WAIAPU ELECTION.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXXII, Issue 10527, 30 November 1905, Page 4

WAIAPU ELECTION.

HON. J. CARROLL AT HIS

MA-US'll'S,

REPLY TO OPPOSITION ATTACKS.

Tho Hon. Ja.s. Carroll again addressed his constituents m His Majesty's Theatre last evening, tho building being crowded to tho doors. His Worship tho Mayor occupied the chair, and m opening the meeting said they (the people) were the Parliament just vow, and the members were all anxious to be returned. It was well that tney should have the candidates bclore them that they might consider tlieir various views and see who would be the best to return ior thc next three years. (A voico: Mi- Carroll.) Ihcjhad had a good many speeches recently, and they wero to have some more yet. He would ask them to give careful attention to Mr Carroll, who was desirous of explaining certain statements made by other candidates.

Mr Carroll, who was received with cheers, said his hearers would feel with the candidates that they were approaching the all-important day when they would have to declare who was to be their representative. The fight got more interesting as it got keener, and tho interest was being, imparted to everyone. He liked a good, healthy, robuat light, especially over elections, yet one was inclined to draw the line wliich discriminated between fair fighting and a light wliich was hardly to bo considered fair and just. There was an old saying, "Any stick to beat a dog with," and m election fights they had sometimes to resort to tactics and methods which m ordinary questions they might declare to be outside of court. He had not very much to complain of his opponents perhaps, except the reiteration of many of the charges direct or implied m regard to the administration to which he belonged, and personally m regard to himself. These he would explain away, and Im* Mould havo no doubt m his own mind about their beiug explained away. He would then make those who made the charges explain how ihey came to make them. NATIVE AFFAIRS.

Thc charges m regard to native affairs naturally fell to him as Native Minister to answer. People were told that there wero 700,000 odd acres of native land standing m tho way of settlement m this electorate, that he was a. drag on the district, and an impediment to the utilisutiou of native lands, that three-quarters uf a million acres were still locked up, and he was responsible for this. Tlie Opposition had industriously circulated a map, with the xmoecupied native lands m black which it was alleged were lying waste tliroughout the district. Mr Carroll would challenge anyone to go on a pilgrimage and discover any idle native lands from the Waiapu river to the Gisborne river, extending to a block of 10,000 acres. This side of Tokomaru to as far as Tolaga they would get about 2000 acres at Anaura, which had gone back to the natives but would be used shortly, 2000 Tauwhareparae, one or two Tokomaru sections, one or two just before they went to Tolaga, the balance of Mangaheia, and two native reserves of 700 and 400 acres each. Then from these lands mentioned to Gisborne they would not find a shadow of land tliat was lying unused and untilled. The Op. ; position no doubt got their figures from '■ the official sources, the Lands and Survey Office, many years ago. The map iii quest-ion had been issued by the Auckland Herald and by the leader of the Opposition, and of course it was copied here by "the enemy" a6 ammunition — they copied everything. (Laughter.) This map had been produced as a return m response to a motion by the Hon. T. K. Macdonald six or seven years ago. They did not know what .had taken place since m the settlement of native lands, neither did the Survey Department — it was not their place — and it had to be followed through the Deeds and Registry Office and through personal knowledge People were supposed to be growing more intelligent, and yet the Opposition produced a map of six or seven years ago and asked people to swallow it. (Applause.) And by the same token the Opposition were always talking about tho gullibility of the public, yet they thought people would swallow tliis bolus bolus. He liad said 18 months ago tliat the native land question wa6 practically settled so far as Cook County was concerned. There were sneers and jeers from his opponents, but the only theatre of operations m future would be that territory the other side of the Waiapu river going as far as Cape Runaway. This was the only part of the district where areas of any size were left, and he had explained that tho difficulty was that most of it had not been through the Native Land Court and adjudicated ou, but it was m j course of investigation by the Maori • Councils, and when the titles had beenj investigated that thero would then be an opportunity to open them up to settlement. The whole of the other native lauds had been absorbed by the East Coast Trust Board. He would ask his friends to name any single native block of 10,000 acres m Cook County that was lying iti the way of settlement to-day — they should not give general figures — (Applause) — but let them give sometliing dennite and specific. Thc Opposition had not been aware tbat since 1893 the nativo lands question m this district had been settled. -What had been a factor m tho present prosperity of the district — had it suddenly grown rich without any cause if They could see by tho number of bushfellers engaged, the area of land that had been brought into cultivation, and this meant more sheep and increased production. Where did they get these titles and extra areas of land? They never dropped down from Heaven, and yet the district had been progressing all these years. Mr Carroll did not care what the Opposition said, except that they might mislead the people, but they ishould taue everything the Opposition said witn a -grain of salt if they did not want to divorco themselves from the truth. (Hear, near.) Mr Carroll referred to the passing of the Validation Act, under winch titles to a quarter-million acres, tho bulk m this district, had been put through the Validation Court — (applause) — also the Native Laud Titles Protection and East Coast 'Trust Board Act 6. The Board had done really good work, had dealt with 237,000 acres, and settled the question satisfactorily, so that m three years lonely mils covered with bush were now carrying stock. In the past five years tne Alangatu had been settled, and there were *40,U00 acre s of this country left which was ready to be taken up to-mor-row. Then- there was the Mangawaru and 10,00 acres of Tahora ready to bo disposed of. People were after the balance of the Mangatu No. 1 now, and it would bo gone m a day or two. In native lands they wero therefore keeping abreast of the times, and what was there to complain of. A voice : They want it- for nothing. Mr Carroll: They don't know what they want. They don't- know the position at all. We uro going ahead faster than with the Crown lands, which have no difficulty as regards titles. 'The native lands m Cook County are far removed m tho back, and people naturally wait until roads are made. Mr Carroll said the Maori Lauds Settlement Act was going to be active, and he detailed tne rcßUlt* of his meeting with the natives during hi. visit to tne Coast, and the favorable reception by tho Maoris of tke Act, already published m theso columns. He had been agreeably surprised at the attitude- ot the natives. As a pledge of tlieir friendliness they had given the balanco of the Whakaaugiaugi block, 1200 acres, -which was bush country and good soil, and had its title investigated. It would be cut up into one or two sections as advisable. The natives were showing, a good example to the Europeans m the way they wero farming their lands, and tho Messrs Williams had told him they were an example to any civilised community. They farmed welt and paid the standard wages for work done on their stations. (Applause.) Ho had been opposed tooth and nail m the settlement ol the native land question, which had alwava been pointed at as being m a chaotic state, but it had been a. party question, and members would give clauses a twist which would result m tho dislocation of an Act, so that he had to wait another year to get them amended until lite patience was nearly tired out. For* tunately this year ho did manage to get what he wanted. How did they get Mangatu settled? A voice : Caught Massey asleep. Mr Can-oil said m regard to tho incorporated blocks ho had to get a clause m his Act so as to make transfer of native lands easier instead of picking up a name here and there and paying for it through the nose. 'They had been thwarted every year— -ho believed every Government had been subjected to annoyance and interference m regard to native land legislation. All parties were satisfied with tho last Act, and Mr Duthie had said it was a. good, eound, solid measure. When they got compliments from tho Opposition they could be sure it was good. Mr Clayton, who had. attempted to deride and disparage him, had said he was not responsible lor clause 16, and that it was Mr Fraser 's clause, and Mr Clayton must know a lot. The speaker designed the Act, and_thought out every clause, and his clauso 16 that ho liad originally m the Bill was that he would free the land from circumlocutory methods of restrictions because of the difference m which titles were held. Recommendations had to be got from the Governor-in-Council or the Land Court, and did away with these two and left the Board and Native Minister, and the Board was to report to the Minister that there was sufficient land left for tho owner, and that the alienation was m tho interests of the alienator. The Bill 1 was moved pro forma, and after the second reading it went to tho Native Affairs Committee, who objected to tho dual position, the Board and the Minister. The result was the Committee carried a clauso something like clause 16, but the only difference was to remove tho Minister and leave ihe Board. Tho Committee were too strong

moving the committal of the Bill, according to the procedure of the House, all the amendments wero read m as part ol the original Bill, not to bo uiovea again m Committee, so that all tne amendment-; moved m the .Native Affan. , Committco became part of the original Bill wlien it came into the House. Con sequently, when tbey got to clause lb there were glaring errors. 'lhe Bui would havo been inoperative, and lie saw this and referred it to the law offi cers. Mr Fraser was quite willing i.» help him m the matter, and the result was that Mr Carroll went over it again, moved Mr Eraser's clause out, and his (Mr Carroll's) m, and tuen there were lurther amendments m the Upper House. He had told Mr Eraser what had been said, aud Mr Eraser wired as follows : "Attempts belittle your efforts m native legi-tatiou only device of enemy capable of using, any weapon. (Prolonged applause.) Surely the duty of any representative of people should be to mould laws beneficial to all, which as a true goal should be credited to the Parliament as a whole. None knowing the circumstances can deny that but ior the support of youi6elves aud colleagues the present law could not be on our Statute Book. Should necessity arise make use of this message." "And yet, with damnable reiteration — excuse me, ladies and gentlemen," remarked Mr Carroll, "they Avill come back on me time after time on this clause 16, and they know nothing about it at all. Take my original clause and what has been passed, and Avhat is there m it? Just what 1 explained to you, the dual authority, and thc reduction of tho authority to one, to the Board. The Board has now to endorse the transfer between native and European, and then the whole thing is done." Continuing, he said another serious charge had been made against him by implication — they never made them direct. This was m regard to the disposition of certain lands m the East Coast Trust Board. It was alleged that a block of land which was m Maraetaha. 2a, sections 2 and 3, the area of which Avas 5082 acres 2 roods 20 poles, which had been advertised for sale by tender for three weeks, for wliich the only tender of lis ail acre was refused, and another offer of 20s was AvithdraAvn, it was alleged tliat an offer ol 27s an acre had been made for it. This 27s an acre was only for 2000 acres of the pick of the block, leaving the worthless part for anyone else to pick up. The Board had to consider its position, and he might tell them he had nothing, to do witli the Board. He had helped them where necessary to get natives to tall into line and make sacrifices m order to relieve the liability on their lands. The natives always took advice from him, and he made the work smoother, but all of these lands Avere vested m the Board, and those that Avere collateral securities if the natives saw fit to vest them m the Board they did so. lb Avent out of his hands. Tliese lands Avere not Govern, ment, but private lands, and the lands paid the Board, not the Government. Parliament asked Government to make thc appointments, but the Government had nothing to do Avith them, and were just given a position m Avhich they were disinterested parties. Parliament- knew the struggles and differences between, the bank and the natives and that it Avould not be au ea6y thing for tliem to agree. I It Avas left to the Government to make the appointments, and the Government : threw the recommendations to the baul-i and natives. The bank, having the debt, j • had the strongest voice, and insisted on ! having the voice. Tho result was the ! appointment of Messrs Macfarlane, ■ Slninipton and Harding. Take Messrs Macfarlane and Shrimptou. Were they! men likely to be creatures of the Government, liable to be swayed by the Govern- j ment? Would the Opposition say that? Would they dare say it? These were men av-lio knew Avhat land Avas, and liad a character for probity and a reputation for being honorable, upright and respectable men. Were people going to accept insinuations that these were men who were going to lend themselves to any swindle or fraud? He said nothing about Mr Harding, whom people knew as well as the speaker. (Applause) The Board had absolute power and exercised it. What would liave happened to the rest of the land if the Board had accepted that offer of 27s an acre for 2000 acres. At 27a 2000 acres Avould be £2700, tbe estimated value' of 1500 acres at 15s £1187, and of 1500 acres at 8s 6d £637. That would total, supposing it were sold m three sections, £4524, less surveys and reading £800, £3724. The Board decided to selL the Avhole lot at a certain price, and save thc cost of survey and reading, and tried thc man avlio offered 275, but he rciused to include the bad part, and wanted the 2000 acres alone. Ihey then j sold the Avhole for 16s au acre, which ! came to £4066, without any deductions I for loading, so that if sold m three sections and accepting the 275, the natives would have lost £342 by the transaction. (Applause.) And yet people pointed tho finger at this transaction. It looked as if the block Avas 50,000 acres, and people were being robbed. Could anyone find anything m it that Avas a scandal or fraud, or that Mr Carrolf Avas associated with it? Ho had nothing to do Avith it; he had told them the personnel of the Board, and yet "the enemy" charge them or imply that they were dishonest. The Opposition were veiy fond of talking about themselves, and assumed a monopoly of all the virtues that mankind Avas capable of. The Government did not go that far, because they Avere aware of their own faults, and knew that they could not get anything perfect m this Avorld, let' alone a human beuig, and Mr Carroll believed if they got one perfect he Avould be no good at all. (Laiighter.) Tho Opposition Avere hard pressed for ammunition, their magazine was empty, but they Avould go on filing, their popguns and crackers. They had no policy themselves, and had to take up tho humiliating attitudo that* they Avould nofc repeal the Government Acts but would administer them. Tho idea of the Oppceition administering the Government Acts with which they had no sympathy and wliich they had opposed! Mr Carroll did not think any mother or father Avould trust their cluldreu to be brought up by strangers. The Government were the natural parents or guardians of the laws they had made, and Avere they going to give them up to any stepmother or stepfather who would chastise them and kill them Avith neglect. ROTOKARE.

Now, they had beeu told of a great grievance about the Rotokaro domain as an instance of the cruel Avay the Government treated its tenants and deprived the public of their rights. Ho had a copy of the Rotokare Domain Act, and he wanted them to understand it. First of all, the land m the Rotokare doinain did not belong to the Government. It Avas the private property of tho Hawera Borough Council, and it contained a beautiful lake, and beautiful native busli surrdiinded the lake, some of Avhich had been cleared for years. When the land avus leased the Council had nob inserted any clause about- the protection of the busb. Tho tenants Avho took up tlie laud started to clear tho busb, haA-iug no heart or soul for that, being desirous of earning a few shillings off their lease. The Hawera Borough Council then found the place Avas a great scenic spot, and that they had not put conditions m the lease, and so they appealed to Parliament that they should interfere. What Avere- thoy to consider, private interests against those of tho interests of thc community? Parliament considered it should interfere, and they determined tlie leases of tho Domain. So that there should be no injustice done by Avhat Parliament did, it Avas decided that the Domain tenants should bo paid double the amount they had expended on improvements, or such sum .as might be fixed by agreement or tho Assessment Court, as if the land had been taken for public Avorks. What more compensation could they give thau that? It Avas further decided that all money received by the HaAv-ei- Borough Council m Avay of taxation on the laud should be rebated. And .his was tbe particular atrocity of the Government-! Could tbey believe that men Avould cherish up such things, such piffle,- and briug them up as charges? All along the East Coast- thc native bush had been destroyed, Avhen pails of it should have been preserved. He understood that on the portion of Waihircre Avhich had beentaken by the Gisborne Borough Council, thc bu-iii Avas being taken aud destroyed for fireAVood. No care avus being taken of the bush here. Thoy Avould not ha\ *c had any at all had it not been for Madias. Gray resemng that- portion. Supposing Mr Gray leased tho land to a private person and o\-crlooked the fact that tliere Avas notliing m the lease about preservation of tho busb. If the tenant started to cut it doAvn for timber, Avould not JL- Gray uso every effort m his power to stop it? (An elector: There was a lot of objection raised to the Hawera Borough Council leasing the land at all. Tbey did it against tho people. I was thei., and I knoAv it.)

Mi* Carroll said there had al_o been an objection raised to tho letting of a lease of a section of the Te Puia township to the Gordons. Three years ago, when speaking at Waipiro, he had been asked if it was true a lease had been granted 'to these people, and ho said ho did not think so, and no doubt, a. he was member for the district, if it had been so, lu\would have been made aware of it. It was not m Ids department, but m tho Lands and Survey. The lease, however, granted by the latter department, came to hand next day, and, of course, it was held that he was wrong m making the statement he had. But why should lie make a prevaricator of himself? What reason wlfs there ? Tliere was nothing m it. 'Ho told the simple truth tliat ho was not. aware, and yet that was brought up as a great crime. Tliat was one of the calendar of crimes, police court crimes, that was made out against him. TlPe-laud concerned m the trouble only comprised one acre. Ac.oinmodation was very much needed by the travelling -public, "and -by those who desired to stay there a few weeks at the ■i__ii____i____i

was given to thorn for 14 years. As th© ' laud was lying idle, they could not give it to anybo'ly else. Tho Tourist Department would not take it ; the Land and Survey Department had its hand- full. ■It was necessary for someone to go thero and settle for a time. The Gordons had endeavored to meet a public want; they had served their time, and had to move on as bettor accommodation was required. Now, after three years, the Tourist Department were willing to tako it over and pay compensation to them. They woro as much entitled to compensation as the Rotokarc tenants were. Why should they make flesh of ono and fowl of another? The Gordons wero more deserving, for they had shown more consideration for the surroundings ; they had looked after thc property. The TouristDepartment wero now willing to take it over, and m a few years they would have a sanatorium there. It was the nativo owners, if anybody, who had a right to have complained. They gave the land for nothing to the Government. They never got a .shilling for it. The other day they were asked for a site to build a hospital up the Coast, and they gave it ungrudgingly. (Applause.) Ho was there with the principals at the time, and assisted m tho negotiations. The Council said they were willing to pay compensatiuw, but the natives said they were quite wiling to give it for nothing. How many Europeans would bo willing to do that? Tlie natives had also given m the Puha township a cemetery reserve. When they were told they should ask for some payment, they replied they were willing to give it for notliing, as they had a now cemetery, and the pakchas might just as well have this one. In many instances, they would find more public spiritedncss amongst the Maoris than they would lind among many Euro- , peans

TE ARAROA

Continuing, Mr Carroll said he now came to the Te Araroa grievance. They had been hearing so much about it that he would haA-e to reply to tliis "charge." Hero Avas another instance Avheie- the natives, at his instance, had handed over 50 acres of land to be cut up for a township, m order that the Europeans settled there Avould be able To get a legal title to land for building sites and paddocks. The land Avas not through the Court, and th© only way was to take it through the Nativo Township Act, Avhich, by the bye, ho had had passed himself. The district surveyor was ordered to cut it up and to pay due regard to tlie Avishes ol tlie natives m wnatever they required to reserve. _iL Wheeler proceeded to cut it up and made puolic reserves, which Avere given away for nothing. Huj native, impressed upon him tnat they desired a reservation of 15 acres, Aviiich was a kumara cultivation of theirs, on the side of a hill and dry. He ignored the natives altogether and earmarked this *s a reserve. The natives lodged an objection. Tliat was nine j-ears ago, and the land Avas noiv only before thc Court. In tho meantime the land Avas proclaimed a recreation ground, and a Board ol the settlers was appointed to control it. It was Mr Wheeler who Avas to blame foi making the reserve. The settlers were not aware of this, and proceeded to take over the reserve. That accentuated the objection of the natives, and tliey appealed to Parliament, which, after looking into tho matter, decided that the natives had suffered an injustice. Tliere had been quite a storm m a teapot over this, and it had been gi\ ! en out that he dared not go to Te Araroa. He proceeded to Tc Araroa, and first interviewed the natives. He told them he avus sorry there had been any misunderstanding. They were right, and now they had succeeded and got their land back, he asked them to be magnanimous. The settlers, he pointed out, were not responsible; it Avas Wheeler. He Avanted to restore harmony between them and their European friends. Ho asked them to be rangatiras, aud now that they had succeeded, to give back tho land. If they Avould not givo it back, giA. something that AA'Ould be its. equivalent outside the toAvnship. If the Europeans Avanted it, let them have it ; if they preferred another site, let them haA*e it. The cliiefs said they Avere sorry to have been at variance with their jiakeha neighbors; tbe fault -was Wheeler's, who hud ignored them entirely; they felt that tliey had been unjustly treated, aifd so thej' claimed their rights. Now, as he said, they had gained the day, and they Avere willing to hand the land back to them if they Avould take it, or they av ould find them a better site outside thc township. Next day he told Mr Henderson, and it was left to the settlers to choose the site they Avished. That was the end of the Te Araroa trouble. There was no necessity for any noise or trouble, or to make anybody squirm about it. (Laughter.) There Avas another thing they had got against him — he could not remember them all; they were legion — it Avas the matter of

TOHUNGAS

He had heard it bruited about that some people Avere going to niako a charge against him that he, as- Native Minister, had countenanced tohungas. If there was one Avho was against the tohungas it was himself, but it Avas a native difficulty that Avas hard to cope -Avith. They could not under their laws transgress too much on tho liberty of the subject, and tohungas could not be imprisoned any more than Professor Dowio, or any ot those imposters Avho traded on the credulity oi the public. Look at the quacKs,' jugglers, and tricksters m the Old Country, all bent on money-makitig, and could the Maori bo any better? He had hardly thrown off his mysticism and superstition. What Avas this great crime about the tohungas? The Government gaA - under thc Maori Councils Act certain poAvers to tho Councils to conduct their local affairs, and among the regulations were some barring tohungas from certain practices, making it unlawful for tljem to immerse their patients m cold watej.* or prevent them being attended to by a' doctor, etc., but there Avas power taken to grant licenses to any Maori skilled m Maori herbs or Avairakau, because the Councils wanted to make a distinction betAveon those avlio did notpretend to ha\ re supernatural powers, but had knoAvledge of the medicinal properties of the iudigenous licrbs. Why should not those nati\ _ herba_lists help to cure diseases? What Avas the whole Avorld of patent medicine? Yet bile beans, pjnk pills, etc., could roll m by the ship-load. When Sir J. Ward suggested that the ingredients of these medicines should be put oil labels on the bottles, the vendors and retailers became alarmed, because they *rt.ro making a good business out of it. Because of tne licenses to be granted to Maori heroalists, some men were going to denounco the Native Minister lor putting his name to tlie gazetting of the regulations. Yet thege were the men who Avero going to stem tlie tide of destruction involving this fair country through the evil mac-ninations ot thc Uoveniuient.

GOVERNMENT GRANTS.

The Opposition candidates returned to the, cliarge about tlie "paucity oi grams ior our district." . Mr Wall haa just discoverd it, but lie should look closet at home, for the local bodies avciu always m debt, and the County Council Jiad an ovcrdralt equal to a wiioic year's revenue. People -were being made to belieA'c tnat. ■81-uO Avas all received last year as Uo-A'-ermncnt giants by the Cook County Council. Wliy was "not the wnole story told, because, there Avas no lie so big or disastrous as a half-truth. Tlie position was tliat JtJ-308 was spent m Cook County out of the public works iund. IJie County Council received AilblS, and another £100 Avas given to the Arai Road Board, and the .District Road i-iigmeer ■spent m the district £354)4. ; {Since 10^7- the following amounts had been spent out of the public Avorks fund m tuis district: 1897-98, £9208; 18.8-9-, £15.113; 1899-1900, £13,5*_0; 19.0-01, £15,272; 1901,02, £3400; 1902-03, £3400; 1903-04, £7928; 1904-05, £5932. This made a total of £84,396, or £10,549 per year, a long way more than the Comity Council haa received m tneir own revenue. This year out of public revenue there Avould bo £17,682, and loans to local bodies would bo £3508. This was apart from the railway expenditure, {.vice he Avas representative ho had got a now post-office and Supreme Court building for the toAvn, and other buildings, and had obtained the establishment of a separate Deeds and Registry Office. In spito of this, some people said the Government stood by idly and watched the country progress. Those Avho had been hero 15 years knoAv better than that. When asked the question as to couipulsorv PREFERENCE TO UNIONISTS, at his hf J . Gisborne meeting, he explained his attitude, Avhen a A*oice from the back Avanted an answer yes or no. He said no, he Avas not m iaA -or of compulsory preference to unionists. They had preference now under the Act-. Tbe thing Avas Avithout any difference. A voice: Is it carried out?

Mr Carroll : It is earned out well, but you cannot carry everything out perfectly. You aro getting the thing much better every day, and as you find out the Aveak spots you can address yourselves to tliem, but you must give unassailable proof that they are weak -joints. For a man to be questioned straight off, Are you m favor of compulsory preference to unionist- . Certainly not. There is the liberty of the subject. You know my ideas on tho matter, But iL is not that. I said if I wanted your votes it would be easy for me to say that I was m favor of compulsory preference. Now, tliis has been used m tliis way, that I meant that I could do without your votes, a_ul did not want them, but I do Avant your votes, and I Avant all your a to tes. I meant this, that simply by saying yes I Avould gain so many more votes, but you would sooner have me stick to my convictions than give you a false reply. That is the way my answer should bo interpreted, not as it is misinterpreted by those avlio aii) working against me. I Avant you to knew tliat I intended no discourtesy to any section of the community, and I Avould like to get all the votes of the

get a fair proportion of votes from OA'ery section of the community. (Applause.) OPPOSITION TACTICS. Mr Carroll said the other side insinuated that the Government Avere bereft of common honesty, and called it Tammany. If tliey meant the misuse of public money for bribery and corruption, had tho Government bribed the electors? (Voices: No, no.) If the Government gave a district substantial grants ono year, they were bribing the electors, and if they did not givo so much next year they were neglecting them. (A voice : They don't know what they Avant.) The otlicr candidates pointed out* that Opposition members got more for their districts than Government members. That showed the Government were fair and had a soul above parochial questions, and worked m the general interests of the colony .» "We have fostered manufactures m this colony, but the only factory the Opposition ever established was a scandal factory." (Applause.) Coming then to the question of tine

COST OF RAILWAYS, Mr Carroll said the log-hauling line m the Taupo, Avhich had been quoted, was not one for carrying human beings; it did not bear the name of a railway, but wan a tramway simply for the drawing of logs. (Laughter.) It Avas built Avitk light rails, narrow formation, the timber Avas on the ground. The Government had had to import ironbark for bridges. They had not cattle stops, and had not to pay for the land or fence the line, and yet tliey had to comparo our lovely Gis-borne-'le Karaka raihvay — (laughter) — Avith that log-rolling — (laughter) — no, that log-drawing raihvay they had iv Taupo. (Laughter.) Why did they not take the Manawatu railway as a comparison. That line Avas built by private contract. He said there Avas heavy engineering difficulties. The Government made the heaA'y part of it at the Wellington end. The company took it over after the Avork Avas done. The company's part of the line had cost them £9585 per mile, and outcast a little over £6000, or two-thirds of Avliat- it cost the Manawatu. They Avould not tako tliat, but Avent back to the ! Taupo log-hauling line, which could not ' rise to the .significance of a railway. It had been asserted continually tliat the annual loss on the railways was £230,000 and this had been said to disparage the concession he (Mr Carroll) had pointed out as liaving been granted to the public m the Avay of cheap fares and freights, the concessions to farmers, and increased pay to raihvay servants. Since 1895, when the railways Avere taken over by the present Government, the raihvay returns showed an increased profit to March 31st last of £6,288,354, the net profit siuce that date being £418.691, or 2.73 per cent, on the capital ccet. In 1905 the profit upon thc Avorkiug Ava_ £716,---331, equal to 3.30 per cent, upon tho capital invested. In 1897 the Government decided that they Avould not require more than 3 per cent, profit, and since then it has been just a little over 3 per cent., right up to tho present time, notwithstanding that concessions amounting to £1,030,000 on passenger and goods traffic rates had been made; £680,000 concessions to farmers, and £370,600 increased pay to railway servants. If the Government had run the railways for producing revenue instead of to assist settlers much larger profits Avould have been made. That Avas another answt-r to Mr Clayton. Thc figures came from the head office. (Mr H. T. Johnson : They are^eight years old.) He had given them up to March 31st last. The interrupter Avould require to have his ears m better order. (Applause.) During election time hard things were said, and people hit out very unsparingly. He did not object to that as long as they took bits back. They generally found that those avlio started a campaign to make others squirm were usually the fiiet to squirm themselves. A little light banter he might have indulged m had been taken too seriously. Mr Clayton had objected to his addressing his Committee Avhen he met them for the first time. He (Mr Carroll) had never interfered with bis movements or laid down a platform for him to follow. It would be out of place for him to suggest what he should do, but Mr Clayton did not show any regard for him. He liad said he should have addressed the electors on the night of his arrival, and not his Committee. Well, ho had addressed his Committee, and he had replied to that Avhich had been said , by the Opposition against the Government. He referred to the many misstatements and misrepresentations. He had not singled out any candidate. He had referred to the conduct and critici.ni of the Opposition. A good many things they said were such gross misstatements that he hud made use of the remark that Scripture might be Avrong and that Ananias might still be alive. With the irresistible desire to place himself iv the forefront, to be the cynosure of all eyes, his friend took it to himself and put the cap on, and had pulled it right doAvn over his eyes. (Laughter.) He had said he was willing to bo Ananias the Second. He was welcome to both titles. He had taken exception to being called a young man. He should have been proud of being a young man, and he (Mr Carroll) wished he was young again, but they were all getting older every day. He had rushed into the defence of his youth and had referred to the great illustrious figure of histoiy, William Pitt. Ho had not attempted to account for the inference; it w_6 sheer delicacy on his part. (Laughter.) Well, if he did not prefer being Ananias the Second they might be led to call him William Pitt's double. He had seen m a wax-works exhibition lifelike representations of illustrious people, but they were only Avax. It was a good thing that young men should emu. late great men, but if they did that they should be careful not to make themselves too prominent m announcing the fact. Let tlie people judge your Avorks Avas tho best attitude ot tbe_e great; illustrious personages. Some of liis friends had b.eii kind enough to say that he had some attributes of statesmanship. Tliis had been taken objection to by Mr Clayton. He had never been anxious that anyone should have made any suggestion m tliat direction. He could not help people say. ing things about him, and it Avas better that it should come from tliem than from himself. His opponent 'hod also objected to fhe great pirty to Avhicli he belonged, and declared it had been ' a drag to the country for the past 15 years. He (ill* Carroll) had made' reference tp the legislation enacted intended \o Jift< up the people, the Government having recognised them as units m the coiumqnwealth, tho community and the nat-jon-His friend had seen and worked amongst tbe poverty of thc "submerged tenth" m the Old Country, and if such poverty pained him so much, why liad he left his own country Avhere Avas such distress? If his sympathy avbs so much Avith his own people-, why, having entered into the battle and the fight for humanity, had ho left it? Why, liaving put his liand to the plough, did'he turn back? He might have been one of General Booth's first lieutenants, and an admirable officer be would have made. (Laughter.) He turned his attention m the direction of New Zealand. (A voice : Didn't he go to Canada?) After he hod been to Canada he turned his faco to New Zealand, smiling there m the bosom of the Pacific, where there Avas no pauperism, and where labor was recognised. No one had raised a word about his coming to New Zealand. (Laughter.) They wanted more of them m this country. Now Zealand could carry two or three millions. (A voice : Threo cheers for Jimmy.— Cheers.) He would not keep them much longer ; they Avere getting tired, having, been there two hours. Let them all part as friends that night and renew the battle next day with healthy competition- JJi} was soiTy that his friend had taken it so keenly when one was inclined to take an excursion m tho realms of humor. He should not liave been so sensitive. ~e had not touched him (the speaker) lightly, but had taken off tbe gloves, and was using tho' bare knuckles. He "could ouly touch them back lightly, m good part, and thero was no malice such as was conveyed b 3' the other side. He would not say any particular candidate, but oy the Opposition as a Avhole. CONCLUSION.

Concluding, Mr Carroll said lie submitted himself to tlie elector, as one associated with the present Administration for 15 years. If tho people were tired of them they knew what to do — leave tliem oiit m the cold and appoint someone else if they thought the Government Avere mismanaging the colony's affairs, but if they thought tlie Government Avere managing their affairs not por. fectly well, because that Avas impossible, but with a degree of satisfaction, then they asked the electors to givo a further lease of their favor. (Applause.) The GoA'erninent Avould go on extending and perpetuating the lines laid down by them, and they Avere prepared to face neAv conditions and adapt their legislation to.meet new circumstances. Tlie Government had established gound finance iv the colony, and Mr Carroll foreshadoAved a universal pension schepie for all those m need of help. What had beeu problems impossible to solve m older countries had been quite possible to them. (Applause.) If he were elected ho would be proud of the distinction conferred on him, and ho would do his. best to deserve their confidence, but if the people saw someone better bo would accept the inevitable wjf-h---out any pang of remorse or feeling Avhatever. "As I shall be proud to receive I shall al_o be humble enough to acknoAvledge the Avisdom of your choice," concluded Mr Carroll, sitting down amid applause and a shower of bouquets.

QUESTIONS

"Thie is a very nice question," remarked Mr Carroll. "Is it true that the Karaka engine requires new brasses eveiy three montlis by tho pace it goes." (Laughter.) He did not know, but the train went fast enough, except when one was m a hurry. He looked to it to increase its pace from Te Karaka to, Motu. "You stud on this platform some time ago there were only 200,000 acres of native land m Poverty Bay unoccupied. Mr Clayton said there were 774,000. Who was wrong?"— "Mr Clayton wa6

were under 200,000 acres." (A voice : You ought to know.) Nearly all that 200,000 acres wero betAveen tho Waiapu river and Capo Runaway, and you won't find a block of 10,000 acres between the Waiapu river and Gisborne outside the trust properties that is not m occupation, lv reply to a further question, Mr Carroll said there Avas too much of this petty sort of endeavoring, to accuse one. It was not politics.

Asked Avhethcr Mr Vickcrman, the engineer, had issued instructions that cooperative Avorkmen were not to earn more tlian 8s per day, Mr Carroll remarked he did not know of such instructions having beeu given, and as far a.s he was aware he had not. Another question referred to the one man one vote franchise, for whom he said Sir Georjje Grey should ha\'e the credit. Sir Joint Hall, when he came into power, had been forced to take it up. Asked to name the candi- • date who had declared there Avas under £2000 spent m the distinct last year Mr Carroll said it Avas Mr Wall, avlio had made the statement, and Avhen he I made a statement he was veiy definite.

VOTE OF CONFIDENCE

Miss Emily Hilda. Welch, amidst much applause, moved the folloAving resolution: — "This meeting, while thanking the Hon. Mr Carroll for his able address, deplores the unwarrantable personal attack made by the Opposition, and assure.-- him of ils unshaken confidence."

The motion Avas seconded by Mr H. J. Bell, on behalf of the Avorking men. It was put to the meeting and carried unanimously, amidst much enthusiasm, the lion, gentleman being shoAvered with bouquets^from his admirer..