A Oliat with Stanley.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XIX, Issue 6260, 6 January 1892, Page 4

A Oliat with Stanley.

A very interesting conversation with Mr H. M. Stanley is reported by an Auckland Herald interviewer : —

" What openings are there for colonisation on the Congo?" '- Young men who go to the Cony>, ambitious and fond of an adventurous life, will have a good held, but there is little opening at present for colonisation in the ordinary sense of the word. There is plenty of labour there, and what is really wanted is young men of sufficient skill and intelligence to utilise aud direct that labour. The railway which is being constructed from the Cataracts to Stanley Pool, on the Upper Congo, wiU enable 16,000 miles of navigation to be opened to the world. Steamers can sail along the banks of illimitable forests, but you might clear the ground and prepare it for cultivation, and when you come back in six months' time you would find it overgrown with saplings," the forest vegetation is so luxuriant. You am see in the forests the first and second growths, and then the primeval forest which has never been touched." " What are the natural resources of the countiy which might be developed by European energy and enterprise ? ; ' ' ' Companies could be formed for exploiting the rubber (caoutchouc). As we cut our way through the forests the juice of the rubber splashed out on us, ancl had to be removed quickly from our clothing or it | would have spoiled it. Then there is the ■ gum copal, something like your kauri gum. Mr friend, Captain Webb, formerly of Auckland, when stationed at Zanzibar, used to collect the copal by the pound, but in places I have been in Africa I saw it by the ton. There are also the native woods — 300,000 square miles, or three times the area of New Zealand, of unbroken forest. Among the woods are lignum vita?, mahogany, me,ny woods suitable for ornamental purposes, and timbers adapted for house building. On the Lower Congo there are 112 miles of navigable water, and the distance between the Cataracts and Stanley Pool is a little over 200 miles. Above the Pool there will be about 16,000 miles of navigation to land, every inch of which is suitable for agriculture and colonisation. The railway which is being made will, in connection with the river steamers, bring the heart of Africa into touch with civilisation." " How are trading operations at present carried on ?" ' ' They are carried on by companies, and to show their scale I may say that one station employs 80 clerks. After a year or two these clerks, embryo agents from the start, are promoted to better positions on other stations, they havmg in the meantime learned the language. They then trade with the natives, and barter European goods with them for native products. After five years they go Home to recuperate, and when they come back they get additional promotion according to their ability and energy, until they may, occasionally, reach the position of general manager at a salary of LSOOO a year. Generally they learn the language, which sounds something like Maori, in a year or so, or at all events enough of it to get on with the natives." " Is there much obstruction to colonisation by inter-tribal wars ''" "There have been a good many intertribal disputes and wars, but as colonisation goes on such disturbances decrease. In the Congo Free State two chiefs have been removed, that is all, and we have found very little difficulty in quelling disputes. The natives are born traders, and are ever keen for business. They therefore make no objection to the whites coming in ; they are fond of money, and anxious to acquire it. "' " What is the mode of government among the natives ? Is there any federation among the tribes or any central authority ?" ' ' In the eastern half of Africa the chiefs are chiefs of districts or villages only ; in the western half they are the kings of nations. There is no central authority, and the importance or authority of any chief is in accordance with his own ability and capacity to govern . In the Congo State they now acknowledge the authority of the King of Belgium, and they obey hi 3 behests. His name amongst them is " Bull-matari," or the "Rock-breaker," and that is also the name which they gave me. " "On what tenure is land held in the Congo Free State V "The land belongs to the Government, except what is occupied by the natives. The plains are open for cultivation, but, of course, if you wish to settle, you must get the goodwill of your neighbours, or fight. The landscape on the Lower Congo has very much the appearance of what I see from the window of this hotel — partly bush and partly plain. In the wet season the country is dark green and light green ; in the dry season it is withered and brown, and the nittives tlieii set fire to tlie grass to elcar tlie ground." " Is there any prospect of the ivory trade being further developed ?"' ' ' The ivory trade is diminishing through the rapid extinction of elephants and the influences of colonisation. When I wrote my book on the founding of the Congo Free State I mentioned then that ivory could not be relied upon as an article of commerce, that the supply was steadily diminishing, and that it was almost possible to name the period when the article would cease to be an element in African commerce. Amongst the resources of the country is the Rhea grass, a fibre valuable for commercial purposes ; a variety of dyes ; a number of grasses suitable for different purposes ; copal, rubber, tobacco, and useful and ornamental timbers. " "Is tobacco largely cultivated by the natives ?" "It is ; and there is a good trade done in it, "inland, by the natives themselves. I myself like the native better than the European article. The natives use a wooden pipe, which varies in style with almost every tribe ; and they also have double pipes, each of which will hold 21b of tobacco. Men and women are devoted to the weed, and how early the children begin to smoke I cannot tell. I have seen little naked tots of children rolling tobacco up with banana leaves, and smoking it up in that form." "Does not this inveterate smoking from early youth affect the physique of the people '!" " No. Among the tribes most addicted to smoking are the tallest men in Africa, some of them six feet six inches high. It never hurts them because they have so much open air exercise. That prevents any noxious eflect3. " "A good deal has been said in the newspapers about the drink traffic in the Congo state ?" " On the Upper Congo there is not much drinking done ; liquor is practically prohibited by the cost. A case of gin, that is twelve bottles, costs a sovereign to transport it from the Cataracts to Stanley Posi. It is used simply to give away, say to a chief on the conclusion of a bargain, and people are not anxious to pay so heavily for an article only to give it away. Endeavors have been made to stop the drink traffic on the Congo by means of a heavy tax, but they have been abandoned because the Portuguese on the other side let the liquor in free, and so get the trade. It would be necessary for France, Portugal, and the Congo Free State to take joint action to stop the traffic. On the Lower Congo drink is plentiful enough, and on the coast, but not on the Upper Congo. The natives have intoxicating drinks of their own, but they are of a mild character, and the stronger liquors of the Europeans arc naturally preferred. If France, Portugal, and the Congo Free State would tax drink 50 per cent, the trade would be stopped. On the Upper Congo gin is called " the good thing;" on the Lower Congo, "the thing that kills the worm. *' In Biitish East Africa the natives get some drink, but in the interior they are perfectly ignorant of it. I myself took very little drink. I started across Africa with twelve bottles of medicinal brandy. Seven of these bottles were used by European members of the expedition, one was broken, and the other four were buried in the ground, and there they now lie. Brandy was useful for medicinal purposes in cases of approaching fever to relieve chill." How are the missionaries getting on with their work out there ?" " They are doing very useful work indeed. They are making considerable progress both iv civilising the natives aud hi promoting n knowledge of Christianity amongst them."

In spite of all imitations Wolfe's Schnapps tands in the foremost rank of beverages.

Unscrupulous tradeis are endeavoring to substitute cheap liquor n place of Wolfe's Schnapps.