MAGISTRATE'S COURT.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXI, Issue 7013, 27 June 1894, Page 2

MAGISTRATE'S COURT.

tBEFOBE J. Booth, Esq., S.M.] ALLEGED ARSON.

Robert Little was charged with having wilfully set fire to a building, to wit, a stable situated in Lowe street, on the 25ch May, 1894.

The following evidence was taken yeßter* day afternoon : —

Peter Briekley, a cabdriver ia the employ of accused, stated that he was in Little's employ on the 25th of last month. Retnem- H ' bered the fire of that date. He was sleeping in Little's stables above the harness room. There was a back stable immediately adjoining Solomon's yard, and between the— harness room and the main stable was a yard. The night of the fire he went to bed at 11 o'clock, Foster being left ia charge of the stable. After he was aroused he let the horses out of the boxes, and removed the desk out of the Lowe Street building and took it to the bank of the river. After several things were shifted Little came round from his house. He jiad no leggings on. It was after moving the desk he saw Little. He also removed the buggies. Little told him not to get excited, if they qot burned out it could not be helped. Did not remember his saying anything else. No one, had told him to take the buggies oat. He told witness he would mind the back of the stables if witness looked after the front. Heard him say [something to Foster about | the desk over which they had some words. It may have been directly after the buggiea were removed that Little came round from his house. Little asked him where he had put the desk, and told him witness had pub it down the river bank. He then told Foster to go and bring it back. They (Foster and Little) had some words, but what it was witness could not say. Little further told witness not to sleep in the room over the harness room as it was nob safe. Told Little he would not go to bed that nightas he considered it wasn't safe. Ho told witness that Boyd had told him the stables had been on fire at the back, but witneß3 had not seen it. Up to that time he had not heard of any other fire in the stables but) that one. After that he heard of another in the stables. It was between 5 and 6in the morning. He went down to that fire, and found Thomson, the fireman, and others putting it out. This was in the manger of the back stable, near the Lowe-streeb entranoe. Little dismissed witness from his employ on the afternoon of Che 25th. Little asked him to go back on the 26th. The main fire was pretty well under when the third fire broke out. Last saw Little on the morning of the fire in Gladstone road, ao about 4 o'clock. He did not see him again until 10 o'clock the same morning. Little's private house is close to the stable. There was hay in the manger where the last fire was discovered. There was also some hay in the loft, but could not Bay what quantity. By Mr DeLautour : Did not know where Little kept the cash taken through the day. The cash he took during the day was given to Little in the office. Witnesa had not] nor had Foster, anything to do with the.deak. Did not know what it contained beyond books and accounts. John Foster deposed he was driver in the employ of Little on the 24th May laftt^tatf was hot in accused's employ now. He w&tU on duty in the stable from the evenpg of^ the 24th to the morning of the 25thjMay, and remembered the fire at Parnell's. Heard the first alarm, and the first thing ie did was to remove his own things and » get the horses out of the loose boxe after which the buggies and saddlery v re removed. Had not seen acouaed duri { that time, but saw him after most of the fuggiea were removed. Gould not say wjjre he came from. He asked where the bo? 8 and desk were, 'and witness told him tIW were by the river bank. He told wijpSß to bring them back. Told accused tw were all right, and they had better get] vne of the other things out, to which Litwjjreßijed

be better to get the collars out. Accused told him never to mind, but to go and get the books. At this point the main fire had not been got under. Told Little he did not want to be chased about, and then went and got tho desk and put it in the office from where it was taken. A short time after replacing the desk, removed the buggies and other 'things into the stable, which would be an hour and a half after the main fire broke out. Saw two fires in the stables that night. Saw the first one before the goods were removed into the stables. This was in the back stable, near Soloman's, who was busy putting it out when witness saw it. Tbefire witness saw was in the manger. Before he saw the fire he saw Little oqming out of the 'stable from the direction of the yard, and immediately after the fire 1 met Little coming from the stables into the yard. He was walking in the direction of the yard. Tdld. accused there had been a fire in tbe. back stable, and that someone had been - trying to set fire to the place, to which he replied that there bad been a fire there before. Witness thought he*|said Boyd had told him. That was all the conversation they had then. Showed accused where the fire had taken"plftce. Little had toldlßrickley and hims"elf not to sleep in the back room, to which he replied that he did not intend going to bed at all that night. He ' .was afraid to go to bed, as he considered it * unsafe, as two attempts had been made on the stables. He was told by accused to watch the front whilst Little himself watched the back. Little was about the yard for some time after the last conversation. He came down the yard and told witness the loose boxes were quite warm from the main fire. He then, after remaining about the place for sometime, went up Lowe street towards Gladstone-road, where witness lost sight of him. Next met him coming out of Finlay's door at 3.30. He went back and had a drink with witness. He left the hotel before witness and Brickley. Next time witness saw him he was in Mr W. Good's shop. Saw him leave there ; and go . down Lowe-street to the stables. Was across the road opposite when Little went into the. stables.* Then went up to the corner of the street. Tho door of the lower stable was shut. Was at the corner fot 20 minutes or half-an-hour, after which ! he went back to the stable again. Saw Little there in the yard between the front front and back stables. Remained at the Btable a very short time. Little was walk- > ing in the yard when witness saw him. i Little did not see him as witness was in dne of i the stalls. He was walking towards the loose boxes and towards the opening of the back stables. Witness then went away when he saw it was Little. He then went up to the corner, and about five minutes afterwards i he heard that the stables were on fire. He i ran back to tbe stable, and saw a fire in the manger nearly opposite the main entrance. Thomson the fireman was there, but did not' • see Little there. Next saw Little at about 11.30 that morning. The Sergeant of Police was there then. He did not smell any kerosene at the third fire. Pointed out to i the Sergt. -Major where three fires had taken place in the back stables. Did not i eee Little come out of the stables or go up the road from the tinie' that he saw him in the yard before the third fire. Had he come up towards Gladstone road witness i would have seen bim. Told accused he had . seen him in the yard about ten minutes i before the last fire. Mrs Little said he. was ; in £ed half-ah-hour before the last fii^e. Do not use any kerosene about the stables, < To Mr DeLautour": Did >flot,kn6w* what : was kept in the desk. On being further > questioned by Mr DeLautour, witness said i he bad seen inside it, knew that, billheads i and the day book were kept therev The day book would show the earnings' of the stables, i Had nothing to do with the books. Little i did the book-keeping himself. There was a carriage, single hooded buggy, open i waggonette, closed-in waggonette, two doable-seated buggies, daisy cart, and a dog cart on the premises that night. One of the double buggies was nearly new ; that was tbe one that came from Napier. Could not say what would be the value of the traps. The harness and buggies were all removed on to the road opposite tbe blacksmith s shop. Little told him to remove the buggies, etc., back to tbe stable, when he did so. Could not say what time this was. The main fire was pretty well in hand then. Was satisfied it would be safe to remove the things back to the stables. It was be .: fore he put the buggies back that he saw; the first fire in Little's stables He was quite . satisfied before putting the buggies back there was no danger from that i fire. The entrance to the front stable is not j so long as the entrance to the main stable, i That stable is the full length of the big stable. There is a loft over the front stable and the width of the right of way through tbe stable is large enough' to admit of a buggy being driven through. There are stalls on both sides of it. There was a horse in that stable on the night of the fire. It belonged to a stranger. There was hay lying about the racks and underneath them. The gas' was burning part of the night in i the stable. It was put out about 9. 30. The main stable had been used the night of the 24th, and. there was hay intbe racks. It would have been just as easy for an incendiary to have set fire to the front or main stables as tbe back stables. It would be reasonable that Little should. have the front- stable. watched as well as the back, as there had been two fires in the stable. Was jn the middle of the road watching the front ■ as he was told to db,**when accused came out - of the yard through the boarded stable into Lowe Street, Knew at that time that he M ' was at the back stables. No one drew his •■' "attention to the second fire. He, did not sei, - it from the front, but happened to be at the . •back when he saw the fire was being put out, Did not see Little there. That fire was put out before witness left it. He Was not there ) ten minutes. It was after that he met Little coming through the stable from Lowe Street. Witness told him of the fire, and accused told witness of the, previous fit'e.. Little generally used to go home through the stables if the doors were open;. There is a door to, the front .'Stable, and it was open when he saw Little . leaving the corner of Gladstone road to go towards the stables. Sometimes he would get to his house by this way, sometimes round the corner. Did not suppose that Little would go any other way than through the stable to get to his house. It was a fact that accused had been drinking that night, little was the worse for drink when witness met him at Finlay's the morning of the fire. The morning of the fire Little said in the presence of his wife and witness that some one had tried to fire the stables. Was not dismissed by Little. Gave Little notice of his intention to leave his employ. Brickley was mistaken if he said witness had been dismissed. Had been in Little's employ once before, but could not say that he had been dismissed. At this stage the Court adjourned till 10.30 to-day. THIS DAY. Upon the Court resuming this morning, John Robert Redstone deposed he was a livery stable-keeper carrying on business in stables formerly occupied by defendant. He had taken them on a lease of seven years from Mr J. A. Friar, of Napier. He entered 'on occupation on the 20th June. On the 21st May he had a conversation with defendant regarding the business. Previous to this be had obtained a price list of stock, made out by defendant. On the 21st witness saw defendant at the stables. He looked at some of the horses, and compared them with the list. After a short conversation, which witness' did not recollect, they had a look at the buggies, and witness told defendant many of the articles were overvalued, with the exception of the horses. If witness decided to purchase he would have to make a selection. In any case, at that time he was not prepared to deal. Defendant said if witness did not tako the lot he Could not take any. He told defendant what he had really come for was to see whether defendant could continue, the' business for a couple of months, bo that witness could suit his employers. Defendant replied he could not do that, -as he was anxious to get out of the business. Defendant stated he wished to get away from temptation, that was if he could sell out, iand if not, he had another stable offered him and he would run opposition. Defendant said he had almost .made up his mind to close the place up at the end of the month. Witness remonstrated against such a proceeding as being prejudicial to both witness' and defendants' interests. Defen.; dant said he was desirous of getting out ojf it if he could. He saw defendant several , ii times between tbe 21st and 24th. On the G evening of the 24th, witness saw defendant

any chance of them coming to an agreement by which defeudant was to keep on the business for a time. Defendant said if witness bought the whole plant there and then, he would run it for two months at witness' risk. Witness replied that this was out of the question, but if defendant would keep his offer open, witness would buy what he was able to at rather more than market value. Defendant replied, "Oh, no, you don'C have me that^way. If you think that you are going to walk into my business without paying for it you make a d rmistake. I will give the men notice tonight, and shut the place, up at the end of the month, then I reckon,' there will be very little business for you when you come." Wituess thought this meant the business would- fall away, through the 'stables being closed. • Witness said he was sorry ; they could not agree, and left that night for Napier. . To Mr DeLautour :He had a good look at the carriages and bnggies, and formed an estimate of their value. He was not in a position to buy the whole plant, and 'that was why he wished to make a selection. He noticed a brougham which would cost £120 new, and Mr Little quoted it to him at £50. This would not be much out of the way. Witness noticed the waggonette which was priced at £25, but witness considered the outside value of it to be £20. The two double buggies (the best of the two) was priced at £45 and the other at £30. The one cost £35 new. in Napier, the other would not be worth more than £20. She two would be worth £55. A little buggy was priced at £30, but witness did not consider it worth more than £25. Other old traps were also mentioned which would not be worth more than £26 for the lot. There was also a dray but witness did not see it. If witness, had an insurance of £80 on the whole of the plant, it would not pay him to burn it. Witness thought Little's statement as to having another stable offered him was a threat. Witness inferred that thereasbn defendant wished him to take the whole plant wa&that he had another stable offered where he- dould work it. At this, time witness .did not think Stevenson's present stables were let, but he knew now that they were then. To Mr Nolan : He went through the saddlery and harness, which defendant valued at about £80.

James Charles Dunlop deposed he was manager 6f the Poverty Bay Farmers' Cooperative Association. The association was agent for the Commercial Union Assurance Company. Defendant had an insurance upon the stock. The produced document is a copy of the proposal upon which the policy was issued. The insurance was in force on the 24th May. The amounts insured were : — Carriages £40, buggies £40, saddlery £60, harness £60— making a total of £200.

To Mr DeLautour :— The proposal was * taken under bis management. Enquiry was made as to the value of the stock. The company insured up to two-thirds or threefourths of ' the value. At the time he was satisfied the goods were not over-insured. Sergt-Major Moore deposed he remembered the fire at Parnell's on the 2dth"of May last. From information received, relative to Mr Little's stables having been on fire, he visited tbe house of Mr Solomon, which is situated at the southern end of them. He took the . piece of board' produced itom. there, ah'd examined the three places at which the fire occurred,. This was the place where the first 1 fir^ was pointed out to •hirri',7 as having been found .by Foster. The second fire Was nine feet nearer Lowe . street. The board produced smelt strongly of kerosene, especially upon the charred Side". , He then examined the spot where the fire' had been. It was 15 feet from the southern end of the stable. One of the studs was much charred with fire, and there was a little hay scattered about which was saturated with kerosene. There is a loft at the top of the stable. Immediately over where the third was there was an opening used to put down hay. There was hay in the loft — several hundredweight. He then went to Little'B residence and made enquiries for Little, but was informed Little was ill in bed. Witness asked Mrs Little for kerosene.'" Mrs Little went into a small building at the rear of the dwelling, and brought out the kerosene tin now produced, which was half full of kerosene. Witness asked Mrs Little to keep it for him. About 12 o'clock he went to the stable, aud saw Mr Little, and with him examined where the three fires had been, Defendant acknowledged that the board smelt strongly of kerosene. Witness said it appeared strange defendant knew nothing .of the fire. Defendant asked if there were any suspicions about it. Witness replied, " What do you think seeing that the place, has been saturated with kerosene." Defendant replied that some of bis friends had been trying to do him a bad turn. Later in the afternoon, witness accompanied by Constable Law, went to defendant's house. Constable Law took a kerosene tin, when witness emptied the kerosene out of the tin produced and took possession of it. Defendant objected to the tin being taken away. Witness said he had left defendant a tin equally as good as the one he had taken away. Defendant said he would charge the tin to witness. He seemed to be under the influence of drink at the time. Witness enquired why the top of the tin was cut in such a manner, and how they managed to get the oil out of it. He said it had been cut with a tin opener. Witness remarked that it would be difficult to pour the kerosene out into a vessel. It was usual to make a small hole at the corner. Among the debris of the. first fire there was the butt end of a soda water bottle which Smelt slightly of. kerosene. It appeared to have been there some time. / To Mr DeLajitour : From stable to stable there was a line of loose boxes, which . were in a line with the harness room. For the ''•purpose of the present enquiry he had not looked through the stable from the opposite' side of Lowe street, though ihe had often done so on other occasions. It would be impossible on such a line of sight to Bee a man in the middle of the yard. He did not go inside defendant's house, aud did not know whether he used gas or not. He did not know for a fact that there] was no gas laid on to the house. The place where the kerosene was found would be the proper place to expect it to be kept. The hole in the tin bore evidence of the marks of a tin opener. To Mr Nolan : The place where the tin was found was not the place where it would usually be kept. .. On the Court resuming at 2 o'clock, William Good deposed that he remembered the fire at Parnell's on the 24th' May. His own building had a narrow escape. He remained on the premises until after seven o'clock. Came into hia shop about 4 o'clock in the morning. He remained about ten minutes, and then went away. This closed the case for the prosecution. Mr De Lautour contended that there were no. fresh facts adduced before the Court, and there was no necessity to send the case for trial. There was a caße of incendiarism against someone, but not against defendant. Of course, if the prosecution started with the assumption that the defendant did set fire to the premises, it would be ea3y to find out small facts which would tend to give proof of this. The very, kindest thing that could have been done would have been to burn tbe buildings down so far as . Redstone was concerned. He would then havo got a new building erected. No reasonable man would have attempted to destroy the stables by fire by starting it at the places where the fires occurred. Tliere had been no reasonable motive shown why the defendant should have burnt the stables down. There was no animus between Ileclstane and the defendant. Then as regard, the insurances, the goods in the building were fur more valuable than the amount for which they were insured. It was not suggested that' defendant was in pecuniary difficulties. The prosecution might perhaps think that the defendant was under the influence" of drink, and that he had. run amuck and .endeavored to burn down the buildings. There was only the evidence of Foster, who said that he saw defendant in the yard, which had proved to be an impossibility from the Sergt. -Major's own admission. • This was the only evidence that was embarrassing; arid he contended that unaided it was insufficient to commit upon. There had been no advance upon the case as it had been disclosed at- the enquiry. TheS;M. said/the case was of great importance in the "district where fires were of such frequent, occurrence. There was ample justification' for saying that there had teen a premeditated attempt to set the buildings on fire. He should commit the defendant to take his trial at the next I sittings of the Supreme Court.