THE WEEK IN PARLIAMENT.

Otago Witness, Issue 3996, 14 October 1930, Page 20

THE WEEK IN PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. WELLINGTON, October 7. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. NURSES AND MIDWIVES’ REGISTRATION. Resuming the date on the Nurses and Midwives Registration Amendment Bill, Mr J. A. Hanan said the Bill would prove a great source of danger to the Medical School at Dunedin. It would open a door that might lead to a lower standard of-training. Mr Hanan denied that the medical men were unanimously in favour of the Bill, and said that the nurses were by no means convinced that the present reciprocal arrangement with Great Britain would be maintained. Sir James Allen resented any suggestion that in supporting the Bill lie was doing something that was not in the best interests of the nurses. The position of the nurses was amply safeguarded on the board. Sir R. Heaton Rhodes opposed the Bill on the ground that he did not think it was required. When in committee he proposed moving an amendment to ensure that the reciprocal arrangement was maintained. Mr V. H. Reed said.that the nurses had been very badly advised in opposing the Bill. They would have done better to get together in an effort to improve the Bill rather than set out to kill it. Mr J. B. Gow said that a great question of public policy was involved in the Bill. A great body of nurses would prefer to see things left as they were. Replying to the debate, Mr Masters eaid that the nurses took no exception to -the Bill so long as reciprocity 'was preserved. Mr A. S. Malcolm’s amendment—- * That the Bill should be committed six months hence,” was defeated by 18 votes to 12. The division list was as follows: — For the Amendment. Earnshaw Moore Fleming Rhodes Gow Scott Hanan Snodgrass Hawke Stewart Malcolm Thomson Against the Amendment. Allen M‘Gregor Buddo MTntyre Carrington Masters Clark Reed Fagan Smith Garland Stevenson Hall-Jones Trevithick Isitt Triggs Lang Witty When the Legislative Council resumed at 8 p.m. Mr Hannan moved an amendment with the object of providing that before the Bill became operative the board should make reasonable inquiries in regard to reciprocity. The amendment was defeated by 17 votes to 10. Mr Gow moved a further amendment with the object of making it mandatory on the board to revoke its approval of a private hospital as a training school if the number of beds in a hospital fell below a certain number. The amendment was defeated by 17 votes to 10.

The Bill was read a third time and passed. The Council rose at 11 p.m.

WELLINGTON, October 8. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. SUPERANNUATION FUNDS. Replying to Sir James Allen the Leader of the Council (Mr R. Masters) Baid it was intended to make a complete review of the superannuation funds. It was considered that the inquiry should stand over until the conclusion of the present session. BILLS PASSED. • The National Art Galftery and Museum Bill was passed with an amendment providing for the appointment of three members of the board for a period of seven years with the right of re-appoint-ment at the end., of the term. The Births and Deaths Registration Amendment Bill was put through committee, read a third time, and passed. The Council adjourned at 4 p.m. WELLINGTON, October 9. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. NURSES’ RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT. Replying to Mr R. M'Callum, the Leader of the Council (Mr R. Masters) stated that the number of Englishtrained nurses registered in New Zealand under the reciprocity agreement in / existence at present was 14 for the year ended September 30, 1929, and 15 for the year ended September 30, 1930. A BILL DEFEATED. Mr J. B. Gow moved the committal of the Local Elections and Polls Amendment Bill. Mr D. Buddo opposed the Bill, and •aid there should be a uniform system Of voting for the whole Dominion. An amendment moved by Sir Francis Bell that the BilLshGuld be committed that day one month was carried on a division by 16 votes to 15. The Council adjourned at 3.35 p.m.

WELLINGTON, October 10.

The Council met at 2.30 p.m

Mr M. Fagan asked whether the Government would consider the advisability of recommending to the Unemployment Soard the sending out of prospecting

parties to prospect for gold in Reefton and other mining districts. Replying, the Acting Leader of the Council (Mr R. Masters) said that the matter was under consideration by the Government.

UNIVERSITY AMENDMENT BILL.

The Council disagreed with the amendments made by the House in the New Zealand University Amendment Bill, and set up a committee to draw up reasons to submit to the House, The Council rose at 2.40 p.m.

WELLINGTON, October 11. The Council met at. 10 a.m. The Imprest Supply Bill, No. 4, was received from the House and put through all its stages and passed.

The Council adjourned until 2.30 p.m on Tuesday.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. WELLINGTON, October 6. The House met at 2.30 p.m. SMALL ARM AMMUNITION.

Mr T. W. M'Donald (Wairarapa) referred to a complaint of bad ammunition used at the Trentham rifle range last Saturday afternoon, and asked the Minister of Defence whether he was aware that in one lot of 150 rounds fired in a test there were no fewer than 30 burst cases. Would the Minister set up a board of practical and experienced rifle club men to make a test of the small arm ammunition now in stock?

The Minister of Defence (Mr J. G. Cobbe) said that the firing-proof of all ammunition over seven years of age was carried out in accordance with regulations for the examination of small arm cartridges. At that proof the ammunition in question passed the accuracy test laid down. The firing-proof of ammunition over seven years old was carried out at a range of 500 yards on a calm day by a marksman from a table rest. It was advisable to use up the oldest am munition first, and provided all clubs used the same date there should be no unfair advantage as between clubs. Unless the oldest ammunition was fired first the turnover was affected. The secretary of the National Rifle Association had been promised the latest ammunition for all the association meetings. Mr Cobbe also said it was not intended to set up a board as suggested, as the opinion was that the officers of the department were competent to ascertain what the condition of the ammunition was. “ THE ESTIMATES.

The House went into Committee of Supply on the Estimates, and discussion on the vote for the Post Office account was resumed.

Mr A. Harris (Waitemata) moved that the vote should be reduced by £B. He said his reason for doing so was to indicate that in the opinion of the House the whole circumstances surrounding the dismissal of L. C. Rains and other officers of the Auckland Telegraph Office should be the subject of inquiry by a royal commission. He was firmly of opinion that the case of Rains in par ticular called for the fullest investigation, and he added that in the other cases the Petitions Committee had expressed the unanimous opinion that the punishment of dismissal had been unduly severe. He thought it was necessary that an impartial tribunal should be set up with the object of ending what amounted to a grave scandal. On a division being taken this amendment was defeated by 29 votes to 22. Mr E. J. Howard (Christchurch South) asked whether the department was en abling its young men to conduct research into the possibilities of wireless transmission replacing wires in this country, particularly for service between the two islands.

The Postmaster-general (Mr J. B. Donald): That is going on all the time.

Mr Howard also asked the Minister when it was proposed to give effect to certain increases in departmental salaries which were to have been operative from April 1 last. The Postmaster-general: They cannot come into operation until these estimates are passed. Replying to a further remark by Mr Howard, the Minister said the increases would be retrospective to April 1 last. The Postmaster-general made a statement on the subject of radio broadcasting for the future. The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr H. E. Holland) expressed the opinion that the power of deciding whether newspapers going through the post should be confiscated on the ground that they contained libellous matter should be in the hands of a court rather than in those of postmasters. He said on a recent occasion, when members of the Labour Party had been scurrilously attacked and when the Samoans had been similarly treated, no move had been made by the department, but when the administration of the United Party had been attacked two issues of the Samoa Guardian had been confiscated.

The Postmaster-general agreed that it would be better for action to be taken in the courts rather than by a postmaster.

The vote was passed. The vote of £30,000 for the Mines Department was next considered.

The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr H. E. Holland) moved that the vote be reduced by £5. He said his reason for doing so was to indicate that railway orders for coal in the Waikato district should have been distributed among the various companies instead of being given to the Taupiri Company alone.

The Minister of Mines (Mr A. J. Murdoch) explained that the matter was in the hands of the Railways Department.

Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland Central) expressed the opinion that there should be more co-ordination among the departments. He hoped it was not too late for the Government to spread the orders over all the mines, and so tend to remove the threat of unemployment. Mr H. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East) urged that the fullest investigation should be made of the possibilities of coal carbonisation.

The Minister of Mines said that coal carbonisation was a question that had been given consideration. A company that had' been formed in the Waikato would, he —’~rstood, be able to produce its briquettes early in the new year, and it did not anticipate any difficulty in disposing of them. Replying to Mr Parry, the Minister said the department was responsible for the control of the State mines, but private companies had to arrange their own orders. He considered there would be more men working in the Waikato this summer than in the past. The Minister also said that the opening cf the Glcaafton collieries would employ 100 more men, and these would largely be drawn from other mines if work was scarce there.

Mr G. C. Munns (Roskill) urged the Government to be liberal in its expenditure on encouraging the prospecting for gold, and advocated a system of grants to prospecting companies, conditional on a certain amount of money being expended on work.

Mr J. O’Brien (Westland) said he trusted th'* coal industry in New Zealand would be so organised that the whole of the c untry’s requirements would be supplied from its own mines. The Minister of Mines said the Government was endeavouring to get New Zealand coal used wherever possible. Mr R. Semple: There is no need to import 11b weight. The Minister: That’s what we say, but its hard to get some municipalities to agree.

Replying to Mr Munns, the Minister said that the Government could not spend a great deal of money on assisting prospecting for gold, because it could not afford it, but he gave an assurance that an endeavour would be made to develop resources wherever possible. There were already commitments in the way of assistance amounting to £7OlB for the present year. The division was taken on the amendment moved by Mr H. E. Holland, and it was rejected by 28 votes to 24.

The division list was as follows:— The division list was as follows:— For the amendment (24). Ansell Langstone Armstrong Linklater Dickie M‘Keen Endean Macmillan Fletcher Martin Fraser Munro Hall Nash, W. Holland, H.E. O’Brien Howard Parry Jones Savage Jordan Semple Kyle Wright Against the amendment (28). Eroadfoot Makitanara Clinkard Munns Cobbe Murdoch de la Perrelle Ngata Donald Polson Field Rushworth Hamilton Smith Healy Stallworthy Hogan Stewart Holland, H. Sykes Lysnar Veitch M'Donald Ward M'Dougall Wilkinson Macpherson Young Mr O’Brien moved that the vote be reduced by £4, stating that he did so to indicate that all coal required in New Zealand should be procured within the Dominion. The Minister said the Railways Department was not ordering coal from abroad The Minister, of Railways (Mr W. A. Veitch) stated that none of the Government departments was purchasing coal from Australia, and he wished to disabuse the public min z on that point. The Railways Department was depending entirely on local supplies. Replying to Mr Semple, the Minister dated Giat mining inspectors had been instructed to take care that all regula tions relating to the safety of men were observed. If the regulations could be shown to be out of date the Government would welcome co-operation in improving them. At the request of Mr H. E. Holland, the Minister read to the House a letter which he had sent to the Mayor of Wanganui urging that New Zealand coal should be used, for the manufacture of gas at the local Works. Mr O’Brien’s amendment was defeated by 30 votes to 15. Mr W. P. Endean moved that the vote be reduced by £3 on the ground that the MacDonald Mine had not been disposed of to the best advantage. He sard it should have been offered at auction instead of being leased as it had been to one company, whereas another company had been prepared to make a better offer.

Mr Murdoch retraced the history of the MacDonald Mine transaction and expressed the opinion that it had been satisfactorily leased on a royalty of eightpence. There had been no slack negotiations. Mr Endean’s amendment was defeated on the voices, and the vote was passed. The Estimate of £315,905 for the State Coal Mines Account was' passed without discussion.

The vote of £390,000 for the Department of Agriculture was under consideration when the House rose at midnight. WELLINGTON, October 7. The House met at, 2.30 p.m. AN EMPOWERING BILL. The Local Bills 'Committee, reporting on the Western Access Empowering Bill which had been referred back to it for further consideration, stated it had taken additional evidence from which it had become apparent the opposition to the Bill was much more general than the committee had previously been aware of.

Mr C. H. Chapman (Wellington North), who oigginally introduced the Bill, said that while the decision of the committee would be regretted by many it would be applauded by an equal number. The effect of the adverse report on the Bill, which would probably result in its being dropped, would be that instead of reverently transferring 500 or 600 coffins from a cemetery an alternative route for access to the city would have to be taken which would involve the removal of half-a-dozen homes. WESTERN SAMOA.

The remainder of the afternoon session was taken up in debating the report on the administration of the mandated territory of Western Samoa. THE ESTIMATES.

Sir Apirana Ngata moved for urgency for the passage of the remaining classes of the Estimates. He said that the Government would not be unreasonable and seek to get all 16 remaining classes through, but it was desired to make fair progress. The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr H. E. Holland) called for a division on the motion, which was adopted by 43 votes to 19.

Consideration of the estimate of £390,000 for the Department of Agriculture was resumed. Mr A. Hamilton (Wallace) moved that the sum should be reduced by £5. He said he did so as a protest against the vote being £66,618 less than last year, whereas the estimates for a number of other departments had been increased. He contended that an industry of paramount importance such as agriculture should not be treated in this way.

Mr W. Lee Martin (Raglan) supported the remarks of Mr Hamilton, and added that dissatisfaction was widespread throughout the country concerning the services rendered by the department. He considered that the Minister would be justified in setting up a committee to inquire into the efficiency of the department.

Mr W. J. Polson (Stratford) also supported the amendment, stating. that the industry was more in need of assistance at the present time than ever before. Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland' Central) appealed for encouragement for the Angora rabbit industry. Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) said he could not join with the others in complaining of the reduced vote. The Reform Party had allowed its Minister to underspend to the extent of about £50,000, and now it was complaining because there was an effort to economise. He saw no room to complain so long as the essential services were adequately provided for. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr A. J. Murdoch) said it was not possible to vote money. for expenditure on agriculture when it was not available. He regretted that it had been necessary to keep the estimate down, but he hoped that the whole of the amount voted would be spent.

Replying to Mr Parry, the Minister said that the department was not unsympathetic towards the Angora rabbit industry. There was a certain amount of difficulty in some districts where there were rabbit boards, but he thought it would be found that permits had been granted in practically every case in which application had been made.

Mr Polson urged that the department should take a leaf in advancing the interests of the cheese industry. He stated that the whole future of this industry was in the melting pot at the present time.

Mr H. M. Rushworth (Bay of Islands) asked whether .the Minister could lift the veil enshrouding the Supplementary Estimates. Was provision to be made for some of the items that were not fully provided for in main Estimates? If this were not so he suggested that the Minister himself might vote for the amendment. Such action would have tremendous effect on the Cabinet.—(Laughter.) Mr Hamilton’s amendment was carried by 36 votes to 27, and the vote was reduced to £389,995. The division list was as follows:— . For the Amendment (36). Ansell Linklater Barnard M’Keen Bitchener Macmillan Burnett Martin Chapman Mason Dickie Nash, J. A. Endean Nash, W. Field Parry Fletcher Polson Hall Rushworth. Hamilton Savage Henare Stewart Holland, H. E. Sykes Howard Waite Jones Wilkinson Jordan Williams Kyle Wright Langstone Young Against the Amendment (27). Armstrong Macpherson Black Makitanara Broadfoot Munns Clinkard Munro Cobbe Murdoch de la Perrelle Ngata Donald O’Brien Hawke Smith Healy Stallworthy Hogan Sullivan Lysnar Taverner • M'Combs Veitch M'Donald Ward M'Dougall

Mr H. S. S. Kyle (Riccarton) submitted that in view of the quarantine regulations at Home and here it should now be possible to open our ports to stock. The animals would be under supervision for at least three months, and he did not think any trace of foot-and-mouth disease would pass undetected. The embargo had been lifted in Australia, and he could not see why it should not be lifted in New Zealand. It might in that event be advisable to make the regulations a trifle more stringent. There was need for new blood in New Zealand stock. Mr D. Jones (Mid-Canterbury) said ho hoped the Minister and the Governt. nt would take into serious consideration the result of the division on Mr Hamilton’s amendment. It was urgent at the present time that the farmers’ position should be revealed. The industry should be given every chance of assistance possible, and he hoped the vote would be increased.

Mr Murdoch: Where are you going to get the money from? Mr Jones: If I were there I would get it.

Continuing, Mr Jones saif there was a number of other departments in which the pruning knife could be applied with less disastrous results than in agriculture.

The amended estimate for the Department of Agriculture was passed at midnight. The sum of £525 for the Nauru and Ocean Islands account was granted without discussion.

When the vote of £llO,OOO for tho Customs Department was under consideration, Mr W. D. Stewart (Dunedin West) raised the question of duty on band uniforms, and cited the ease of Highland dress, which he submitted should be admitted free.

Mr Cobbe said the policy of the department was that New Zealand goods should in every case be protected, and there was no reason why uniforms should not be manufactured locally. The Customs estimate was passed. The vote of £17,108 for the Department of External Affairs was passed without discussion, and the estimates of £172,000 for the Department of Lands and Survey, £40,000 for discharged soldiers’ settlement account, £14,900 for the Lands for Settlement Account, and £2500 for the Scenery Preservation were rapidly disposed of. The vote of £55,000 for the Valuation Department was then passed, and also the votes of £393,509 for the State Forests Account and £SBOO for the Crown Law Office. The House rose at 1.14 a.m. WELLINGTON, October 8. The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. THE WHEAT -USTRY. Replying to Mr T. i>. Burnett (Temuka) the Minister of Agriculture (Mr A. J. Murdoch) said he regretted that he was unable at present to announce the Government’s policy concerning the wheat industry. Mr Burnett had asked whether the Government proposed to give encouragement to the industry. SAFETY OF MINES. The Goldfields and Mines Committee, reporting on the Coal Mines Amendment Bill, recommended the Government to provide by regulation or otherwise that every working place where rock drills were used should, if an inspector so directed, be furnished with an adequate blast or other suitable appliance for laying the dust. The Goldfields and Mines Committee in a further report on the same Bill recommended that, in view of the assurance given by the Minister of Mines to the member in charge of the Bill that the subject matter of two other clauses would be discussed by him with the miners’ representatives on the occasion of his forthcoming visit to the west coast of the South Island, the Bill should not be allowed to proceed. THE ESTIMATES. When the House resumed in the evening it went into Committee of Supply to deal with the remaining classes of the estimates. Sums of £64,500 for the Land and Income Tax Department and £97,000 for the Stamp Duties Department were granted. The estimate of £7480 for the Public Service Commissioner’s office was passed and the vote of £297,012 for the Public Trustee’s Account was then considered. Mr R. M‘Keen (Wellington South) expressed appreciation of the work of the Public Trust Office generally, but criticised the administration with respect to houses rented to people who were temporarily in straitened circumstances. He claimed that there had been instances in which tenants had been treated with less consideration than they would have received at the hands of many private landlords. A number of members expressed appreciation of the work of the Public Trust Office. Mr Ransom stated that during the term he had been in charge of the department he had not received a‘ single complaint concerning the conduct of the office. The public appeared to be well satisfied with the manner in which the work was being carried. The Public Trust vote was passed. Mr A. E. Ansell (Chalmers) moved that the vote of £6357 for the Transport Department be reduced £5 as an indication that transport legislation should have been introduced. He claimed that transport in New Zealand should be placed on a more economic basis. He asked what the Transport Department had done to justify its existence. The Minister of Transport (Mr W. B. Taverner) replied that the importance of transport legislation was fully realised.

After the Bill of last session it was considered that the question needed thorough investigation, and an investigation had been made. There was need for co-ordination, but all the information necessary for the new department to avoid hasty legislation was essential. A report on transport would be presented to the House before the end of the session. The vote had been increased this year because it had been ncessary to build up a staff and organisation. Mr C. H. Clinkard (Rotorua) expressed surprise at the action of Mr Ansell, stating that it had largely been due to the latter’s opposition that a number of the provisions of the Transport Bill of last session had had to be dropped. Mr D. Jones (Mid-Canterbury) said it ■was a great pity that the Railway and Transport Departments had ever been separated. Both were handling the same problem. Continuing, he said the Budget had stated that transport legislation would be submitted this session. The Government was not facing its responsibilities.

Mr J. S. Fletcher (Grey Lynn) asked ■what was being done by the Department and what had been done in return for the money voted. Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) stated that good work had already been don? by the Department in the way of coordinating services, but there was'sfill much to be done.

Mr Jcnes said that it was a great pity that the Railway and Transport Departments had ever been separated. Roth were handling the same problem. The Budget had stated that transport legislation would be submitted this session, and he Government was not facing its responsibilities. Mr J. S. Fletcher (Grey Lynn) asked what was being done by the department and what had been done in return for the money voted. Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) state! that good work had already been done by the department in the way of coordinating services. There was still muen to be done.

The vote for the Transport Department was still under discussion when the House rose at midnight.

WELLINGTON, October 9. The House met at 2.30 p.m, NEW LIGHTHOUSE STEAMER.

Mr W. E. Barnard (Napier), asked whether the new Government lighthouse steamer Matai would carry passengers when making trips round the coast as the Tutanekai and Hinemoa had done. , Mr A. J. Stallworthy replied that the only passenger accommodation on the Matai was for the Governor-General and his staff. It would not be desirable to carry passengers, as this would hamper the vessel’s work as a lighthouse tender. RADIO BROADCASTING. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr J. G. Coates) asked the Postmaster-General (Mr J. B. Donald) whether in view of the policy in connection with the radio broadcasting services which he had enunciated he would give the House an assurance that no committments would be made before Parliament had been furnished with a statement estimating the capital cost and annual charges which such policy would involve. Mr Donald said he was pleased to give the Leader of the Opposition that assurance. PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT. Urgency was accorded the discussion of the Public Works Statement and the passing of the Public Works Estimates. Mr Coates said the first point in the Public Works Statement to which he desired to draw the Minister’s attention was the extraordinary expenditure on the construction of railway lines. It had been estimated in a recent paper submitted to the House that the new lines would involve an annual loss of approximately £750,000, and it was probable that these estimates had been based on a flying survey. He doubted whether in a number of cases they had been based on an engineering survey. He was afraid when the lines at present under construction were completed that they would amount to nothing more than a liability. This problem of railway construction costs demanded the earnest attention of every member of Parliament. It was wrong for the country to proceed with construction work at the pace being set at present, and even if it necessitated adjourning Parliament for a month or six weeks, he was strongly of opinion that the House should be given an opportunity of thor oughly examining the position. Mr Coates asked' the Minister if he would state whether the policy of paying standard rafes of pay on relief works was not having the effect of attracting people from other industries. He had no criticism to offer for the payment of standard rates on recognised public works, but for single men at any rate he questioned the wisdom of granting the same pay on relief works. In conclusion, the Leader of the Opposition said it was in the interests of the country that until it was known whether as a result of the co-ordinaion of the transport services the railways would not prove such a costly concern as at present indicated, the Government should retard the rate of expenditure, at least until such time as the report-had been received from the Select Committee appointed to consider the lines under construction. Furthermore, he believed that a review of these projects was a matter for a committee of experts rather than for a Select Committee.

Mr J. S. Fletcher (Grey Lynn) com plained that necessary examinations had not been made before some of the hydro electrie power schemes in this country

had been initiated. It was a striking commentary on the position when nearly every project had now to be reviewed by experts. This should not have been necessary had our own engineers made competent preliminary investigations. Drawing attention to certain estimates that had been or would be exceeded, Mr Fletcher insisted that it was important that the Dominion should have engineers who would be able to provide reliable estimates and carry out the work within reasonable reach of such estimates.

The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr H. E. Holland) criticised the action of the Government in reducing the proposed expenditure on the Westpost-Inangahua railway line this year. He said that owing to peculiar circumstances, including delays in construction, there was already a certain amount of “ dead ” capi- • tai on which interest would have to be paid in connection with this project. However, he was confident that the Westport-Inangahua line would be a paying one, because it was essentially a coal line and there was not a non-paying coal line in New Zealand. He considered that a larger number of men should be employed on completing the formation and general construction work on this line so that it could soon become a paying concern. Mr Holland said he hoped the Government would not weaken under the ill-considered attacks on the railway lines under construction. The Government should fulfil its policy of joining up the main trunk lines, and he hoped the fact that a Select Committee had been appointed in this connection did not indicate that any departure was contemplated. He did not see how it would bp possible for the committee to complete its report during the session, and he believed that its personnel should be enlarged, and that it should continue to sit during the recess. He had no doubt as to its competence to conduct the investigation. Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) said the only conclusion he could draw from the speech of the Leader of the Opposition was that he was trying to make party capital out of railway construction. Mr Lysnar asserted that when the GisborneNapier line was completed it would tap 5,000,000 acres of good land, and he hoped the Government would push it on. Mr H. G. R. Mason (Auckland Suburbs) deprecated personal criticism of the head of .the Public Works Department. If the departmental head was doing the work of 10 men instead of one it was the responsibility of the Minister, who should stand the criticism. If one man was expected to do everything there was bound to be trouble.

Mr D. Jones (Mid-Canterbury) said that he hoped the Government would look on the question of railway construction from the point of view of the interests of the Dominion, and not party interest. It should take into full consideration the costs of construction and the danger of losses, and it should hesitate before placing any additional burden on the farming community. Mr H. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East) said that if the policy of making the people who used the railways pay for them were introduced there would be disastrous results to the Dominion. He contended that the estimates for the present year’s expenditure amounted to approximately half of what had been indicated when the Government assumed office, and it would consequently take eight years instead of four to complete the programme on which it had been elected.

Mr K. S. Williams (Bay of Islands) said the Government would be wise to give careful consideration before expend ing large sums of public money. Difficulties had always to be faced, and circumstances were continually changing. Mr C. A. Wilkinson (Egmont) claimed that the public had been misled in connection with the hydro-electric schemes. There had been nothing l?ut a series of disasters from beginning to end, and it had eventually been necessary to call on outside experts to conduct investigations. He suggested that in the case of the railways the Government should have a similar investigation beforehand. It would be the height of folly to go on with building railway lines that might result in nothing but disastrous losses to the country.

Mr R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) said it was a pity that Mr Fletcher had not waited till Professor Hornell’s report was received before proceeding to criticise our own engineers. The report might completely vindicate the engineers, and he believed it might be shown that Arapuni would still prove a successful concern.

Mr E. J. Howard (Christchurch South) expressed the opinion that the railways would last a long time yet. The trouble with the transport position was that other services were permitted to select the best tasks and leave the rest to the railways. Mr G. C. Munns (Roskill) defended the policy of completing "main trunk lines and closing down non-paying branch lines. He said that when it had been proposed to close some Jines the residents in the districts affected had found it possible to make them pay. He claimed that it was manifestly unfair to expect the railways to carry fertiliser free, while the farmers transported the rest of their goods by motor lorry. Mr .1. M'Combs (Lyttelton) gave details of the amount of capital invested in hydro-electric schemes in New Zealand, and stated that the coal plants in Britain provided cheaper power than that available in the Dominion. Continuing the debate in the evening, Mr T. W. M'Donald (Wairarapa) recommended the Government to spend relief

work money in draining land occupied by soldier settlers and others. This, he stated, would be more productive than the present relief works. A start should be made with those soldier settlements in which the State already had an interest, after which attention could be directed t<r Crown lands and possibly eventually to private lands. Mr W. Downie Stewart (Dunedin West) said, the Public Works Statement, together with the Budget, indicated that the Government was being irresistibly forced to accept the view that the programme of public works expenditure must be reviewed. What should be emphasised was that the problem was an urgent one. It was too urgent to await the report of the Select Committee on railways under construction, and it was also too urgent to delay givin" serious consideration to the recommem dations of the Royal Commission on operating railways. A factor that was causing the greatest concern was the rapid growth of loan expenditure in the Public Works Department. This was a serious matter unless it was to be productive of satisfactory results. Mr Barnard said that the increase in the cost of the railway construction work last year had been largely due to the necessity for finding work for the unemployed. The problem of finding reproductive work for the unemployed was becoming increasingly difficult. He thought a great deal could be done in the direction of land development schemes.

Mr W. J. Polson (Stratford) deprecated expenditure on railwav lines before a complete investigation had been made, and took Mr Lysnar to task for what he considered to be a selfish advocacy of the Napier-Gisborne line. The debate w-as continued by a number of members.

Mr Ansell supported the view that in the face of possible heavy losses expenditure on railway construction should not be undertaken without a careful investigation. He submitted that the developmental value of railways was now somewhat discounted by the success of motor traction.

Taverner, replying to the debate, said that the proposals dealing with the co-ordination of transport would be given publicity during the recess and a Bill would be brought down next session. Referring to the railway construction policy, he said that any violent change would throw a large number of men out of work. The dropping of branch lines under construction would in some instances mean the throwing of sums of money overboard, whereas only a comparatively small amount w'as required to complete them. He hoped by the co-ordination of his own department with others to encourage developmental schemes, though the policy concerning them was not one for his own department. He believed that the real solution of the unemployment difficulty would be the promotion of rural development. , The House went into Committee of Supply to deal with the Public Works Estimates. Members discussed various points on the lines indicated during the debate on the Statement. The Estimates were passed, and the House rose at 3 15 am till 10.30 a.m. WELLINGTON, October 10. The House met at 10.30 this morning. BETTERMENT BILL. The Local Bills Committee, reporting on the Wellington City Betterment BilL recommended that the Bill be not 'allowed to proceed, but expressed the opinion that the principle of betterment should be applied to the Dominion as a whole by means of a Betterment Bill. Mr R. M‘Keen (Wellington South) said the activities of municipalities in regard to town planning were considerably restricted owing to their inability to charge property owners with a share of the cost of improving city streets. Some Wellington properties had increased' enormously in value as the result of street widening. A long discussion on the report of the committee ensued.

Mr W. J. Jordan (Manukau) moved that the report should be referred back to the committee for further consideration. He said the Bill had been introduced at the request of the Wellington City Council, to which it was °a matter of importance, and it was at least entitled to a second readin" debate. ° Air Al. J. Savage (Auckland West) seconded the amendment. The amendment was lost on the voices, and the report was laid on the table. WASHING-UP BILL. Moving for the committal of the Native Land Amendment and Native Land Claims Adjustment (Washing-up) Bill, Sir Apirana Ngata said the settlement of titles to Native lands w'as being carried out by stages. In some areas the titles had already been adjusted and were on a basis that would be appreciated by Europeans. The policy which ha.d been conducted MT the previous Administration and which was being continued by the present Government consisted of consolidation schemes within the tribal boundaries rather than in county districts. The object of consolidation of titles was to enable the Maori to deal with his land or farm it as he might be. disposed. Another activity of the Native Department Kas the disposal of lands which could not be of any use to Maoris. Such lands had in some instances been sold to forestry companies when it was apparent they were not wanted by the Crown. He instanced a case in the Taupo district of a block

valued at 4s 6d per acre being sold to a certain afforestation company at 30s per acre. He did not think that conflicted with any policy that had been laid down by the House, and it was profitable to the Maoris.

A member: What about the shareholders in a company? Sir Apirana Ngata: They can look after themselves.

Mr Tau Hcnare said the present Native Minister was a man who understood the requirements of the Maoris, and he as sured the House that any assistance granted to the Natives through the Minister would be used in a manner that would enable them to play the part m the country’s development that was expected of them. It was important hat the Maoris should be assisted now lest the calamity of becoming landless should befall them.

Mr T. Maki tanara referred to the early history of Native lands, and said that the Natives had lived on promises, but legislation was now going to be enacted and he wished to congratulate the Native Minister on that. He referred to the Native reserves in the South Island, and said that the Bill would assist the Natives interested in them.

The debate was continued by a number of members who referred to matters of local interest.

The Leader, of the Opposition (Mr J. G. Coates) said it seemed to him that the cost of developing Native lands might be more than the Maoris could meet. Some of them were concerned about the possibility that they would not be able to meet repayments. He asked the Minister not to force payment in such cases, but to allow the Maoris to accept the responsibility as far as they could meet it. The Native should accept his responsibility provided he had a fighting chance, but, failing that, patience should be exercised towards him. He asked the Minister whether he would appoint a commission to consider Native grievances. The Minister deserved commendation for the work he was doing. Sir Apirana Ngata, in reply, agreed that it was important to keep a close watch on expenditure and avoid imposing too heavy a financial burden on the Natives. He would recommend to Cabinet that a commission should be appointed as Mr Coates had suggested. The motion was adopted. _ IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

The Imprest Supply Bill (No. 4) was introduced by Governor-General’s message, and was accorded urgency. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr J. G. Coates) said he wished to draw attention to the extremely difficult position of the primary producers to-day owing to the serious decline in-the prices of their produce, whereas there had been no reduction whatever in their costs. He had no intention of making any attack on Labour, but the country must be prepared to face the position. Only recently a representative deputation had approached the Government on the subject of wages and salaries, and this had immediately been followed by declarations that reductions would not be accepted. It was not possible to maintain an artificial standard, and when the primary producers were faced with an enormous loss of income the country was entitled to an expression of opinion from the Government. Could it offer any solution of the difficulty. Personally he was prepared to offer a suggestion. He believed the time had arrived when the commercial and banking community, the workers, the industrialists, the producers, and others should meet and endeavour to come to some understanding. Mr Al. J. Savage (Auckland West) said that everyone realised, how serious was the position of the farmer, who, however, was not in the boat by himself. There were 6000 unemployed on the books of the labour bureaux throughout the Dominion, and some of these were facing not only losses but also starvation. Some of them were faced with the loss of their homes, in which their life savings had been invested. The picture of the future, however, was not so black as the Leader of the Opposition had painted. He agreed that the country should face the facts, but in doing so it would have to consider the reorganisation of the country’s earning power. It should not be beyond our ability to employ labour, of which we had plenty, on the vast natural resources of the Dominion. If such reorganisation were carried out there should be no further depression. Mr Savage asked how long it was going to be before the Unemployment Act was brought into effect. He would like to know whether steps were being taken to put the measure into operation immediately.. The Minister of Labour (Mr S. G. Smith) : Yes, immediately. Continuing, Mr Savage said he would like an assurance that there would be no dismissals in the Post and Telegraph and also in the Railway Department unless other work were found for the men. Air Savage defended the view that there should be no reduction in wages. A reduction would not help the situation at all. It would decrease the purchasing power and weaken the market generally. If, however, the purchasing power of the lower-paid classes were increased we would be increasing the effective purchasing power of the country as a whole. In his opinion it ■was more important to direct attention to reducing the interest rates. Air Veitch said it seemed, to him that there was a tendency to draw attention to all that had not been done and to ignore all that had been done in the

way of meeting the present difficult situation. The Leader of the Opposition had suggested a conference of all.interests, and if it became apparent that such a conference would produce the requisite results he felt confident the House , would approve of such a course. Referring to the achievements of the present, session in the way of meeting economic problems, the Alinister said that additional finance had been provided for encouraging the settlement of land. Another quarter in which assistance would eventually be given to producers was the railway service. By economies which it was hoped to effect it should be possible to reduce costs in the way of freights. The department had already been reorganised so that the point would soon be reached from which it would be possible to approach the question of granting relief to producers and the public generally. Outlining other directions from which difficulties had been approached, the Minister said the State Advances and Rural Credits schemes had been pushed on, while the Unemployment Act had been passed bv Parliament. Continuing, Mr Veitch said he was firmly of the opinion that a solution of the economic problem would not be reached along the lines of reducing the standard of living of the average n Cr - , believed g°°d results would follow the development of intercmpire trade, and it was also important that the public should realise the benefits that could be obtained from a vigorous policy of purchasing New Zealand

Replying to Mr Savage, Mr Veitch said he could inform him reliably that no general dismissals in the Post and Telegraph Department were contemplated. There would be no change at all in policy. He agreed that the reorganisation of industry would improve conditions, and he hoped that the Unemployment Board would be able to assist in this respect. In conclusion, Air Veitch stated that while the difficulties the present day were serious the outlook for the future was not altogether black, and the Government would carry out its duties in the full realisation of its responsibilities.

Mr R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) said it had to be realised that the Dominion had to face large interest costs, and this could only be done by finding overseas markets for our surplus products.

There was a departure from the general run of the discussion when Mr C. A. Wilkinson (Egmont) criticised the retention of the present scale of wheat duties. He said he was not opposed to reasonable protection for the wheat industry, but the present duties created an unduly heavy charge on the con* sumers of bread.

Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) renewed his attack on the constitution of the Aleat Board, and urged that the interests of the producers should be protected against the operations of trusts and combines. After a lengthy and tedious debate, the Bill was passed at 4.20 a.m., and the House adjourned.