WATER AND DRAINAGE.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXIX, Issue 9484, 23 July 1902, Page 4

WATER AND DRAINAGE.

CR LYSNAR'S RESOLUTION. MOVER STRONGLY CRITICISES LOAN PROPOSALS. Cr Lysnar's motion re-opening the question of the water and drainage proposals, notice of which had been given last meeting, was discussed at the Borough Council last evening. Gr Lysnar said it was time the Council got down to the basis of the matter. He had waited since the poll had been taken for some one more favorable to the scheme than he was to make a move. He was not antagonistic to the scheme, but he felt sure that when the Council went into the present proposals they would be killed. He had come on the Council for the sole purpose of getting water and drainage, but the way they were going they would not get these benefits before the Council went out of office. No financier would take up the loan in face of the patent defects in the proposals. It was no wonder that they were getting refusals, and the Council were losing the confidence of the financiers. He would like the basis of the proposals settled, so that they could go to the financiers with a concrete scheme. Cr Lysnar then dealt with Mr Mestayer's scheme for drainage. The Council had not adopted any one of the schemes. By the amount taken on the vote it would seem that the Council intended to go for the Waikanae scheme and pump it out on the beach. He had drawn up figures on Mr Mestayer's scheme. They were not his, but Mr Mestayer's and the agent for the Shone system in New Zealand. The following was a comparison of figures between the Shone system as recommended by Mr Mesteyer and the septic tank system : —

Shone system : Pipes and sewer mains, etc., £12,500; engines, air mains, etc., £15,000; tank and outfall sewer, £1750; annual cost £635, capitalised at 4 per cent., £15,870; total, £45,120. Septic tank,system: Pipes and sewer mains (Mr Mestayer's estimate), £12,500; four septic • tanks (Mr Wales' estimate), £4800; annual cost £52 per annum, capitalised at 4 per cent., £1300; extra, say, £1600; total, £19,600. Saving on septic tank system, £25,520. Water: Shortage of vote upon Mr Mestayer's figures, £12,970; land and expenses acquiring same, say, £3000; total, £15,970. Cr Lysnar said lie had with him Mr Wales' letter, which showed that to treat the sewage on the water' closet system would be £1200. Mr Mestayer put down the cost of the tanks at £18,000, yet the agent put them down at £4800. They had only to consider which was the best system. The resolution did not necessarily earmark any scheme. They had seen a satisfactory sample of the drainage after going through the septic tank. They did not want £30,000 for engines and air mains to provide for their drainage, when by the septic tank system they could get a scheme for £17,300. The annual cost on the present proposal would be £600, and they could make a saving of £20,520 on the two schemes. He did not believe the Council would trust to the opinion of one man, and throw away that amount. In regard to the water scheme, he wished it were a sound one. Why were the ratepayers asked to vote for over £12,000 less than the estimate given by Mr Mestayer of the cost of the Waihirere scheme ? They had taken Mr Mestayer's figures for an eight-inch main, but in the loan they had made the proposal for a- 12-inch main. His (Cr Lysnar's) figures could not be answered. While they were £12,000 odd short on their water scheme, they had not provided for the taking of 700 to 800 acres of land, which would cost about £3000. Whether it was a mistake or a deliberate attempt to mislead the ratepayers in regard to the size of the main he was not prepared to say. He had not seen the voting paper until the night before the poll. If the ratepayers knew of the discrepancy they would not have carried the proposals. If it was a mistake it should be acknowledged. The Council could spend the amount of the loan allotted for water, and then come back to the ratepayers for the rest. Settlers residing near the site of the water supply had complained to him about the dam being erected near their homes, and expressed fear that their property would be swept away. "I have told those people," said Mr Lysuar, "that I do not think that the Couucilwill ultimately proceed with the work, but if they did take steps, then the settlers should move. I state this to the Council that an application will be made to the Supreme Court for a writ of prohibition, prohibiting the Council from erecting a dangerous dam at the head of Waihirere. It will be a danger to life and property, and further, inasmuch as this Council has set at defiance section 125 of the Municipal Corporations Act, and you have included the whole of this Borough and the fringe of the suburbs in your rating area, you have made your poll invalid, and an application will be made to the Court to quash your poll already taken." -

At this point stertorous respirations were heard very plainly, which distracted the speaker. Cr Lysnar continued: "A Councillor is snoring in his chair. He snores and sleeps, and can't find the time to give matters of this importance the consideration they warrant. On the poll being taken I endeavored to get these matters looked at in a reasonable manner. How can one wonder that the Council do not discuss the matter when a Councillor snores in his chair? (Laughter.) Cr Harding: Look at the clock. Cr Lysnar: You are not in the habit of going to bed at a quarter to ten. The Mayor: This is not Parliament House, where members have rugs. Cr Lysnar: You are all personally liable for defying and going contrary to the Act. That is a thing, if you don't know, you ought to know. lam not going to labor what I have to say, but in this matter1 (addressing his Worship) I do look to you as Mayor of this town for assistance, and I look to your vote to help me cany this jnotion and have these matters seen to.

The Mayor: You won't get it. , lr Cr Lysnar: lam sorry to hear it. When you were installed on your installation day, you remarked in regard to this loan proposal that it was necessary to 1,0 cautiously. The Mayor: That is what we are doing. Cr Lysnar: And that it would be necessary to give it careful considerati in. I did hope that they would get .consideration, because this motion is only to give these matters thought, but now you appear to say that you will not ,jive them consideration. The Mayor: You ask for a. vote. That is a different thing. Cr Lysnar: A vote to consider these matters. The Mayor: You are considering them now. Cr Lysnar reiterated that his motbn only asked the Council to consider 'vMch of Mr Mestayer's three drainage fcht'mes should be adopted. Cr Harding: You are asking the Ctmcil to tie the hands of the Engineer, i-vA the Council to become the Engineer.

Cr Lysnar.: You have got your Engineer's figures, you are ignoring fliem, ai:d you arc concocting your own. You have extracted a vote from thu ratepayers for £35,000, when you will require £12,000 more. Did you tell them that? If this Council is honest, if you did not know it before, and it was a mistake, you should put it right. In your loan proposals you said the extreme rating would be £3000. If we ure going to get another loan, how can you do it? I want to get these matters considered, and the basis brought down to a practical issue. Where is your shortage coming from? Is not that a prudent thing for you to consider?

Cr Whinra-y -seconded Cr Lysiiar's motion not as ordinarily "with pleasure," but out of necessity. He thought Cr Lysmir desired the thanks of the Council for his concise and lucid speech. If there was anything in it, there was matter for serious consideration, and the scheme should be put on a legitimate basis. By the figures shown, Cr Lysnar ha-d given evidence that the people- were not in possession of the facts at the time of the poll. He hoped the Council would consider the question. Cr Kennedy said the whole of the questions raised Bad been discussed before, and Cr Lysnar had opposed Mr Mestayer's engineering and geology lock, stock and barrel. There was'nothing new to discuss, and it was simply opening up a question on which Councillor* Whim-iiy and Lysnar had been so hopelessly defeated. With regard to the loan,- so important a matter could not be hurried. They had exhausted the colony before going to the Home market. The motion was the outcome of Cr Lysiiar's repeated assertions that he had something up his sleeves to stop water and drainage. Anyone who had not Cr Lysnar's dogged pertinacity would have taken the beating received at the poll. To discuss the motion would prejudice the loan, and they should not do so.

Cr Mason endorsed Cr Kennedy's remarks. It was just what they had expected from Cr Lysnar after his assertion that lie had something up his sleeves. It was not fair for him after this time to bring the matter up again. Cr Jones said after the poll he had felt the Council were there to carry out the wishes of the ratepayers. Cr Lysnar said his figures were unassailable, but he pointed out that where Cr Lysnar made the mistake. He diil not read Mr Mestayer's proposals grammatically. It was quite plain that for £21,500 they could get an eight-inch main, and that Ii 12-inchmain would cost £25,000 odd. The-Slayer said he wus sorry Cr Lysnar I mil brought the matter up. It was done with the object of preventing the money being obtained. Why should Cr Lysnar hurry the loan on on one hand, and then tell the Council that the settlers intended to block them making the dam? It was a continuation of Cr Lysiiar's ef-

forts to block the scheme. Regarding Cr Lysnar's statement that he had nob seen the voting paper until the night be-; fore the poll,' the substance of the voting paper was merely the advertisement which had been passed by the Council when Cr Lysnar was present. Until they had their working plan, the Council could not get within a few thousand of the cost of the items. He believed that the £35,000 would buy the land and put water into the Borough in a 12-inch main. If the Council waited until they could get a supply that would wait to eternity, they would never get water. Everywhere they had to extend their supply with the increase in population. The reference to the £18,000 was only a suggestion by Mr Mestayer as to the cost of the septic tanks, but the Engineer did not recommend it. The discussion might endanger the prospects of the loan. It was many months before the Council got their £10,000 loan, and that had to be obtained in London. No more certain way to stop the loan could be taken than to hint that the Council were to be taken to the Supreme Court, owing to the land for the head works not being obtained legally. The fact of the railway now being near the site of the water supply would minimise the cost. Having gone to the expense of getting the opinion of the people they should proceed with the loan, and he thought that £75,000 was quite sufficient. A further sum of £12,000 was not required. Cr Miller said what had fallen from Cr Lysnar was merely a repetition of his former opinions. If they had made an error, they would go to the ratepayers and rectify it. Cr Lysnar said in the replies given the Council had got away from the point. Not one had touched on the question as to which drainage scheme was going to be adopted. Cr Jones had tried to explain away the figures, but Mr Mestayer's estimate was £31,000 for an eight-inch main. The matters had uot been gone into before. The poll had not been obtained by right means, and the ratepayers were not told of the discrepancy in the figures. It was shown by the Mayor and Cr Miller, stating that they could go to the ratepayers again for any deficit when the £75,000 was spent. Cr Miller and the Mayor corrected this, the latter stating that he had said if they waited until the Council could get a supply which would last until eternity they would never get one. A warm discussion arose between Crs Lysnar and Jones in regard to the wording of Mr Mestayer's estimate for the cost. Cr Jones held that the insertion of a semi-colon in the printed report was responsible for Cr Lysnar's view of the estimate, and asserted that the cost of bringing the water into the town by an eight-inch pipe would only be £21,500. A 12-inch main water supply could be got for £25,000.

Cr Lysnar said Cr Jones's assertion, that Mr Mestayer's estimate of £25,000 referred to a 12-inch main, was only an assumption. By referring to the report further on, it would be seen that the cost of an eight-inch main, with reticulation, was put down at £31,000. Cr Lysnar went on to say that the Council could not get their loan, as they had been in a fix with the basis of their proposals. There was a manifest error on the figures, which should be corrected at once. He had given the information to the public about the voting paper the night before the poll.

In reply to Cr Mason, Cr Lysuar said he had quoted. Mr DeLautour's opinion to the Council, before that they were liable to get their loan quashed. Mr DeLautour had said he did not think there was a. Council so wrong-headed, but Cr Lysnar thought they had one at the present moment. The Council were short on the loan proposals. The Mayor and Cr Harding: We don't -admit that there will be any shortage. Cr Lysnar said it appeared to be quite useless to get the Council to consider the question. It was not his intention to stay in the Council indefinitely, and he wished to see the question settled. The motion, on being put to the meeting, was lost, Crs Lysnar and Whinray only voting for it.