, Mr Lysnar went out to a country meeting -and said he (Mr Preston) was working ' for the benefit of tlie company. (Cri(?s of "Oh, ; oh," and disorder.) He (the _ speaker) knew what he was talking about. (Applause.) - He was acting as a citizen and a ratepayer, and one who j had the interests of the district at heart. _ Continuing, amidst frequent interjections, t . Mr Preston went on to emphasise the serious menace to human life tho river entrance had forpierlv presented m rough weather, and "hoys, they had 16ft at low ' water ,and" 21ft, ji^'high. ,' ] Mr Lysnajis: !Right up to the wharf? ! Mr Preston: Yes, roughly speaking. 3 Mr Lysnar.: We don't want any rough j speaking. Mr Preston, said he was m a position n to explain that there was actually an X additional foot of' water beyond" the ; figurtsp. gjiqted by Mr. '%sner, and he 8 werj.^. -on to explain how. the soundings i wirfe, .Recorded m keeping with tho tide gaUge, and it was -well-known there was s in -t reality more water ; than the tide y gauge readings. The, "fact spoke for 'itself that they had steamers drawing g; up to nearly 16ft coming .'in not far off t, Jow watef, The aoeaker detailed tlie il." pressure $rom the shipping companies . that had been necessary to induce the r Board to undertake the present improvep and reminded the audience "that ' Mr Lysnar had asserted that when tbe f dredge was ordered she would not be t able to get m or out. ■.'■'■",' Mr Lysnar.- No — after- a flood. D Mr Preston : Every prediction Mi- Lyss 'nar has made has been falsified. * • - Voices: "No" and "Yes." ' ~Slx Preston submitted the results ;' spoke for themselves, and if any sane - or intelligent man'Avas nolj satisfied, he t' was insatiable. .(Applause and laughter.) He w<iuld like to know by what a Authority . j\lr Lysnar considered himself - the saviour of Gisborne. (Renewed laughter .X. jr. • Voices : Time's up. j^ -p*-- Preston went on to say that Mr \ ;Lysna'r, , with his legal mind, knew that £ (the. position he was putting to the Board $ an impossible one — (laughter and - dissent)— and Mr Marchant had provided \ a back-door of escape if they took up his harbor 'arid it proved a failure. The . speakeK amidst further interruptions, ) urged tliat the extension of tllO forcafc- ■ water aaid work of the Maui had com- . .pletely changed the whole aspect, and i results had surprised the expectations of l even the most sanguine. (Applause.) j A voice : DO we benefit by it? 3 Mr Preston said he regretted'Mr Lys- - nar had .been throwing mud. He was ;' prepared to say the harbor engineer , should get the increase. Mr Tustin : Bribery.

Mr Preston s There is no bribery. F (Dissent and applause.) Proceeding, he explained how Mr McDonald's appointment had been brought about, and m- j timated he was prepared to prove that j Mr McDonald had already saved his salary twice over. He could only say if ' the proposal was not carried it was a direct reflection on the Board. Mr Townley had been there 18 years A voice : Too long. ( Mi- Preston remarked that he knew it was a long time, but during that period he had been entitled to draw £200 as chairman, yet he had never taken a penny.' He would that he could say that of the borough. ' Voices: "Oh," and loud applause. Ml* Preston said that he did not blame the ratepayers for being sceptical of loan, proposals after the -3175,000 borough loan. Amidst some uproar, the speaker reminded the audience bf Mr Lysnar's promise that there would be np increased rates. He hafl had a long conversation with Mr Lysnar, with whom he was the best of friends. (Laughter.) After touching on borough affairs, the speaker declared Ml" Lysnar insatiable. (Applause and dissent.) Mr Lyspay; had misrepresented the position to the-rate-payers'; he had no official seat on the Harbor Board, and what right had he to direct ratepayers against- a proposal that came from the Board? Voices : What right, have you ? Mr Preston : .I . ' am • ' supporting the Board, not opposing them. My point is Mr Lysnar has no right . ... ' A voice: What right have you? (Interruptions.) Mr' Preston : Tlie work that has been done has been done under pressure, and > m my position as a representative of the shipping owners who had . pressed the Board to do the work,* I accept the responsibility, and I say what has been done was done m the interests of the port. I say if the loan is lost through misrepresentations it would be . scandalous. (Interruptions.) / Resuming, Mr Preston said that they had had too much engineering m Gisborne — (applause) — and he went on to i pa^ a high tribute to the, harbor engineer's qualifications, aiid to say he had no misgivings as to the future. A voice : . What about giving Mr Townlev the Tuaten :? A voice:' You will get that £100 for this. Mr Tustin: Will _*_i* Preston tell us what Mr McDonald has done? Mr Lysnar : The chairman says you. are not on the roll. (Uproar.) Mr Preston : I found that out myself. ' The engineer told toe- — * Mr Lysnar: But I warned . you you. could not rely on the engineer's" data. (Disorder.) Mr Preston explained he. had been .a ratepayer for five years, and; he had paid his rates. His name was on the roll m the name .of the Union Company, but anyone who knew him knew he had substantial property at Kaiti. He had a right to two votes, one for Mrs Preston and one for himself, but as a result of • an error on the part bf the borough m compiling the roll, he could only exercise his' right for the Union Company. (Applause.) , At this atage (11.50 p.m.) the audience began to leave. Mr Lysnar rose to reply, declaring that Mr Townley had totally failed to point out where their data was inaccurate or the charges made against the harbor engineer. Nor could Mr Preston put his finger upon anything. (Applause 1 and dissent.) They could only deal m generalities and travel on sympathy. The Board were not men enough to take ' the platform, and Mr Preston had to take it for them. The Citizens' Committee's facts were right, and he ap--1 pealed to the audience to vote against the loan. „ ' Mi* Tustin moved a vote of thanks to 1 Mr Lvsnar, which the Mayor declared ■ carried. 1 Mr Black was still addressing a group of a dozen or more around the plat--1 form when midnight arrived, - and the ' carhpaign ended.