MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 12883, 2 October 1912, Page 2

MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.

,><<■■ Al n» 'iV . '?■*". 'ATTACK 'ON THE ENGINEER, Vp_*E OF CONFIDENCE RECORDED. N The fact that Cr. Collins intended to present, his so-called "mandate" to the Council, backed up by an "advisory body" of ratepayers, attracted a full attendance at the Borough Council Chambers last evening. Fully 150 spectators crowded m to -watch the proceedings, intent upon the enjoyment of "a night at the Council." As the vttrioilts speakers scored, their .points they were applauded gleefully', and oil several occasions his Worship had to call the audience to order. voice of The ratepayers. Ordinary business was suspended to allow Cr. Collins to introduce a deputation comprising Messrs J. C. E. Turner, W. S. Black. C. J. Bollert".. A.' J. Smith, C. Taylor and G. Bartlett. Mr J. C. E. -Turner-said unfortunately two of tho deputation had been unable to get away. He referred to the Monday night's meeting and previous meetings of ratepayers and the resolutions that had been forwarded to the Council. The ratepayers, he said, did not think the replies from the Council had been satisfactory, hence the meeting on Monday night. They thought the time was ripe for- the Council to give a definite reply as to what they intended to do with what was looked upon as maladministration of the borough. The ratepayers were sorry to have to centre their complaints on th© capability or non-capabil-ity of the Engineer. Had the Council given satisfactory answers m the 'past the criticism would not have been centred 'on "the Engineer, but oh the Council itself. Re asked that earnest consideration' be given the resolutions, and an answer given that would satisfy the ratepayers. He then read letters from. Messrs F. Stafford, and F. S.. Malcolm,' the two members of the deputation who were unable to attend, both of whom condemned the present adinistration of the borough. RESIGNATION DEMANDED. Mr W..S. Black said they had come to respectfully ask that the Council should give due consideration to the resolutions adopted by the meeting of ratepayers, who had spoken with no uncertain voice. They felt the Council and Engineer had hot considered the interests of the burgesses m 'the way they should have. Under the circumstances they Avere .compelled to take their present action. They k -wei*e seeking for the reconstruction ot the administration. Proceeding he detailed the resolutions passed by the meeting requesting the Borough Engineer should tender his resignation, and that the tvorks of the borough should .be placed m the hands of a more experienced Engineer. 1 Continuing Mr Black urged that the deputation should be accepted aa- a, mandate from the people! Though their request might appear drastic' Ujey- beli&Ved that the only way the Council could' regain the confidence oi the ratepayers would bo to accede- to • their Teqbesti ' 1 AN ALTERNATIVE REQUEST. Mr C.J. Bollen said he had been asked to binn-V the second' resolution forward. In doing so he .said it was only on the supposition that the first resolu* I tion was rejected by "the' Council. It was' feared that the request would not be acceded, to. He then 1 proceeded to read the resolution dealing with the ! question of Crs. Collins, Wildish, Hepburn and Sawyer resigning if . the Council did not carry the first resolution. He explained why* the second resolution had been sent forward, aiid said he 'trusted the first resolution would be given effect to. Mr Turner said they recognised the resolutions 'Svere dra-tic - , but they considered the position required drastic action. .■_:••'■.•■■' j • '• THE MAYOR IN DEFENCE. ! •The Mayor thought they . had. better I deal with the matter then. He said tliat | taking the first resolution would probably deal with the avhole affair. He sain he considered it a right and propei thing, when ratepayers had grievances that they should, ventilate them at the Council nteetirtg, .and. he thought the deputation wauTay be satisfied that the Council had given -them a good hearing. He was sure 'both' "the ratepayers and th'e Council had an interest m tho progress'arid prosperity of the tbwn.' ; . Proceeding,' the Mayor sai(*A it seemed, to hini 'stratige that' all the unrest during the past few days "should have come •about so suddenly. In April last the opportunity was given to the ratepayers of Gisborne to place m the Mayoral chair some one whom they would have confidence m, and; when they thought confidence m, and whom they thought was a man m the right position. Ho was nominated because he had held the position for nearly two years. He had no opposition, and consequently he had been Ma voi* for the past four months. He could conscientiously say -that, nothing had arisen to make the position differ- 1 ent to what it was then. If there was dissatisfaction it seemed to him that tliat Was the proper time t^ state it.-. However he r wJok" it' he J \\-as not eh his ''trial that night; it was th© 'Engineer. He felt it, ! his duty to defend, the Engineer and anything that he should say m reviewing the position would' be only m connection with the works m which the Engineer"' -was. interested, and m which he had 'taken a prominent part' He Av^as mot going to defend himself or the Council;; that .would come m due. course. He V£s '. -going 'to .'make a. statement ' that night w.hich ;he hoped. Would be listened, to' with interest, for he wWs sure, when •they understood the true ; position they would come .\o .the i conclusion that all thc unrest ha^coiiie about because of a want of knowledge of the true position -of! things. '".'.'. ■ THE TRUE POSITION.. It would bo /necessary,, he repeated,, to go; back much 'further than. -the past four months to yeach' the true position of •affairs, and it \Vas his intention to review the- different works- that had been going oil,' not during the past four months, but driring the past few years.? He -would endeavor to bring the true position, home to' those who -were/ agitating, and/ m, his opinion, unnecessarily agitating' at the present tune. He would detail the work thlat was being done to make the conveniences Of the"' town' as perfect as •possible.' and he Would show that everything was being? ddfle as well as it coiddbe ddne. He" would 'like the public generally to know the", true ' position, and he \va's glad- to "' hare ' the otjip'ortuhity of placing the matter fully *" before the {People. He would go back fo the time when the^ commenced the 1 work of improvements m .Gisborne,. which perhaps 'wbhfc* bick . 'beyond?'-; the ■•* knowledge • oi my present. Tensor. txyelve years ago 'thjere was neither watet* 4 nor drainage, ridr other.public conveniences. The main W&rk of 'HNs^bWiTgh* ' Was confined: "• to roads, bidwerisi and'bridges. There were 'other w6rU , riiVcc\ite'riip , latic'n,' the" bAbt'aiiifrifciit. of .af-pure >yatei*A-snpply, .drainage^ iqi-to : date, roads' *'".aiio pother luxuries. Sonic of them' wanted tlie necessities, but other* insisted ' thev should '".have.'aH 'Ihe luxuries at Wice.' 'Tito* Council hadVb-eep' met With' 'great "Jiftibiilties irbpi'' tlie' 'first'. Sdmo present would remember the' vari* o\h Water supiUy'scliemefe that AVei'_ irtoot'en, and the, fact that -report' 'after .report .t.l-jat had been obtained. Eventually th'? Waibjrere- scheme. wa.s forrpulated by Mr M'.estayer, "ari eriiihen't engineer ' but tliis w-js thrown out -A ' This ' efchs'.fed 'great disappointment bebause they' did not know 'where to gO for a better supply.. Waihii*ij*e had been thrown out largely t*li rough th'e ihstnimeritalitv of his predecessor, Mr Ivvsnav. Whatever he should, sav resp'ectvntr'.Mv Lysnar. his "Worship added, he would^.do * ; so with the greatest ' ve■•riect. because he recopnis^d that Mi* Lysnnr was a man who had tak**n cveat W-f*nn'°ss m the welfare of Gi°borne. and nlMioufyh-h* made mistakes, he did not think Mi* Lysnar did so interitionpHv. What' man was there imon<rst the deputation thnt had not made mi«tnkes' Then they had the Waimata. nnd Willow pumninp* schemes'' ■ Evpntii«*-lv they har< the A'*ai scheme, ahd m this th-_y had pWnred the advice of pome of the nv-st eminent ci*iqi.ne*»vs m N«av 7e**lnrid. '">-*- --/•'uding -\-V<ss>*<s Hay and T feslie Rpvno'd*. It was d°ojHed to p'-o-^ed with thiV scheme. Well, they **11 knew the f'iflßculties incurred m the carrying *of !, it out. The construction had "occupied f much longer time than ant^inated. Fi> Woi'shin dwel' lfnon the .diflSclties th 0 r'^ntrnctr*"-* had experienced and the fact that as the pipe line wa.s nearing com-

pletion it was destroyed by a deluge Could anyone be responsible for that? Nature had destroyed' m one night what it had taken months to make. The Council fortunately had not taken over the pipe line then, and after a great deal of correspondence and trouble the work was resumed' For a second time the pipe line was washed away. The Council had then taken the pipe line over, and ir, *,yas their responsibility. That was the position when the present borough Engineer arrived, and that was tho man the deputation now asked should be dismissed, a man whose profession was his living, a man .who had carried out his duties Avith wonderful ability. ' AN INIQUITOUS IDEA. He was perfectly sure that when he had concluded his Statement ' it would be up to the deputation to withdraw their remarks and the iniquitous idea respecting the Engineer, and join 'with him' m trying to" formulate ■. ia scheme foi* the good : 'iirid' of 'tlie tow'h. •'• (Applause.) At tlie tiriie the' borough 'Engineer arriv^d"Mi* Lysriar was ' proceeding to London 1 to I'aise* the Original loan ol £175,000. ' The VA_ raised, and tlie Engineer AVaS'dii'ected 'to 1 proceed with ..the .restoration of the pipeA line. This pipe line crossed and recrossed' the stream over fifty times,' and no sooner had Mr Paterson arrived than he said it was a:mistake to*put:the pipe line m thfe creek. His Worship said he had spent many sle'epldsh 'in'glits, I: ]cn6wing that if. a fire broke out, there was no. water supply.' He had been filled with admiration for the way m which the Engineer had handled an accident to the pipe line. In three or four days the pipe line had been diverted, and right up to the present time there had never been any accident to those particular pipes. Th© way m which the Engineer had carried out this work had filled him u'ith esteem of the Engineer's ; capability. That work remained to-day as a monument to his ability. His Worship vent on to remind the deputation . and councillors that all this time tlie Council .had had a law suit hanging over them, and it was not until Mr Lysnar's return that it was settled; At that time nothing could be done to the pipe line. Mr Lysnar returned, but shortly after his health broke down. Practically the whole of the last three years the administration had been upon •his (Mr Pettie's) shoulders. Then Mr Lysnar resigned, and he (Mr Pettie) was appointed Mayor by ; the Council.^ Witih the removal of legal difficulties the Engineer had undertaken : work on the pipe line and the head works.. He had given them an estimate for * what the -work could be done, and this had been practically confirmed by Mr VMetcalfe. ' As the outcome of their ■ deliberations he (the speaker) had brought down a 'resolution to borrow £15,750y In • this* pr. Collins offered him A warm congratulaitions, apd said the proposals were' 'Sound and. good. He therefore urged that £15.750 be raised by loan for a reservoir, and that amount with the of £5540 of the original loan gave ," theft). £21,290 to be spent upon the restoration of the, head works. The restoration of the* pipe line was estimated at £6720, and the settling tank or reservoir at £6000; a total of £12,720. That left 'them £8570 for a reservoir m town or* anywhere elso that it might be decided oil. So far there ltad been great difficulty m selecting the most suitable site: The pipe line was now practically completed. All that had been going on during the winter," yet . the ratepayers had been grumbling at them, and saying they had been doing nothing but maladminis- 1 tration. V PURER WATER. With the construction of tlie pipe line, said Mr"Pettie, they \yould be able m a few* weeks to go back' to. the head works and, give them purer 'waiter". 'Was that nothing? And it had. all been done by Mr Paterson. Within four months the expenditure of the £5000 would be complete, and they -Would then have a tank to hold half a million gallons, so that they wpuld have that for a certain supply" and ho hoped that when that work was completed they would have no fear of the water running short during the coming * summer. No doubt when the town grew they w;ould want a larger supply,- but that "was* one of the things that would ..have to be undertaken by the future Mayor and Councillors. He maintained they, hadVdone the best they could under 1 the! cii*cunistaiices Tor the people, and he did not think an engineei who had been -able to 'carry 1 out those works was an engineer to* -be i dismissed. He did* not know w"hei*e they could get « better engineer :-Tlie • Engineer had proved himself a capable, man^ and m carrying on these undertakings he had done a great and good work. ' "I don't want to weary you too-much-,''; added thi Mayor, "but-at ,the:samjß* time I think it only a fair thing that I should fecbuht a review of these work*, soAthat ybu will understand . some- of 'the difficulties that the borpugh Engineer" hah got tc put up with, and to show you -'that the borough Enginee l^ requires! to be a man of very great ability." Npt only m conhection. with the .water scheme, but m connection with" sewerage," reads, bridge' and tramways, he. would endeavor t< prove to them; that -the Engineer .was a man m the''*ight'. "place, and^he siilcei-ely hoped the .councillors. Would, throw -the request of the raie'payers''dep.utati6n out: He intended, at '-tW. .co^iclusiicin of his re marks to move a resolution' of confidence In tho Engineei*.- " " V '■''•■"' SEWERA^GE DIFFICULTIES. Touching on t the seweragQ-.he.said that was one 'ot 'the "niost 'important' works m connection with municipal works. He referred to the difficulties 'incurred' m contemplation of these A- works,. They would remember that seven or eight yeais ago M v Mestay et's scheme was hefore therti:, Tt Was a magnificent report. He propounded what was khoWn 'als Uk "Shone" systehi;"\vliicli;"if cal'iied outifc. its eritit;*ety/ avould' hays? been -the best scheme for* Gisborne. ' It was to . cost £125,000. However, >lr ; . Lysnar took ur. blie, position that the town could A not ifford"' it. He* tr'avel led' ■? about rf- gpod leal, and returned and said he had found i Aii Engineer .Who' Could. give a scheme tc suit Gisborne for. £30,000. Of course that was not swallowed by tlie then councillors, but the engineer came and reported., and instead of being a scheme foi £30,000 it .was for byer £1U0,C00.. Mi Mavchant, who was : here^in ; connection with an outer ' 'harbor','' reported on t scheme for £60,000,- a rjd tliat to th'e Council. Sp anxious' 'were they' tc have; tlie sewemge that they, al, differences," became >> a^iappy^ family, aiid adopted the_schehie. Mi* vMaf chant prepared .plans "andjspecificatiojis,'* and wilier they arrived it Was jiist' about the tim< MrPaterson entered the Council's em plo-y. ;- It : Wa_"a! diffictUt ' j)bsitioiY' : fof- 1 ;? reJsideht^en^ineerl'd-hiTive' Vheh'all tßb plpis had been adopted. T-Wey likd 'committed Athflthselve's to fns'Gertain'-coursevo? action, and Air Paterson knew nothing aboutVit:*' Tlie result was that the specifications and plans came, and Mi Pjiterspn saw some weaknesses, and he very -naturally was aipious' to show where the Council could save money. Mr iLysnai* Wouldj'not listeA to ; M.r Prtterb6}i'f suggestions, tilit :'as things',' e pded the Council woke 1 tip"'afi'ch , fdui'.d. the Engfneei was right; ~ aird'tliey acted pi'udehtiy and wisely and placed thViWKble work m M' PateiWn's hands'.'- Thfere'V' M-erd.' mfijiy thing's 'the Engineer saw tlirft*' 'Ktetit wrong, and it' Was hot -''to be' M ; ondefe!d at, foi* Mr- MarfcMrlt Said he "had oiily six- : W«ekfe'-'tb'-.dd' t A'lfat>.ihe' shoftld have hacl six months' itiy Thb \Ctiy^ Mr P«tei*srfr> ruid 'carried out {the Wprk 1 s6; far reflected the greatest cre'dit-oA'himV ' *"■ ■■'-' ' " • THAT" 'SEPTIC TANJv. ' 'On© of the' last things Mr Lysnar said ,td him (Mr Puttie) Mvheh the foi'mer'went Home was that "they wanted' to* "get oh with the septic tah , kVii n 6' the Encfineer did '.■s6. l » , -S 'The- >lAvor' ■saitV /, he i : J dt<V iidti blame Mr ALys'na^'for the -trouble' ■*£' the tank, forhe 'waK'anxioup to push on atid do. sbmethinj^.::''' :i Thnt Work*- "totts'' uhde'i* trfken too soon. :W ] they '■'.' would think of the tune ''the Engineer '"out into that work, notw'itlistandingV all 'Complaints', he \vas*sure they Would' agree tliat lie did 'good "worlv ' He (the speaket*) Wo? there day n"fte t r day', and $aW tHe'"diffi : cillties , and', ' the. way' Mr Paterson gronpled with thorn, aud it 'took a man with a*reat' ability to carry-- it out. and it", had not been proved to be a failure. Tt avould v - n 'r*"t' ■ be ' long b s'foro it Wi s ready. . Mr "Patei'son could not be held V^sponsible foi* the. delay m house connections, for tho phraib^rs- could not uone with the' \vork'. .'.;' ."sego' : rdjr,'t, '-the 1 delay on Whataupoko, Mr) _Peft'''-' said Mv Paterson 'had lilted th'ajt.'tHe Council sl)oulcl delay the Whataup'Okd work, arid

I he had pointed out the difficulties there would be. It was not Mr Paterson's 1 fault, but the fault of the Council who insisted on the work going on. Had [ the Council taken Mr Paterson's advice j the Whataupoko work would just be going on now. There was no prospect of the Whataupoko scheme being m full operation for a considerable time. But these things should not be laid to Mr Paterson's blame. The Engineer had a complete record of every house m Gisborne, showing where connections and t pipes were, and practical men said that would save "the Borough thousands iii time to come. : Was '-tliat 1 -not 'something? When they came to consider these matters they would see- that Mr . 'Paterson was not entitled to all the harsh statements that had been made, y : UNDER-ESTIMATED ROAD ..'.... SCHEME. Turning to the roading question, the Mayor explained that 'the expenditure of the original road loan, was t6' be carjried out according tb schedule. Experi - "ence had proved that' hot Ortly was the work under-estimated -' by' l Mr Lysnar, but it was, found that Kaitaratahi gravel Was unsuitable; and was costing' almost as much as limestone. '•■ ' Mr t/yshaV, he acknowledged, had done a great deal of good. He had secured for them' the Gentle Annie quarry. Mr -.Lysnar's scheme, however, was to use cine thousand yards of Gentle Annie stone , a year,' and tlie rest of the road work Was to be done Hvith Kaitaratahi shingles. During the past six months they had brought m no less than 6COO yards of shingle, so where would they have been with their 1000 yards lmuled m by Strakers? People thought they were going to get these good roads for £60,000, but it Avas seen that the money voted for some of the streets would only do a single block. ■ Mr Paterson was not responsible for that. He- was not here when it was decided. The Engineer . had, however, visited Kaitaratahi, -and had soon told them what they afterwards proved — that the , quantity of shingle was not there. Their Engineer was a practical man, and hesbon saw that if they were going to depend on Kaitaratahi shingle and 1000 yards of Gentle Annie stone .hauled by three Strakers, it was no use of his attempting to make roads. Forthwith he prepared a scheme to expend £10,000 of the road vote on a metal tramway, and the proposal was takferi •UP enthusiastically when it was known the legal difficulty coukl be overcome. Never had he (his Worship) received such congratulations as for undertaking this tramway." When this was completed th'e Cp'uncil^'aw they could get the works , commenced m earnest. His Woi-ship emphasised the fact that coiiside'rabW sums '■ of nioney were sunk'in work 'which ordinary people could ' not see:" Could" any ;' v»* them believe that £1000 had been spent oil tne. Childers rojid Reserve 1 ? It was just the same With the, roads, The foundations of the roads had disappeared. The ; Engineer was jn'ot responsible for that. ' Tliat fact had been the cause of a good deal of the preserit difficulty. He thought that if people would only look at the matter calmly, and give people credit foi* hard work, they would . find that good work, had been done. Look at the footpaths, the channelling ahdTierbiiigj and storm water. All these "-works we're being carried' on steadily ; the result *of this work would be manifest. In time; when people had a strip of 18ft of metal along their streets and _a good footbath, he thought th_ 'members' of 'tne.'deputation would be ashamed that they had come to the Council' that night and asked for the Removal-, of the Engineer; (Applause.) His ' Worship drew attention to the weather e?pei*renced. It had been one of the worst winters he had ever seen owing foVt^ie absence of drying winds. But they had been struggling with , the Work. ,'■ The roads had not beeri right this yirinter^-he had been heartily sorry about the 'roads, but it did not matter who was '< tlie ; engineer. No engineer m the worltl could have helped them this winter. Would !it be a wise policy, he asked, now the winter was over arid the Engineer had everything m running over; to* dispense with their Engineer? They were obtaining a new gratel pit — they had not' bfeen idle. Everything that could be done 'was being done. The new gravel pit Would provide 10,000 to 15,000 yards of shingle much superior to Kaitaratahi, and would provo tt great help m this, road construction Avork. "KERBSTONE ENGINEERS." ' He had just mentioned this to show them that they were fully alive to thc circumstances. They -were going to get plenty of metal from GentlO Annie, besides the new shingle supply. Was this a time to change horses m the middle of the stream? No, certainly not. Would any geVftleman'' present do so m his own business? No business man would do so. Here they had an Engineer who had everything ready to go on. Should they dismiss him and look for another engineer? There was no prospect of getting an engineer of any standing Who would work with a Council that posed as engineers; Were they likqly. to get another engineer to be submitted t6 criticism* by*Or Colliijs. Or Collins: I have' hot criticised the Engineer. , v. . A,, The Mayor V Well; I Will Withdraw. His Worship emphasised ; the difficulty they would have* of getting ' another en-gineer-to take u'pthe \vbrk: lr ;Tliei*.a waf too much' of what was'bomriidn'lV KnojVn as ' 'kierbstoneA engineeri'h^" iiV'G?sborti*e. tf; people would only leavtf tfi6nValone— if they would \>nly close their eye's' for six months (laughter)— they would open tliem again to find footpaths and a*oads L made. They would Avahe- up; With a pleasant sensation. (Applause.) ••,'. Cflih'- ■ Unuing.AMi* P^ttiie said^ they "had a lot of Work ready to go pri "/With ; with ,expedition during the coming months, anc 'he hoped the Councillors would support-him'W-heri./he proposed' "his resolution at the close 'of his reiharks. '" ■ ;•' V 'ANOTHER' WISE .SUGGI-STION. Dealing with the question bridges, the Mayor, .said Mr Paterson did' not approve'-." ."of" tlie bridge going;' ov6r the river at McLeaii sti*oet?, either from t the economical or practical points of. view, and Mr Metcalfe agreed with him, so it was decided to liave the bridge from' Oiihorid road. They were to have got a proportion of the cost of the street bridge from the Ccbk County Council, and they hoped that money would be available for a new v Kaiti bridge. While' the bridges Were beirt^ \ constructed the sewerage bridge wouktake the traffic m the meantiine.y Thie was another suggestion" tliat" had proved 1 the worth of Mr Paterson. A SCHEME'TO-'BE PROUD* OF. Coming to the electric lighting Scheme;' the-Hayor said that *hrfd*'necessitated a great deal oV thought, but that'^chertieltad' justified itself. * They hada' servide that aw pbtpordti<in Wptild; be proud of, and the Council '.had ' *}. (stood institution in'' this* respect. He didA ndt' give Mv 'Paterson- the crj?djt • tyy. that,.<but they h*dfah^electi"ical engineer they had"-, the rgreutest w ■'• "DID NOT HCLD VvyATER;" "I horiestl.t doii'ttWnk thy deputation has hia'd'^ out any case w'hateve> acrainst the engineering department," continued Mr Pettie. "They had talkied mere generalities. They should'withjdraw this thing,' and instead of bring- •■ irig proposals to ; iis' to v dismiss the"Engipeer, r they-;! should consult with *;Gr Cbllins-^I mention" him b<icnU6e ,i it .'.v>Ai« his meeting— and with him bring forward something/ iqine' ideas, «omethiiv which I thought' wbifld have been done, something that would help to build them up ;' but instead of that' w^ have isome carping ■ cfiticisni, ' whidh -:ha_- been very poorly ""jnit before us Avith no valid argumerit/or r'easbh.^' There ! hrfd beeri purely generalities*'' 'arid'*, thfe' ! arguments did. not hold '^-ater foi'Yi mdiioent. Tliey had been asked to dismiss the Eneineer. but he hoped tho Councillbrs would' not be' so weak-miiided as-y.to "caVry 61U those WiFh-es. '"' '•' ''•■"•■■'•■' " ''v.^- "-'^ ■" Cr Collins vqse, and said he desired to spedk m the defence of- the deputation. . -'I" :.. "* A '"'! V ' "'■ '.'"•'■''■''' l The Mayor : \ r e§V' when . I have finished. ' ' Ci* Co'lins: No, now; before ,you proceed. He said the M a, vor was to/ blame for the deputation coming: there, because he had liad an opportunity .of attending the meeting 'rfnd explaining matters, but fie refused to do so. ';> j . ',' r Tha 'A'nybr : I chose to take -. niy owiv. time. He said he would a°k that, lis would not be inteiTiipted. He had not interrupted Ci Collini?; 'hlllidrah 'Ii^ 1 had listened to him fov *' ; hbur^ and hours.

Cr Collins said he dldnotnrindtbehig criticised, but he objected to 'the depu*tation being criticised, as they could not reply. Continuing, Mr Pettie said he had hoped to have heard some tangible suggestion that would have justified them m taking such a serious^ step' as to dismiss the Engineer. But knowing what he. did, and having worked with the Engineer for liSafly 2£ ye„&, "Ids zeal, and watching his work closely all the time, he. did not see why the deputa- ■ \ tion. should ask th&h Hvifcho'ut '?givi_^ some valid, reason to take this step.. They had not advanced any ' argument that he could act upon. He sincerely hoped that Councillors would carry-'tlie resolution he would move, and hoped th„t after having hear d * his* ' fexfplaiiation and the difficulties that they had had to overcome, and the positioh. that' -ihe Engineer was placed ! m, "*i„d the very ciipaible way ; had jcariied but .his duties, m every, respect) Councillors would support him, and even Cr Collins ihight see his Way to vote for theitesoliition, so that ' all this' trouble would 'be Withdrawn and: be forgotten, andY all - work! together as one man and one hefcrt for the. promotion of the borough.' f Vlf '■ Cr Collins could- brine forth -any* pj*o' ; pdsal;it Woul* b&Hy^gH^d ca-refully, __S the c6W>se 'by 'tß^d^ifeiKoir was not a right' course for '• the Council to take. Instead of hay irig ' all ; the turmoil they were having- at present, leading to no good, 'they 'Should be AbliAtO work together in' theA interests of the ratepayers. •.. ■■■-*.■,... VOTE OF CONFIDENCE.' 'v-v The Mayor then moved: "That the Council is of opinion that no valid reason has been adduced ' that Would lead them to withdraw ' their cohfidetice m the Borough Engineer.'.' .-A - '";j:5P* . Cr Webb- kcohded'tilie Amotion. He said he quite agreed ; With ' every word the Mayor- had said. ''■ VV Cr Collins remarked that his Worshipi m moving the motion, hadtakeh a political advantage- of 'him. He, however, had nothing a to say until another opportunity came. • *- ■:•.- . ' .'..>'."•- COUNCILLORS'OPINIONS: V'V Cr Smith said he thought his Worship had traversed 'all thefgrbuMd. He thought it was time the"' Council' should take matters' m hahd," 'ahd -save themselves from the ratepayers; _r a* jftfttion of them. (Applause.) Re ;-Wasv sttfethat a &ood man^of the" ratepayei-s-Ttthb-Were c.au'sing; v thi_ jr tihrest Wanted to-jfeee everything perfect m 'five 'niihutes; 13_ thought "that until such -time' as' ijfie hiajdrity df ' gbbd, . Bona '___ 'iM,fe^yA|» coriie forward -tyfth feome i^orms; - ffre present Council had a right' td do wh^t it thought right m this ihattek "Or Smith .ermyhasiked'the tfiffitolthSsVif i the winter "months, :aaafn^ I'_£la^4j.w1 '_£la^4j.w , l WhM the good: weather, was arriving,- and* when the Engineer . was * prepared •L'to' show 5 them his Ability ya s^lariSoPW lmepayers had conje, foVWai'd'yre^Uejlti^g that he should resign. He 'p6ihte„'oitt that the Council had •a J _^oWsed > rtfah^ departures fibm the' o**ii|rn_l' v, schehi_. It would be very unwise changing engineer^ with these works ohVthe point;6f completion. '• ■__ : change itif : engineers, with all works m train for the - * coming* summer, would mean thousands of ptfurtt&s to the ratepayers, and it ■.*■ Would hoVi very unwise proceeding. A''' . . V Or Sawyer said that lie had never spoken against ~ the ab'ilitv of the Engineer, bat agaihfet' the Way hi can-lid out. the woi'ks. Whilst- the vote Was being carried he would vacate the chair, as he had aiVother Matter Re -would Subsequently bring before the Cbufrcil which he ' thought Wohld meet wfflf t_M& approval. - '■• •-•,,'■',■; - M'^'tfi-V Ov Wade congratulated the M^br^ori the very explicit mariner he* had presented his resolution. It was pleasing to see such a large number of ratepayers present; as it showed that interest Was being taken iii borough affairs. There was a lot that could .be said m faVor of the administration; and a lot that could be said against, but he said emphatically that if 'ittqufties had fcgM made there would not have been, the criticism of the Engineer that there.hjft been. He was 'perfectly Satisfied 'i With' the Engineer; 1 altliot^h' When he cfctfe to the Council he was hot of that opinion. In Auckland they were speeding £15,000 to .get information Mi* Pator- . son had A provided them "with.' H&E&iL heard' opinions expressed by outside en^ gmeers that Mr. Paterson T Was ptfe'^ol the best engineers m the Dominion,"' a_t(i that was the speaker's opinion? B& _pV held all that the Mayor had" aiid,* and Mr Pettie had filled the- chair admifratfly. Cr Wade regretted' tliat su'cih statements* had. been made about wetife administration ; it was* not so H-teak-W thosttfwhd had. made the statement^' ■»v'*Ha«f-"'fll_-ratepayers rnstde iri\iair^sAVbef6jt_X'msi ing Such statements as had been' made! they would have been ashamed- of themselves. Referring to a portion of"^ sewerage works, Cr Wade said Mr Paterson had saved them £3000. was , permanent work; going on ih kfcrbinjf and channelling He Was, surpfi'tead ' at a, Vcfei jautatibri 'coming thereafter 'liaving •elect- . ed them to the Council. They should give them credit for' having » li'ttfe cbmm<Jrt<-'sehae.* They^tobuld -fittd- thist : Ul the -different' Works fitted- 'into'; Prihf^wi? othei 4 / arfd'wduld be' cSnfpteted ttb&£th4ri He liop^'d 'tliey * Would let thirf&s gffi&ltfnjr. as they were; and they would ffiidsh*at the Council Was riot far tvrdn£ iri"'theA confidence they*, had m the Engineei^tA; Cr Biown said he, Entirely eri_brse'd the opinions' put fbrWard* by "W 'Miiyor. He had heard - nothing td*; induce him to vote for the Engineer to resign.*; ,He Was a capable man, aiid A Ck Brown/_aid he had formed, a. high opinion of Mr Paterson, whom he i*ec'ogilisgd as a 'good and a fine man. " \ 'A MANDATE FROM THE RATE- . PAYERS; Cr Collitis said, he could not say that anything his Worship 1 -had, stated would affect his views. In moving the motion he had. done, his Worship had forestalled him (Cr Colliiis). THowever, lie. did not think an action lik^ that Was a fair one, nor did any political dodge matter, as the interests oft the ratepayers were paramount. Cr Colliiis went on to •.. c6ntend that the ratepayer? had a. right tb voice their giievances to the Council. They all recognised* there" jiatl "oeeri difficulties,' biit what the ratepayers'- satid s Was that tha Council w^as tiying'Vt'^ rectify these' mistakes with Hit es^erid^ ture that was exttaVagant. . 4 - One'bf; the ciuses of complaint he had when' h(gi:'re ! ' signed was that ' the eftiployees :of file' Council were too numerousi and- he had 'urged the necessity bf obtaining a competent engineer to investigate and aliso , l-^view the Avorks. When, this was dqnSed he had .'resigned. Either what liis Worship had said was incorrect.ffit.J^f'i'^tepayers were not- capable of . i^eehiuf with.!; their own eyes. (11*^ !d>'<3"ar. )? bry-ielection proved that^thf ro was gri^ unrest. In reviewing A the "'election . ca|^-' flai'git at .sotne length*,* herdeclai^'tW^t Oouncillors' who had A spoken „s ( o.>eulpg^; tlcally of the. Ergineer - had support^- - Caiidjd*%Js Whb had itbt .tiefeu 1 : Wcftaf*M tb cqme out ' andt .support? • the V Eng*iQ|^ tb that extent. He* criticised liis V^OF* ship for nc^ ttiniby ; ,aff6rded him of attending- tjio paiblic^iheeting, and making h's '; state-' nieivfc to'tlie i , atepa^rs,Uvh^V''hei Wbul^. lifave saved the fdepUtatlon?fth>! i*eb'jj§ they had received - thatynfght.'-*It^WJ& the duty of ', the Cdmidl,"* he *d^larfe|ff tb lay down a road policy;" aridVtSe b-asis. for the raising 'bf'a'road/lQ)a>V'for / the ..guidance of the new Council before plrooe^ding with . the, . expenditure V<W on so-called permanent Vwoi'k^ .T|ha t nioney " ha d J not b een ' spent . to v th'f» b;3st advantage of thfe ratepayers, .;6r ih a way. that woul&Opve confidence vjp the ratepayers. . Proceeding < Cr.. Collins declared ■ tliiat: it . wa& -openly . boasted A of • bV' men. employed oh the- Council's' Works that tl^ey ; did not confine tice until' 8. : 1§ aVi.d ' knocked off befoi*e time. The Gei\tA* Annie quariy, he contended, had beeii opffliedup m the wrongpl^cej; ..Who ' w'asvi --to •*' Mams foi* :-.that— th^M^p'artnierital^v'ffi*. o>r.? Furthermore, an epgiheer . hid tola ' tjbem the metal: sßb\ild-berkria)s»^d.. a i|d riot put through the crusher. , ; Tliat 'w'93 n'ot;the fault; 'of t^e Couirlc»P.*Hut?.'6fi:ihl* departmental bfificei*: Ci*' Collins allegqjj there was .•muddle' m couhectioiv'with ±hp distribution of Athe-metal,.;an„ltliat^m'a?'--atiministration had, caused the loss *r<-,'f Mr Morgan, ■ Whtr vira-s" flon^'Cd^- 'fhitxflijfQit overseer.^ they had -ever *ha<d. ; (ApplaiS_.) .iU* LolUns explained lie was not condemning the . Engineer as an enjjiheof . Ivit pn "lii< "" fdnrtriisfrativp abilUv. (Laughter.) In -fhe 'fclec'lfV'lig'it Athov . had also lost a capable officer as power-,

house superintendent. He would like to know why Mv Penning left. The kerbing and channelling had been car ried onvin fits and- starts. No argument would convince him that that work hao not been carried on extravagantly. He had pointed out to -the Council that they had been employing a y man m Roebuck road to fill up holes with mud. (Laughter.) He had seen tho same at Kaiti. He had heard that the supervision of the storm- water drainage at the post office was ludicrous. Had the ■> sewerage trenches been filled m the ■•""streets would never have been m the Estate they were m. He was satisfied , that he had been perfectly wrong m - advocating the obtaiument of extra rolling stock for the tramway, because more stone had been brought m since he had resigned than was handled before. He criticised- the supervision on the tramline. It was wrong to stand up andmislead people m the way the Mayor had done. There was no doubt the Engineer had directed Mr Lysnar, and there was not a shadow of a doubt that the Engineer had directed his Worship. • (Laughter.) • No amount of persuasion would establish confidence. They had announced they would not approve of the expenditure of further loan money while they had the present Engineer. It was not a question of the Engineer]*? capability, but his administration. His Worship and Councillors might, choose to disagree, but he would challenge . the *Mayor to resign and contest his seat with him (Cr Collins). • Cr Wade • What a presumption. Or Collins *. I don't think my presumption is equal to that of Cr Wade to stand up and talk eloquently on a subject he knows nothing about. (Laughter.) The. speaker went bn to say that . he understood . that the quarry line (points, costing £10 each, imported by the Engineer were, defective. Was that true? The Mayor (to the Engineer) : Is that true? The Engineer: No." Proceeding, Cr. Collins said that m 6pite of all arguments that might be used against him (Cr. Collins) or m favor of the Engineer the ratepayers had come to the conclusion that there had been useless and purposeless extravagance; that they would grant no more money j that the works should be placed . m the hands of another engineer, and that the botough staff should be reorganised. If that "was not done the Mayor's .administration would be weakened. If tliey were satisfied that the Engineer should retain office, and with the administration, there was no doubt councillors would vote for the motion, but it was necessary to see if the ratepayers were still of the same opinion, and that would' necessitate other steps being taken. He realised that whatever action councillors .took would not. alter the opinion of the ratepayers. The Mayor's explanation had not satisfied the opinion of the ratepayers, for he practically upheld what the Council had done. The whole blame had beeii thrown on Mr Paterson when it. -.should' have been thrown ;on the administrative head. S. Whenever the Engineer was criticised the Mayor's ire .was raised and. he became annoyed* The Mayor ; T never get annoyed ; I am not annoyed now. (Laughter.) Cr. Collins: One could hardly expect your anger to last all.! night; you have spent your anger. He said the Mayor regarded the Engineer with prejudiced eyes. Had the Mayor disassociated himself from the Engineer the present position would never have occurred. Mr Lysnar had ruled- with" a' firm handj and under his administration no employee of the Council would have been placed' in the position that Mr Paterson was. If the Council was not going to act as the ratepayers desired, then the ratepayers would put the blame on the administration. -„ . .. THE AMENDMENT. He moved as an amendment. "That the Council ask .Mr Paterson for his resignation."' That, he- said,' was the mandate that came from the ratepayers. Cr. Hepburn seconded the amendment. He said when the Engineer started on the septic tank he used to see it every day, and he brought before the Council the way that the work was going, on at the tank, and. said it would take another £100,000 to carry out the loan works. Referring td'.'lhe Patutahi, trauiwayyCV' Hepburn said the •' 'Engineer's estimate was £12,000 and it cost £15,700 r The Stanley /road septic tank had cost £4600; more than th« , estimate, and he had adr vised the Engineer not to start it when he did. ; The speaker referred to, other cases of what he called nnsmanagemeht. Cr. Wildish "said, he* would support the amendment. A COUNCILLOR'S VALUE. -Cr. w Bright said trie main V issue had been" some irhat ciouaed. by ajloL ; *>i figures whicn Had no direct bearing on tne case, lie could hot lor th*© lite of hmi tee what good purpose liad bepn served by Cr. Coilius' tragic retirement from tho Council and his reappearance. Jbie cu.ld say it had cost the borough frbm £-iv •J. £50. it was hinted tliat Cr. ColL- ' woVnd resign again;' and if the ratepa. ;s valued cr. Collins at £20 to £2b a , • lek they could do what they liked. I.- -Mr. Bright) pointed out that out of 4000 electors oniy 1315 liad voted and the lace that there were only 90 votes between cr Collins aiid the other candates did not reveal the true feeling. When Cr. Collins gave noticfc last meeting of his intended retirement no dv te statement, was made why the CoiUi. should call on the Engineer to resign, j-.A tne, deputation - had given no reason v. . -^ a black mark should be placed agai v. t a man's reputation. The Council had a. V.iy to perform to ratepayers, but they v .so liad a duty to' the employees, to set; they liad fair and ample justice meted Li^t to them. British fair play was planted deep m the breasts of every true Britisher. . 'until that night there had not been one. atom of direct evidence as to why they should discharge the Engineer. There were ' three reasons, if proven, why they should dispense with an employee, viz., dishonesty, by accepting a bribe, or any other act of dishonesty ; want, of fair aiid reasonable , capacity ;'' for the duties devolved upon] f him ; wasteful extravagance.: Those w;ere the things tliat had to be proved before they dismissed an employee. CrA Collins had given some reasons, but if he t knew | of these- complaints before he should have produced theih to the Council,- but he (Cr. Bright) believed that what Cr. Collins had said was -simply hearsay. Such complaints should have been put on paper and the Engineer asked to re-, ply to them. \Tho' answer he had given to the -only' questibn put -to him that night shewed that Cr. Collins statement was 'wrong. Until the Engineer had been shown to be untrustworthy, • incompetent and extravgant he would give him his support and confidence. Cr. Sawyer said he wished to ask a question, tho answer to which would influenco his vote on the subject. He asked if the Mayor would instruct the Engineer to* include m his fortnightly reports a schedule <A works proposed to he, u,ndertakten. during the succeeding fortnight. If that were- done the Council would be m a position to ciiticise and '. " discuss any work likely to be undertaken, and if the work was not carried out satisfactorily or economically the blame would rest a good d6al on the Council. The Engineer": I have practically been doing that for. twelve months. . Cr. Sawyer said he was ! not there pledged to any party ; or any portion of the ratepayers. i The Mayor said the present reports stated what was coming,' on. All * the work Could not be exactly foreshadowed, but there was nothing to prevent the Engineer from, giving an idea of the work "to be > Proceeding to reply the Mayor said he had no intention of taking an unfair advantage of 'Cr. Collins by moving the resolution, so he could have the right of reply.. He 'had -only spoken to defend tho Engineer. He hoped -to see a bettei* feeling after this thing was disposed of. He was willing to accept his portion of the responsibility, and as long as he occupied the positi6n he "did he would do his duty 'without fear or favor. The amendment was then put and lost, the voting being:— For: Crs. Collins, Wildish and Hepburn. Against: The Mayor.; Crs. Bright, Smith, Webb, Brown, Wade and Sawyer. The motion was then put and carried by 8 to 2, Cr. Wildish voting m the

affirmative with the other seven, and Crs. Collins and Hepburn m the negative. There was loud applause when the motion 'Was carried, and the Mayor said he was very pleased to see the Council, by such a. substantial and real majority, express their confidence m th© Engineer. The crowd then ((11.10 p.m.) began to leave, and the Council adjourned for a few minutes before proceeding with the ordinary business. Cr. Collins left with the deputation, and did not return.